Aggie95 said:

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OP is a moron...sadly at least 4 people starred it.

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probably just his socks

I don't believe that there has been that much fraud with the PPP program.

Now with the ERC tax credits (Employee Rentention Credit) on the other hand....... That thing has fraud written all over it.

I receive at least a couple of calls a day from clients that are getting calls from these fraudulent ERC scammers promising all sorts of nonsense.

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans

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That statement only makes sense if your only understanding of the issue is the word "loan" and you don't have the slightest ****ing clue what the difference between those actually is.

The government used businesses as a middleman to give money to workers who would have been laid off.

TxTarpon said:

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Govt loan is a Govt loan, but not always a "good" govt loan?
It depends on who is getting free cash.

PPP Application below:

What does "Borrower" mean to you?
Maybe Bill Clinton could help with that definition of "is"?

$835b was the total price tag for PPP
$200b in PPP fraud (23%)
$30b recovered
Churches and Planed Parenthood got loans and loans forgiven.
That sure brought the Rs and Ds together.

Airlines got $80b during COVID, but they are a private bidness, right?
$700b in unemployment benefits.

"Free money" sure makes lots of people happy.

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I would have much rather they have not shut down the country. That said if they are offering a forgivable "loan" and you don't take it you are an idiot. That's like saying I don't like Social Security so I won't take the check or I don't like government subsidizing schools so I will pay out of state.

I know of several construction companies in our area that were busier than ever during the COVID period. They took the PPP loans and never missed a beat of work. Some had their highest grossing revenue years ever. Free money to keep on keeping on. Makes me sick to think our company refused PPP loans on principle, yet many of our subcontractors took them and stuck hundreds of thousands in cash in their pockets.

OP is funny

Then your issue with PPP loans is the fraud, not the PPP loans themselves.

Bexar Ag said:

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You had to own a business to apply no?

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no

lck90 said:

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I know of several construction companies in our area that were busier than ever during the COVID period. They took the PPP loans and never missed a beat of work. Some had their highest grossing revenue years ever. Free money to keep on keeping on. Makes me sick to think our company refused PPP loans on principle, yet many of our subcontractors took them and stuck hundreds of thousands in cash in their pockets.

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Why refuse on principle?

And the requirement was that the money be spent on payroll in order to be forgiven. What companies did with the proceeds from forgiven loan is not really anyone's business.

If the tax law changes and you save millions in taxes, do you still pay at the higher rate on... principle?

Now, I would be sick too if I had refused the money. We discussed then made a smart, rational choice to accept the money if we complied with all requirements.

Not spending a loan on its intended use is FRAUD

The legal standard is you have to abide by the loan agreement you signed. Forgiven PPP loans live up to that standard.

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I would have much rather they have not shut down the country. That said if they are offering a forgivable "loan" and you don't take it you are an idiot. That's like saying I don't like Social Security so I won't take the check or I don't like government subsidizing schools so I will pay out of state.

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Thanks for proving my point.
So ends the lesson.

Bexar Ag said:

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Not spending a loan on its intended use is FRAUD

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Ok, and it should be punished. What is your point?

If you applied for the loan, received the funds and subsequently met the qualifications for forgiveness, then what you do with the proceeds of forgiveness is none of yours nor the governments bidness.

Got it?

I will say that as the recipient of a PPP loan, I made sure I understood the terms and requirements before applying. If I had not used the funds as required, I would I would have been responsible for repaying them.

fka ftc said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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Not spending a loan on its intended use is FRAUD

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Ok, and it should be punished. What is your point?

If you applied for the loan, received the funds and subsequently met the qualifications for forgiveness, then what you do with the proceeds of forgiveness is none of yours nor the governments bidness.

Got it?

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so you're cool with FRAUD got it

Bexar Ag said:

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fka ftc said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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Not spending a loan on its intended use is FRAUD

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Ok, and it should be punished. What is your point?

If you applied for the loan, received the funds and subsequently met the qualifications for forgiveness, then what you do with the proceeds of forgiveness is none of yours nor the governments bidness.

Got it?

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so you're cool with FRAUD got it

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You may want to either reread or figure out the definition of fraud. What did you want companies to do with the loan forgiveness if they met all requirements? I guess you wanted them to donate it to Planned Parenthood to kill babies or to BLM to fund riots, gold caskets and houses in Cali?

taxpreparer said:

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I will say that as the recipient of a PPP loan, I made sure I understood the terms and requirements before applying. If I had not used the funds as required, I would I would have been responsible for repaying them.

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Correct. But to a lib you somehow committed fraud.

OP should get back to work. That's student loan isn't going to pay itself off.

It's semantics.

It should have been called a grant instead of a loan.

Given the conditions, it was a necessity. Every country that could afford to do it, did it.

It makes me sick to my stomach that I had to take out ppp. But they shut us down with no alternative.

Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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I signed a contract to pay my student loans and i paid it in full. I also signed a contract to receive a PPP loan and met the requirements to not pay anything back. Had I not met the requirements, the contract would've made me pay all or a portion back. When I signed the contract to pay back my student loan there wasnt a clause for forgiveness if I met certain requirements. see how that works?

LarryElder said:

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you know much fraud was perpetrated on PPP loans..smh

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A crapload, for sure.

Yet another reason to want smaller govt. Govt is inefficient with resources at best, and incredibly wasteful at worst.

Yupp. The socialist part wasn't paying people the money. The socialist part was the government taking control of the economy entirely and dictating who was important enough to feed themselves without government assistance.

Logos Stick said:

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Ouch?

The Green Dragon said:

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It makes me sick to my stomach that I had to take out ppp. But they shut us down with no alternative.

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You shouldn't lose any sleep on that at all.

They were obligated to keep you and your employees whole.

fka ftc said:

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lck90 said:

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I know of several construction companies in our area that were busier than ever during the COVID period. They took the PPP loans and never missed a beat of work. Some had their highest grossing revenue years ever. Free money to keep on keeping on. Makes me sick to think our company refused PPP loans on principle, yet many of our subcontractors took them and stuck hundreds of thousands in cash in their pockets.

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Why refuse on principle?

And the requirement was that the money be spent on payroll in order to be forgiven. What companies did with the proceeds from forgiven loan is not really anyone's business.

If the tax law changes and you save millions in taxes, do you still pay at the higher rate on... principle?

Now, I would be sick too if I had refused the money. We discussed then made a smart, rational choice to accept the money if we complied with all requirements.

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It wasn't my decision to refuse it. It came from above my pay grade.

Their rationale is that it was wasteful spending on behalf of the government and since we were all considered essential workers, they thought it would be nearly fraudulent to accept the money knowing that we would continue to employ our workers with or without the loan.

After seeing the amount of inflation over the last couple years, I think it was an extremely foolish decision. We kept our workers employed, but material prices impacted our bottom line severely. The loans could have helped offset that.

The intended purpose was not to help your bottom line why don't you people understand that

LarryElder said:

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DCAggie13y said:

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LarryElder said:

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DCAggie13y said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

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Those that committed fraud are going to be caught if they haven't been already. You were required to submit historical IRS form 941s to validate your payroll. Those are the forms used to determine how much you owe the IRS in payroll taxes.

So if you falsify those to get a big PPP loan you would end up owing more in payroll taxes than the value of the PPP. One way or another the fraudsters will be caught.

The fraudulent unemployment payouts are a different story and it looks like the majority of that fraud will never be recovered.

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Yeah how many people have been caught to date?

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There have been numerous news stories about people that were caught and prosecuted. The way the application was set up makes it almost impossible not to get caught. Even if someone hasn't been caught yet, the paper trail will get them eventually.

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Across the country, only 178 people have been convicted so far in PPP fraud cases, according to the Justice Department. Many more prosecutions are coming, but even if the numbers reach 2,000 or 20,000 it will be only a small fraction of the fraud.

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Not sure where you got this quote but I highly doubt there was rampant fraud that can't easily be traced. As a legit business, I had a lot of difficulty getting the loan approved even though I had all of the required paperwork. I was not alone. A lot of business owners struggled to get the loans with perfect paperwork.

Im guessing your sources are completely guessing and have little knowledge of the program.

Also corporate welfare sucks and PPP is nothing compared to all the other sweat deals that politicians dole out to companies every day.

Bexar Ag said:

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The intended purpose was not to help your bottom line why don't you people understand that

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"You people," huh?

And it absolutely was to help the bottom line as without it, there's no bottom line to maintain... all thanks to government overreach necessitating shut downs.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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You mean the loans that happened because government shut down your small business and it was the only way to keep people from losing everything?

Those loans?

Because that's SLIGHTLY different from voluntarily taking out money for a degree

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In our county the large businesses that never quit working took millions (conservative owners). The small businesses were pretty much shut out. A friend of mine that had a copier business with schools, local government and churches as his main businesses only got about 2 weeks worth of help.

PPP should definitely be paid back,

Bexar Ag said:

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You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

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You know how none of it would have been necessary if government didn't shut down small businesses for COVID theater?

Didn't you vote for Trump who shut it down

BCR said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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You mean the loans that happened because government shut down your small business and it was the only way to keep people from losing everything?

Those loans?

Because that's SLIGHTLY different from voluntarily taking out money for a degree

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In our county the large businesses that never quit working took millions (conservative owners). The small businesses were pretty much shut out. A friend of mine that had a copier business with schools, local government and churches as his main businesses only got about 2 weeks worth of help.

PPP should definitely be paid back,

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Same point to you:

Would ANY of it been necessary if government hadn't forced businesses to shut down for COVID theater?

Corporate Cronyism with a socialist wrapper. You people talk about being capitalists but you're not. Same as the hedge funds and bankers like SVB