Not Coach Jimbo said:

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B-1 83 said:

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damiond said:

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In North Texas, Fort Worth ISD approved a budget last month with a $45 million deficit, with raises accounting for more than half of that amount. Frisco ISD also approved a $24 million deficit to pay for modest staff raises.
In Central Texas, Austin ISD approved a budget with a $52 million deficit to give employees a 7% raise. San Antonio ISD is giving its teachers raises between 3% and 9%, and it's paying for them by slashing administrative jobs. In the much smaller Smithville ISD, about 45 miles east of Austin, board members approved a 4% raise that will leave the district with a deficit of more than half a million.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/10/texas-schools-teacher-raises/
they already make good money for only working nine months

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You should have stopped before the ignorant troll line.

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Its not a troll line, some of the districts listed pay really well... Texas is actually pretty decent on teacher pay compared to some states.

Not many jobs get paid ~50k for starting right of college for working 9 months a year + all the benefits teaches have.

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Offshore oil workers and firefighters only work "6 months" a year by your logic.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aggie93 said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I'm all for merit pay for teachers and especially for trimming the fat. Unfortunately teachers don't want that. They want security and security comes at a cost in terms of incentives.

BTW, why is it that the schools who spend the least per student often have some of the best results and those who spend the most almost always have the worst? My son's school is easily a Top 20 Large Public HS in Texas and cranks out kids that crush it in college, has a robust trade program including Welding and Cosmotology, and has an exceptional sports and Robotics program yet we spend less than $7k per student, well below the State average.

The answer of course is parental involvement which no amount of money will fix.

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This teacher wants merit pay. Just explain how one does it well.

We're about to see a serious teacher shortage. Very few young people are flocking to the profession and lots of young ones are getting out.

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Uh, it's here. That's a big part of the reason you're seeing these districts run deficits for raises. They have to do something to attract teachers because the market is tight. But if they pay incoming teachers more than they pay the teachers they already have, then they'll lose teachers and have even more positions to fill.

A lot of urban districts are also easing the requirements needed to become a teacher. If you have a degree, you're in. They'll work to get you certified while you get OJT. I've also heard of districts that don't require college degrees, but I haven't seen that for certain.

A lot of it is pay related but not all of it. We have experienced teachers come to our school every year which underpays compared to schools around it by 15-20%.

The teachers say that while they would obviously like to have the pay rate, they enjoy the chance to teach in a place that doesn't have constant threat of violence and has actual parent involvement. They also enjoy having an administration that will support and protect them in the face of increased demands for troublemakers to be coddled.

I've been responsible for hiring the past 8 years at the schools I work with and job fairs are a waste of time. Very few qualified candidates and half of those that are are questionable. It's scary.

I don't blame young folks for avoiding or getting out. My wife and I tell my daughter that she should avoid teaching. The requirements for teaching are absurd now. If all I had to worry about was instruction, it would be great. That's not the job anymore.

Yesterday said:

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Starting teachers get paid well, good long term teachers do not. The problem is that it's now a glorified babysitting position that is micromanaged with standardized tests. You no longer need long term outstanding teachers and there are plenty of young new graduates ready to take their place.

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Not true.

Houston ISD is reportedly laying off over 600 administrators, and there are 20 something schools where teacher pay is being increased to $85k annually with the possibility of a $10k bonus. And other schools can opt in to the same program and be eligible for the same teacher pay. Not sure what all the "program" entails, but I think it has to do with subjecting the school to accountability metrics.

Sims said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I rarely get bonuses from 3rd parties at my current job.

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At my place of employment, we usually call that a kickback!

Aggie Jurist said:

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Quote:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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Good lord. I have been given leadership awards in my career - and they have been plaques.

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Yeah...that's an apples to apples comparison.

Yesterday said:

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Starting teachers get paid well, good long term teachers do not. The problem is that it's now a glorified babysitting position that is micromanaged with standardized tests. You no longer need long term outstanding teachers and there are plenty of young new graduates ready to take their place.

