FireAg said:

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Beat40 said:

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FireAg said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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I agree. I think it had greatest effect with those former Trump voters who maybe weren't 100% trump or were considering desantis but would be content going either way

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I fully admit that, while I prefer DeSantis's overall policy trackrecord as it relates to my vision for this nation, I have zero issue getting behind Trump because I do believe he has been wrongfully persecuted, and weaponizing the government the go after one man no matter what, no matter how false the charges, is categorically wrong... My vote in November will now be my way of standing against that...

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How many Trump supporters are supporting Trump for this reason? I am talking about before Iowa.

I've seen this sentiment on this board a fair amount.

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It is my opinion, and merely a personal opinion, that this sentiment, combined with 2020 buyer's remorse, is something that the Left did not correctly anticipate... I know that many on here have espoused that the Left went to great lengths to keep indicting Trump to sitr up his rabid mouth-frothing sycophant *drink* culist base to get them to push Trump over DeSantis because Trump was easier to beat with Biden...

Again, that, to me, is 2020 thinking... I think the Left has continued chasing Trump in an attempt to paint him as too toxic to vote for, perhaps a "constitutional crisis" just waiting to happen... Why? Trump has been polling better than DeSantis when put head-to-head against Biden for a fair amount of time now...definitely since late Summer/early Fall... So I think if the Left had there preference, they would have preferred a far-right DeSantis vs Biden because it would be very easy to make that contrast, and one of the top issues the Left was going to hammer was going to be DeSantis's 6-week abortion ban...the abortion issue played well for the Left during the 2022 midterms...

I know the popular take for awhile was "Trump can't beat Biden, but DeSantis can!" This is one of those wish-casting things I am referring to...polling has shown clearly for several months that Trump does better vs Biden than DeSantis...

The fact that Trump is polling better with independents, and in the overall, general picture right now is why I am almost expecting Biden to be replaced...I think that's the Left's nuclear plan...

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I think an argument about whether the left does or doesn't want Trump as the GOP candidate can be made both ways. Your argument might be true. They very well could be trying to make him too toxic to the voter. The other side of the argument can be convincing as well.

That wasn't really the point of my question. The absolute fact is the polling margin between Trump and DeSantis substantially grew once Trump was indicted. It's probably safe to surmise people who supported DeSantis switched their support to Trump afterward.

You laid out you prefer DeSantis because his policy and track record aligns with your vision for the nation. Now you're willing to back Trump because of what is perceived as political persecution. All well and good. The point of my question is how many DeSantis supporters who would prefer DeSantis because his policies and track record align with their vision for the nation switched their support to Trump after the indictments because of political persecution and getting some sort of vengeance?

To me, the Trump support feels much more like seeking revenge against the left rather than making the shrewd move to take the most advantage of the current state of the country.

FireAg said:

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Beat40 said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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For all his baggage, I think Trump has a real chance against Biden. Biden' term has been terrible and his energy and lucidity are cratering. He's made everything worse and he looks and acts like your chain email-forwarding grandpa who lives in a nursing home.

If the democrats do manage to swap in somebody else, and I mean anybody else, it will be a Reagan versus Mondale-esque landslide.

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I think Biden is the only candidate Trump has a shot against, but I believe it's still an uphill battle for Trump against Biden.

I'm going on record I do not think Biden will be the Dem candidate in Nov'24.

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If I assume that the Left strategy was to make Trump too toxic to vote for, and that strategy failed (at least so far), then I can't think of another way they can secure the White House for 4 more years...legally anyway...

I know if I were in their shoes, I would tab someone else last minute...

I still think the Newsom/DeSantis debate was a trial balloon for the Left...and they didn't care for the results...

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I just don't think it will be Biden. I don't think anyone on the left wants him running again, regardless of if the GOP candidate is Trump or not.

