BudFox7 said:

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K. Unemployment should be paid back. Along with stimulus checks and all the other giveaways.

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No, because those did not go to white liberals at their white liberal indoctrination camps

Bexar Ag said:

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If a business can't keep reserves of employees salary that's their own fault, why should taxpayers bail out these business owners who used the loans for investment properties, personal cash reserves, lavish trips, etc…

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WTF are you talking about? Businesses who kept employees on board, allowing them to continue to provide for their families despite little to no revenue coming in for the business is what we are talking about here. Who said anything about lavish trips, etc?

You guys don't have to worry about PPP fraud. Joe is in the case…

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2022/08/05/biden-signs-bills-aimed-at-catching-pandemic-business-loan-cheats

one safe place said:

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BCR said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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You mean the loans that happened because government shut down your small business and it was the only way to keep people from losing everything?

Those loans?

Because that's SLIGHTLY different from voluntarily taking out money for a degree

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In our county the large businesses that never quit working took millions (conservative owners). The small businesses were pretty much shut out. A friend of mine that had a copier business with schools, local government and churches as his main businesses only got about 2 weeks worth of help.

PPP should definitely be paid back,

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Small businesses were pretty much shut out? Do you have any support for that? Shut out based on what?

Whatever your friend with the copier business got was based on his payroll or gross profit if self-employed with no payroll. If his numbers were small, so too would be his PPP loan amount.

Conservative owners, huh? That comment is revealing.

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There was a way to see every business that received the loans in your county. I came from a small county and knew the owners. Yes conservative owners is telling. They were taking government handouts one day then *****ing about them the next. Sorry it tarnishes your think and act like me club image.

one safe place said:

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BCR said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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BCR said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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You mean the loans that happened because government shut down your small business and it was the only way to keep people from losing everything?

Those loans?

Because that's SLIGHTLY different from voluntarily taking out money for a degree

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In our county the large businesses that never quit working took millions (conservative owners). The small businesses were pretty much shut out. A friend of mine that had a copier business with schools, local government and churches as his main businesses only got about 2 weeks worth of help.

PPP should definitely be paid back,

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Same point to you:

Would ANY of it been necessary if government hadn't forced businesses to shut down for COVID theater?

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The people who took the most never shut down. They never should have received money. They took it with no intention paying it back. Not supporting the shutdown. Definitely don't support the fraud. Yes they should pay it back.

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They didn't have to shut down to qualify for the PPP loan. They received money under the terms of the PPP loan program. If they followed the rules, then they did not have to pay it back. You liberals who don't own a business just hate those who do, those who are successful, even when they play by the rules.

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You call me a liberal because I do not favor fraud. I guess conservatives must just look the other way.
I'm actually very conservative. I just call it like I see it. Quit toeing a company line and start thinking for yourself.

Urban Ag said:

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All of you, sans the Op/Hedge, are correct in that it's an apples to oranges argument being laid out.

That said...........companies with "essential workers" got PPP loans too. I know, I consulted for a company that was never shut down (telecom construction) and they got their PPP. I helped them get it. There was also a ton of fraud and I don't think the feds were really that stringent ensuring that any entity that received PPP was following the rules.

But year, bad comparison.

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now that we have seen how the world survived over the last 3 years

looking back-

would it have been better to never have any lockdowns and never have to pump TRILLIONS of debt into the economy as people were forced to stay at home and now we have massive inflation for 18 months.

I know it is monday morning quarterbacking-

but what does the assemblage think would have been the BEST policy if we knew back then what we know now?

Aglaw97 said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

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Then prosecute the fraud. Absolutely! That's a wholly separate issue from your original post.

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Exactly
ETA: forgot to mention goal posts moving

edit spelling

Bexar Ag said:

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Didn't you vote for Trump who shut it down

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I could be wrong but:

The states shut down business and large groups.

The Feds shut down some federal operations and made some requirements for PPE use and vaccinations the shots for federally run agencies.

President Trump made mistakes but in this instance deferral the states authority.

BCR said:

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one safe place said:

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BCR said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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BCR said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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You mean the loans that happened because government shut down your small business and it was the only way to keep people from losing everything?

Those loans?

Because that's SLIGHTLY different from voluntarily taking out money for a degree

---

In our county the large businesses that never quit working took millions (conservative owners). The small businesses were pretty much shut out. A friend of mine that had a copier business with schools, local government and churches as his main businesses only got about 2 weeks worth of help.