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I think our district does well for starting teachers and 15+ teachers, but we lag in the middle. Something about how they offered raises.

The lack of experienced teachers is causing more districts to use scripted curriculum, which can help new teachers out of the chute. But it doesn't help, and can hurt, experienced teachers who really know their craft.

Rocky Rider said:

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I thought Texas would be seeing a property tax windfall?

Has the tax revenue tied to higher property values not hit the books yet? ...or are the deficits the result of spending beyond the windfall of revenue.

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I think that the budget increases were tied to the voucher legislation, and the state house wouldn't pass it. A lot of districts were counting on that to pay for teacher pay increases. A lot of them are choosing to essentially dip into their savings or lay off administrators to give a pay increase anyway.

Sims said:

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A lot of it is pay related but not all of it. We have experienced teachers come to our school every year which underpays compared to schools around it by 15-20%.

The teachers say that while they would obviously like to have the pay rate, they enjoy the chance to teach in a place that doesn't have constant threat of violence and has actual parent involvement. They also enjoy having an administration that will support and protect them in the face of increased demands for troublemakers to be coddled.

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Bingo. My wife is looking at taking retirement next year because of those bolded factors. She used to enjoy teaching. After 30 years, she's fed up with the lack of administration support and parents that automatically blame the teacher instead of taking a hard look at their snowflake.

Bob Lee said:

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Houston ISD is reportedly laying off over 600 administrators, and there are 20 something schools where teacher pay is being increased to $85k annually with the possibility of a $10k bonus. And other schools can opt in to the same program and be eligible for the same teacher pay. Not sure what all the "program" entails, but I think it has to do with subjecting the school to accountability metrics.

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95k for a teacher? Thats insane. Thats engineering new hire rates.

Shows you just how out of whack the marketplace is.

damiond said:

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In North Texas, Fort Worth ISD approved a budget last month with a $45 million deficit, with raises accounting for more than half of that amount. Frisco ISD also approved a $24 million deficit to pay for modest staff raises.
In Central Texas, Austin ISD approved a budget with a $52 million deficit to give employees a 7% raise. San Antonio ISD is giving its teachers raises between 3% and 9%, and it's paying for them by slashing administrative jobs. In the much smaller Smithville ISD, about 45 miles east of Austin, board members approved a 4% raise that will leave the district with a deficit of more than half a million.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/10/texas-schools-teacher-raises/
they already make good money for only working nine months

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Yep


From 2021 FWISD bond election:

Quote:

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Proposition C
Proposition C would provide $105 million to build three 5,000-seat sport stadium complexes, including turf and concession facilities.
Proposition D
This bond allocates $76.2 million to enhance and renovate district athletic facilities. This includes the replacement of turf at 14 high school football practice fields and at 14 high school baseball/softball fields.

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Looks like removing athletics from school would cover that deficit.

Yesterday said:

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Starting teachers get paid well, good long term teachers do not. The problem is that it's now a glorified babysitting position that is micromanaged with standardized tests. You no longer need long term outstanding teachers and there are plenty of young new graduates ready to take their place.

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I just wrapped up my 20th year with a district in central Florida. The only difference in pay between me and a brand new teacher is the $4400 additional pay I get for having an Ed.D.

I make more money as a real estate agent on the side. But I love my job, so I keep teaching.

Holy s***! Glad we moved out of Smithville 8 years ago!