I can't speak for what the motivation has been for voters to continue flocking toward Trump over DeSantis…I think there is certainly a segment that probably identifies precisely as you described…

I think you could also argue that DeSantis's time to enter might have been better suited pre-indictments, at least to some extent? It's hard to get a full picture of exactly what happened because while DeSantis support had been growing relative to Trump prior to him entering the race and the issuing of indictments, but there was still a double-digit gap…he could never close it…. Was that directly a result of the indictments? Maybe for some…don't think it explains all of it, but it could certainly be part of the story…

But as the campaigns got closer to Iowa, I think a lot of the Trump movement had more to do with "siding with the presumed winner", along with his "pseudo-incumbency" status…. Yes, there is part of the Trump vote that favors him just because they want to right a wrong…. I just don't think it explains all of the movement toward him…

I mean, you could point at Haley's rise over DeSantis and gap closure on Trump and wonder why her campaign was NOT negatively affected by the indictments…as I noted several times, she was the only R candidate with a rise in the polls relative to Trump…so I think it's fair to say that voters inclined to vote for Haley are less positively influenced toward Trump by indictments? But you could also argue that Haley's rise in polling over DeSantis very closely aligns with a large amount of cash being infused into her campaign late in the game…

It's just hard to say for sure without asking those questions directly of voters…. Did indictments help Trump's cause? I think it's silly to argue they didn't…. Are indictments why he blew DeSantis out of the water? They probably contributed, but I see no evidence that they were THE deciding factor…

That would be an easier call if say DeSantis led Trump after announcing and then lost the lead once indictments happened…. That wasn't the series of events in this case, for better or worse…

Beat40 said:

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FireAg said:

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Beat40 said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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For all his baggage, I think Trump has a real chance against Biden. Biden' term has been terrible and his energy and lucidity are cratering. He's made everything worse and he looks and acts like your chain email-forwarding grandpa who lives in a nursing home.

If the democrats do manage to swap in somebody else, and I mean anybody else, it will be a Reagan versus Mondale-esque landslide.

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I think Biden is the only candidate Trump has a shot against, but I believe it's still an uphill battle for Trump against Biden.

I'm going on record I do not think Biden will be the Dem candidate in Nov'24.

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If I assume that the Left strategy was to make Trump too toxic to vote for, and that strategy failed (at least so far), then I can't think of another way they can secure the White House for 4 more years...legally anyway...

I know if I were in their shoes, I would tab someone else last minute...

I still think the Newsom/DeSantis debate was a trial balloon for the Left...and they didn't care for the results...

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I just don't think it will be Biden. I don't think anyone on the left wants him running again, regardless of if the GOP candidate is Trump or not.

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Let me put it this way…I think the Left improves their chances in a victory, regardless of opponent, if they replace Biden…

It clear, to me anyway, why Haley out performed desantis in regards relative to trump

1. She is different whereas most people consider desantis and Trump having roughly the same policies

2. She's more moderate which allows the more moderate end of the party a person to support. Especially in areas like abortion. The suburban housewife identifies with her.

3. She's a woman, which brings its own subset of voters

4. She's the next biggest victim to trump. When she's the only female on stage and vivek and desantis were ripping her, it creates a moment of sympathy. She can apraly that into a being bullied status. We've already seen her this week drop the race card.

FireAg said:

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I can't speak for what the motivation has been for voters to continue flocking toward Trump over DeSantis…I think there is certainly a segment that probably identifies precisely as you described…

I think you could also argue that DeSantis's time to enter might have been better suited pre-indictments, at least to some extent? It's hard to get a full picture of exactly what happened because while DeSantis support had been growing relative to Trump prior to him entering the race and the issuing of indictments, but there was still a double-digit gap…he could never close it…. Was that directly a result of the indictments? Maybe for some…don't think it explains all of it, but it could certainly be part of the story…

But as the campaigns got closer to Iowa, I think a lot of the Trump movement had more to do with "siding with the presumed winner", along with his "pseudo-incumbency" status…. Yes, there is part of the Trump vote that favors him just because they want to right a wrong…. I just don't think it explains all of the movement toward him…

