Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]

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LMCane
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In reply to TXAG 05 • 7:31a, 6/22/23
TXAG 05 said:
LMCane said:
TXAG 05 said:
PA24 said:


Rest in Peace


They had said the oxygen would run out about 4-5AM this morning, so that's it for them. Good chance we may never know what happened.

I think we will know

either nothing is ever found of any of the Titan and therefore it was crushed into tiny bits by the water pressure and a crack in the hull

or they do find the Titan and can determine if it was hung up on the wreckage or a fire broke out which asphyxiated them


Unless the sub is sitting on the deck of Titanic, the chances of finding it are not good. Remember that there is a huge debris field surrounding the wreck, plus there is no telling how far it has drifted if it did just lose power. It may not be anywhere near it.
I think with technology - just like they found the Titanic after 1912 two miles on the ocean floor,

if the Titan is still intact they will someday find it

how many people are looking for wrecks all over the world and they find individual planes 80 years later?
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Decay
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7:37a, 6/22/23
AG
One issue is the size here. It's tiny tiny especially compared to the Titanic itself. A little drifting from the site, a little sediment covering it, and you might not find it from any visual search.

Would sonar be able to map out the ocean floor in that much detail?
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Bonus Hole
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7:38a, 6/22/23
With Bluetooth technology and wireless capabilities, you could steer this sub with your android or iPhone. Much like people use their phones to fly drones in the air and view the camera feed on their phone and have touchscreen controls, same for this sub.

If internet was a thing down there, not sure it is, I could control that sub from Kyle Field.

I think people just want the physical presence of being down there in the ocean and seeing the wreck in person
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McInnis 03
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In reply to Bonus Hole • 7:42a, 6/22/23
AG
AgsOnDeck said:
With Bluetooth technology and wireless capabilities, you could steer this sub with your android or iPhone. Much like people use their phones to fly drones in the air and view the camera feed on their phone and have touchscreen controls, same for this sub.

If internet was a thing down there, not sure it is, I could control that sub from Kyle Field.

I think people just want the physical presence of being down there in the ocean and seeing the wreck in person
Based on my experiences with bluetooth speaker/headphone connections....if my life depended on listening to a certain song, like I absolutely HAD to hear this song to continue living..........I'm going with corded headphones every time over bluetooth buds or an external BT speaker.......

But I'm old (42 is old right? My friends say I'm old) so maybe that's just me.
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Bonus Hole
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In reply to McInnis 03 • 7:43a, 6/22/23
100%

I've had issues connecting to my headphones for running
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Bonus Hole
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7:45a, 6/22/23
"Titanic Sub: Lost at Sea" has been scheduled to air on Thursday at 7 p.m. local time. The doc will be presented by 5 News host Dan Walker.

That's UK time, so this will air in few hours

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G Martin 87
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In reply to Logos Stick • 7:49a, 6/22/23
AG
Logos Stick said:
G Martin 87 said:
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
Low hanging fruit. The number of submersible engineers truly qualified to opine on the design of the Titan is very small. Every 12 year old can tell detailed stories about the time their game controller crapped out right when they were about to break high score.


Uh, this thing failed and killed several people. But yeah, submersible engineers need only opine.

It seems it was a disaster waiting to happen based on all the information we have thus far.
Unruffle your feathers. I didn't say that only submersible engineers are allowed to opine. Of course anyone can. I'm implying that it's much easier for people to opine about things they're familar with. Like game controllers. That's why people keep focusing on them. Easier target. Wouldn't you agree?
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McInnis 03
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In reply to Bonus Hole • 7:50a, 6/22/23
AG
This is almost like a media obituary pre-written for someone like Willie Nelson or some other 90+ year old celeb.

It's as though they had this one worked up ready to go..........
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Bonus Hole
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In reply to G Martin 87 • 7:53a, 6/22/23
G Martin 87 said:
Logos Stick said:
G Martin 87 said:
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
Low hanging fruit. The number of submersible engineers truly qualified to opine on the design of the Titan is very small. Every 12 year old can tell detailed stories about the time their game controller crapped out right when they were about to break high score.


