TRM said:

---

DeSantis is making the case to the general public, particularly, independents that hate Trump. The hardcore base may care more about Trump, but like with everything else it's not all about him.

---

But he needs their votes to win the primary...

Promoting the pardoning of donald now as an absolute is not what attorney DeSantis should consider. It comes across as pandering and it's too early until the legal process plays out. He can say he'd consider it but not promise it.

Trump sends his thoughts and prayers on Truth Social this morning to those that could be effected by the devastation of Hurricane Idalia.

Jk. Polls and indictments. pic.twitter.com/wWj9HcX9b7

— Florida Dad (@FloridadadD) August 29, 2023

Rapier108 said:

---

Trump sends his thoughts and prayers on Truth Social this morning to those that could be effected by the devastation of Hurricane Idalia.

Jk. Polls and indictments. pic.twitter.com/wWj9HcX9b7

— Florida Dad (@FloridadadD) August 29, 2023

---

LOL at Trump warning people to 'be careful what you wish for'...

That will definitely bring in more of the suburban female vote in 2024!

FireAg said:

---

TRM said:

---

DeSantis is making the case to the general public, particularly, independents that hate Trump. The hardcore base may care more about Trump, but like with everything else it's not all about him.

---

But he needs their votes to win the primary...

---

DeSantis doesn't want to make empty promises.

He said he'd look at J6ers' cases and compare them to ANTIFA cases and see if there were differences in the application of the law. Assume he's going to do the same thing for Trump especially since we don't know all the evidence yet. Maybe there's something the popped up that none of knows about that would give him pause, then it makes DeSantis look like a liar.

It takes a cursory amount of perhaps 30 minutes of reading to see their treatment is hideously disproportionate vs. Antifa/BLM rioters by the DOJ/court system.

I try to check on this thread once a week right now to see if there is good news. Sigh…

nortex97 said:

---

It takes a cursory amount of perhaps 30 minutes of reading to see their treatment is hideously disproportionate vs. Antifa/BLM rioters by the DOJ/court system.

---

No disagreement there.

TRM said:

---

FireAg said:

---

TRM said:

---

DeSantis is making the case to the general public, particularly, independents that hate Trump. The hardcore base may care more about Trump, but like with everything else it's not all about him.

---

But he needs their votes to win the primary...

---

DeSantis doesn't want to make empty promises.

He said he'd look at J6ers' cases and compare them to ANTIFA cases and see if there were differences in the application of the law. Assume he's going to do the same thing for Trump especially since we don't know all the evidence yet. Maybe there's something the popped up that none of knows about that would give him pause, then it makes DeSantis look like a liar.

---

Short of child molestation, rape, or murder, if R's want to get the Trump stuff off the front pages, they need to put it to bed...nothing will come out that is on the level of child molestation, rape, or murder, so if you say you will pardon Trump, that actually gives you the upper hand over Trump (i.e. perception becomes "Trump NEEDS DeSantis" and not the other way around), AND it's an olive branch to the Trump hardliners to basically say, "look...your guy got screwed...I can't go back in time and fix that, but I can make sure the screw-job stops here and now"...

I actually think a lot of conservatives would be attracted to such an approach...

DeSantis folks are happy because it makes DeSantis seemingly more powerful than almighty Trump...

It makes Trump folks happy because their guy can ride off into the sunset without facing further political persecution...

Honestly, all it does is piss off the Left and then (strangely) perhaps it pisses off Trump because DeSantis would then control the perception surrounding Trump's "freedom"...that would allow DeSantis to start taking some oxygen out of the Trump echo chamber...

But maybe even more importantly...it would put DeSantis in the headlines, and make Trump's legal plight (and outcome) a footnote...

That doesn't help DeSantis with independents though. He needs to viewed differently than Trump and independents will approve of this even-handed approach.

FireAg said:

---

TRM said:

---

FireAg said:

---

TRM said:

---

DeSantis is making the case to the general public, particularly, independents that hate Trump. The hardcore base may care more about Trump, but like with everything else it's not all about him.

---

But he needs their votes to win the primary...

---

DeSantis doesn't want to make empty promises.

He said he'd look at J6ers' cases and compare them to ANTIFA cases and see if there were differences in the application of the law. Assume he's going to do the same thing for Trump especially since we don't know all the evidence yet. Maybe there's something the popped up that none of knows about that would give him pause, then it makes DeSantis look like a liar.

---

Short of child molestation, rape, or murder, if R's want to get the Trump stuff off the front pages, they need to put it to bed...nothing will come out that is on the level of child molestation, rape, or murder, so if you say you will pardon Trump, that actually gives you the upper hand over Trump (i.e. perception becomes "Trump NEEDS DeSantis" and not the other way around), AND it's an olive branch to the Trump hardliners to basically say, "look...your guy got screwed...I can't go back in time and fix that, but I can make sure the screw-job stops here and now"...