I mean, you could point at Haley's rise over DeSantis and gap closure on Trump and wonder why her campaign was NOT negatively affected by the indictments…as I noted several times, she was the only R candidate with a rise in the polls relative to Trump…so I think it's fair to say that voters inclined to vote for Haley are less positively influenced toward Trump by indictments? But you could also argue that Haley's rise in polling over DeSantis very closely aligns with a large amount of cash being infused into her campaign late in the game…

It's just hard to say for sure without asking those questions directly of voters…. Did indictments help Trump's cause? I think it's silly to argue they didn't…. Are indictments why he blew DeSantis out of the water? They probably contributed, but I see no evidence that they were THE deciding factor…

That would be an easier call if say DeSantis led Trump after announcing and then lost the lead once indictments happened…. That wasn't the series of events in this case, for better or worse…

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Haley's rise is simple to explain, it is a combination of the consolidation of all of the Est block of Christie and Scott combined with a LOT of Dems and Indys.

The last decent chance DeSantis had in this turned out to be put to bed on Nov 28. That was the day the Koch's threw their entire org behind her and they got the anti-Trump money to go in as well. First week of Dec they started the massive ad buys and then got the Sununu endorsement. The problem is the Est vote is big enough to make an impact and has money but they are also too small to combat the base and the MAGA folks. It left DeSantis in the lane of "I like Trump's policies but I don't like Trump" on a foolish endeavor that Haley could beat Trump which was never going to happen. DeSantis pivoted to try and crush Haley knowing his only shot was to get the Establishment types to reluctantly vote for him but the split vote was too much. You also had Vivek pulling some votes as well.

In other words the only way Trump was going to lose was going to be to DeSantis if he could consolidate all of the Non Trump vote and the "I like Trump but am ready for a younger version without the baggage" vote. Nov 28 made that mountain too tall to climb.

This is why I think there was some type of deal made with Trump and Haley btw. They never spent money fighting each other, only against DeSantis. Haley was dead in the water in November without that cash injection and was going to have to drop out. So why would Koch/Dimon/Fink set fire to a couple hundred million? They were smart enough to know Haley couldn't really win, I don't think I have ever heard a serious argument that she could beat Trump. She also never even tried until very recently to go after him and its way too late no matter what the results are in NH.

If you don't think there are forces going on behind the scenes you are truly naive btw. Was just listening to Cruz on his Podcast talking about his own run which was fascinating. It was a lot of things I thought at the time but couldn't prove. For instance Cruz set the record for GOP spending at that time with $92 million and Trump spent very little but he got $3 Billion in Free Media. They would show empty podiums of Trump and not show any of Cruz. After Cruz won 5 States in a row by double digits he got very little publicity and then they pushed Trump winning NY which was a given as "The race is over" and dropped $500 million in free media on him in a couple of weeks that crushed what was left of Cruz's campaign.

They just dusted off the same playbook with a few new additives and it worked again. Inevitability is a strong force in politics because a lot of people are honestly sheep and want to be on the winning side. Doesn't mean they didn't like Trump but it's always easier to back the guy you think is going to win. They also throw out garbage like saying that "we have to unite to beat the Democrat" but don't actually have a real primary. It's powerful propaganda and it works.

FireAg said:

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The RCP average prior to this poll factoring in basically had them in a dead heat...that's where I think PA stands right now...on the extreme side maybe +3 Biden, but within the MOE...

This was one of the swing states I was referring to as having a slight lean toward Biden but well south of what I would typically have expected...

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Like I said it's all fairly meaningless at this point but any poll prior to Sunday should be thrown out.

RCP keeps a running average so they will be cycled out soon enough..,

Going to be a great battle of the issues this election and definitely not "My guy isn't showing as much dementia as your guy!" and "My guy is less corrupt than your guy!" election. Yay.

Every day for the next ten months pic.twitter.com/djVTKgF9km

— Max (@MaxNordau) January 23, 2024

What is this demented old codger talking about? pic.twitter.com/m6FSPtzg1U

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) January 23, 2024

This one is for BigRob

Trump has a plan to keep the magnets out of the water.

