My introduction to child labor was finding a to-do list each morning over the summer of things my dad wanted done around the house and yard (we had 1.5 acres but lived on the edge of "town"),

Then one summer I got conscripted to help our church remove old glued down carpet in the church school area. No AC, just scrapers and spades for carpet that was glued down with some incredible polymer someone likely took directly from a chemical plant or NASA.

For our multi-week effort we were treated to a sandwich, some water and i think $50. To this day I don't tithe as I figured that summer was a prepayment for life plan.

Some of you have a different idea of child labor, I was going to suggest OP move to Africa as they still have child labor. One of their biggest child industries is recycling batteries and electronics.

Pushing a mower in the first world isn't child labor, it is character development.

Ag with kids said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Contrary to popular belief on it being a response to education requirements, opposition to child labor happened in response to the industrial revolution. There's a big difference between a 10-11 year old running a lawn mower over the summer with a safety bar and a 6-8 year old working 72 hours a week in a cotton mill built with no thought towards equipment guards or safety.

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And the solution to that is not to prevent kids under 16 from working at McDs. Yet here we are...

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McDs wouldn't want the liability of a 14 year old burning the **** out of themselves with a fry cooker or touching a hot griddle, and no they don't want them as a cashier either because they want someone who can work more than just the register when it's busy. Same with a lot of places. Walmart, HD, Lowe's, and many other retailers won't hire minors for much the same reasoning around liability.

Beyond that, the IR arguments for child labor centered around the economic benefit to the family and considered them as little more than sources of revenue, which ultimately drew comparisons to slavery. Modern America is not and should not be ok with a 14 year old working a $12/hr job so mom can go get a handbag or dad can get rims. If we're being honest, these are the types of parents who would put their kids to work and the type of kids everyone here is talking about. Any middle class person is supporting their kid's education and teaching them the value of work at home because they know the long term value of it, not sending them to work at McD's.

Were kids running paper routes, hanging political flyers, shining shoes, etc. back in the day making minimum wage? Or was it more of just a cash under the table thing?

what do you mean these things are different?

When we became wealthy enough that families could afford for their children not to. Status quo throughout history was that children worked on a farm as soon as they were physically able to. Only the upper class could afford to have their children sit inside and be educated.

Despite the direction this country is headed, we're still fabulously wealthy compared to most humans alive and who have ever lived. If and when that changes, attitudes towards child labor will as well

Dan Scott said:

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One of the most iconic photos from Titanic disaster is a kid selling newspaper with the heading "Titanic disaster great loss of life." In the movie Mr. smith goes to Washington, the senate has kids working for them. Kids used to be shoe shiners. One of the best was a kid named Spit Shinin Tommy, he was known to make shoes look like mirrors. He was terrific, the best, made a lot of money too.

All these kids in urban centers with nothing to do can do what poor kids had always done and work.

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When "kids" were working full time jobs (for less pay) that were better suited for adults.

Some of the best cobalt miners out there.

jeremy said:

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Started a lawn mowing business at 10 or 11. Went door to door and found customers. Had one guy sign up to let me mow his yard. He would sit on his porch in amazement and watch me push that mower (barely able to see over the top of the push bar). He was cheap, too. Wouldnt let me mow but every third week.

Made enough money that summer to go to the pool a few times and open a checking account (had to have $100) .

Been bustin' my hump ever since. Sometimes holding three jobs at a time. Work was created before the fall and is a blessing to man to give value and purpose. After the fall, work became harder and more toil. Aint nothing wrong with some work.

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Had a neighborhood kid probably about 10 years old come to our door yesterday trying to drum up business for his mowing business. He even made out a chart and had a clipboard writing down addresses and had prices that he charged each address that gave him business.

His sales pitch was..."I see that mowing companies are charging a lot to do yards in our neighborhood, I can do it for cheaper."

I declined because I mow my own yard but told him, "good luck kid, you're doing a great thing."

I posted on our neighborhood facebook page (yeah I know, facebook and particularly neighborhood pages) that whoever the parent's of this kid are, they are doing a great job. It got a ton of responses from other people in the neighborhood about how polite and ambitious this kid is and talking about their interactions with him.