I actually think a lot of conservatives would be attracted to such an approach...

DeSantis folks are happy because it makes DeSantis seemingly more powerful than almighty Trump...

It makes Trump folks happy because their guy can ride off into the sunset without facing further political persecution...

Honestly, all it does is piss off the Left and then (strangely) perhaps it pisses off Trump because DeSantis would then control the perception surrounding Trump's "freedom"...that would allow DeSantis to start taking some oxygen out of the Trump echo chamber...

But maybe even more importantly...it would put DeSantis in the headlines, and make Trump's legal plight (and outcome) a footnote...

---

As if it's up to Republicans to get Trump off the front page…

TRM said:

---

That doesn't help DeSantis with independents though. He needs to viewed differently than Trump and independents will approve of this even-handed approach.

---

I categorically disagree...

If it is true that "independents are tired of Trump", then I believe they would welcome a post-Trump political landscape...

If you make Trump's legal plight a mere footnote of the 2024 campaign by saying you will pardon him, that takes his legal plight off the front pages and allows the focus to then be shifted toward DeSantis and the messages he has to deliver after he steals headlines with the Trump pardon offer...

If independents are tired of Trump...then perhaps the right move is to marginalize him in a way that appeals to Trump's supporters but makes DeSantis popular with independents because "Trump" is no longer part of the 24-hour news cycle...

FireAg said:

---

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...

---

And here's the problem with the electorate in a nutshell. We're all out here looking for "charisma". For "feels". For "excitement". All that crap is what got us where we are today.

Nobody wants to focus on tangible triviality like "results" and "accomplishments".

20 or 30 years ago, in an age of more common sense, RDS would be running away with this thing. Hands down.

LeonardSkinner said:

---

FireAg said:

---

TRM said:

---

FireAg said:

---

TRM said:

---

DeSantis is making the case to the general public, particularly, independents that hate Trump. The hardcore base may care more about Trump, but like with everything else it's not all about him.

---

But he needs their votes to win the primary...

---

DeSantis doesn't want to make empty promises.

He said he'd look at J6ers' cases and compare them to ANTIFA cases and see if there were differences in the application of the law. Assume he's going to do the same thing for Trump especially since we don't know all the evidence yet. Maybe there's something the popped up that none of knows about that would give him pause, then it makes DeSantis look like a liar.

---

Short of child molestation, rape, or murder, if R's want to get the Trump stuff off the front pages, they need to put it to bed...nothing will come out that is on the level of child molestation, rape, or murder, so if you say you will pardon Trump, that actually gives you the upper hand over Trump (i.e. perception becomes "Trump NEEDS DeSantis" and not the other way around), AND it's an olive branch to the Trump hardliners to basically say, "look...your guy got screwed...I can't go back in time and fix that, but I can make sure the screw-job stops here and now"...

I actually think a lot of conservatives would be attracted to such an approach...

DeSantis folks are happy because it makes DeSantis seemingly more powerful than almighty Trump...

It makes Trump folks happy because their guy can ride off into the sunset without facing further political persecution...

Honestly, all it does is piss off the Left and then (strangely) perhaps it pisses off Trump because DeSantis would then control the perception surrounding Trump's "freedom"...that would allow DeSantis to start taking some oxygen out of the Trump echo chamber...

But maybe even more importantly...it would put DeSantis in the headlines, and make Trump's legal plight (and outcome) a footnote...

---

As if it's up to Republicans to get Trump off the front page…

---

It can be...they just have to take charge of the narrative...what better way to do so then to nominate a guy who says he will pardon Trump on Day 1 if elected, and then, with all of the noise quickly silenced, he will go to work in DC doing things like he did in FL?

If they nominate DeSantis, sure. But Trump will remain on the front pages as long as he wants to stay there. Which, my guess is, is forever.

dixichkn said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...

---

And here's the problem with the electorate in a nutshell. We're all out here looking for "charisma". For "feels". For "excitement". All that crap is what got us where we are today.

Nobody wants to focus on tangible triviality like "results" and "accomplishments".

20 or 30 years ago, in an age of more common sense, RDS would be running away with this thing. Hands down.

---

Awesome...guess what? Inertia is against you... It's not ideal, but it's reality...

So you gotta play to the masses...you gotta market your message in a way that grabs their attention in a world where 24 news cycles and "who got eliminated on The Voice last night?" are more appealing to the masses than governing policies by candidate X...

Again, that's not the world you (or I) want, but that's the world we live in...

So he's gotta find a way to break through that...

LeonardSkinner said:

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If they nominate DeSantis, sure. But Trump will remain on the front pages as long as he wants to stay there. Which, my guess is, is forever.