— Timothy Watson (@timothy_watson) January 24, 2024

Waffledynamics said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Wow, who could've possibly ever see this coming /s

The immediate shift in coverage regarding Trump’s general election chances as soon as DeSantis dropped out is really something. https://t.co/jKGuCx5vSt

— AG (@AGHamilton29) January 23, 2024

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Wow, what a shock! Expect to see more and more of this.

I'll happily eat crow if Trump wins in November. I doubt Trump's sycophants will if he loses, though. We're about to see one of the biggest "I told you so" moments in American political history.

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oh, only about 15 million DeSantis backers will be driving around with bumper stickers for the next 5 years with "Told You So!" on the back of their cars.

LMCane said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Wow, who could've possibly ever see this coming /s

The immediate shift in coverage regarding Trump’s general election chances as soon as DeSantis dropped out is really something. https://t.co/jKGuCx5vSt

— AG (@AGHamilton29) January 23, 2024

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Wow, what a shock! Expect to see more and more of this.

I'll happily eat crow if Trump wins in November. I doubt Trump's sycophants will if he loses, though. We're about to see one of the biggest "I told you so" moments in American political history.

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oh, only about 15 million DeSantis backers will be driving around with bumper stickers for the next 5 years with "Told You So!" on the back of their cars.

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Yes that will be true. Problem is how does that help us get the rats out of Washington, now that our guy has dropped out. ?

Trust me I feel your pain. But the thought of 4 more years of Biden or another like ****** is far more painful and dangerous. We need to look forward not back.

aggie93 said:

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What is this demented old codger talking about? pic.twitter.com/m6FSPtzg1U

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) January 23, 2024

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Death of a nation and celebrating it. But its in gibberish making it less than apparent.

Beating this clown in November is the new priority.

TRM said:

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This one is for BigRob

Trump has a plan to keep the magnets out of the water.

— Timothy Watson (@timothy_watson) January 24, 2024

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Hell all he did was talk about how and showed how he had been successful in Florida. The only way this makes sense is if she is a Trump voter that barely saw DeSantis outside of a few short clips but then watched longform interviews with Trump. Even then most of Trump's plans of doing anything involved doing something he failed to do last time.

We get the government we deserve I guess.

I'm really holding out hope that DeSantis and Trump can find a way to bury the hatchet and run together…

I have this vision of Trump talking big and DeSantis being his right-hand man as VP acting as the enforcer of conservative policies domestically…he'd have the opportunity to quite literally be the antithesis of Kamala on things like border security…think he would really shine in that role…

FireAg said:

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I'm really holding out hope that DeSantis and Trump can find a way to bury the hatchet and run together…

I have this vision of Trump talking big and DeSantis being his right-hand man as VP acting as the enforcer of conservative policies domestically…he'd have the opportunity to quite literally be the antithesis of Kamala on things like border security…think he would really shine in that role…

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It makes all the sense in the world on paper but it is extremely unlikely. The only way it happens is Trump has to basically make DeSantis his Chief of Staff/VP and heir apparent. Allow him nearly complete autonomy on multiple areas of governance that they agree on such as getting the Border fixed and draining the Swamp. Essentially Trump gets to be out front while DeSantis is making the trains run on time and then DeSantis is basically unopposed in '28 because no one is beating him with Trump fully behind him like that. Trump would also have to clean house with some of the worst of the worst around him like Loomer and Stone.

The problem is DeSantis can't trust Trump and Trump loves loyalty more than anything. There are also a lot of other smaller issues that could be resolved. It definitely makes the most sense for the Party and the Country but I just don't see it. Love to be wrong though, the idea of someone like Stefanik as VP is just gross, Haley would be better.

Trump be the voice…DeSantis be the muscle…

Really like the way that plays out in my mind…

If DeSantis is smart, he won't get close to Trump. Too much baggage and stench that turns off people except for his base. Trump will be a lame duck on Day One, and the party will already be looking beyond him for the next man/woman up. Guaranteed chaos in a Trump administration. While Trump will claim the primary for this election, there's a lot of value to your brand if you're an aspiring R politician in being a non-Trump. Give the proper deference now because Trump is still the king, but the king's days are numbered.

