OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Ron DeSantis*** thread...

454,062 Views | 9101 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by BD88
LMCane
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TRM said:

Surprised Dasha Burns admitted it.

Have to give credit where credit is due

that's an "admission against interest" as they say in the legal field

NBC and all of the news do not want DeSantis as the nominee as Trump gives them ratings and a leftist victory in November 2024.

so for her to actually do REPORTING from the ground is impressive.

this is the way- win Iowa!
LMCane
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DD88 said:

DeSantis gains 8 points in Iowa after the debate.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/iowa/

In the Public Opinion Strategies for 8/19-21 Trump led DeSantis 42-14% (Vivek at 10) and 51-34% head-to-head.
In their 8/24 post debate poll, Trump's lead dropped to 41-21% (Haley at 11, Vivek to 7) and 43-40% head to head.

Here's a comparative link between the polls:
https://citizenawarenessproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/IA-Post-Debate-Polling.pdf
Hmm.. is leading 43-40% head to head the same as:

"I'm winning by 50 and 60 points so I don't have to debate!!"
FireAg
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LMCane said:

DD88 said:

DeSantis gains 8 points in Iowa after the debate.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/iowa/

In the Public Opinion Strategies for 8/19-21 Trump led DeSantis 42-14% (Vivek at 10) and 51-34% head-to-head.
In their 8/24 post debate poll, Trump's lead dropped to 41-21% (Haley at 11, Vivek to 7) and 43-40% head to head.

Here's a comparative link between the polls:
https://citizenawarenessproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/IA-Post-Debate-Polling.pdf
Hmm.. is leading 43-40% head to head the same as:

"I'm winning by 50 and 60 points so I don't have to debate!!"

The only downside of Iowa is that it's traditionally a very poor predictor of the R nomination…

For whatever reason, it is a good predictor for D's…
No Spin Ag
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LMCane said:

TRM said:

Surprised Dasha Burns admitted it.

Have to give credit where credit is due

that's an "admission against interest" as they say in the legal field

NBC and all of the news do not want DeSantis as the nominee as Trump gives them ratings and a leftist victory in November 2024.

so for her to actually do REPORTING from the ground is impressive.

this is the way- win Iowa!


One state at a time and build momentum off each one.

Desantis '24
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
FireAg
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LMCane said:

Trump gives them ratings and a leftist victory in November 2024.

The data simply doesn't support this assertion at this time…
LMCane
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FireAg said:

LMCane said:

DD88 said:

DeSantis gains 8 points in Iowa after the debate.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/iowa/

In the Public Opinion Strategies for 8/19-21 Trump led DeSantis 42-14% (Vivek at 10) and 51-34% head-to-head.
In their 8/24 post debate poll, Trump's lead dropped to 41-21% (Haley at 11, Vivek to 7) and 43-40% head to head.

Here's a comparative link between the polls:
https://citizenawarenessproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/IA-Post-Debate-Polling.pdf
Hmm.. is leading 43-40% head to head the same as:

"I'm winning by 50 and 60 points so I don't have to debate!!"

The only downside of Iowa is that it's traditionally a very poor predictor of the R nomination…

For whatever reason, it is a good predictor for D's…
You have a valid point historically

however, as Ag93 often states you can't always take precedent and state this is the exact same case

considering Trump's ENTIRE CAMPAIGN is based on "inevitability" and the fact that he is 50 and 60 points ahead of everyone else.

once Trump loses Iowa- it literally changes the entire race the next day when the entire American public sees Trump can be beaten in his own party.
FireAg
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AG
I think this is telling...



I think there is a definite downturn in support for Trump coming out of the first debate...but it looks like Ramaswamy, Haley, and Pence are getting the previous Trump support...

DeSantis has at least stabilized some...
TRM
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AG
Hey Trump did some campaigning.

Rapier108
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TRM said:

Hey Trump did some campaigning.


Trump campaign playing fast and loose with the numbers again.

Of course, the numbers could be correct, if it includes people who called in from across the country and not just those states. More than enough die hard followers who would call into every single event simply so they can bask in the presence of their god.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
aggie93
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TRM said:

Hey Trump did some campaigning.


Actually it was eleventy billiion!
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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Does anyone honestly think Trump is up for days like DeSantis puts in if he is elected President again?


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
LMCane
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Will Trump and his supporters be bragging about THIS poll today?