---

Not if you believe he is a "grifter" and only running to "pay his legal bills"...

By saying you will pardon him on Day 1, you basically take all of Trump's current talking points off the table in the R nomination process...and at the same time, with your attention-grabbing headline...you now have everyone paying attention to "what will you say next?"...

I think we're talking past each other. Simply put, I don't think that Trump, or the MSM, will allow his name to leave the front pages.

Even if the entire slate of candidates said that which you're suggesting, he would make headlines in some other way.

LeonardSkinner said:

---

I think we're talking past each other. Simply put, I don't think that Trump, or the MSM, will allow his name to leave the front pages.

Even if the entire slate of candidates said that which you're suggesting, he would make headlines in some other way.

---

I think folks like Chuck Todd would be clamoring to get DeSantis on and "shame" him...but that would be free publicity for DeSantis, and it would open a new avenue for him to get his message out...

What does Trump really have left after that?

"I will pardon Trump!" allows DeSantis to put the spotlight on himself and steal Trump's "woe is me! I'm the victim!" thunder all at once...

nortex97 said:

---

It takes a cursory amount of perhaps 30 minutes of reading to see their treatment is hideously disproportionate vs. Antifa/BLM rioters by the DOJ/court system.

I try to check on this thread once a week right now to see if there is good news. Sigh…

---

True but there were a handful of folks that were violent and crossed the line. He says he will pardon all of them and he will be crucified for that. He also doesn't have all the info thus he wants to do it the right way. It's the correct answer.

FireAg said:

---

LeonardSkinner said:

---

If they nominate DeSantis, sure. But Trump will remain on the front pages as long as he wants to stay there. Which, my guess is, is forever.

---

Not if you believe he is a "grifter" and only running to "pay his legal bills"...

By saying you will pardon him on Day 1, you basically take all of Trump's current talking points off the table in the R nomination process...and at the same time, with your attention-grabbing headline...you now have everyone paying attention to "what will you say next?"...

---

You keep saying this but DeSantis has already effectively said that and Trump voters don't care. Why? They have Trump or they have Vivek who is promising the world already.

Making a stronger statement doesn't gain him any votes right now.

FireAg said:

---

TRM said:

---

That doesn't help DeSantis with independents though. He needs to viewed differently than Trump and independents will approve of this even-handed approach.

---

I categorically disagree...

If it is true that "independents are tired of Trump", then I believe they would welcome a post-Trump political landscape...

If you make Trump's legal plight a mere footnote of the 2024 campaign by saying you will pardon him, that takes his legal plight off the front pages and allows the focus to then be shifted toward DeSantis and the messages he has to deliver after he steals headlines with the Trump pardon offer...

If independents are tired of Trump...then perhaps the right move is to marginalize him in a way that appeals to Trump's supporters but makes DeSantis popular with independents because "Trump" is no longer part of the 24-hour news cycle...

---

They're not just tired of Trump, they think he committed serious crimes. It'd be a hard to sell them on a blanket pardon without analyzing all the evidence between say Trump and Hilary.

Still can't admit he was wrong.

🚨LISTEN! Trump AGAIN says he did a great thing locking the country down.

“We did a great job with COVID. Has never been acknowledged, but it will be in history. We did a great job with the ventilators.”

He would do it again! pic.twitter.com/XUEs9rfsSO

— Chris Nelson 🇺🇸 🏝 (@ReOpenChris) August 29, 2023

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ron-desantis-will-hold-three-fundraisers-in-pa-next-week-as-he-tries-to-regain-momentum-for-his-campaign/ar-AA1fWUAK

Quote:

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"There are a lot of primary-voting Republicans who voted for President Trump in 2016 or 2020 who are going to vote for someone else," former GOP gubernatorial candidate Guy Ciarrocchi, who is hosting one of the DeSantis fundraisers said. "They're ready to move forward and they're interested in winning."

DeSantis, who left the campaign trail Sunday to address multiple crises in Florida, including Hurricane Idalia, is currently still slated to make the tripTuesday. It was unclear Tuesday whether the storm would impact the events or DeSantis' travel plans.

He is scheduled to attend a breakfast in Harrisburg, a lunch in Altoona, and an evening reception in Pittsburgh, all ticketed events with high-dollar donations.

Three fundraisers in one day

---

Who's going to pardon DeSantis in 2027 when they TRUMP up some charges against him?

agz win said:

---

Promoting the pardoning of donald now as an absolute is not what attorney DeSantis should consider. It comes across as pandering and it's too early until the legal process plays out. He can say he'd consider it but not promise it.

---

Especially after his half ass equivocation on the debate stage the other night. He obviously does not want to pardon Trump but if he now decides to do it people will see it as a political move and not what he believes. DeSantis will lose votes if he pardons now.

