Dan Scott said:

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If Trump is sent to jail, he'll appeal. So that means he'll have access to his lawyer right? Can he still run for president with his lawyer distributing his message. And pardon himself once elected. If Biden won campaigning from his basement, Trump can win campaigning from jail.

If Trump wins the nomination from jail, pretty dewshy move by Biden not to pardon him and let the American people hear from him and debate.

Fun to think about

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No worries. Donald will be motioning and appealing to delay until after the election and his appointed judge will help him along the way. Besides, he will never allow himself to actually go to jail if that's the ultimate verdict. His karma will help him figure something else out for his fate.

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In my feeble mind, seems that until a challenge is made in court the legality of an EO seems undetermined. They seemingly are using an EO for something other than what is was intended for to harass President Trump.

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I know this crap seems to be more complicated than it should be but the difference on the EO that I and others were discussing, was particular to Trump's situation. And it had no criminal penalties attached.As EOs generally do not have as to Americans and foreigners within our physical jurisdiction, with the exception of diplomatic immunity.

Regardless of any EOs or the PRA you can't show off admittedly non declassified, classified war planning documents to randos.

Can you leave them laying around in a house occupied by a drug addict that was kicked out of the Navy, falsified a gun application and has more than 100 Suspicious Activity Reports?

jja79 said:

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Can you leave them laying around in a house occupied by a drug addict that was kicked out of the Navy, falsified a gun application and has more than 100 Suspicious Activity Reports?

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War planning documents, not whatever momentos a senator took home.

But sure nobody gives a single **** what happens to Joe or Hunter Biden.

I think a lot of people care about what the single most corrupt politician in America's history has done. I'm only 66 so I haven't seen it all but Joe Biden wins for most corrupt iny lifetime.

The allegation is Biden got $5-$10mm? Okay, lock him up, now to Trump and the Kushner's two beez.

As for the gun application… there are probably thousands of people on this very site who smoke marijuana and have lied on a gun application.

jrdaustin said:

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eric76 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Under Executive Order 13526, Trump was required to have a waiver of the "need to know" requirement to access classified materials but according to the indictment, he never obtained any such waiver.

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And what are the sanctions for violating said EO?

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(c) Sanctions may include reprimand, suspension without pay, removal, termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access to classified information, or other sanctions in accordance with applicable law and agency regulation.

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LINK

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Wow. So in your mind that would include "put in jail and throw away the key"?

I'm having a hard time believing we grew up in the same country.

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Where did I say "throw away the key"?

I seriously doubt that Trump will spend time in prison. That does not mean that he should avoid prosecution altogether.

Trump being indicted and vowing to fight till the end is the absolute best thing to ever happen democrats.

If Trump fights until the end would 100% secure a democrat president in '24.

the_batman26 said:

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Precisely. People who didn't, fortunately, sit through an Admin Law class read something foreboding like "Executive Order" and think it's this all powerful thing, when it's not.

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It is instructions for the Executive Branch of the government and does not carry the weight of statutory law. While it does not prescribe prison sentences for violating it, it does explicitly leave the possibility of that open under laws passed by Congress.

fka ftc said:

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A sitting POTUS is not bound by any laws of the United States except as provided for under the US Constitution explicitly. Any alleged violation of those laws for a sitting POTUS is the impeachment process.

POTUS is the Executive Branch. He is not head of it, he IS the Executive. As such, he is not bound by any of his rules he creates or that were created prior to him assuming office.

You may not like those facts, but its clear as day in the US Constitution. In fact, its is that way to prevent the sort of ****nannery we are seeing now.

However, since these allegations of inappropriate handling of incumbent POTUS records has occurred after he was no longer in office, there will be a debate on whether the PRA supersedes the Espionage Act. That will likely wind up at SCOTUS and for the sake of our Country then DJT should prevail.

Quit watching CNN to get your talking points folks. We are in brand new territory and the most literal interpretation should prevail. If Dems want to block Trump from running, charge him with Treason, impeach & convict him, of shut the ever living f up for once.

We have elections for a reason. Jailing your political opponents is sort of counter-productive to democratic norms and elections.

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Trump is no longer the President. He had the opportunity to issue a new Executive Order, but he did not do so. As a result, the rules of Obama's Executive Order remains unchanged.

fka ftc said:

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Deference to incumbent POTUS (in this case Trump).

It's a complicated history of the PRMPA, Nixon, SCOTUS ruling on Nixon, the PRA, then EOs of varying degree and conflict from Reagan on.

There have been several cases. Believe all give deference to incumbent POTUS.

I am not teaching you a glass on this. You can research yourself and form your own conclusions.

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Trump is hardly the incumbent President.

I really don't understand why posters here are arguing all of this pra nonsense that isn't applicable to the charges.

fka ftc said:

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Deference to incumbent POTUS (in this case Trump).

It's a complicated history of the PRMPA, Nixon, SCOTUS ruling on Nixon, the PRA, then EOs of varying degree and conflict from Reagan on.

There have been several cases. Believe all give deference to incumbent POTUS.

I am not teaching you a glass on this. You can research yourself and form your own conclusions.

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I have

eric76 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Deference to incumbent POTUS (in this case Trump).

It's a complicated history of the PRMPA, Nixon, SCOTUS ruling on Nixon, the PRA, then EOs of varying degree and conflict from Reagan on.

There have been several cases. Believe all give deference to incumbent POTUS.