A new Emerson College Polling survey of U.S. voters following the August Republican Primary debate finds half of Republican Primary voters (50%) plan to vote for Donald Trump,

the lowest support to date for the former President in Emerson national polls.

Trump's support has dropped by six percentage points since last week's pre-debate national poll.

Brilliant 5D Chess move to not debate leads to 6 point loss
LMCane
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Of those who have heard, seen, or read a lot or a little about Trump's interview with Tucker Carlson on the same evening as the debate-

46% say they are less likely to support Trump based on this interview.

Emerson College Poll August 29

Lots of bad news for Trump in latest poll
FL_Ag1998
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aggie93 said:

Does anyone honestly think Trump is up for days like DeSantis puts in if he is elected President again?





I'm waiting for the Trump supporters to explain how Trump's basement campaign version 2.0 is any different from Biden's basement campaign version 1.0 from four years ago.
LMCane
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FL_Ag1998 said:

aggie93 said:

Does anyone honestly think Trump is up for days like DeSantis puts in if he is elected President again?





I'm waiting for the Trump supporters to explain how Trump's basement campaign version 2.0 is any different from Biden's basement campaign version 1.0 from four years ago.
clearly it's because Trump can't campaign because of the Deep State

while Biden couldn't campaign because of the made up COVID disease!

duh..

of course, now ask Trump if he still agrees with shutting down the country and turning it over to Fauci.
Ag with kids
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aggie93 said:

TRM said:

Hey Trump did some campaigning.


Actually it was eleventy billiion!
It was the best call. Probably no call has ever been better.

It will be in the Call Hall of Fame soon.
Old May Banker
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If only he hadn't already made the "perfect" phone call to Ukraine.
FireAg
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LMCane said:

Will Trump and his supporters be bragging about THIS poll today?

A new Emerson College Polling survey of U.S. voters following the August Republican Primary debate finds half of Republican Primary voters (50%) plan to vote for Donald Trump,

the lowest support to date for the former President in Emerson national polls.

Trump's support has dropped by six percentage points since last week's pre-debate national poll.

Brilliant 5D Chess move to not debate leads to 6 point loss
But then the Harris/Messenger Poll comes out this morning, and it shows that where Trump is losing voters, they seem to be gravitating toward Ramaswamy or the rest of the field, but not to DeSantis...

That's where I think the problem is...folks might have growing disfavor of Trump, but DeSantis is not benefiting from that disfavor...at least not yet...

Maybe it changes if he can pull off the win in Iowa and generate a little momentum, but the reviews from debate #1 were mixed at best...
Captn_Ag05
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TRM said:

Hey Trump did some campaigning.


And that was just his probation officers.
FireAg
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Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...
BigBrother
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FireAg said:

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...
I agree with you. He needs the entire focus of his campaign to be about past/present Republicans who talked conservative and governed liberal (Bush, Trump, etc) and he's proven himself different. Talk vs Action. It's, by far, his biggest advantage over anyone.
TRM
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AG
It's poll that's partially online. I wouldn't trust it that much.
agz win
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BigBrother said:

FireAg said:

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...
I agree with you. He needs the entire focus of his campaign to be about past/present Republicans who talked conservative and governed liberal (Bush, Trump, etc) and he's proven himself different. Talk vs Action. It's, by far, his biggest advantage over anyone.

He's been doing that by focusing on his proactive governing of the State and looking forward rather than back as a problem solver. To look back by promoting the GOP failed in past candidates elected is not the way to go.
No Spin Ag
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FL_Ag1998 said:

aggie93 said:

Does anyone honestly think Trump is up for days like DeSantis puts in if he is elected President again?





I'm waiting for the Trump supporters to explain how Trump's basement campaign version 2.0 is any different from Biden's basement campaign version 1.0 from four years ago.


They were against it before orange dear leader did it, so now they're for it.

If Trump does it, they're all good with it, even if he was leading them to be against it before.

As the kids say on the Twitter/X thing: Not. A. Cult.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
aggie93
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BigBrother said:

FireAg said:

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...
I agree with you. He needs the entire focus of his campaign to be about past/present Republicans who talked conservative and governed liberal (Bush, Trump, etc) and he's proven himself different. Talk vs Action. It's, by far, his biggest advantage over anyone.

I think he has some positives and negatives to his campaign so far. He's putting a huge focus on ground game and Iowa which I like. Message wise he did a good job of getting across "These guys are talking about doing things I have already done." and most people view him as the only person that could realistically beat Trump.

