aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Once trash, always trash.

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They never learn because they keep getting away with it.

Man, if I had tried that crap in the 80s, would have lost my license in federal courts if not state courts, too.

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As in the Gilded Age, we live in a time where ethics take a backseat to an amoral situation where party comes before the health of your neighbor, your nation, and your oath of office.

Biden is the poster child for this age of corruption. But he would not be there without the efforts of a bunch of people who share his perversions and his lack of moral backbone. Pigs at the trough, from Romney to Clinton to Weissmann, are the reason we are now closer to Venezuela in our approach than the one the Founding Fathers intended for us with the Constitution.

Stlkofta said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Once trash, always trash.

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They never learn because they keep getting away with it.

Man, if I had tried that crap in the 80s, would have lost my license in federal courts if not state courts, too.

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As in the Gilded Age, we live in a time where ethics take a backseat to an amoral situation where party comes before the health of your neighbor, your nation, and your oath of office.

Biden is the poster child for this age of corruption. But he would not be there without the efforts of a bunch of people who share his perversions and his lack of moral backbone. Pigs at the trough, from Romney to Clinton to Weissmann, are the reason we are now closer to Venezuela in our approach than the one the Founding Fathers intended for us with the Constitution.

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When the judiciary is lost, we are gone

I tend to agree with you on this.

I think Trump rides this until the end.

Rides this case till the wheels fall off.

New breakdown:

A) The United States puts Trump in Jail

B) The case is rendered moot by operation of nature

C) We live to see a final disposition of this case; Trump doesn't go to jail or is eventually released from jail on constitutional grounds, legal error or other operation of law.

D) Other

Even Trump's own former attorney believes Trump is guilty of breaking the law in the Mar A Lago documents case:

Ex-Trump lawyer says evidence against him 'overwhelming' in Mar-a-Lago case
Ty Cobb, who represented Trump in Mueller investigation, says classified documents case is 'tight' after new charges filed

Martin Pengelly in Washington Fri 28 Jul 2023 10.30 EDT
A former Trump White House lawyer said the evidence against the former president over his handling of classified documents was now "overwhelming" and would "last an antiquity", after new charges were filed in the case on Thursday.

"I think this original indictment was engineered to last a thousand years and now this superseding indictment will last an antiquity," Ty Cobb told CNN. "This is such a tight case, the evidence is so overwhelming."

In June, the special counsel Jack Smith indicted Trump on 37 counts regarding his handling of classified records after leaving the White House.

On Thursday, in a superseding indictment filed in a Florida court, four more charges were outlined. A second Trump staffer, the Mar-a-Lago maintenance worker Carlos De Oliveira, was charged, alongside Walt Nauta, Trump's valet. Nauta previously pleaded not guilty.

Trump was accused of attempting to destroy evidence and inducing someone else to destroy evidence. He also faces a new count under the Espionage Act, for keeping a document about US plans to attack Iran which he memorably discussed on tape.

Trump denies all wrongdoing, in the documents case and in other cases including the criminal investigation in New York in which he faces 34 charges relating to hush-money payments to an adult film star.

On Thursday night, on his Truth Social platform, the former president complained about another investigation, of Joe Biden's own retention of classified material. Trump also called Smith "deranged".

A spokesperson called the new charges "nothing more than a continued desperate and flailing attempt" by the Biden administration to "harass" Trump and "those around him".


On Thursday, Trump told the conservative radio host John Fredericks he had handed over security video footage prosecutors now say he ordered deleted.

"These were security tapes," he said. "We handed them over to them … I'm not even sure what they're saying."

Smith is also expected to indict Trump over his attempted election subversion. So are prosecutors in Georgia, regarding the former president's attempts to overturn his defeat by Biden there.

Found liable for sexual abuse and defamation against the writer E Jean Carroll, and fined about $5m, Trump also faces investigations of his business affairs.