I've been consistent that I think Trump will lose the general election because of all his baggage. And I don't like that outcome because as much as I despise him, I despise Biden by an infinite amount more.

If Trump is to have a real shot at lessening his baggage, he needs a running mate who will appeal to the voter segment who most despises him... suburban women. He and DeSantis are too much alike from a policy perspective. Not exactly the same but in the same ball park. I think that means he needs a female VP. And some will choke on this, but even perhaps a Haley or someone who comes across more moderate and tolerant. She's low on my list for prez, well after DeSantis and Vivek, but I can see the appeal she would bring to voters that Trump will need.

FireAg said:

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Trump be the voice…DeSantis be the muscle…

Really like the way that plays out in my mind…

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Like I said, it makes a lot of sense on paper but the reality is very different.

From a pure political perspective for DeSantis he has to decide if Trump is going to win in November. If he does then being his VP is great. If he doesn't he is far better off not being on the ticket and maintaining his endorsement of Trump while also keeping an arm's length from the disaster that will come from losing to Biden again.

aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Trump be the voice…DeSantis be the muscle…

Really like the way that plays out in my mind…

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Like I said, it makes a lot of sense on paper but the reality is very different.

From a pure political perspective for DeSantis he has to decide if Trump is going to win in November. If he does then being his VP is great. If he doesn't he is far better off not being on the ticket and maintaining his endorsement of Trump while also keeping an arm's length from the disaster that will come from losing to Biden again.

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I really don't think that is true. We have lots of evidence of the opposite.

FireAg said:

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I'm really holding out hope that DeSantis and Trump can find a way to bury the hatchet and run together…

I have this vision of Trump talking big and DeSantis being his right-hand man as VP acting as the enforcer of conservative policies domestically…he'd have the opportunity to quite literally be the antithesis of Kamala on things like border security…think he would really shine in that role…

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That idea is all downside for DeSantis. By the end of the term he would be Trump's enemy for any number of reasons ranging from DeSantis becoming more popular or DeSantis disagrees with Trump one time and now he's disloyal.

Being an official member of Trump's team is a one-way ticket to being hated by Trump and his followers.

Good thing we dodged a bullet and didn't nominate this guy. I mean who wants results like this?

When I got elected governor in Nov 2018, FL had close to 300k more registered Democrats than Republicans.

Today, we have close to 800k more registered Republicans than Democrats — a net gain of more than 1 million in a little more than 5 years.

Produce results and people will…

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 24, 2024

aggie93 said:

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Good thing we dodged a bullet and didn't nominate this guy. I mean who wants results like this?

When I got elected governor in Nov 2018, FL had close to 300k more registered Democrats than Republicans.

Today, we have close to 800k more registered Republicans than Democrats — a net gain of more than 1 million in a little more than 5 years.

Produce results and people will…

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 24, 2024

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Yeah, but how many awesome tweets did he send? You're judging by the wrong metric you old-timer! Get with the new politics! Less substance, more sizzle!

FL_Ag1998 said:

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aggie93 said:

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Good thing we dodged a bullet and didn't nominate this guy. I mean who wants results like this?

When I got elected governor in Nov 2018, FL had close to 300k more registered Democrats than Republicans.

Today, we have close to 800k more registered Republicans than Democrats — a net gain of more than 1 million in a little more than 5 years.

Produce results and people will…

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 24, 2024

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Yeah, but how many awesome tweets did he send? You're judging by the wrong metric you old-timer! Get with the new politics! Less substance, more sizzle!

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Pretty easy to do what you want when you have a compliant legislature that will rubber stamp your agenda. It wouldn't work that way in the White House.

It doesn't even work that way in Texas. Esp after the 2024 elections when the Dems make significant gains in Texas due to the "coattails" of Donald Trump.

I've notice DeSantis has been tweeting a lot lately. He should have done more of this type stuff. The guy has a hot wife and three kids at the cute playful stage.

