Azul/Hedge/Not Hedge is a national treasure.

93MarineHorn said:

---

PPP was to help businesses the gov't effectively closed during the pandemic thanks to fearmongering and cowardice mostly from people like you and clowns you vote for. Surely you aren't so stupid as to miss the difference between PPP and student loans.

---

You mean like Greg Abbot and Donald Trump?
They were initially in on the flatten the curve, shut your bidness down too.

Bexar Ag said:

---

You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

---

Probably a lot, which is why it was another stupid government program with a lot of unintended consequences.

Elect better representatives that don't have the goal of trying to get re-elected by giving other people benefits that you are paying for.

While we're analyzing things... I think student loans for civil and electrical engineering should have a prime + 1% interest rate and loans for gaelic literature studies should have a prime + 15% interest rate. After all, we're underwriting risk of repayment right?

TxTarpon said:

---

"Free money" sure makes lots of people happy.

---

So certain people should have refused the money on "(R)eligious" grounds?

If the government has approved handouts, count me in on sticking my hand... out.

We kept out business open and employees working and I received well into the six figures for it. Had the PPP not been put in place, we would have cut several positions and eliminated bonuses. This allowed us to not make those cuts and remove uncertainty from our employees.

If you want to be mad at fraud and abuse, then be mad at that.

Bexar Ag said:

---

You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

---

Those that committed fraud are going to be caught if they haven't been already. You were required to submit historical IRS form 941s to validate your payroll. Those are the forms used to determine how much you owe the IRS in payroll taxes.

So if you falsify those to get a big PPP loan you would end up owing more in payroll taxes than the value of the PPP. One way or another the fraudsters will be caught.

The fraudulent unemployment payouts are a different story and it looks like the majority of that fraud will never be recovered.

All of the fraud and lack of front end diligence to rush out this money gives it a bad name. But I used it in my business and can honestly say there were a lot of people that kept their jobs solely because of the program. Do I think it should have happened? Hell no, but I do think there are a lot of business that used it for it's intended purpose.

We were in the same boat. We had 2-3 people that would have been laid off without the loans.

Quote:

---

So certain people should have refused the money on "(R)eligious" grounds?

---

Or any grounds.
Much like Tesla Ag's much maligned thread on disability payments, the people who the the bennies/cash are fans. Others paying for it, not so much.

Quote:

---

If the government has approved handouts, count me in on sticking my hand... out.

---

I saw one the other day for those wanting to go into nursing.
Texas taxpayers covering that.

Quote:

---

This allowed us to not make those cuts and remove uncertainty from our employees.

---

Good for yall. Lots of stories like that.
I know two businesses that kept chugging along and PPP went straight to the ownership partners.

Sims said:

---

While we're analyzing things... I think student loans for civil and electrical engineering should have a prime + 1% interest rate and loans for gaelic literature studies should have a prime + 15% interest rate. After all, we're underwriting risk of repayment right?

---

I have a better idea. Just get the government out of the student-loan (housing/healthcare) business and let the market decide the appropriate terms.

DCAggie13y said:

---

Bexar Ag said:

---

You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

---

Those that committed fraud are going to be caught if they haven't been already. You were required to submit historical IRS form 941s to validate your payroll. Those are the forms used to determine how much you owe the IRS in payroll taxes.

So if you falsify those to get a big PPP loan you would end up owing more in payroll taxes than the value of the PPP. One way or another the fraudsters will be caught.

The fraudulent unemployment payouts are a different story and it looks like the majority of that fraud will never be recovered.

---

Yeah how many people have been caught to date?

OP is a moron...sadly at least 4 people starred it.

TxTarpon said:

---

Good for yall. Lots of stories like that.
I know two businesses that kept chugging along and PPP went straight to the ownership partners.

---

Yeah, but when the time comes, you'll be right here supporting the next government bailout for whatever BS "necessity" they advance.

Bexar Ag said:

---

If a business student or family of a student can't keep reserves of employees salary college costs that's their own fault, why should taxpayers bail out these business owners students who used the loans for investment properties, personal cash reserves, lavish trips, etc… worthless degrees...

---

FIFY

Your comment about what the loans were used for (investment properties, personal cash reserves, lavish trips) is evidence you know nothing (or less) about PPP loans.

LarryElder said:

---

DCAggie13y said:

---

Bexar Ag said:

---

You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

---

Those that committed fraud are going to be caught if they haven't been already. You were required to submit historical IRS form 941s to validate your payroll. Those are the forms used to determine how much you owe the IRS in payroll taxes.

So if you falsify those to get a big PPP loan you would end up owing more in payroll taxes than the value of the PPP. One way or another the fraudsters will be caught.

The fraudulent unemployment payouts are a different story and it looks like the majority of that fraud will never be recovered.

---

Yeah how many people have been caught to date?

---

There have been numerous news stories about people that were caught and prosecuted. The way the application was set up makes it almost impossible not to get caught. Even if someone hasn't been caught yet, the paper trail will get them eventually.

_mpaul said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Good for yall. Lots of stories like that.
I know two businesses that kept chugging along and PPP went straight to the ownership partners.

---

Yeah, but when the time comes, you'll be right her supporting the next government bailout for whatever BS "necessity" they advance.

---

Her?
Paying attention ain't your thing.
Run along and cash your gubbermint check.

TxTarpon said:

---

_mpaul said:

---

TxTarpon said:

---

Good for yall. Lots of stories like that.
I know two businesses that kept chugging along and PPP went straight to the ownership partners.