But his legal problems have not dented his popularity with his party. In polling regarding the Republican nomination for president in 2024, Trump has clear leads in early voting states and is approximately 30 points ahead of his nearest challenger, the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, in national polling.

Trump told Fredericks he will not end his campaign even if he is convicted and sentenced.

"They went after two fine employees yesterday, fine people," Trump said. "They're trying to intimidate people so that people go out and make up lies about me. Because I did nothing wrong."

Cobb represented Trump during the investigation by another special counsel, Robert Mueller, into Russian election interference in the 2016 election and links between Trump and Moscow. The attorney later told the Atlantic he did not regret working for Trump, saying: "I believed then and now I worked for the country."

On Thursday, he told CNN: "It's very difficult to imagine how Trump said that his lawyers met with Jack Smith today to explain to him that he hadn't done anything wrong [Trump's claim in the election subversion case], on the same day that Jack Smith produces this evidence of overwhelming evidence of additional wrongdoing.

"So this is, I think, par for the course."

Cobb also said he was sure Trump had been advised by his own lawyers "not to destroy, move [documents] or obstruct this grand jury subpoena in any way.

"So this is Trump going not just behind the back of the prosecutors, this is Trump going behind the back of his own lawyers and dealing with two people" Nauta and De Oliveira "who are extremely loyal"

Did you stay up all night hugging a print out of this article?

So Ty Cobb, who has nothing to do with this case, somehow has unique insight on this case. Makes sense.

What also makes perfect sense is an indictment that will last a 1000 years. Is that how we measure the quality of a case against someone, but whether the indictment will last a millennia and that superseding indictments last until antiquity?

I hope the indictments against Biden will last for 3000 years and then we will see who was better.

Is the indictment of presidential candidate considered subversion of the political process?

fka ftc said:

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Did you stay up all night hugging a print out of this article?

So Ty Cobb, who has nothing to do with this case, somehow has unique insight on this case. Makes sense.

What also makes perfect sense is an indictment that will last a 1000 years. Is that how we measure the quality of a case against someone, but whether the indictment will last a millennia and that superseding indictments last until antiquity?

I hope the indictments against Biden will last for 3000 years and then we will see who was better.

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No no you don't understand, ty Cobb worked in Trumps White House. So he must be a hard core ultra-MAGA attorney. Because we all know leftists weren't all over the White House staff leaking every time Trump farted or burped in a racist manner.

eric76 said:

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Im Gipper said:

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The allegation (no proof presented at this point) is that Trump asked others to destroy video tapes that were subpoenaed by the grand jury. If true, that's a crime. Plain and simple.

But given the mountains for false allegations we've heard made against Trump, I will assume Trump innocent of this also until proven otherwise.

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Innocent until proven guilty, of course.

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That has NOT been your mantra since Trump started running...

A former president and the current leading presidential candidate with ongoing federal criminal indictments in two different districts.

I say again,

What a time to be alive!

Anybody on here any closer to coming to Jesus on this?

Just a closer walk with Thee
Grant it, Jesus, is my plea
Daily walking close to Thee
Let it be, dear Lord, let it be

Ag with kids said:

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eric76 said:

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Im Gipper said:

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The allegation (no proof presented at this point) is that Trump asked others to destroy video tapes that were subpoenaed by the grand jury. If true, that's a crime. Plain and simple.

But given the mountains for false allegations we've heard made against Trump, I will assume Trump innocent of this also until proven otherwise.

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Innocent until proven guilty, of course.

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That has NOT been your mantra since Trump started running...

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Guilty and Not Guilty are legal please and verdicts.

As individuals, we are free to believe that someone did or did not do something illegal.

I have had very definite opinions on a wide variety of cases over the year but I have always tried to keep my thoughts about whether or not the defendant committed the crime from crossing the line into claiming a legal verdict.

Couple more months and they gon be indictin' Trump for cuttin' the heads off parking meters.