TxTarpon said:

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damiond said:

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In North Texas, Fort Worth ISD approved a budget last month with a $45 million deficit, with raises accounting for more than half of that amount. Frisco ISD also approved a $24 million deficit to pay for modest staff raises.
In Central Texas, Austin ISD approved a budget with a $52 million deficit to give employees a 7% raise. San Antonio ISD is giving its teachers raises between 3% and 9%, and it's paying for them by slashing administrative jobs. In the much smaller Smithville ISD, about 45 miles east of Austin, board members approved a 4% raise that will leave the district with a deficit of more than half a million.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/10/texas-schools-teacher-raises/
they already make good money for only working nine months

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Yep


From 2021 FWISD bond election:

Quote:

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Proposition C
Proposition C would provide $105 million to build three 5,000-seat sport stadium complexes, including turf and concession facilities.
Proposition D
This bond allocates $76.2 million to enhance and renovate district athletic facilities. This includes the replacement of turf at 14 high school football practice fields and at 14 high school baseball/softball fields.

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Looks like removing athletics from school would cover that deficit.

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I don't disagree, but athletics helps keep kids who might otherwise drop out.

No Spin Ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I'm all for merit pay for teachers and especially for trimming the fat. Unfortunately teachers don't want that. They want security and security comes at a cost in terms of incentives.

BTW, why is it that the schools who spend the least per student often have some of the best results and those who spend the most almost always have the worst? My son's school is easily a Top 20 Large Public HS in Texas and cranks out kids that crush it in college, has a robust trade program including Welding and Cosmotology, and has an exceptional sports and Robotics program yet we spend less than $7k per student, well below the State average.

The answer of course is parental involvement which no amount of money will fix.

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How many of those schools that spend the least have a solid middle to upper middle class demographics and aren't getting as much government money?

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Most of them. Parent involvement and generally well behaved kids make education inexpensive. We also have lots of teachers that leave industry to work because the kids are actually engaged.

All reforms that aren't focused on creating an environment of accountability for kids and encouraging parental engagement are ignoring the real issues.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aggie93 said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I'm all for merit pay for teachers and especially for trimming the fat. Unfortunately teachers don't want that. They want security and security comes at a cost in terms of incentives.

BTW, why is it that the schools who spend the least per student often have some of the best results and those who spend the most almost always have the worst? My son's school is easily a Top 20 Large Public HS in Texas and cranks out kids that crush it in college, has a robust trade program including Welding and Cosmotology, and has an exceptional sports and Robotics program yet we spend less than $7k per student, well below the State average.

The answer of course is parental involvement which no amount of money will fix.

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This teacher wants merit pay. Just explain how one does it well.

We're about to see a serious teacher shortage. Very few young people are flocking to the profession and lots of young ones are getting out.

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To do it well you have to have a good measuring system and you have to cull the bottom 20 percent regularly. Essentially run it like a business where you create a culture of incentives and achievement.

You are a small minority within teaching in wanting that and it won't work unless teachers want it.

In the meantime the real solution is empowering teachers to have more control of behavior in their classrooms and more recognition for achievement. People who go into teaching don't do it to get rich and the massive mindset change to alter that mindset isn't realistic.

We should be encouraging more people from regular backgrounds to teach. The best math and science teachers my kids have had are former engineers who wanted a less stressful job with more flexibility and were fine with making less money to have it.

As to the teacher shortage issue I could get behind a program that is tied to forgiveness of a portion of student loan debt for a commitment to teach, especially for needed areas. Say $10k of debt per year of teaching.

Sims said:

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Burdizzo said:

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Sims said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I rarely get bonuses from 3rd parties at my current job.

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In our district the bonuses come from the non-profit foundation that supports the district. Our district has a strong non-profit foundation, in part, because of all the tax money we collect and then send to the state through recapture.

Just because a third party is funding the bonuses doesn't mean the district is poorly run.

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Not sure I said it was? I personally and through an LLC contribute to Christmas and annual bonuses for the teachers at my kids' school. I didn't say it was wrong. The implication was it should be welcome that a 3rd party would care enough to contribute. Aim the ire all you want at the school district for not giving teachers bonuses - but don't sit there and demean the significance of prize money from a 3rd party, that's a ridiculous stance.

