Yeah you're going on ignore after this response because I'm tired of your schtick…

For the last ****ing time…I am neither for nor against Trump…I fully intend to vote for DeSantis if he survives to Super Tuesday…

But he is NOT going to be the R nominee no matter how much some of you wish cast it to be true…

The polls show Trump is waaaaaay ahead…short of dying or being taken off ballots, he WILL be the nominee…that's just fact based on empirical evidence, of which you have none of to support your counter argument…

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Exactly how does electing Trump fix the problem?

What plan does he have to change things?

---

I am so tired of posters deliberately conflating my position as being a Trump voter and only a Trump voter.

I am not. But by all means continue to ignore that. I asked if DeSantis has the brass balls to fix it.

Does he? I don't know.

---

You responded to a post stating that electing Trump because his house had been raided was a pathetic reason. You said you disagreed.

I'm not saying you're a Trump voter, but if this is any part of the reason to elect him, then WHAT will he do? Otherwise, electing him only because he was wronged is not really a reason at all.

When it is Trump vs the D stooge, the reason to vote FOR Trump is because he is NOT the D stooge…

Y'all can play these hypocritical wish casting games all you want, and hell, I agree with all of your points…

But the problem is…DeSantis ain't going to be the nominee…so you're either voting for Trump, against Trump, or you're not voting…

Pretty simple…

FireAg said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Exactly how does electing Trump fix the problem?

What plan does he have to change things?

---

I am so tired of posters deliberately conflating my position as being a Trump voter and only a Trump voter.

I am not. But by all means continue to ignore that. I asked if DeSantis has the brass balls to fix it.

Does he? I don't know.

---

Why couldn't Trump fix it in his 4 years as President?

---

Absolutely disingenuous to even ask that question because you already know why…

He was in the middle of being persecuted while the Left, the media, and the establishment all made up the "crimes" he was being persecuted for…

He was having to deal with an evolving coup real time…DeSantis would be approaching it from a problem that happened and now needs to be fixed…

Two totally different scenarios…

---

So, why elect Trump in 2024, then? What are the reasons?

He will still be dealing with these issues through the election. And if he was to win, they'd probably be put on hold, but he'd still have them hanging over the head of his administration?

FireAg said:

---

Yeah you're going on ignore after this response because I'm tired of your schtick…

For the last ****ing time…I am neither for nor against Trump…I fully intend to vote for DeSantis if he survives to Super Tuesday…

But he is NOT going to be the R nominee no matter how much some of you wish cast it to be true…

The polls show Trump is waaaaaay ahead…short of dying or being taken off ballots, he WILL be the nominee…that's just fact based on empirical evidence, of which you have none of to support your counter argument…

---

Back at ya Mr Poll.

Polls are not empirical evidence. A lot can happen in 90 days. How the hell do you know what will happen in that time. We've not had a political landscape this charged up since 1860. Nobody especially people like you or I have a ****ing clue.

So drop the I know everything bull **** because you read the latest poll data. BFD!!.

Really Ignore ? You must have some very thin skin. I have never put anyone on ignore.

Tanya 93 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Exactly how does electing Trump fix the problem?

What plan does he have to change things?

---

I am so tired of posters deliberately conflating my position as being a Trump voter and only a Trump voter.

I am not. But by all means continue to ignore that. I asked if DeSantis has the brass balls to fix it.

Does he? I don't know.

---

Why couldn't Trump fix it in his 4 years as President?

---

Absolutely disingenuous to even ask that question because you already know why…

He was in the middle of being persecuted while the Left, the media, and the establishment all made up the "crimes" he was being persecuted for…

He was having to deal with an evolving coup real time…DeSantis would be approaching it from a problem that happened and now needs to be fixed…

Two totally different scenarios…

---

And it will be different for him now? How?

---

The reason is <Insert deflection>. <Insert insult>!

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Exactly how does electing Trump fix the problem?

What plan does he have to change things?

---

I am so tired of posters deliberately conflating my position as being a Trump voter and only a Trump voter.

I am not. But by all means continue to ignore that. I asked if DeSantis has the brass balls to fix it.

Does he? I don't know.

---

Why couldn't Trump fix it in his 4 years as President?