I would like to see him continue to do confrontational interviews as I think he has done well so far in those venues. I agree he doesn't have a real slogan outside of "Never Back Down" and "Decline is a choice" which I think are good but haven't caught fire. That said a big part of his appeal is he is genuine and low drama and he is best when he is himself, he needs to be careful not to try to be a showman when that isn't who he is because he will look fake.

The biggest challenge though is he is truly being attacked on all sides. The Democrats and MSM have done all they can to push every negative story on his campaign and even dreamed some up. Trump is lying his ass off about him and many of his supporters now believe things that are just not true. vivek is running as the Trump surrogate and thus making DeSantis look less supportive of the "Trump is being persecuted" group because Vivek isn't actually trying to beat Trump. Haley is taking some of the traditional GOP voters as well as some of the other candidates who are definitely not voting Trump but don't love DeSantis because of policy (though they will almost certainly vote DeSantis over Trump). Then of course Trump is sucking up so much oxygen it's very hard for DeSantis to shine.

Still a lot of time though and DeSantis has to figure it out, or not. We will see.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
LMCane
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aggie93 said:

BigBrother said:

FireAg said:

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...
I agree with you. He needs the entire focus of his campaign to be about past/present Republicans who talked conservative and governed liberal (Bush, Trump, etc) and he's proven himself different. Talk vs Action. It's, by far, his biggest advantage over anyone.

I think he has some positives and negatives to his campaign so far. He's putting a huge focus on ground game and Iowa which I like. Message wise he did a good job of getting across "These guys are talking about doing things I have already done." and most people view him as the only person that could realistically beat Trump.

I would like to see him continue to do confrontational interviews as I think he has done well so far in those venues. I agree he doesn't have a real slogan outside of "Never Back Down" and "Decline is a choice" which I think are good but haven't caught fire. That said a big part of his appeal is he is genuine and low drama and he is best when he is himself, he needs to be careful not to try to be a showman when that isn't who he is because he will look fake.

The biggest challenge though is he is truly being attacked on all sides. The Democrats and MSM have done all they can to push every negative story on his campaign and even dreamed some up. Trump is lying his ass off about him and many of his supporters now believe things that are just not true. vivek is running as the Trump surrogate and thus making DeSantis look less supportive of the "Trump is being persecuted" group because Vivek isn't actually trying to beat Trump. Haley is taking some of the traditional GOP voters as well as some of the other candidates who are definitely not voting Trump but don't love DeSantis because of policy (though they will almost certainly vote DeSantis over Trump). Then of course Trump is sucking up so much oxygen it's very hard for DeSantis to shine.

Still a lot of time though and DeSantis has to figure it out, or not. We will see.

Here is the disagreement-

DeSantis has run an excellent campaign.

he has crushed it in interviews, he did well in the debate. he has a huge amount of victories in florida. he is campaigning like crazy.

just because many GOP voters are dummies who back Trump has nothing to do with the campaign DeSantis has been running.

It's like saying Ronald Reagan was a bad politician because he LOST TO GERALD FORD in 1976.

it's not that Reagan made mistakes or was not a good candidate. it was because Republican primary voters were dummies who chose "loyalty to the "incumbent" over the new guy.
FireAg
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I wonder if there is something around the idea that others "talk the talk", but he "walks the walk" (or something along those lines) that he could maybe start driving in his messaging...and yeah, for better or worse, I think it needs to by catchy...

I also wonder if he would endear himself more to the Trump voting bloc if he started pushing the idea of pardoning Trump like Ramaswamy has done?

Honestly, that's a good way to attack Trump with kindness and take some of the air out of his sails..."I think President Trump has been wrongly persecuted, and one of my first acts when taking office will be to issue a pardon to him in order to put an end to all of this senseless nonsense that has derailed our country"...
FireAg
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LMCane said:

aggie93 said:

BigBrother said:

FireAg said:

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...
I agree with you. He needs the entire focus of his campaign to be about past/present Republicans who talked conservative and governed liberal (Bush, Trump, etc) and he's proven himself different. Talk vs Action. It's, by far, his biggest advantage over anyone.

I think he has some positives and negatives to his campaign so far. He's putting a huge focus on ground game and Iowa which I like. Message wise he did a good job of getting across "These guys are talking about doing things I have already done." and most people view him as the only person that could realistically beat Trump.