I am not teaching you a glass on this. You can research yourself and form your own conclusions.

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Trump is hardly the incumbent President.

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And Joe was senator

fka ftc said:

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I will caveat, these are my conclusions and I am happy to listen to people who have info to the contrary as there are lots of assumptions, but we are way past precedent on this stuff. Way.

So almost all case law will not apply. It's going to get down to what each justice at SCOTUS believes about these records.

Judging by their prior **** shows, they likely reach some bizarre middle ground then punt it back for "Congress to solve".

Congress should, but it should be done in the form of a constitutional amendment put to vote by the states / public.

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Tump could easily be 100 by the time a Constitutional Amendment is passed by the Legislature and the States and becomes law.

A Constitutional Amendment giving former Presidents unlimited ability to break the law would probably have a tough time being passed by the states. Remember, the Amendment would also apply to Democrats such as Clinton, Obama, and Biden as well as it would to Trump.

The evil globalist movement attacking the United States has a huge problem, 50% of the people do not agree, and they are armed. In history, it is unprecedented.

classified markings vs. classified documents. It's kind of a big difference, don't you think?

MagnumLoad said:

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eric76 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Deference to incumbent POTUS (in this case Trump).

It's a complicated history of the PRMPA, Nixon, SCOTUS ruling on Nixon, the PRA, then EOs of varying degree and conflict from Reagan on.

There have been several cases. Believe all give deference to incumbent POTUS.

I am not teaching you a glass on this. You can research yourself and form your own conclusions.

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Trump is hardly the incumbent President.

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And Joe was senator

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Convene a grand jury and indict him. It's no skin off my nose.

That said, what Biden did as a Senator has no bearing on whether or not Trump was acting legally.

eric76 said:

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MagnumLoad said:

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eric76 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Deference to incumbent POTUS (in this case Trump).

It's a complicated history of the PRMPA, Nixon, SCOTUS ruling on Nixon, the PRA, then EOs of varying degree and conflict from Reagan on.

There have been several cases. Believe all give deference to incumbent POTUS.

I am not teaching you a glass on this. You can research yourself and form your own conclusions.

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Trump is hardly the incumbent President.

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And Joe was senator

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Convene a grand jury and indict him. It's no skin off my nose.

That said, what Biden did as a Senator has no bearing on whether or not Trump was acting legally.

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Again, as we saw with the Carter Page fiasco, declassified documents can still retain classified markings. Look at the indictment. Jack Smith doesn't even have the documents in hand as to the tape of Trump "waving a classified document" around. This is all going to blow up in Jack Smith's face.

eric76 said:

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MagnumLoad said:

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eric76 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Deference to incumbent POTUS (in this case Trump).

It's a complicated history of the PRMPA, Nixon, SCOTUS ruling on Nixon, the PRA, then EOs of varying degree and conflict from Reagan on.

There have been several cases. Believe all give deference to incumbent POTUS.

I am not teaching you a glass on this. You can research yourself and form your own conclusions.

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Trump is hardly the incumbent President.

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And Joe was senator

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Convene a grand jury and indict him. It's no skin off my nose.

That said, what Biden did as a Senator has no bearing on whether or not Trump was acting legally.

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DOJ will not. All you should need to know.

Something something secret memo can't indict a sitting president.

Maybe congress should impeach him, and then impeach trump for the same thing.

Who cares what law(s) Trump may have broken regarding classified docs. What's more serious, Biden and his son accepting bribes from foreign officials that affect where our tax dollars are going (i.e., Ukraine and China) or Trump keeping classified documents in his secured residence that have no impact on Americans. I don't care if he showed docs to someone he knew, what the hell are they going to do unless he gives it to them. They're still in his private residence. This is petty stuff compared to what Biden has done.

How do you compare Biden getting $5mm vs Kushner getting a $2beez investment from the Saudis?

My private residence isn't full of Chinese spies…

Again, the indictment makes the clear distinction as to documents with "classified markings" not specifically "classified documents"

This is a key distinction that all should know before getting caught up in hysteria. This is simply lawfare. It sounds pretty and scary but when you look at it squarely, you realize there are no teeth to its bite.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000188-a12f-db74-ab98-b3ff4de50000

You get to "classified documents" in approximately four seconds of skimming.

Manhattan said:

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How do you compare Biden getting $5mm vs Kushner getting a $2beez investment from the Saudis?

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Who do you think puts Americans at more risk from their misdealings? Biden keeps letting millions of unvetted illegal immigrants cross our border and no telling who is over here now plotting the next terrorist threat against us. But that terrible orange man is breaking the Espionage Act with mishandling of classified documents. Come on man, that's a bunch of mularky!

Illegal immigration surged in 2019 until the pandemic and people simply stopped coming.

I think the more dangerous guy is the one with nuclear secrets and war plans in his shower.

Manhattan said:

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Illegal immigration surged in 2019 until the pandemic and people simply stopped coming.

I think the more dangerous guy is the one with nuclear secrets and war plans in his shower.

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I think it's the one with nuclear codes that had his daughter in his shower

I don't know man, I think Hunter may have kept that garage door open a lot of the time, or better yet, Joe forgot to close it while he took his corvette out for a ride.

Joe would have never become president if the last one didn't suck so bad…

Manhattan said:

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https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000188-a12f-db74-ab98-b3ff4de50000

You get to "classified documents" in approximately four seconds of skimming.

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Those aren't the charges. Read the charges.