---

Absolutely disingenuous to even ask that question because you already know why…

He was in the middle of being persecuted while the Left, the media, and the establishment all made up the "crimes" he was being persecuted for…

He was having to deal with an evolving coup real time…DeSantis would be approaching it from a problem that happened and now needs to be fixed…

Two totally different scenarios…

---

So, why elect Trump in 2024, then? What are the reasons?

He will still be dealing with these issues through the election. And if he was to win, they'd probably be put on hold, but he'd still have them hanging over the head of his administration?

---

He will be the R nominee…that's why…I've got no other reason for you because I'm realistic and honest…

You are welcome to not vote, vote indy, or vote D…but those are your choices…

There is no path for any other R candidate to be the R nominee, if you believe the polls (and you are entitled to not believe them…that's your right, though I have yet to see anyone post anything of concrete evidence that shows the polls are wrong…or wrong by THAT MUCH)…

So until DeSantis or Haley can poll anywhere within 10 points (on average) of Trump, then y'all are arguing about improbable hypotheses…

FireAg said:

---

When it is Trump vs the D stooge, the reason to vote FOR Trump is because he is NOT the D stooge…

Y'all can play these hypocritical wish casting games all you want, and hell, I agree with all of your points…

But the problem is…DeSantis ain't going to be the nominee…so you're either voting for Trump, against Trump, or you're not voting…

Pretty simple…

---

That is not the same reason.

The reason given earlier was to vote for him because he had been wronged. Why should I vote for him in the primary to be the nominee? Because he was wronged? Well, then, what will he do about it if he becomes the nominee and then is elected?

I'd like a reason to vote for him to be the nominee.

If your answer is not a damn thing, say it.

And yes, Trump is not the D stooge. But at this point, he's not making a great point that he's better, other than the fact that he'd have an R next to his name when elected.

FireAg said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Exactly how does electing Trump fix the problem?

What plan does he have to change things?

---

I am so tired of posters deliberately conflating my position as being a Trump voter and only a Trump voter.

I am not. But by all means continue to ignore that. I asked if DeSantis has the brass balls to fix it.

Does he? I don't know.

---

Why couldn't Trump fix it in his 4 years as President?

---

Absolutely disingenuous to even ask that question because you already know why…

He was in the middle of being persecuted while the Left, the media, and the establishment all made up the "crimes" he was being persecuted for…

He was having to deal with an evolving coup real time…DeSantis would be approaching it from a problem that happened and now needs to be fixed…

Two totally different scenarios…

---

So, why elect Trump in 2024, then? What are the reasons?

He will still be dealing with these issues through the election. And if he was to win, they'd probably be put on hold, but he'd still have them hanging over the head of his administration?

---

He will be the R nominee…that's why…I've got no other reason for you because I'm realistic and honest…

You are welcome to not vote, vote indy, or vote D…but those are your choices…

There is no path for any other R candidate to be the R nominee, if you believe the polls (and you are entitled to not believe them…that's your right, though I have yet to see anyone post anything of concrete evidence that shows the polls are wrong…or wrong by THAT MUCH)…

So until DeSantis or Haley can poll anywhere within 10 points (on average) of Trump, then y'all are arguing about improbable hypotheses…

---

I've stated this before. The polls are largely what they are because Trump has an air of inevitability about him right now. He's up big in a lot of polls. He's up big in Iowa.

But, what happens if he loses Iowa? Now the poll that showed him with a HUGE lead shows that at least THAT poll was completely useless and meaningless.

THAT may pop the bubble of inevitability.

Then, Trump will need more than just "the polls show that I'm obviously going to win" as his campaign platform.

MY ANSWER IS NOT A DAMN THING because this debate is MOOT…

Trump WILL be the nominee unless something extraordinary happens…

You can vote for DeSantis in the primary…I intend to if he's still in it…but Trump will be the nominee…

FireAg said:

---

When it is Trump vs the D stooge, the reason to vote FOR Trump is because he is NOT the D stooge…

Y'all can play these hypocritical wish casting games all you want, and hell, I agree with all of your points…

But the problem is…DeSantis ain't going to be the nominee…so you're either voting for Trump, against Trump, or you're not voting…

Pretty simple…

---

All due respect but here's my issue with your stance.