I would like to see him continue to do confrontational interviews as I think he has done well so far in those venues. I agree he doesn't have a real slogan outside of "Never Back Down" and "Decline is a choice" which I think are good but haven't caught fire. That said a big part of his appeal is he is genuine and low drama and he is best when he is himself, he needs to be careful not to try to be a showman when that isn't who he is because he will look fake.

The biggest challenge though is he is truly being attacked on all sides. The Democrats and MSM have done all they can to push every negative story on his campaign and even dreamed some up. Trump is lying his ass off about him and many of his supporters now believe things that are just not true. vivek is running as the Trump surrogate and thus making DeSantis look less supportive of the "Trump is being persecuted" group because Vivek isn't actually trying to beat Trump. Haley is taking some of the traditional GOP voters as well as some of the other candidates who are definitely not voting Trump but don't love DeSantis because of policy (though they will almost certainly vote DeSantis over Trump). Then of course Trump is sucking up so much oxygen it's very hard for DeSantis to shine.

Still a lot of time though and DeSantis has to figure it out, or not. We will see.

Here is the disagreement-

DeSantis has run an excellent campaign.

he has crushed it in interviews, he did well in the debate. he has a huge amount of victories in florida. he is campaigning like crazy.

just because many GOP voters are dummies who back Trump has nothing to do with the campaign DeSantis has been running.

It's like saying Ronald Reagan was a bad politician because he LOST TO GERALD FORD in 1976.

it's not that Reagan made mistakes or was not a good candidate. it was because Republican primary voters were dummies who chose "loyalty to the "incumbent" over the new guy.
The only scorecard that matters at the end of the day is whether or not he wins the primary...

If you want him to win the primary, he has got to start pulling in those voters who are wavering on their Trump support...right now, he isn't...

YOU might think he has run an "excellent campaign", but if doesn't result in his nomination, respectfully...who cares?

He needs to win the nomination...or his campaign will be forgotten along with all the other also-ran's...
aggie93
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AG
FireAg said:

LMCane said:

Will Trump and his supporters be bragging about THIS poll today?

A new Emerson College Polling survey of U.S. voters following the August Republican Primary debate finds half of Republican Primary voters (50%) plan to vote for Donald Trump,

the lowest support to date for the former President in Emerson national polls.

Trump's support has dropped by six percentage points since last week's pre-debate national poll.

Brilliant 5D Chess move to not debate leads to 6 point loss
But then the Harris/Messenger Poll comes out this morning, and it shows that where Trump is losing voters, they seem to be gravitating toward Ramaswamy or the rest of the field, but not to DeSantis...

That's where I think the problem is...folks might have growing disfavor of Trump, but DeSantis is not benefiting from that disfavor...at least not yet...

Maybe it changes if he can pull off the win in Iowa and generate a little momentum, but the reviews from debate #1 were mixed at best...
Some polls have shown DeSantis gaining a good bit of ground though, 2 showed him getting over 20% and Trump in the low 40s. I don't see Vivek as a viable alternative in the end and he is going to eventually hit the wall of talk vs results against DeSantis. The key for DeSantis is to get Trump's numbers down and make people realize that while they may sympathize with him he won't win the General. Then it's a matter of beating out everyone else. That's very doable because he is the most acceptable candidate across all groups, very few people truly hate him and wouldn't support him.

Shapiro had an interesting perspective on the debate where he talked about how the different candidates are going after different groups within the GOP and then graded each candidate within those groups. All of the candidates have at least one faction within the GOP that they are an "F" with except DeSantis who is probably least liked by the hardcore NeverTrump Christie crowd (probably a "C") and generally a B with the others (Hardcore MAGA, MAGA Adjacent, and Traditional Republican). He's just not really an "A" with any of them as of now. Hardcore MAGA likes Trump the most and Vivek 2nd, Adjacent MAGA is probably split with Vivek and DeSantis, Traditional Republican likes Haley or maybe Pence or Scott, NeverTrump likes Christie. How many of those folks stick around though?

DeSantis has been playing the long game and that has positives and negatives. He's avoiding mistakes but he's also not making big splashes. Have to see how it plays out in the end but inevitably this is a marathon and not a sprint. Obviously the biggest issue is if Trump either runs away with it or he does something to really damage himself and make people believe he can't win. I don't see any of the other candidates beating DeSantis straight up, none of them have any real organization behind them at all.