You know, I know this used to be commonplace and no one got a ton of kudos back in the day for it, but we all now that it's few and far between these days to see a kid out there pounding the pavement like this. So it was nice to see it still exists.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Were kids running paper routes, hanging political flyers, shining shoes, etc. back in the day making minimum wage? Or was it more of just a cash under the table thing?

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When is "back in the day"? Minimum wage didn't start until 1938. Most of our labor regulations don't go back more than 100 years or so, so if you're talking about prior to that and why they came about, it was basically the wild west in terms of labor.

Labor laws, and especially child labor laws, didn't come about out of a vacuum, and I think a lot of people here like to idealize child labor into something it wasn't. Not every kid was a shoe shine boy or newsie. At the turn of the 20th century, plenty of kids were working in factories, mills, mines, etc, and these weren't idle teens. Almost half the country's child labor force in the early 1900's was under 12, and the rest had mostly been working since before they were 12. The dangerous and grueling work of recycling batteries and electronics in Africa mentioned above is basically what we had a lot of kids doing not that long ago.

And as much as some here are moaning and complaining about child labor laws, not a single person here would like to see their 14 year old working a cash register for 40 hours a week instead of sitting in class.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Contrary to popular belief on it being a response to education requirements, opposition to child labor happened in response to the industrial revolution. There's a big difference between a 10-11 year old running a lawn mower over the summer with a safety bar and a 6-8 year old working 72 hours a week in a cotton mill built with no thought towards equipment guards or safety.

---

And the solution to that is not to prevent kids under 16 from working at McDs. Yet here we are...

---

McDs wouldn't want the liability of a 14 year old burning the **** out of themselves with a fry cooker or touching a hot griddle, and no they don't want them as a cashier either because they want someone who can work more than just the register when it's busy. Same with a lot of places. Walmart, HD, Lowe's, and many other retailers won't hire minors for much the same reasoning around liability.

Beyond that, the IR arguments for child labor centered around the economic benefit to the family and considered them as little more than sources of revenue, which ultimately drew comparisons to slavery. Modern America is not and should not be ok with a 14 year old working a $12/hr job so mom can go get a handbag or dad can get rims. If we're being honest, these are the types of parents who would put their kids to work and the type of kids everyone here is talking about. Any middle class person is supporting their kid's education and teaching them the value of work at home because they know the long term value of it, not sending them to work at McD's.

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Fine. Pick any of the thousands of jobs that aren't going to argue semantics about the specific job and liabilities (which I knew would happen when I gave an example) and would have no problem hiring kids younger than 16 but are legally restricted from doing so...

Is dead hedge's newest sock?

I was referring to the 80's and 90's. It seemed like at some point, the newspapers phased out the paper boy route for the paper man route. Instead of seeing a 12 year old on a bike it was an 18 year old in his Camaro. Just like you'd see a grocer having his kids sweep and mopping, but now that is pretty nonexistent as well (big chains are more likely the culprit behind this one is my thinking)

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Were kids running paper routes, hanging political flyers, shining shoes, etc. back in the day making minimum wage? Or was it more of just a cash under the table thing?

---

When is "back in the day"? Minimum wage didn't start until 1938. Most of our labor regulations don't go back more than 100 years or so, so if you're talking about prior to that and why they came about, it was basically the wild west in terms of labor.

Labor laws, and especially child labor laws, didn't come about out of a vacuum, and I think a lot of people here like to idealize child labor into something it wasn't. Not every kid was a shoe shine boy or newsie. At the turn of the 20th century, plenty of kids were working in factories, mills, mines, etc, and these weren't idle teens. Almost half the country's child labor force in the early 1900's was under 12, and the rest had mostly been working since before they were 12. The dangerous and grueling work of recycling batteries and electronics in Africa mentioned above is basically what we had a lot of kids doing not that long ago.

And as much as some here are moaning and complaining about child labor laws, not a single person here would like to see their 14 year old working a cash register for 40 hours a week instead of sitting in class.