You state that its set in stone that Trump will be the nominee because polls are emperical evidence that apparently can't be "gamed" to produce desired results. That in itself is a little silly to me because your undisputable evidence is based on observation (i.e. emperical), meanwhile non-poll realworld observations (i.e. emperical evidence) also point to a pretty big groundswell of support for DeSantis.

Anyway, you also state as fact that people will vote for Trump simply because he's not a "Democrat Stooge". THAT my friend is wishcasting, and even less of a fact than current polls. I can point to just as much emperical evidence that people will either not vote or vote against Trump simply because he's Trump.

I didn't not say people will vote for him because he ain't the D stooge..I said that, at the end of the day, the reason people WILL vote for him, at least a good many of them, will be for NO OTHER REASON THAN he isn't the D stooge…

I'm not saying that's a GOOD reason…I'm saying that will simply be "the reason"…

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Exactly how does electing Trump fix the problem?

What plan does he have to change things?

---

I am so tired of posters deliberately conflating my position as being a Trump voter and only a Trump voter.

I am not. But by all means continue to ignore that. I asked if DeSantis has the brass balls to fix it.

Does he? I don't know.

---

Why couldn't Trump fix it in his 4 years as President?

---

Absolutely disingenuous to even ask that question because you already know why…

He was in the middle of being persecuted while the Left, the media, and the establishment all made up the "crimes" he was being persecuted for…

He was having to deal with an evolving coup real time…DeSantis would be approaching it from a problem that happened and now needs to be fixed…

Two totally different scenarios…

---

So, why elect Trump in 2024, then? What are the reasons?

He will still be dealing with these issues through the election. And if he was to win, they'd probably be put on hold, but he'd still have them hanging over the head of his administration?

---

He will be the R nominee…that's why…I've got no other reason for you because I'm realistic and honest…

You are welcome to not vote, vote indy, or vote D…but those are your choices…

There is no path for any other R candidate to be the R nominee, if you believe the polls (and you are entitled to not believe them…that's your right, though I have yet to see anyone post anything of concrete evidence that shows the polls are wrong…or wrong by THAT MUCH)…

So until DeSantis or Haley can poll anywhere within 10 points (on average) of Trump, then y'all are arguing about improbable hypotheses…

---

I've stated this before. The polls are largely what they are because Trump has an air of inevitability about him right now. He's up big in a lot of polls. He's up big in Iowa.

But, what happens if he loses Iowa? Now the poll that showed him with a HUGE lead shows that at least THAT poll was completely useless and meaningless.

THAT may pop the bubble of inevitability.

Then, Trump will need more than just "the polls show that I'm obviously going to win" as his campaign platform.

---

If he loses Iowa, (and he's way ahead there, but I'll play along)…it likely means almost nothing…

Iowa has been a TERRIBLE predictor of the eventual Republican nominee for non-incumbent candidates…literally awful…

Wanna watch a primary I think is going to be telling? Watch New Hampshire…. That's the one state poll right now where one candidate has made noticeable gains against Trump…Nikki Haley…

Dan Scott said:

---

They were burning federal courts in Oregon and the head of the federal government didn't do anything about it. After the election, he cried fraud and failed miserably at making his case by hiring the most incompetent lawyers to fight for him.

But he's going to fix the judicial system this time.

---

And he's going have Mexico pay to fix our judicial system!!!

FireAg said:

---

I didn't not say people will vote for him because he ain't the D stooge..I said that, at the end of the day, the reason people WILL vote for him, at least a good many of them, will be for NO OTHER REASON THAN he isn't the D stooge…

I'm not saying that's a GOOD reason…I'm saying that will simply be "the reason"…

---

Sorry, what I meant was that people will either vote against Trump because of 1) the hitjob the MSM's done on him the past 4 years, or 2) Trump's own horrible words and actions over the past 3 years...or...they simply won't vote at all.

In 2016, most people viewed the election as picking between the less horrible of two horrible candidates (polls showed that).

In 2020, people had to choose between two geriatric choices.

In 2024, if faced with another election of geriatric and/or "dislikeable" candidates, well, I have a feeling many might just say "**** it, what's the point, why waste my time, we're screwed either way?".