Vivek says this:




After his statement:

🚨 Just filed in DC -

Here is the Donald Trump indictmenthttps://t.co/9rSi6COhuv

— Techno Fog (@Techno_Fog) August 1, 2023

Summary for the smooth brains amongst us:

Trump indicted for conspiracy to defraud the United States;

Trump indicted for impeding the Congressional Jan 6th investigation; and

Trump indicted for CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE RIGHT TO VOTE!

What a time to be alive baby! What -- a -- time -- to -- be -- alive!

Thread needs a little theme song to guide our spirits in these trying times.

Down to the Banana Republics
Down to the tropical sun
Go the expatriated American
Hopin' to find some fun

Some of them are running tons of ganja
Some are running from the IRS

I was waiting for this tell. Thanks for making it clear to America, Mr. Smith, that you were unserious. https://t.co/8PQuaFHUmh pic.twitter.com/MS1K1yLJry

— Margot Cleveland (@ProfMJCleveland) August 2, 2023

Something very concerning about Special Counsel Smith’s legal theories -

Even if widespread election fraud were 100% proven, Trump could still be charged for asking VP Pence to reject or send to the states Biden’s electoral votes.

— Techno Fog (@Techno_Fog) August 2, 2023

The Trump case has been assigned to U.S. District Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, according to the court docket. Chutkan, an Obama appointee, is the only federal judge in Washington, D.C., who has sentenced Jan. 6 defendants to sentences longer than the government had requested.

— Jack Poso 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) August 1, 2023

Free speech has been indicted. Read this section of the indictment.

It acknowledges that Trump has the right to say, even falsely, the results were fraudulent and claim he won the election. That’s protected by the First Amendment.

But the indictment says he can’t lie about… pic.twitter.com/tKDBP93j3Z

— Will Cain (@willcain) August 1, 2023

Hey deep state, be careful what you wish for!

“We now have the ability in this case to issue our own subpoenas. And we will relitigate every single issue in the 2020 Election. It gives President Trump an opportunity that he has never had before, which is to have subpoena power.” pic.twitter.com/MWorFb9rF7

— Liz Harrington (@realLizUSA) August 1, 2023

There may not be a point to any further legal analysis on this.

We so off the rails with this it's like deconstructing blueprints that use imperial measurements and the metric system at the same time.

Mid-2023 and we've gone full clown world.

will25u said:

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Free speech has been indicted. Read this section of the indictment.

It acknowledges that Trump has the right to say, even falsely, the results were fraudulent and claim he won the election. That’s protected by the First Amendment.

But the indictment says he can’t lie about… pic.twitter.com/tKDBP93j3Z

— Will Cain (@willcain) August 1, 2023

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Indicted for lying in public statements?

Special Counsel Jack Smith just issued the first criminal indictment of alleged disinformation in my view. If you take a red pen to all of the material presumptively protected by the First Amendment, you can reduce much of the indictment to haiku...

— Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) August 1, 2023

...The press conference held by Smith only deepened the unease for some of us. Smith railed against the January 6th riot and made it sound like he was indicting Trump on incitement. He didn't. The disconnect was glaring and concerning.

— Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) August 1, 2023

Can The People of The United States as a collective be the object of a conspiracy to commit fraud?

Yeah you can conspire to defraud an agency of the government like the IRS, for example, but can you argue in good faith that an individual can conspire to defraud The People of the United States as an entity?

Are they claiming that the then acting President of the United states conspired to commit fraud against the nation as a sovereign?

What say all you jailhouse lawyers with your cracker-jack box law degrees?

Everybody on here wants to talk about banker's boxes full of golf hats, worthless papers and surveillance tapes, but it's deathly silent when legitimate questions are asked.

will25u said:

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Hey deep state, be careful what you wish for!

“We now have the ability in this case to issue our own subpoenas. And we will relitigate every single issue in the 2020 Election. It gives President Trump an opportunity that he has never had before, which is to have subpoena power.” pic.twitter.com/MWorFb9rF7

— Liz Harrington (@realLizUSA) August 1, 2023

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This judge will never allow that. She is an announced Trump hater. She will never afford an ounce of due process. That is not her job. Her job is to hamstring Trump's defende until after the election.