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I am not upset that third party funds the bonus, just explaining the circumstances that enable it. The inference I took from your statement that you don't have a third party bonus is that was somehow an anomaly and therefore bad. If that is not what you meant, then my apologies. I would argue that few other professions are funded and managed the way the teaching profession is. The person that brought it up originally somehow made it seem like "third party" was bad. Tons of things happen in school districts that are "third party" funded , especially extracurricular activities. That doesn't necessarily mean they are bad

Trajan88 said:

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I vote "no" on every Frisco school bond issue.

School districts... always want more, more, more.

Enough! I am / we are tapped out.

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Here's the thingyou can move. There are tons of places with smaller ISDs than the behemoth that is Frisco ISD.

ABattJudd said:

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Yesterday said:

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Starting teachers get paid well, good long term teachers do not. The problem is that it's now a glorified babysitting position that is micromanaged with standardized tests. You no longer need long term outstanding teachers and there are plenty of young new graduates ready to take their place.

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I just wrapped up my 20th year with a district in central Florida. The only difference in pay between me and a brand new teacher is the $4400 additional pay I get for having an Ed.D.

I make more money as a real estate agent on the side. But I love my job, so I keep teaching.

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Which is the problem. But is a socialized profession that can't be fixed because socializing education prevents it.

That is already a thing, I believe.

Sims said:

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A lot of it is pay related but not all of it. We have experienced teachers come to our school every year which underpays compared to schools around it by 15-20%.

The teachers say that while they would obviously like to have the pay rate, they enjoy the chance to teach in a place that doesn't have constant threat of violence and has actual parent involvement. They also enjoy having an administration that will support and protect them in the face of increased demands for troublemakers to be coddled.

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Flour Bluff?

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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That is already a thing, I believe.

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Great, all these folks wanting loan forgiveness have a path then.

AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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Even worse, typically these teacher cash awards are frequently just to be used for school supplies/classroom items.

People also love conspiracy theories on why teachers are leaving the profession. It's not complicated, the money isn't good enough to pay the high performers. It's tiresome all the lame other reasons explaining it away...

aggie93 said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I'm all for merit pay for teachers and especially for trimming the fat. Unfortunately teachers don't want that. They want security and security comes at a cost in terms of incentives.

BTW, why is it that the schools who spend the least per student often have some of the best results and those who spend the most almost always have the worst? My son's school is easily a Top 20 Large Public HS in Texas and cranks out kids that crush it in college, has a robust trade program including Welding and Cosmotology, and has an exceptional sports and Robotics program yet we spend less than $7k per student, well below the State average.

The answer of course is parental involvement which no amount of money will fix.

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Because in many of the subjects "old school" pen and paper instruction is much more effective compared to high tech approaches.

I do wonder how much impact on cost per student is the expense of higher property cost for capital projects and more competition for teachers results in higher salaries.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Houston ISD is reportedly laying off over 600 administrators, and there are 20 something schools where teacher pay is being increased to $85k annually with the possibility of a $10k bonus. And other schools can opt in to the same program and be eligible for the same teacher pay. Not sure what all the "program" entails, but I think it has to do with subjecting the school to accountability metrics.

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95k for a teacher? Thats insane. Thats engineering new hire rates.

Shows you just how out of whack the marketplace is.

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It looks like the high schools in this program are Kashmere, Wheatley, and North Forest:

https://teachinhisd.org/new-education-system-schools/

Looks like you're going to be teaching in the fifth ward. As mentioned earlier in the thread, people will take less money to work in upper middle class suburbs.

They could start by removing ridiculous standards and hiring the brightest they can find. My sister taught at a wealthy private school because she was unqualified to teach in Texas public schools. She has a phd in biochemistry.

b0ridi said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Houston ISD is reportedly laying off over 600 administrators, and there are 20 something schools where teacher pay is being increased to $85k annually with the possibility of a $10k bonus. And other schools can opt in to the same program and be eligible for the same teacher pay. Not sure what all the "program" entails, but I think it has to do with subjecting the school to accountability metrics.

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95k for a teacher? Thats insane. Thats engineering new hire rates.