Uh, this thing failed and killed several people. But yeah, submersible engineers need only opine.

It seems it was a disaster waiting to happen based on all the information we have thus far.
Unruffle your feathers. I didn't say that only submersible engineers are allowed to opine. Of course anyone can. I'm implying that it's much easier for people to opine about things they're familar with. Like game controllers. That's why people keep focusing on them. Easier target. Wouldn't you agree?


This is the classic Jimbo Fisher debate.

Fire Jimbo!

TexAgs: "are you going to write the check?"

We don't need to be subject matter experts or BMAs to debate flaws with the sub or Jimbo's contract
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Logos Stick
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In reply to G Martin 87 • 7:53a, 6/22/23
G Martin 87 said:
Logos Stick said:
G Martin 87 said:
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
Low hanging fruit. The number of submersible engineers truly qualified to opine on the design of the Titan is very small. Every 12 year old can tell detailed stories about the time their game controller crapped out right when they were about to break high score.


Uh, this thing failed and killed several people. But yeah, submersible engineers need only opine.

It seems it was a disaster waiting to happen based on all the information we have thus far.
Unruffle your feathers. I didn't say that only submersible engineers are allowed to opine. Of course anyone can. I'm implying that it's much easier for people to opine about things they're familar with. Like game controllers. That's why people keep focusing on them. Easier target. Wouldn't you agree?


Yeah, I would agree.
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G Martin 87
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In reply to Bonus Hole • 7:56a, 6/22/23
AG
AgsOnDeck said:
G Martin 87 said:
Logos Stick said:
G Martin 87 said:
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
Low hanging fruit. The number of submersible engineers truly qualified to opine on the design of the Titan is very small. Every 12 year old can tell detailed stories about the time their game controller crapped out right when they were about to break high score.


Uh, this thing failed and killed several people. But yeah, submersible engineers need only opine.

It seems it was a disaster waiting to happen based on all the information we have thus far.
Unruffle your feathers. I didn't say that only submersible engineers are allowed to opine. Of course anyone can. I'm implying that it's much easier for people to opine about things they're familar with. Like game controllers. That's why people keep focusing on them. Easier target. Wouldn't you agree?


This is the classic Jimbo Fisher debate.

Fire Jimbo!

TexAgs: "are you going to write the check?"

We don't need to be subject matter experts to debate flaws with the sub
Holy cow, did you even read my reply? The question was why is everyone complaining about the game controllers. The answer is because everyone is familiar with game controllers. That's all. Carry on.
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45-70Ag
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7:56a, 6/22/23
AG
If it's still intact, I'm not sure how you would ever find it 12,000 feet down and in darkness.

If it lost power could currents sweep it way off track as it descends?
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agracer
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In reply to Logos Stick • 7:57a, 6/22/23
AG
Logos Stick said:
AnScAggie said:
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
I believe it is more about the Logitech wireless controller that adds another level of possible failure rate and not having a hardwired controller. I know that every once in a while my truck refuses to connect to my phone and other times my phone refuses to connect to my outdoor stereo speaker system. In both cases I have to reboot/turn off and on something, probably not ideal when you are 2.5 miles underwater.


I'm not a submersible engineer, but everything in there should have been redundant. Was it?

And you're right. Why not have everything wired.

Like you, I've had wireless issues with my truck and phone syncing. I've never had it fail when plugged in via USB.
unless it's one of those touchy Apple cables that only work for 6-months then randomly don't work anymore!
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BadMoonRisin
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7:58a, 6/22/23
AG
The same hubris that claimed the lives of thousands in 1912 has claimed another 5.

May their voyage have served as the "inspiration" to abandon this idea that immutable characteristics are preferred to experience.

I feel bad for the 4 "crew members", but the CEOs rep needs to be dragged through the mud and given the Elizabeth Holmes treatment. His negligence directly caused this.
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ThunderCougarFalconBird
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In reply to Decay • 8:00a, 6/22/23
AG
Decay said:
One issue is the size here. It's tiny tiny especially compared to the Titanic itself. A little drifting from the site, a little sediment covering it, and you might not find it from any visual search.