Does this country have the fortitude for 3 to 4 more years of Trump litigation?

They started investigating Donald Trump in 2015 with the wiretapping of Trump's campaign headquarters under an alleged FISA warrant.

The investigation into Donald Trump began the instant he took office.

The initial investigation lead up to a failed vote on impeachment in 2017. Later Trump would become the only president to be impeached twice. And remarkably in a single 4-year term.

Trump's been out of office for coming up on 3-years.

These cases against Trump may reach a final resolution no sooner than 3-years from now. By almost all accounts.

So in total, the People of the United States of America will have investigated and litigated against Donald Trump for more than a decade.

Prior to 2015, Donald Trump was one of America's most beloved persons. He was a regular guest on every talk show there ever was. Trump was known to be friends with Oprah and Mike Tyson. Possibly the two most beloved and well known figures in recent history. A celebrated guest of every late night talk show host for decades. Was on the WWE. Screen Actors Guild member. Sold 1.1 million copies of his book that was also recommended reading in MBA programs nationwide. Attended Chelsea Clinton's wedding. And had a hit tv show with 20 million weekly viewers.

And now we are looking at the imminent realization that Donald Trump will have been gone after for more than a decade. A single man will have completely captured the focus and attention of America for more than a decade. Gabriel will blow his horn before the people pursuing Donald Trump get done with Donald Trump.

A truly unbelievable account of events.

You wouldn't even believe it, if you weren't there to see it.

The judge in the Trump J6 case - an Obama appointee and donor - worked at the same law firm as Hunter Biden.

This is the level of contempt they have for the Constitution, the rule of law - and YOU. pic.twitter.com/ZyqZ3YNTA8

— Monica Crowley (@MonicaCrowley) August 2, 2023

there is another thread for that case. can we try to keep this one on the mar-a-lago case?

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Can The People of The United States as a collective be the object of a conspiracy to commit fraud?

Yeah you can conspire to defraud an agency of the government like the IRS, for example, but can you argue in good faith that an individual can conspire to defraud The People of the United States as an entity?

Are they claiming that the then acting President of the United states conspired to commit fraud against the nation as a sovereign?

What say all you jailhouse lawyers with your cracker-jack box law degrees?

Everybody on here wants to talk about banker's boxes full of golf hats, worthless papers and surveillance tapes, but it's deathly silent when legitimate questions are asked.

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For the purpose of the statute, "United States" is a catch-all term meaning any part or function of the federal government.

BMX Bandit said:

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there is another thread for that case. can we try to keep this one on the mar-a-lago case?

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I suppose so... But it is related to the documents case because Smith initially started looking into documents but because his mandate is so broad has looked elsewhere.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Can The People of The United States as a collective be the object of a conspiracy to commit fraud?

Yeah you can conspire to defraud an agency of the government like the IRS, for example, but can you argue in good faith that an individual can conspire to defraud The People of the United States as an entity?

Are they claiming that the then acting President of the United states conspired to commit fraud against the nation as a sovereign?

What say all you jailhouse lawyers with your cracker-jack box law degrees?

Everybody on here wants to talk about banker's boxes full of golf hats, worthless papers and surveillance tapes, but it's deathly silent when legitimate questions are asked.

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For the purpose of the statute, "United States" is a catch-all term meaning any part or function of the federal government.

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Is it possible to defraud 'any part or function of the federal government'?

As a matter of legal theory and constitutional law, is it even possible to defraud the federal government in that way that they are alleging?

That's what I'm struggling to understand.

Someone help me out, because I'm just a repairman. I fell in some ice and later got thawed out by your scientists. Your world frightens and confuses me.

Is it constitutional for a former President of the United States be charged with criminal conspiracy to corruptly obstruct and impede a congressional proceeding when the alleged act occurred during the course of the presidency?