Shows you just how out of whack the marketplace is.

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It looks like the high schools in this program are Kashmere, Wheatley, and North Forest:

https://teachinhisd.org/new-education-system-schools/

Looks like you're going to be teaching in the fifth ward. As mentioned earlier in the thread, people will take less money to work in upper middle class suburbs.

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Is that $95K basically combat pay?

fightingfarmer09 said:

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aggie93 said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I'm all for merit pay for teachers and especially for trimming the fat. Unfortunately teachers don't want that. They want security and security comes at a cost in terms of incentives.

BTW, why is it that the schools who spend the least per student often have some of the best results and those who spend the most almost always have the worst? My son's school is easily a Top 20 Large Public HS in Texas and cranks out kids that crush it in college, has a robust trade program including Welding and Cosmotology, and has an exceptional sports and Robotics program yet we spend less than $7k per student, well below the State average.

The answer of course is parental involvement which no amount of money will fix.

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Because in many of the subjects "old school" pen and paper instruction is much more effective compared to high tech approaches.

I do wonder how much impact on cost per student is the expense of higher property cost for capital projects and more competition for teachers results in higher salaries.

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That's not it. They just don't have to waste as much money on special programs and they don't spend on overhead. They have computers just the same they just take care of them and don't buy more than they need. They buy kids exactly what is required but no more. A lot of the lower rated school districts have bought into the idea that if you have fancy facilities and newer computers and all the rest that kids will be inspired to learn. Yeah, it doesn't work like that.

aggie93 said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aggie93 said:

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AggieKatie2 said:

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I will say this. I know one of the teachers in FWISD that won teacher of the year for the entire district. The financial prize for the award was less than $1,000 and paid by a 3rd party.

Teaching is a choice, but what other business could you be the best employee out of thousands and only be given a bonus of less than $1000 without moving on.

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I'm all for merit pay for teachers and especially for trimming the fat. Unfortunately teachers don't want that. They want security and security comes at a cost in terms of incentives.

BTW, why is it that the schools who spend the least per student often have some of the best results and those who spend the most almost always have the worst? My son's school is easily a Top 20 Large Public HS in Texas and cranks out kids that crush it in college, has a robust trade program including Welding and Cosmotology, and has an exceptional sports and Robotics program yet we spend less than $7k per student, well below the State average.

The answer of course is parental involvement which no amount of money will fix.

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This teacher wants merit pay. Just explain how one does it well.

We're about to see a serious teacher shortage. Very few young people are flocking to the profession and lots of young ones are getting out.

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To do it well you have to have a good measuring system and you have to cull the bottom 20 percent regularly. Essentially run it like a business where you create a culture of incentives and achievement.

You are a small minority within teaching in wanting that and it won't work unless teachers want it.

In the meantime the real solution is empowering teachers to have more control of behavior in their classrooms and more recognition for achievement. People who go into teaching don't do it to get rich and the massive mindset change to alter that mindset isn't realistic.

We should be encouraging more people from regular backgrounds to teach. The best math and science teachers my kids have had are former engineers who wanted a less stressful job with more flexibility and were fine with making less money to have it.

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It would help if the feds would relax the rules on "double-dipping" for retirement. As it stands, you either have to have a full retirement plan in your first career or make the switch to teaching early enough to get a full retirement from TRS. You can't really switch in the middle and plan to use Social Security and TRS to meet your retirement goals.

Abe Lemons Quotes
You know what they call the fellow who finishes last in his medical school graduating class? They call him 'Doctor. '

No Spin Ag said:

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Teachers do their jobs because it's their passion, or they're not qualified to do anything else. For the former, the bonus typically means nothing compared the satisfaction they get every day by the positive effects they make with their students. It's for those teachers that their salaries aren't anywhere near what the deserve.

As for that $1000, I can almost guarantee it went to buy school supplies or whatever else would help the teacher's students succeed

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Username does not check out.