InfantryAg said:

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LMCane said:

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but step number one should have been to get in his police car with the siren and high tail it around the mall

rather than try to jog on foot when he is not in great running shape

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No.

Maybe get in the car and drive closer, but lights and sirens make you a target.

If you don't know exactly where the shooter is you don't want to drive into him shooting at you. This cop only had a general direction where the shots were coming and didn't think he was gonna run as far as he had to.

You also have way less situational awareness in a car. If you don't have the location of the shooter, you need to be aware of any clues (shot direction, loudness, bystanders running etc)

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I would think the entire point IS to have the murderer focus his attention on the cops.

this isn't a stealth SEAL mission,

if the objective of the police is to SAVE the community- you want the murderer suddenly seeing LEO all around and closing in on him as quickly as possible even if it means the police become the target instead of the civilians

This will be a training video for years on how to handle an active shooter. Quick but not reckless, calm, communicated well, accurate shot, eliminated the threat. Couldn't have done a better job!

Bird Poo said:

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Is there a way to extend appreciation to this particular officer?

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To my knowledge they have not publicly identified him yet.

dvldog said:

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For context, here is a map of the outlets with approximate key locations marked:



1. Where the officer was talking to the family at the beginning of the recording
2. H&M where the first shootings/murders took place
3. Where the officer fired from
4. Where the shooter's body was at the end of the recording

edit: updated map for location #2

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Is that section in the middle employee parking only? I don't remember seeing that parking area before

5 mins to neutralize the threat in that environment? They should name the mall after him. Glad he is watching out over the public.

Yes I think so. We've accidentally turned in there before and I think it's for employees and deliveries through the back doors of each shop.

ts5641 said:

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This will be a training video for years on how to handle an active shooter. Quick but not reckless, calm, communicated well, accurate shot, eliminated the threat. Couldn't have done a better job!

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Only thing he could have possibly done better was be in good enough physical shape to be faster. But as someone mentioned, adrenaline can be a beeyatch. I guess better training could help...not saying we need to prep them to the extent we do Marines or anything, but I kept saying to myself "dude, hurry up". I guess not everyone works out and does cardio though. Wish more police would devote themselves to regular exercise. Just jogging for 30 minutes 2-3 times a week could have probably helped here.

I am not taking anything away from him, you can only do what your body will let you, but I know for certain I (along with quite a few on here) could have carried a much faster pace than that. Been doing so for 3-4 miles a few times a week in 100+ degree heat. I wonder if part of it could have been him struggling internally with fight vs flight? Other than that, he was perfect.

BG Knocc Out said:

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ts5641 said:

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This will be a training video for years on how to handle an active shooter. Quick but not reckless, calm, communicated well, accurate shot, eliminated the threat. Couldn't have done a better job!

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Only thing he could have possibly done better was be in good enough physical shape to be faster. But as someone mentioned, adrenaline can be a beeyatch. I guess better training could help...not saying we need to prep them to the extent we do Marines or anything, but I kept saying to myself "dude, hurry up". I guess not everyone works out and does cardio though. Wish more police would devote themselves to regular exercise.

I am not taking anything away from him, you can only do what your body will let you, but I know for certain I (along with quite a few on here) could have carried a much faster pace than that. Been doing so for 3-4 miles a few times a week in 100+ degree heat.

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Not taking anything away from the courage and bravery.

Looking at most police officers now their health is a risk to themselves, other officers, and the public. Many could not pass a basic fitness test sadly. It's hard to believe that is where we are at as a country.

...the dude is probably carrying 40 lbs of gear on him including his vest.

Thanks for this, helps with understanding the situation. LEO was essentially chasing down the shooter from behind.

Secolobo said:

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...the dude is probably carrying 40 lbs of gear on him including his vest.

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Every cop should be able to easily run or jog 1/3 mile or whatever the distance was with their gear at a better pace. I am not blaming him really, we have basically no physical fitness standards for modern LE.

If more people had been in vulnerable positions, running vs walking could have possibly helped save additional lives.

Quote:

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I guess not everyone works out and does cardio though. Wish more police would devote themselves to regular exercise. Just jogging for 30 minutes 2-3 times a week could have probably helped here.

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Agreed. I think they should be given time during their shifts. They can use the Couch to 5K app and be fit enough in no time. I know it can be done - I was 230 lbs and hadn't exercised regularly in over 30 years. Immediately lost 30 lbs and began completing 5K's - at age 55. So these younger officers can do it regardless of their current condition.