We will see.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
FireAg
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I think if he floated the idea of a Trump pardon he would 1) take wind out of Trump's sails 2) catch the eye of the Trump voting bloc, and 3) get the MSM talking about his desire to pardon Trump (granted, a lot of the coverage from MSM would be anti-pardon, but it would definitely make waves and get people talking about him)...
aggie93
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FireAg said:

I wonder if there is something around the idea that others "talk the talk", but he "walks the walk" (or something along those lines) that he could maybe start driving in his messaging...and yeah, for better or worse, I think it needs to by catchy...

I also wonder if he would endear himself more to the Trump voting bloc if he started pushing the idea of pardoning Trump like Ramaswamy has done?

Honestly, that's a good way to attack Trump with kindness and take some of the air out of his sails..."I think President Trump has been wrongly persecuted, and one of my first acts when taking office will be to issue a pardon to him in order to put an end to all of this senseless nonsense that has derailed our country"...
He has already said that he doesn't think there is anything to gain from prosecuting or jailing Trump and the country needs to move on. The trick about a full on pardon promise is it has negative implications as well. All the evidence hasn't come out yet and it forces him to focus one talking about Trump AGAIN. Vivek doesn't care because he isn't actually worried about winning, I mean it is kind of like how he came out and said that Pence should have just changed all the voting laws as if he has magic powers. DeSantis is actually thinking about consequences.

He's spoken extensively about the 2 Tiered Justice system and one thing I do think he has been smart about is making sure to bring up examples BESIDES Trump. He talks about the Pro Life advocates who have been persecuted for instance. He has made this about reforming the system and not about saving Trump. In the end though there is nothing, literally nothing that DeSantis could say or do in support of Trump that would be enough. Vivek will do more and no one is more loyal to Trump than Trump so it's a trick. The goal is to get him to take the next step and drop out and get behind Trump and DeSantis isn't going to fall into that trap.

In the end DeSantis has been by fear the friendliest to Trump outside of Vivek and is aligned on most issues. DeSantis is looking for a flame out by Vivek or a moment where people see DeSantis as the adult. The Newsom debate is a huge opportunity for him.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Old May Banker
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FireAg said:

I think if he floated the idea of a Trump pardon he would 1) take wind out of Trump's sails 2) catch the eye of the Trump voting bloc, and 3) get the MSM talking about his desire to pardon Trump (granted, a lot of the coverage from MSM would be anti-pardon, but it would definitely make waves and get people talking about him)...

He has already all but said - numerous times, "I will pardon Trump and make the nonsense end"
aggie93
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LMCane said:

aggie93 said:

BigBrother said:

FireAg said:

Speaking with a conservative political activist (and Aggie) this morning about why DeSantis struggles to gain momentum...

His opinion is that he needs a rallying cry or two to focus his message...

He needs his version of "Build the wall" and/or "Lock her up"...

He agrees that DeSantis has great ideas, has been an outstanding conservative governor (with skins on the wall in terms of results), but he lacks the charisma that gets folks to rally behind him en masse...

He thinks a focused slogan that rallies the masses behind his message is desperately needed...

He noted that Ramaswamy seems to be able to rally folks behind his message of "anti-Ukraine war" and "pardon Trump", for better or worse...

Thought he had some interesting insight...
I agree with you. He needs the entire focus of his campaign to be about past/present Republicans who talked conservative and governed liberal (Bush, Trump, etc) and he's proven himself different. Talk vs Action. It's, by far, his biggest advantage over anyone.

I think he has some positives and negatives to his campaign so far. He's putting a huge focus on ground game and Iowa which I like. Message wise he did a good job of getting across "These guys are talking about doing things I have already done." and most people view him as the only person that could realistically beat Trump.

I would like to see him continue to do confrontational interviews as I think he has done well so far in those venues. I agree he doesn't have a real slogan outside of "Never Back Down" and "Decline is a choice" which I think are good but haven't caught fire. That said a big part of his appeal is he is genuine and low drama and he is best when he is himself, he needs to be careful not to try to be a showman when that isn't who he is because he will look fake.

The biggest challenge though is he is truly being attacked on all sides. The Democrats and MSM have done all they can to push every negative story on his campaign and even dreamed some up. Trump is lying his ass off about him and many of his supporters now believe things that are just not true. vivek is running as the Trump surrogate and thus making DeSantis look less supportive of the "Trump is being persecuted" group because Vivek isn't actually trying to beat Trump. Haley is taking some of the traditional GOP voters as well as some of the other candidates who are definitely not voting Trump but don't love DeSantis because of policy (though they will almost certainly vote DeSantis over Trump). Then of course Trump is sucking up so much oxygen it's very hard for DeSantis to shine.