With conference championship games on tap for this weekend, Mason weighs in with his picks and his projected Super Bowl champion. pic.twitter.com/tM7HtCV8Wd

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 23, 2024

shiftyandquick said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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aggie93 said:

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Good thing we dodged a bullet and didn't nominate this guy. I mean who wants results like this?

When I got elected governor in Nov 2018, FL had close to 300k more registered Democrats than Republicans.

Today, we have close to 800k more registered Republicans than Democrats — a net gain of more than 1 million in a little more than 5 years.

Produce results and people will…

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 24, 2024

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Yeah, but how many awesome tweets did he send? You're judging by the wrong metric you old-timer! Get with the new politics! Less substance, more sizzle!

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Pretty easy to do what you want when you have a compliant legislature that will rubber stamp your agenda. It wouldn't work that way in the White House.

It doesn't even work that way in Texas. Esp after the 2024 elections when the Dems make significant gains in Texas due to the "coattails" of Donald Trump.

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Actually the point is he didn't when he started. He racked up wins and worked to convert voters and NOW he has a compliant Legislature and a Dark Red state. It's not like Florida was Wyoming or Idaho. He has systematically destroyed the Democrat Party there and now they are less powerful than in Texas. It just wasn't that way in 2018.

It's called leadership and hard work.

Dan Scott said:

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I've notice DeSantis has been tweeting a lot lately. He should have done more of this type stuff. The guy has a hot wife and three kids at the cute playful stage.

With conference championship games on tap for this weekend, Mason weighs in with his picks and his projected Super Bowl champion. pic.twitter.com/tM7HtCV8Wd

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 23, 2024

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I have no doubt DeSantis will learn a LOT of lessons from this run and it's also pretty evident he plans to run again. He's going to keep himself relevant and get better because he is a guy who isn't afraid to admit mistakes and learn from them and he has a remarkably small ego for someone with as much success as he has had.

It's also evident btw that he truly enjoys being a Dad and loves his wife which I admit connects with me bigly.

Dan Scott said:

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I've notice DeSantis has been tweeting a lot lately. He should have done more of this type stuff. The guy has a hot wife and three kids at the cute playful stage.

With conference championship games on tap for this weekend, Mason weighs in with his picks and his projected Super Bowl champion. pic.twitter.com/tM7HtCV8Wd

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 23, 2024

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This video rules. The kid was being coy at first but he knows all the players. Was even pleasantly surprised when DeSantis said KC-SF would be a rematch from a couple years ago. The guy knows everything.

aggie93 said:

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Dan Scott said:

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I've notice DeSantis has been tweeting a lot lately. He should have done more of this type stuff. The guy has a hot wife and three kids at the cute playful stage.

With conference championship games on tap for this weekend, Mason weighs in with his picks and his projected Super Bowl champion. pic.twitter.com/tM7HtCV8Wd

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 23, 2024

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I have no doubt DeSantis will learn a LOT of lessons from this run and it's also pretty evident he plans to run again. He's going to keep himself relevant and get better because he is a guy who isn't afraid to admit mistakes and learn from them and he has a remarkably small ego for someone with as much success as he has had.

It's also evident btw that he truly enjoys being a Dad and loves his wife which I admit connects with me bigly.

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I actually like this video better as a non-candidate. If you do this as a candidate, it's sort of using your kid as a political prop. I like that he left his kids out of it for the most part and made the campaign about his record.

I thought Cruz leaned a little too much in to the "I'm a good dad to 2 daughters" lane in 2016. Maybe there are some that like it, but I thought it felt forced and a little cringy at times. Then it backfired on him when his daughter pulled away from him in one video.

Poor guy got kicked out of the Trump watch party yesterday.

I was just kicked out of the Trump victory party for absolutely no reason.

I was standing there speaking with other Trump supporters when I was asked to leave and pushed out of the venue.

This is how they treat loyalty.

If only President Trump knew how his most loyal and… pic.twitter.com/4z8hmO3JuG

— Dylan Quattrucci (@Dylan4America) January 24, 2024

This thread is still open?

And why does that bother you so much?

FireAg said:

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This thread is still open?

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Is this a poll question?