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No. But, the fact that that same kid can't do it after school for 16 hr/wk because the pendulum swung too far is bull**** too...

Child labor still exists, check out the meat packing plants in Nebraska, they were recently busted for it. It is usually children of immigrants.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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I was referring to the 80's and 90's. It seemed like at some point, the newspapers phased out the paper boy route for the paper man route. Instead of seeing a 12 year old on a bike it was an 18 year old in his Camaro. Just like you'd see a grocer having his kids sweep and mopping, but now that is pretty nonexistent as well (big chains are more likely the culprit behind this one is my thinking)

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Right. And papers are cutting down on printing. The Bryan-College Station Eagle is shrinking to three days a week.

Dan Scott said:

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One of the most iconic photos from Titanic disaster is a kid selling newspaper with the heading "Titanic disaster great loss of life." In the movie Mr. smith goes to Washington, the senate has kids working for them. Kids used to be shoe shiners. One of the best was a kid named Spit Shinin Tommy, he was known to make shoes look like mirrors. He was terrific, the best, made a lot of money too.

All these kids in urban centers with nothing to do can do what poor kids had always done and work.

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Many are from broken homes and from situations where the parents (or parent) don't work. Work isn't something they have been exposed to. We have provided way too much in terms of freebies to those who choose not to work. Today's kids are second or third generation of laziness.

I had my kids building a loading ramp this morning so I'm all for it.

6 day old account yet knows the hedge joke

They can though?

Quote:

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Texas State Law
State law states that 14- and 15- year olds:

• Can work no more than 8 hours in one day.
• Can work no more than 48 hours in one week.
• Cannot go to work before 5 a.m.
• Cannot work after 10 p.m. on a day that is followed by a school day, including summer school sessions when applicable.
• Cannot work past midnight on a day that is not followed by a school day.

Federal Law
FLSA states that 14- and 15- year olds:

• May not work during school hours.
• Can work no more than 8 hours in a day or 40 hours in a week when school is not in session.
• Can work no more than 3 hours in a day or 18 hours in a week when school is in session.
• Can work only between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. during the school year. However, between June 1 and Labor Day, they may work between the hours of 7 a.m. and 9 p.m.

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Texas Child Labor Law

dead said:

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6 day old account yet knows the hedge joke

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Is there a certain age when a sock becomes acceptable?

55 posts later and nobody commented on spit shinin tommy reference.

I've been working since I was 15. I'm 27 for reference. It's mind blowing how many people have never had a job until after they graduate college.

I have so many friends who think their jobs are way more taxing than they actually are solely because they never worked before.

Dan Scott said:

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55 posts later and nobody commented on spit shinin tommy reference.

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I said, no more shines. Maybe you didn't hear about it, you've been away a long time. They didn't go up there and tell you. I don't shine shoes anymore.

Dan Scott said:

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55 posts later and nobody commented on spit shinin tommy reference.

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Go get you're fawwwwwkin shine box!!!

When I was 11 I would mow a couple yards on my street after school.

When my granddad was 11 he was orphaned and trying to make it through the depression on his own.

bayareaag17 said:

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I've been working since I was 15. I'm 27 for reference. It's mind blowing how many people have never had a job until after they graduate college.

I have so many friends who think their jobs are way more taxing than they actually are solely because they never worked before.

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This is precisely the cause of the "we're all exploited!!" cries from student athletes in college. In college, being an athlete and a full-time student is equivalent to holding two full-time jobs. Because these athletes didn't work a part-time job after school and on weekends in HS, they have no clue what it is to work hard and balance work with school. So now they think they're 'exploited' despite receiving a full scholarship.

Most of them aren't smart enough to realize they're not even worth the value of a full scholarship.

2/11 of your posts are about me being a sock. I'm honored.

Did you get the basic subscription just so you could bypass the rookie posting limit?

dead said:

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They can though?

Quote:

---

Texas State Law
State law states that 14- and 15- year olds:

• Can work no more than 8 hours in one day.
• Can work no more than 48 hours in one week.
• Cannot go to work before 5 a.m.
• Cannot work after 10 p.m. on a day that is followed by a school day, including summer school sessions when applicable.
• Cannot work past midnight on a day that is not followed by a school day.