Still a lot of time though and DeSantis has to figure it out, or not. We will see.

Here is the disagreement-

DeSantis has run an excellent campaign.

he has crushed it in interviews, he did well in the debate. he has a huge amount of victories in florida. he is campaigning like crazy.

just because many GOP voters are dummies who back Trump has nothing to do with the campaign DeSantis has been running.

It's like saying Ronald Reagan was a bad politician because he LOST TO GERALD FORD in 1976.

it's not that Reagan made mistakes or was not a good candidate. it was because Republican primary voters were dummies who chose "loyalty to the "incumbent" over the new guy.
I don't think you can objectively say his campaign has been excellent due to the poll numbers. That said I don't think it has been terrible or nearly as bad as many Trump folks try to claim. I think he has done some things very well but I think he has missed some opportunities but that's how campaigns work. The key is how do you adjust and continue forward. I think his biggest strengths have been fundraising, keeping an even keel, ground game, and focus on Iowa. He has also performed very well in interviews and was good in the debate. He just needs to do more of it and get in more hostile venues. He does well in them so why not do more?

DeSantis is running a long game campaign and I think that's a wise strategy, still there is always room for improvement.
FireAg
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AG
"DeSantis Vows to Pardon Trump, End 'Unfair Persecution' of Former President" would be a helluva headline grab and get people's attention...hell...he could pen an Op-Ed for the NYT or something along those lines...

It would be a backhanded attack on Trump and show him as weaker than he professes to be (i.e. DeSantis can save him and Trump needs DeSantis to save him), while offering an olive branch to his supporters...

Not really sure most folks give two craps about "evidence" and what "might still be uncovered"... Most folks think it's nonsense anyway and any evidence is either loosely interpreted or completely fabricated...

Ramaswamy saying it isn't nearly as powerful because he still doesn't have the following of DeSantis...

If DeSantis said it though...I think it would get people talking about him...and then he could follow it up with something like "Finish the wall" or "I walk while others talk"...
TRM
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aggie93 said:

FireAg said:

I wonder if there is something around the idea that others "talk the talk", but he "walks the walk" (or something along those lines) that he could maybe start driving in his messaging...and yeah, for better or worse, I think it needs to by catchy...

I also wonder if he would endear himself more to the Trump voting bloc if he started pushing the idea of pardoning Trump like Ramaswamy has done?

Honestly, that's a good way to attack Trump with kindness and take some of the air out of his sails..."I think President Trump has been wrongly persecuted, and one of my first acts when taking office will be to issue a pardon to him in order to put an end to all of this senseless nonsense that has derailed our country"...
He has already said that he doesn't think there is anything to gain from prosecuting or jailing Trump and the country needs to move on. The trick about a full on pardon promise is it has negative implications as well. All the evidence hasn't come out yet and it forces him to focus one talking about Trump AGAIN. Vivek doesn't care because he isn't actually worried about winning, I mean it is kind of like how he came out and said that Pence should have just changed all the voting laws as if he has magic powers. DeSantis is actually thinking about consequences.

He's spoken extensively about the 2 Tiered Justice system and one thing I do think he has been smart about is making sure to bring up examples BESIDES Trump. He talks about the Pro Life advocates who have been persecuted for instance. He has made this about reforming the system and not about saving Trump. In the end though there is nothing, literally nothing that DeSantis could say or do in support of Trump that would be enough. Vivek will do more and no one is more loyal to Trump than Trump so it's a trick. The goal is to get him to take the next step and drop out and get behind Trump and DeSantis isn't going to fall into that trap.

In the end DeSantis has been by fear the friendliest to Trump outside of Vivek and is aligned on most issues. DeSantis is looking for a flame out by Vivek or a moment where people see DeSantis as the adult. The Newsom debate is a huge opportunity for him.
Even when Burns pressed him about Trump in their interview 2-3 weeks ago. He went on to say the weaponization is not only about Trump, but pro-life activists, the parent at the school boards, the Catholic inquiry, etc. DeSantis is making the case to the general public, particularly, independents that hate Trump. The hardcore base may care more about Trump, but like with everything else it's not all about him.
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