---

Yeah, but when the time comes, you'll be right her supporting the next government bailout for whatever BS "necessity" they advance.

---

Her?
Paying attention ain't your thing.
Run along and cash your gubbermint check.

---

Oh, you got me on a typo! Solid.

_mpaul said:

---

Sims said:

---

While we're analyzing things... I think student loans for civil and electrical engineering should have a prime + 1% interest rate and loans for gaelic literature studies should have a prime + 15% interest rate. After all, we're underwriting risk of repayment right?

---

I have a better idea. Just get the government out of the student-loan (housing/healthcare) business and let the market decide the appropriate terms.

---

_mpaul said:

---

Sims said:

---

While we're analyzing things... I think student loans for civil and electrical engineering should have a prime + 1% interest rate and loans for gaelic literature studies should have a prime + 15% interest rate. After all, we're underwriting risk of repayment right?

---

I have a better idea. Just get the government out of the student-loan (housing/healthcare) business and let the market decide the appropriate terms.

---

Yeah!
Get da gubbermint out of it all!!
No more state government colleges and universities!
No more government owned football stadiums and teams!
Free market will win!
Onward to prosperity sir!

TxTarpon said:

---

Teslag said:

---

LarryElder said:

---

LOL I know soo many businesses just took the money and closed down anyway.

---

If they did that they would be required to pay back the loan. They had to keep the payroll for a set amount of time and it wasn't short.

---

See above with the $200b in fraud reference

---

I have no idea who came up with the $200b in fraud nor how accurate it is. If they know the amount, then they know who committed the fraud and they should go after them.

I am sure there was fraud, some of it has been found out and prosecuted. They should go after some of the bigger instances of fraud, prosecute them, and put them in prison for decades. Have it in the headlines over and over again. Then give a 30-day grace period for those who know they committed fraud or think they may have committed fraud to fess up and pay it back or risk twice the time in prison.

Jeez... Tell me you don't know **** without telling me you don't know *****.

In your mind business owners are just flush with cash and if they're not it's because they're frivolously spending it all on their own luxury items. That's not at all true. Most of us are scraping by because competition is so high that our margins are eroded to **** so that we can compete.

You have no clue.

Was there tons of fraud for the PPP loans? Sure, go find them and put them in jail. I don't care about that. But to punish the rest of businesses that were shut down by force and offered this loan with forgiveness promised up front so that they wouldn't lay off all of their employees and create a ****ing catastrophe the level of which you cant imagine... it's asinine.

To compare it to student loan forgiveness... again asinine.

OP should cry harder.

DCAggie13y said:

---

LarryElder said:

---

DCAggie13y said:

---

Bexar Ag said:

---

Y

---

---

---

---

DCAggie13y said:

---

LarryElder said:

---

DCAggie13y said:

---

Bexar Ag said:

---

You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

---

Those that committed fraud are going to be caught if they haven't been already. You were required to submit historical IRS form 941s to validate your payroll. Those are the forms used to determine how much you owe the IRS in payroll taxes.

So if you falsify those to get a big PPP loan you would end up owing more in payroll taxes than the value of the PPP. One way or another the fraudsters will be caught.

The fraudulent unemployment payouts are a different story and it looks like the majority of that fraud will never be recovered.

---

Yeah how many people have been caught to date?

---

There have been numerous news stories about people that were caught and prosecuted. The way the application was set up makes it almost impossible not to get caught. Even if someone hasn't been caught yet, the paper trail will get them eventually.

---

Quote:

---

Across the country, only 178 people have been convicted so far in PPP fraud cases, according to the Justice Department. Many more prosecutions are coming, but even if the numbers reach 2,000 or 20,000 it will be only a small fraction of the fraud.

---

Quote:

---

I have no idea who came up with the $200b in fraud nor how accurate it is. If they know the amount, then they know who committed the fraud and they should go after them.

---

The Govt is Going After the Ones they Want

Quote:

---

Then give a 30-day grace period for those who know they committed fraud or think they may have committed fraud to fess up and pay it back or risk twice the time in prison.

---

Were you on the Hunter Biden deal?
Come on man, commit fraud like this and get prison time.
Big DemocRAT supporters will get your treatement above.

Ducks4brkfast said:

---

One was an act of congress. One was not.

Hth.

---

EOT

Bexar Ag said:

---

If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

---

Quote:

---

You mean like Greg Abbot and Donald Trump?

They were initially in on the flatten the curve, shut your bidness down too.

---

Yes, there was cowardice and a failure of leadership all around. But lets not pretend this wasn't 90% coming from the Left.

OP, leave the adult matters to the adults.

The sandbox has toys in it for your entertainment…

Who benefits the most business owners, what political party do most business owners lean?

Didn't read thread.

Do the "PPP loans were forgiven" idiots know that you had to prove you paid all of that out in payroll?

Bexar Ag said:

---

Who benefits the most business owners, what political party do most business owners lean?

---

It didn't just go to business owners, so that sort of ruins whatever weak argument you were going to make right there.

Try / cry harder.

You had to own a business to apply no?

93MarineHorn said:

---

Quote:

---

You mean like Greg Abbot and Donald Trump?

They were initially in on the flatten the curve, shut your bidness down too.

---

Yes, there was cowardice and a failure of leadership all around. But lets not pretend this wasn't 90% coming from the Left.

---

"The Left" does not run Texas state govt.
Gov Grabbit was a (censored) during COVID.
What he did to Shelly Luther was criminal.