Would sonar be able to map out the ocean floor in that much detail?
they couldn't identify the titanic itself with sonar. They found it dragging light and camera arrays in a rov hovering over the ocean floor until they visibly saw debris.
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Bonus Hole
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In reply to G Martin 87 • 8:05a, 6/22/23
G Martin 87 said:
AgsOnDeck said:
G Martin 87 said:
Logos Stick said:
G Martin 87 said:
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
Low hanging fruit. The number of submersible engineers truly qualified to opine on the design of the Titan is very small. Every 12 year old can tell detailed stories about the time their game controller crapped out right when they were about to break high score.


Uh, this thing failed and killed several people. But yeah, submersible engineers need only opine.

It seems it was a disaster waiting to happen based on all the information we have thus far.
Unruffle your feathers. I didn't say that only submersible engineers are allowed to opine. Of course anyone can. I'm implying that it's much easier for people to opine about things they're familar with. Like game controllers. That's why people keep focusing on them. Easier target. Wouldn't you agree?


This is the classic Jimbo Fisher debate.

Fire Jimbo!

TexAgs: "are you going to write the check?"

We don't need to be subject matter experts to debate flaws with the sub
Holy cow, did you even read my reply? The question was why is everyone complaining about the game controllers. The answer is because everyone is familiar with game controllers. That's all. Carry on.



Ohhhhhhh lol
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aTm2004
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In reply to McInnis 03 • 8:06a, 6/22/23
AG
I'm just a little younger but I'm with you on this. In my previous vehicle, bluetooth would be working just fine and then it would disconnect from my phone. The only way I was able to get it to reconnect was to disconnect the negative terminal of the battery for a few minutes, then it would reconnect like nothing happened.
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Bonus Hole
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8:11a, 6/22/23
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Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 8:16a, 6/22/23
AG
45-70Ag said:
If it's still intact, I'm not sure how you would ever find it 12,000 feet down and in darkness.

If it lost power could currents sweep it way off track as it descends?


Correct. Ever night dive or snorkel at night? Even near a resort with plenty of surface light your vision is limited to the flashlight beam of light so you are essentially looking down a light saber. The odds they point in the right direction at the right time to see this thing if still intact is even more remote than finding the titanic or debris field.

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
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aggielostinETX
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In reply to BadMoonRisin • 8:22a, 6/22/23
AG
BadMoonRisin said:
The same hubris that claimed the lives of thousands in 1912 has claimed another 5.

May their voyage have served as the "inspiration" to abandon this idea that immutable characteristics are preferred to experience.

I feel bad for the 4 "crew members", but the CEOs rep needs to be dragged through the mud and given the Elizabeth Holmes treatment. His negligence directly caused this.


In my first risk management class we all had to watch the video about the Challenger failure. Every one in major business should watch it.

Hubris. It always comes back to Hubris.
“A republic, if you can keep it”

AggieKatie2 said:
ETX is honestly starting to scare me a bit as someone who may be trigger happy.
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RED AG 98
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In reply to Four Seasons Landscaping • 8:31a, 6/22/23
AG
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
Ergonomics matters but that's the least of the concerns. The specifications, level of testing, level of reliability associated with these markets vary greatly. The basic safety controls in your vehicle for instance require 1000x more reliability, not only for the hardware but also software and firmwares. It's asinine they entrusted their lives to something like this, used in an unintended manner out of the original design context.

tl;dr - their reliance on a consumer-grade product for a safety-critical function is absurd and is simply an indicator that there were not serious people, and makes me seriously question the entire program.
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McInnis 03
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8:40a, 6/22/23
AG
Mike feels like he has Titan pinned from monitoring surface ships and ROV behaviors.