PPP should definitely be paid back,

---

Same point to you:

Would ANY of it been necessary if government hadn't forced businesses to shut down for COVID theater?

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The people who took the most never shut down. They never should have received money. They took it with no intention paying it back. Not supporting the shutdown. Definitely don't support the fraud. Yes they should pay it back.

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They didn't have to shut down to qualify for the PPP loan. They received money under the terms of the PPP loan program. If they followed the rules, then they did not have to pay it back. You liberals who don't own a business just hate those who do, those who are successful, even when they play by the rules.

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You call me a liberal because I do not favor fraud. I guess conservatives must just look the other way.
I'm actually very conservative. I just call it like I see it. Quit toeing a company line and start thinking for yourself.

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It isn't fraud if a program is put in place and you follow the rules. It is fraud to you because you hate to see someone get something that you did not get because you don't own a business and do not qualify. Those business owners pay a lot of tax, probably pay more in a year than you make, and they create jobs.

The government killed the economy, set up the PPP program and EIDL program, and if a business got either, and went by the rules, it isn't fraud, no matter how much that hurts your feelings.

eric76 said:

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Aglaw97 said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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You know how much fraud with those loans has taken place?

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Then prosecute the fraud. Absolutely! That's a wholly separate issue from your original post.

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I know a guy who pled guilty and is awaiting sentencing:

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3385041

He finally found his true calling in life and will hopefully be there soon.

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He got 15 years.

Actually, he got 25 years, but two of the sentences will run concurrently.

https://www.lubbockonline.com/story/news/courts/2023/08/28/south-plains-man-gets-15-year-sentence-in-ppp-loan-fraud-scheme/70674633007/

Quote:

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Hendrix sentenced him to 13 years in prison on the bank fraud charges, two years to the identity theft charge and 10 years for the remaining charge.

Hendrix ordered Johnson to serve the 13 and 10 year sentences at the same time. Once he finishes serving those sentences, he will begin serving the two- year sentence.

Johnson was also ordered to pay about $4.15 million in restitution and to forfeit numerous assets, including multiple luxury cars, according to a release form the U.S. Attorneys Office in the Northern District of Texas.

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They also have his girlfriend for misprision of felony.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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You mean the loans that happened because government shut down your small business and it was the only way to keep people from losing everything?

Those loans?

Because that's SLIGHTLY different from voluntarily taking out money for a degree

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I regret I have only one star to give to this post.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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You mean the loans that happened because government shut down your small business and it was the only way to keep people from losing everything?

Those loans?

Because that's SLIGHTLY different from voluntarily taking out money for a degree

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What about those who created false businesses and claimed bogus employees to get the loans?

Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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Prevented mass layoffs and a second Great Depression. Try again dufuses

AggieMD95 said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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If student loans are required to, why arent PPP loans. That was free money given to business owners who pocketed that cash. Pure Socialism.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/09/1145040599/ppp-loan-forgiveness

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Prevented mass layoffs and a second Great Depression. Try again dufuses

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Only because govt mandated shutting down businesses.

They caused the problem and then made it worse: rampant inflation.

LMCane said:

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Urban Ag said:

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All of you, sans the Op/Hedge, are correct in that it's an apples to oranges argument being laid out.

That said...........companies with "essential workers" got PPP loans too. I know, I consulted for a company that was never shut down (telecom construction) and they got their PPP. I helped them get it. There was also a ton of fraud and I don't think the feds were really that stringent ensuring that any entity that received PPP was following the rules.

But year, bad comparison.

---

now that we have seen how the world survived over the last 3 years

looking back-

would it have been better to never have any lockdowns and never have to pump TRILLIONS of debt into the economy as people were forced to stay at home and now we have massive inflation for 18 months.

I know it is monday morning quarterbacking-

but what does the assemblage think would have been the BEST policy if we knew back then what we know now?

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Yes. Lockdown should've only
Lasted they spring break.

Didn't Sweden skip lockdowns ? And was no worse off from disease perspective and better off from economic and mental health perspective

I think that any action taken should have been local, not state-wide or nation-wide, and only as truly needed locally.

Reminder that we shut down the entire country and killed off hundreds of thousands of small businesses over a virus with a 0.3% IFR.