My issue is you state opinions (or at least in my opinion, they're opinions) as facts. That's your right, and I do like "arguing", i.e. discussing, topics like this. So please continue to post your opinions. I think its just the stating them as facts is what turns off some posters.

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

FireAg said:

---

MY ANSWER IS NOT A DAMN THING because this debate is MOOT…

Trump WILL be the nominee unless something extraordinary happens…

You can vote for DeSantis in the primary…I intend to if he's still in it…but Trump will be the nominee…

---

So, the only reason you can give to vote for Trump is that he will be the Republican nominee?

Nothing else?

FireAg said:

---

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

---

So anonymous polls conducted via whatever random method are able to be relied upon as facts, but actual counts of real people signed up to caucus for DeSantis are not factual?

the afp (koch network) endorsing nikki haley yesterday certainly doesn't bode well for desantis, looks like yet another nail in his campaign's coffin

FireAg said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

Exactly how does electing Trump fix the problem?

What plan does he have to change things?

---

I am so tired of posters deliberately conflating my position as being a Trump voter and only a Trump voter.

I am not. But by all means continue to ignore that. I asked if DeSantis has the brass balls to fix it.

Does he? I don't know.

---

Why couldn't Trump fix it in his 4 years as President?

---

Absolutely disingenuous to even ask that question because you already know why…

He was in the middle of being persecuted while the Left, the media, and the establishment all made up the "crimes" he was being persecuted for…

He was having to deal with an evolving coup real time…DeSantis would be approaching it from a problem that happened and now needs to be fixed…

Two totally different scenarios…

---

So, why elect Trump in 2024, then? What are the reasons?

He will still be dealing with these issues through the election. And if he was to win, they'd probably be put on hold, but he'd still have them hanging over the head of his administration?

---

He will be the R nominee…that's why…I've got no other reason for you because I'm realistic and honest…

You are welcome to not vote, vote indy, or vote D…but those are your choices…

There is no path for any other R candidate to be the R nominee, if you believe the polls (and you are entitled to not believe them…that's your right, though I have yet to see anyone post anything of concrete evidence that shows the polls are wrong…or wrong by THAT MUCH)…

So until DeSantis or Haley can poll anywhere within 10 points (on average) of Trump, then y'all are arguing about improbable hypotheses…

---

I've stated this before. The polls are largely what they are because Trump has an air of inevitability about him right now. He's up big in a lot of polls. He's up big in Iowa.

But, what happens if he loses Iowa? Now the poll that showed him with a HUGE lead shows that at least THAT poll was completely useless and meaningless.

THAT may pop the bubble of inevitability.

Then, Trump will need more than just "the polls show that I'm obviously going to win" as his campaign platform.

---

If he loses Iowa, (and he's way ahead there, but I'll play along)…it likely means almost nothing…

Iowa has been a TERRIBLE predictor of the eventual Republican nominee for non-incumbent candidates…literally awful…

Wanna watch a primary I think is going to be telling? Watch New Hampshire…. That's the one state poll right now where one candidate has made noticeable gains against Trump…Nikki Haley…

---

Again, DeSantis winning Iowa would show that at least one poll showing Trump with a COMMANDING lead, was complete horse*****

Then, if Haley won NH, it would AGAIN show that yet ANOTHER poll was complete horse*****

"The race is over, just look at the polls" isn't worth squat as a mantra then.

You are basing your hopes on polling being wrong by 30 points…in Iowa…

Be my guest…but it would be unprecedented for that to be the case…

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

---

So anonymous polls conducted via whatever random method are able to be relied upon as facts, but actual counts of real people signed up to caucus for DeSantis are not factual?

---

Any one poll? You have an argument…but an AVERAGE of multiple polls over a long period of time? Nope…they are more likely to be right than wrong…that's simple statistics…

FireAg said:

---

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

---

aggie93 has shown data regarding people committing to caucus for DeSantis for at least a month - over 3 times as many as Cruz had (Cruz won).

There's some data.

Nice. Tie Gavin to rich elites and Biden all night. Protect the middle class.

Damn the parties have flipped

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

---

aggie93 has shown data regarding people committing to caucus for DeSantis for at least a month - over 3 times as many as Cruz had (Cruz won).

There's some data.