Federal Law
FLSA states that 14- and 15- year olds:

• May not work during school hours.
• Can work no more than 8 hours in a day or 40 hours in a week when school is not in session.
• Can work no more than 3 hours in a day or 18 hours in a week when school is in session.
• Can work only between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. during the school year. However, between June 1 and Labor Day, they may work between the hours of 7 a.m. and 9 p.m.

---

Texas Child Labor Law

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Fine. 19 hrs/wk. ILLEGAL.

JFC you people and your semantics...are you histags sock?

But...you also forgot one thing...I said younger than 16...

Can a 12 y/o or 13 y/o work sweeping floors at Gibsons? NOPE. Why - it's illegal. And the funny thing is that same kid probably works a **** ton of hrs on the ranch and learned to drive when he was 8 and can operate a tractor better than most adults...

Apologies on telling you that equal to or less than 18 hours is legal.
To further the semantics, your example was referring to a 14 year old.

Ag with kids said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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And as much as some here are moaning and complaining about child labor laws, not a single person here would like to see their 14 year old working a cash register for 40 hours a week instead of sitting in class.

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No. But, the fact that that same kid can't do it after school for 16 hr/wk because the pendulum swung too far is bull**** too...

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What's the reason behind wanting kids younger than 14 to work at a job where they get a W-2?

Edit: I realize that may come off as hostile, I genuinely would like to know your reasoning.

dead said:

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Apologies on telling you that equal to or less than 18 hours is legal.
To further the semantics, your example was referring to a 14 year old.

Ag with kids said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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And as much as some here are moaning and complaining about child labor laws, not a single person here would like to see their 14 year old working a cash register for 40 hours a week instead of sitting in class.

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No. But, the fact that that same kid can't do it after school for 16 hr/wk because the pendulum swung too far is bull**** too...

---

What's the reason behind wanting kids younger than 14 to work at a job where they get a W-2?

Edit: I realize that may come off as hostile, I genuinely would like to know your reasoning.

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The bolded is why you should NEVER offer an example on F16. Rather than argue the concept, posters will kick the **** out of minor details to show how right they are...

But, to answer your other question...Why SHOULD they be prohibited from working if they'd like to? If they would like to work (for whatever reason - not giving examples for you to derail on), they should be allowed to work.

I'm not suggesting we go back to the kids in a coal mine days, but the fact that a child 14 and younger (there, I've encompassed all of them up to and including inception) can't work at a job and learn those job skills is crap. If I can send my kid out to all sorts of other jobs at my place why can't the mom and pop store hire them to do work for them?

So, I guess...are you AGAINST them working those jobs? If so, is there a specific reason you don't want them to make money?

Does paying a child 5 dollars to clean a litter box count as child labor?

dead said:

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Apologies on telling you that equal to or less than 18 hours is legal.
To further the semantics, your example was referring to a 14 year old.

Ag with kids said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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And as much as some here are moaning and complaining about child labor laws, not a single person here would like to see their 14 year old working a cash register for 40 hours a week instead of sitting in class.

---

No. But, the fact that that same kid can't do it after school for 16 hr/wk because the pendulum swung too far is bull**** too...

---

What's the reason behind wanting kids younger than 14 to work at a job where they get a W-2?

Edit: I realize that may come off as hostile, I genuinely would like to know your reasoning.

---

My son at 11-12 knew more about computers than I ever will.

Why should he not be able to work the cashier stand at an ice cream/frozen custard stand at 13?

He would get so sick of ice cream that I wouldn't have to buy it and he would have his own money if he did want a box of bomb pops.

You don't see kids hit a lick at a snake nowadays.

They coddled as hell.

dead said:

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2/11 of your posts are about me being a sock. I'm honored.

Did you get the basic subscription just so you could bypass the rookie posting limit?

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I was referring to myself with the sock question, dumb fck. Now I understand why people relentlessly mock you on this forum.