Not following…he would lose votes for pardoning someone who didn't actually commit crimes?

Trump lost by THREE MILLION VOTES in the popular vote to the most reviled American politician in history in 2016.

he then lost by SIX MILLION VOTES to a dementia patient running a campaign from his basement.

he was the face of the party and the leader when the GOP lost huge amounts of seats in 2018 and 2020 Congressional elections,

and performed at a historically bad level in the 2022 mid-terms against Biden during the highest inflation in 40 years.

this was all BEFORE a second impeachment, losing three senate elections in Georgia and Arizona, January 6 riots, four criminal indictments facing 91 felony counts, dinner with Kanye West and the foremost American Nazi, endless and never ending lies about DeSantis.

how anyone can believe Trump will actually win in 2024 is beyond comprehension.

FireAg said:

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Not following…he would lose votes for pardoning someone who didn't actually commit crimes?

---

According to MAGA yes, because for MAGA there's a purity test required of everyone besides Trump (and Vivek for some MAGA). Every other candidate must face scrutiny over every action and decision that Trump himself doesn't have to worry about facing.

If the GOP is so ate up with the dumbass and doesn't kick Trump to the curb and select and then elect Desantis, the best conservative candidate in 40 yrs, we deserve all the bad that we get from another term of Democrat rule.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with some people?!

TRM said:

---

Still can't admit he was wrong.

🚨LISTEN! Trump AGAIN says he did a great thing locking the country down.

“We did a great job with COVID. Has never been acknowledged, but it will be in history. We did a great job with the ventilators.”

He would do it again! pic.twitter.com/XUEs9rfsSO

— Chris Nelson 🇺🇸 🏝 (@ReOpenChris) August 29, 2023

---

Those ventilators needlessly killed thousands of people all because China said anyone going to the hospital should be put on a vent right away no matter their condition.

Bryanisbest said:

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Who's going to pardon DeSantis in 2027 when they TRUMP up some charges against him?

---

That is nothing but a strawman argument since you have no real response in your effort to always defend and promote Trump no matter what.

Rapier108 said:

---

TRM said:

---

Still can't admit he was wrong.

🚨LISTEN! Trump AGAIN says he did a great thing locking the country down.

“We did a great job with COVID. Has never been acknowledged, but it will be in history. We did a great job with the ventilators.”

He would do it again! pic.twitter.com/XUEs9rfsSO

— Chris Nelson 🇺🇸 🏝 (@ReOpenChris) August 29, 2023

---

Those ventilators needlessly killed thousands of people all because China said anyone going to the hospital should be put on a vent right away no matter their condition.

---

Yep. Trump flat out doesn't get it, but, as he is famous for saying, he never admits a mistake. And apparently he doesn't ask for forgiveness

FL_Ag1998 said:

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FireAg said:

---

Not following…he would lose votes for pardoning someone who didn't actually commit crimes?

---

According to MAGA yes, because for MAGA there's a purity test required of everyone besides Trump (and Vivek for some MAGA). Every other candidate must face scrutiny over every action and decision that Trump himself doesn't have to worry about facing.

---

Sorry, but I haven't heard a single Trump supporter I know claim they would refrain from voting DeSantis if he pardoned Trump...

Maybe some others have said that, I don't know, but I haven't heard that AT ALL...

Frankly, that makes zero sense...

FireAg said:

---

Not following…he would lose votes for pardoning someone who didn't actually commit crimes?

---

This is why it doesn't matter what DeSantis does, he will not get the attention of the Trump core by doing the same things he does. It isn't that DeSantis has done anything that he shouldn't have, it's that the Trump core will buy anything that is Trump branded, and will never in a million years buy anything not Trump branded, no matter if it agrees with them 100%. They will find whatever excuse that it isn't good enough.

It's not worth trying to capture the Trump base, because no one else is Trump, and that is the only thing they care about. There is a reason why certain terms have been bandied about, because they are accurate, and no, using those terms is not going to scare them off, because they have no intention of doing anything but supporting Trump and only Trump.

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Not following…he would lose votes for pardoning someone who didn't actually commit crimes?

---

This is why it doesn't matter what DeSantis does, he will not get the attention of the Trump core by doing the same things he does. It isn't that DeSantis has done anything that he shouldn't have, it's that the Trump core will buy anything that is Trump branded, and will never in a million years buy anything not Trump branded, no matter if it agrees with them 100%. They will find whatever excuse that it isn't good enough.

It's not worth trying to capture the Trump base, because no one else is Trump, and that is the only thing they care about. There is a reason why certain terms have been bandied about, because they are accurate, and no, using those terms is not going to scare them off, because they have no intention of doing anything but supporting Trump and only Trump.

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...