---

That's not data…that's people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever…

It's encouraging for DeSantis, but it by no means reflects the attitude of the entire state, nor does it guarantee they will do as they have pledged…

It's a meaningless warm and fuzzy…

You do realize Cruz was down big to Trump in Iowa and came back to win.

FireAg said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

---

aggie93 has shown data regarding people committing to caucus for DeSantis for at least a month - over 3 times as many as Cruz had (Cruz won).

There's some data.

---

That's not data…that's people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever…

It's encouraging for DeSantis, but it by no means reflects the attitude of the entire state, nor does it guarantee they will do as they have pledged…

It's a meaningless warm and fuzzy…

---

Just so we're clear - someone going through the deliberate act of signing up to caucus for a candidate = meaningless warm and fuzzy.

Someone answering a random poll with, in most cases, questionable organizations behind them = concrete irrefutable data.

Cool.

FireAg said:

---

You are basing your hopes on polling being wrong by 30 points…in Iowa…

Be my guest…but it would be unprecedented for that to be the case…

---

Not hopes.

Just presenting the scenario.

If Trump wins, he'll cruise to the nomination.

However, he'll do it over a large number of burned bridges.

And THAT does not bode well for the general election.

FireAg said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

---

aggie93 has shown data regarding people committing to caucus for DeSantis for at least a month - over 3 times as many as Cruz had (Cruz won).

There's some data.

---

That's not data…that's people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever…

It's encouraging for DeSantis, but it by no means reflects the attitude of the entire state, nor does it guarantee they will do as they have pledged…

It's a meaningless warm and fuzzy…

---

Then why the **** are you quoting POLLS?

Those are...wait for it..."people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever"

TRM said:

---

You do realize Cruz was down big to Trump in Iowa and came back to win.

---

You do realize that on Nov 30, 2015, Trump led Cruz 26.7 to 18.3 in the RCP average, right? An 8.4 point spread, right?

The RCP average today is Trump 47.0 to DeSantis at 17.3…. That's a damn near 30 point spread…

The Iowa Caucuses are 46 days away…

46 days to make up 30 points…

It would be unprecedented…not impossible…but astronomically unprecedented…

There were 5 polls in Nov 2015 for Iowa. Nov 2023 in Iowa there's only been 1 (in early Nov), so you can't see any movement in Iowa.

I'm
Not arguing what "bodes well" and what doesn't for the general election…

I'm telling you that all signs point to Trump being the R nominee no matter what any of us think "should" happen…

FireAg said:

---

I'm
Not arguing what "bodes well" and what doesn't for the general election…

I'm telling you that all signs point to Trump being the R nominee no matter what any of us think "should" happen…

---

Using the "data" of polls...which are "people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever".

Of course, you discount other data that is "people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever".

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

FireAg said:

---

They are at least opinions supported by data…I have been begging for months for folks to show me data that contradicts the polling data…

All I get is pro-DeSantis tweets and "the polls are just wrong"…no data to counter with…

---

aggie93 has shown data regarding people committing to caucus for DeSantis for at least a month - over 3 times as many as Cruz had (Cruz won).

There's some data.

---

That's not data…that's people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever…

It's encouraging for DeSantis, but it by no means reflects the attitude of the entire state, nor does it guarantee they will do as they have pledged…

It's a meaningless warm and fuzzy…

---

Then why the **** are you quoting POLLS?

Those are...wait for it..."people saying they are going to do something with no contractual obligation to do so whatsoever"

---

With a history (sans 2016) of being very good predictors…

Look, if DeSantis was within 10, I'd be willing to listen…he'd at least be approaching the extremist of extreme borders of "margin of error"…

But we aren't even close to that being even a point of consideration…he's getting smoked by 30 and has 46 days to narrow that gap to even being on the fringe of striking distance…

JHC…

The RCP is using 3 polls for its current Iowa average…

Des Moines Register (10/23-10/26)
Trafalgar (11/3-11/5)
Iowa State (11/10-11/15)

The latest, Iowa State, a true "state" poll, showed a margin of Trump +36…

That same poll was Trump +38 in October and Trump +37 in September…

There ain't a lot of movement away from Trump…and much of the movement in Iowa, of the limited movement there has been, and been for HALEY, not DeSantis…