This seems like a political question.

And it also seems like a separation of powers issue.

This also seems like an issue that should immediately make its way to an appellate court.

Trump's best move here is to move to stay both cases in district courts pending interlocutory review on the basis of exigent and unprecedented circumstances.

The district court doesn't need to make a record or take evidence under these circumstances. We are looking at a half dozen questions of law for the court to decide.This case needs to be immediately dealt with in an appellate court.

Trump should move for an immediate stay and pursue this strategy to the bitter end.

If the district courts refuse to stay the case. Then Trump should file some sort of petition for emergency relief in the appellate courts.

Put both appellate courts in a position to say no.

And if they do say no, then immediately file an emergency writ in the Supreme Court.

The end game is to put the Supreme Court in a position to say no.

That's a winning strategy.

Trump has got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Trump take heed! The 'Stat Monitor Repairman plan' is your only hope!

LOL I remember when Trump had his most important first decision to make as the primary nominee in 2016 and chose...

Mike Pence.

who MAGA loved.

I'm old enough to remember Trump praising Pence nearly every single press conference they had together. I'm old enough to remember when Trump APPOINTED PENCE THE POINT MAN ON ADMINISTRATION COVID RESPONSE. I remember when Donald Trump chose to run for re-election with Mike Pence in 2020.

That was less than 3 years ago.

Pence role in Trump indictment sparks fresh tensions in 2024 race
Story by Marianne LeVine, Josh Dawsey, Michael Scherer 8h ago
Jordan Gale for The Washington Post

Former vice president Mike Pence's extensive grand jury testimony, a historic rebuke of a former president detailed in the sweeping indictment of Donald Trump released this week, sparked new tensions in the Republican presidential race, with the once-loyal Pence sharpening his criticism of his former running mate and drawing stern blowback in his long-shot bid.

The day after the Justice Department released the 45-page indictment that detailed Trump's unsuccessful efforts to pressure Pence to reverse his 2020 loss, Pence told reporters in Indiana that the former president was "surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear."

Shortly after the indictment was released Tuesday, the former vice president who was referenced repeatedly in the charging document issued a statement saying that Trump had put himself over the Constitution and that his rival's "candidacy means more talk about January 6th and more distractions."

Trump, after taking a comparatively softer tone about Pence at a rally over the weekend, criticized Pence on his Truth Social website Wednesday, noting the former vice president's struggles to gain traction in the race. "I feel badly for Mike Pence, who is attracting no crowds, enthusiasm, or loyalty from people who, as a member of the Trump Administration, should be loving him," he wrote.

The exchange marked the latest chapter in a remarkable fissure between the two men, whose political trajectories have diverted sharply since Jan. 6, 2021, when a pro-Trump mob violently stormed the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to interrupt the certification of the 2020 presidential election, over which Pence presided. Until that day, Pence had largely been a loyal backer of Trump.

LMCane said:

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LOL I remember when Trump had his most important first decision to make as the primary nominee in 2016 and chose...

Mike Pence.

who MAGA loved.

I'm old enough to remember Trump praising Pence nearly every single press conference they had together. I'm old enough to remember when Trump APPOINTED PENCE THE POINT MAN ON ADMINISTRATION COVID RESPONSE. I remember when Donald Trump chose to run for re-election with Mike Pence in 2020.

That was less than 3 years ago.

Pence role in Trump indictment sparks fresh tensions in 2024 race
Story by Marianne LeVine, Josh Dawsey, Michael Scherer 8h ago
Jordan Gale for The Washington Post

Former vice president Mike Pence's extensive grand jury testimony, a historic rebuke of a former president detailed in the sweeping indictment of Donald Trump released this week, sparked new tensions in the Republican presidential race, with the once-loyal Pence sharpening his criticism of his former running mate and drawing stern blowback in his long-shot bid.