Shagga said:

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Quote:

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I guess not everyone works out and does cardio though. Wish more police would devote themselves to regular exercise. Just jogging for 30 minutes 2-3 times a week could have probably helped here.

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Agreed. I think they should be given time during their shifts. They can use the Couch to 5K app an be fit enough in no time. I know it can be done - I was 230 lbs and hadn't exercised regularly in over 30 years. Immediately lost 30 lbs and began completing 5K's - at age 55. So these younger officers can do it regardless of their current condition.

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Yep, and to be fair...if I understand it correctly, there's no way he could have saved the poor people killed outside of H&M. I am just saying, if hypothetically, more people had been exposed or unable to get away from the shooter, it could have made a very real difference getting there just 20-30 seconds earlier. The guy is a badass, and a hero, and it is impressive how he was able to take that killer out...I just think that's the one area he could have performed better in.

Alte Schule said:

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Wheatables02 said:

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BigHitterDaLama said:

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Just curious.......the shooter here in the released video is in front of a Fatburger. The original released pics had him in front of the H&M as below. Which is it?

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This is the family that was murdered plus one other individual. The shooter was taken down by fat burger. You can see the officer pass this location in the video and tell them help is coming. That broke my heart.

If you want better Officers, demand that they get paid more from your cities and get better benefits. They are leaving every agency and they can't fill these positions. Agencies are lowering standards so the quality is only going to get worse.

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There are no law enforcement agencies in the State of Texas that are lowering their standards. Without exception, all commissioned law enforcement officers, that includes state, county and municipalities, are required to be certified by TCOLE the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement and their standards for certification have only increased over the years.

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No. Many departments set higher standards than TCOLE. These departments are throwing out things such as college degrees, lowering PT standards, allowing more leeway in personal drug use, criminal history, etc. Hardly any agency is meeting their hiring goal and retirements and resignations are outnumbering hires.

This looks like a text book case of how to do your job that should be shown to all LEOs. A+++

BG Knocc Out said:

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Secolobo said:

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...the dude is probably carrying 40 lbs of gear on him including his vest.

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Every cop should be able to easily run or jog 1/3 mile or whatever the distance was with their gear at a better pace. I am not blaming him really, we have basically no physical fitness standards for modern LE.

If more people had been in vulnerable positions, running vs walking could have possibly helped save additional lives.

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Why is fitness not a part of LEO job duties? Don't most firefighters have to pass physical fitness tests? My father-in-law was a firefighter for 30 years, and they trained for fitness all the time. Not sure if it was mandated as part of their job, or something they did at his specific station.

techno-ag said:

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Cop saves people.

TexAgs gripes cop is out of shape.

Typical.

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I was responding to the "couldn't have done a better job". Yes he could have been quicker, but I am assuming he gave his best effort, and was just limited physically. He's amazing and a hero, but I hope this inspires him to get in better physical shape. He was walking for a lot of that.

On the fat cop topic.

A few weeks ago I participated in the HPD Marksmanship Teams 3Gun competition. Lots of great guys that shoot well. Also lots of XL size duty belts.

Wheatables02 said:

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Alte Schule said:

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Wheatables02 said:

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BigHitterDaLama said:

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Just curious.......the shooter here in the released video is in front of a Fatburger. The original released pics had him in front of the H&M as below. Which is it?

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This is the family that was murdered plus one other individual. The shooter was taken down by fat burger. You can see the officer pass this location in the video and tell them help is coming. That broke my heart.

If you want better Officers, demand that they get paid more from your cities and get better benefits. They are leaving every agency and they can't fill these positions. Agencies are lowering standards so the quality is only going to get worse.

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There are no law enforcement agencies in the State of Texas that are lowering their standards. Without exception, all commissioned law enforcement officers, that includes state, county and municipalities, are required to be certified by TCOLE the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement and their standards for certification have only increased over the years.

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No. Many departments set higher standards than TCOLE. These departments are throwing out things such as college degrees, lowering PT standards, allowing more leeway in personal drug use, criminal history, etc. Hardly any agency is meeting their hiring goal and retirements and resignations are outnumbering hires.