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cupcakesprinkles
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8:52a, 6/22/23
AG
Even if they found them right now would it take too long to bring them to the surface in regards to their oxygen supply?
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flashplayer
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8:58a, 6/22/23
AG
From what I had read yesterday their oxygen supply was to run out in the early hours of this morning. So they're already too late.
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chase128
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In reply to cupcakesprinkles • 8:59a, 6/22/23
AG
cupcakesprinkles said:
Even if they found them right now would it take too long to bring them to the surface in regards to their oxygen supply?
Probably.

Don't forget they have been underwater since Sunday morning. They didn't take much food and water with them. We don't know if they lost power and if they have means of staying warm. We don't know what kind of CO2 scrubbing equipment they have on board, either.
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BadMoonRisin
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In reply to aggielostinETX • 9:07a, 6/22/23
AG
Truth, Lies, and O-rings is also a fantastic book.
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techno-ag
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In reply to chase128 • 9:08a, 6/22/23
AG
chase128 said:
cupcakesprinkles said:
Even if they found them right now would it take too long to bring them to the surface in regards to their oxygen supply?
Probably.

Don't forget they have been underwater since Sunday morning. They didn't take much food and water with them. We don't know if they lost power and if they have means of staying warm. We don't know what kind of CO2 scrubbing equipment they have on board, either.
I posted a link to a 1973 mini sub rescue. The guys remained motionless and didn't talk. They managed to stretch their air supply another 12 hours that way. But yeah it doesn't look good right now. God bless.
Trump will fix it.
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ReloadAg
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9:42a, 6/22/23
AG
I'd be shocked if the sub was anything other than the size of a beer can right now. These guys have been dead for days.
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PA24
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9:48a, 6/22/23
AG
The hatch is made of titanium
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agracer
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In reply to Bonus Hole • 9:51a, 6/22/23
AG
AgsOnDeck said:
I think the 96hr Oxygen thing is false. I doubt the people who built this sub have any clue how much Oxygen is available for 5 people operating that thing.
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Mary Bailey
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In reply to Bonus Hole • 9:56a, 6/22/23
Who is Moon?
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Sea Speed
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In reply to agracer • 10:00a, 6/22/23
AG
agracer said:
AgsOnDeck said:
I think the 96hr Oxygen thing is false. I doubt the people who built this sub have any clue how much Oxygen is available for 5 people operating that thing.


Just like SCBAs, what they are rated for and what you actually get out of them are 2 completely different things.
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bmks270
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10:01a, 6/22/23
AG
What shocks me is the crew that operated this sub were seemingly okay with the repeated communications failures and didn't upgrade them. I get the CEO was a narcissist con man, but kind of surprising the crew didn't refuse to operate this thing after losing communications on so many dives. Did this not concern them that eventually the comms link may not return?

And the lights flickering on this thing as in the YouTubers video?

I'm really curious about the design of their ballast release mechanism and control. If it's anything like the level of other aspects of this craft, it wasn't engineered well. Nothing on this seems to have been well thought out.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Mary Bailey • 10:01a, 6/22/23
AG
Mary Bailey said:
Who is Moon?


Someone on Twitter without a blue check.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to Four Seasons Landscaping • 10:01a, 6/22/23
AG
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Why do people keep ****ting on the video game controller thing?

I promise Sony or Microsoft spent more on the ergonomic design of those things than this entire mission cost.
I think its two parts. The low hanging fruit commentary is just, 'ha ha! its a controller!' and that is a silly critique. Because game controllers are intuitively designed. The second part is a more serious critique about their whole controls design.

There is nothing about Sony/Microsoft or Logitech's design that is built around the ethos, 'if this doesn't work we die.' And I guarantee you there is nothing about the rest of that control system that has the same ethos.

Where are the redundant systems? Backup battery power? The space shuttle had 3 computers running redundant controls and sensors on one architecture and a whole other system interpreting the signals on another architecture and then the controls systems would vote.

Electronics ratings for temperature, pressure, and shock? The cost for electronics boards has an eye watering curve to it the higher performance requirements you need. Again, nothing about this guy's design makes it seem like he considered that 'investing' in his safety instead of just seeing the cost.



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