The day after the Justice Department released the 45-page indictment that detailed Trump's unsuccessful efforts to pressure Pence to reverse his 2020 loss, Pence told reporters in Indiana that the former president was "surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear."

Shortly after the indictment was released Tuesday, the former vice president who was referenced repeatedly in the charging document issued a statement saying that Trump had put himself over the Constitution and that his rival's "candidacy means more talk about January 6th and more distractions."

Trump, after taking a comparatively softer tone about Pence at a rally over the weekend, criticized Pence on his Truth Social website Wednesday, noting the former vice president's struggles to gain traction in the race. "I feel badly for Mike Pence, who is attracting no crowds, enthusiasm, or loyalty from people who, as a member of the Trump Administration, should be loving him," he wrote.

The exchange marked the latest chapter in a remarkable fissure between the two men, whose political trajectories have diverted sharply since Jan. 6, 2021, when a pro-Trump mob violently stormed the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to interrupt the certification of the 2020 presidential election, over which Pence presided. Until that day, Pence had largely been a loyal backer of Trump.

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I cannot tell if you are parroting a bad Madonna song with "I remember" or just rambling somewhat incoherent regarding Trump and Pence.

Pence cheering on the political persecution of Trump by a sitting POTUS who has weaponized the DOJ against their political enemies is an automatic disqualifier for Pence. What a shameful man. Lump him in with Barr and other spineless traitors whose TDS seems to be amplified by what can only be jealousy of Trump and his accomplishments.

fka ftc said:

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LMCane said:

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LOL I remember when Trump had his most important first decision to make as the primary nominee in 2016 and chose...

Mike Pence.

who MAGA loved.

I'm old enough to remember Trump praising Pence nearly every single press conference they had together. I'm old enough to remember when Trump APPOINTED PENCE THE POINT MAN ON ADMINISTRATION COVID RESPONSE. I remember when Donald Trump chose to run for re-election with Mike Pence in 2020.

That was less than 3 years ago.

Pence role in Trump indictment sparks fresh tensions in 2024 race
Story by Marianne LeVine, Josh Dawsey, Michael Scherer 8h ago
Jordan Gale for The Washington Post

Former vice president Mike Pence's extensive grand jury testimony, a historic rebuke of a former president detailed in the sweeping indictment of Donald Trump released this week, sparked new tensions in the Republican presidential race, with the once-loyal Pence sharpening his criticism of his former running mate and drawing stern blowback in his long-shot bid.

The day after the Justice Department released the 45-page indictment that detailed Trump's unsuccessful efforts to pressure Pence to reverse his 2020 loss, Pence told reporters in Indiana that the former president was "surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear."

Shortly after the indictment was released Tuesday, the former vice president who was referenced repeatedly in the charging document issued a statement saying that Trump had put himself over the Constitution and that his rival's "candidacy means more talk about January 6th and more distractions."

Trump, after taking a comparatively softer tone about Pence at a rally over the weekend, criticized Pence on his Truth Social website Wednesday, noting the former vice president's struggles to gain traction in the race. "I feel badly for Mike Pence, who is attracting no crowds, enthusiasm, or loyalty from people who, as a member of the Trump Administration, should be loving him," he wrote.

The exchange marked the latest chapter in a remarkable fissure between the two men, whose political trajectories have diverted sharply since Jan. 6, 2021, when a pro-Trump mob violently stormed the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to interrupt the certification of the 2020 presidential election, over which Pence presided. Until that day, Pence had largely been a loyal backer of Trump.

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I cannot tell if you are parroting a bad Madonna song with "I remember" or just rambling somewhat incoherent regarding Trump and Pence.

Pence cheering on the political persecution of Trump by a sitting POTUS who has weaponized the DOJ against their political enemies is an automatic disqualifier for Pence. What a shameful man. Lump him in with Barr and other spineless traitors whose TDS seems to be amplified by what can only be jealousy of Trump and his accomplishments.

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Pence and Barr correctly chose the constitution over a fascist failed dictator.