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I retired from law enforcement in 2017. I'm not saying you are wrong but for the past 20 years or more many agencies have accepted applicants with certain Class C convictions such as MIP, Possession of Marijuana, Public Intoxication and some traffic offenses. Why? Many departments realized that young people make mistakes and other than these minor discretion(s)s they are qualified. Visible tattoos used to be an automatic disqualifier. Since 2000 or so those rules have been relaxed, for many agencies, to no neck, face or hand tattoos. Why? Again too many qualified applicants, especially ex military, were being rejected for having arm tattoos. Are these examples of lowering standards? Maybe but maybe not. Times change.

To state that "Hardly any agency is meeting their hiring goal and retirements and resignations are outnumbering hires." is painting with a broad brush. It may be true but, although, Woke cities like Austin, Houston and Dallas may have lower recruiting and high retirement numbers they have not lowered their standards for initial employment. I know CSPD, Bryan PD, and BCSO have had the same standards for years. A large percentage of Texas LEO applicants are rejected for not being truthful on their application ppwk, problems with their background checks or polygraph exam or can't pass the rigors of the TCOLE sponsored academy, (which is a requirement for all LEO's) physical training and test or fail the TCOLE examination. It's probable that some departments/agencies in this state may have tweaked or lowered their hiring criteria but the TCLO standards apply to all.

Charpie said:

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Texmid said:

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Too bad that cop wasn't in Uvalde. Brave man and great shots under pressure.

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Agreed.

Uvalde will never happen again. Cops will never hesitate in a mass shooting situation again.

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They said the same thing after the coward at Parkland stood by and did nothing. It will happen again.

LMCane said:

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InfantryAg said:

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LMCane said:

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but step number one should have been to get in his police car with the siren and high tail it around the mall

rather than try to jog on foot when he is not in great running shape

---

No.

Maybe get in the car and drive closer, but lights and sirens make you a target.

If you don't know exactly where the shooter is you don't want to drive into him shooting at you. This cop only had a general direction where the shots were coming and didn't think he was gonna run as far as he had to.

You also have way less situational awareness in a car. If you don't have the location of the shooter, you need to be aware of any clues (shot direction, loudness, bystanders running etc)

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I would think the entire point IS to have the murderer focus his attention on the cops.

this isn't a stealth SEAL mission,

if the objective of the police is to SAVE the community- you want the murderer suddenly seeing LEO all around and closing in on him as quickly as possible even if it means the police become the target instead of the civilians

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This is how all active shooter training is taught. Move fast when you know where the shooter is, slow down and move tactically and locate the shooter when you don't know where he is. When you get an update (gunfire, people etc) move fast again.

It doesn't do anyone any good to have the cop blaze up and get shot, and the shooter continues on till more cops show up.

It doesn't do much good for the shooter to hear the siren coming and duck in to a store or some other method to avoid/ prolong contact. Active shooter normally only end their lives when they are cornered.

I mapped it in Google Earth. He ran 420 yards (including a little bit in the wrong direction right at first) and then shot him from 110 yards away. It took 20 seconds from hearing the shots to have a rifle out and start running. It took 3 minutes from the first shots fired to the police returning fire. And it took 3.5 minutes from first shots fired to him radioing in that the suspect was down. The policeman shot 14 times total.

Ogre09 said:

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I mapped it in Google Earth. He ran 420 yards (including a little bit in the wrong direction right at first) and then shot him from 110 yards away. It took 20 seconds from hearing the shots to have a rifle out and start running. It took 3 minutes from the first shots fired to the police returning fire. And it took 3.5 minutes from first shots fired to him radioing in that the suspect was down. The policeman shot 14 times total.

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That is not slow at all. That cop is in pretty good shape. You cannot just go sprinting into a situation like that. To make those shots at 110 yards while amped up and breathing hard is some nice shooting.

Ogre09 said:

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I mapped it in Google Earth. He ran 420 yards (including a little bit in the wrong direction right at first) and then shot him from 110 yards away. It took 20 seconds from hearing the shots to have a rifle out and start running. It took 3 minutes from the first shots fired to the police returning fire. And it took 3.5 minutes from first shots fired to him radioing in that the suspect was down. The policeman shot 14 times total.

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It took 0.1seconds at 3130 fps for the 5.56mm round to send the perp to hell. Good shooting.

Yeah, anything "slow" seemed to be from still trying to echo-locate and eventually get a visual

I think he did a great job. Better than all us keyboard warriors would have managed.