Congrats on allowing yourself to be radicalized
OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Ron DeSantis*** thread...
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Last: 24 days ago by BD88
I'm confident that Trump will use this trial to finally put forth the iron-clad proof that the election was stolen.
Soso nikinombiki maaki dii.
If you want to consider someone turned off by what Trump has done as being radicalized, I guess I am radicalized. It seems like an easy way to dismiss counterpoints, though. I just have reasons why I vote Republican, not just because it isn't Democrat, so simply being "not Biden" isn't enough for me.texagbeliever said:
Congrats on allowing yourself to be radicalized
Phatbob said:I used to think that, but the way he has behaved since even before the election has made me not think that anymore. I truly believe we will be in a worse place in 4 years if he is president. Not as bad as with Biden, but still worse than now.texagbeliever said:
That's fine, it is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Agreed, because he doesn't know how to handle the position now. Who in their right mind would tie their political career to this guy?
What would he get done?
I don't see him being a successful president even if he somehow wins. It bothers me greatly that conservatives don't care about policy as much as I thought.
Phatbob said:If you want to consider someone turned off by what Trump has done as being radicalized, I guess I am radicalized. It seems like an easy way to dismiss counterpoints, though. I just have reasons why I vote Republican, not just because it isn't Democrat, so simply being "not Biden" isn't enough for me.texagbeliever said:
Congrats on allowing yourself to be radicalized
Yes 2017-2020 were the same as 2021-2023 for freedom, weaponizing of federal government and foreign wars. You are going to dig yourself into a deep hole on this train of thought.
texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
You have to include all of 2020 under Trumps watch. 1. Covid 2.He waaaayy overspent and we would be dealing with the economic fallout no matter who was in the White House, and 3.he found a way to let the Democrats get to him. We don't have 2016 Trump anymore, we have 2023 Trump. Where 2016 Trump may have found a way to get some things done, 2023 Trump is a whack job. Is it him that changed, or the environment that he works under? Likely both, but we can't just point to a world that doesn't exist anymore and say he is the right guy for that world.texagbeliever said:Phatbob said:If you want to consider someone turned off by what Trump has done as being radicalized, I guess I am radicalized. It seems like an easy way to dismiss counterpoints, though. I just have reasons why I vote Republican, not just because it isn't Democrat, so simply being "not Biden" isn't enough for me.texagbeliever said:
Congrats on allowing yourself to be radicalized
Yes 2017-2020 were the same as 2021-2023 for freedom, weaponizing of federal government and foreign wars. You are going to dig yourself into a deep hole on this train of thought.
What a great grift.
Raise 12.5% of your net worth. All at the risk of going to jail for the rest of your life as a political prisoner. That is so plausible. Lol
Raise 12.5% of your net worth. All at the risk of going to jail for the rest of your life as a political prisoner. That is so plausible. Lol
Phatbob said:I used to think that, but the way he has behaved since even before the election has made me not think that anymore. I truly believe we will be in a worse place in 4 years if he is president. Not as bad as with Biden, but still worse than now.texagbeliever said:
That's fine, it is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Agreed. It'll be a better 4 years than if Biden is re-elected but I don't think trump can turn the current tide of **** we're experiencing.
I'm also concerned by his seeming inability to pass off power. I think he will be insistent on his guy getting preferential treatment for 2028. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to pump his son as his successor. He's joked about a 3rd term because the first one was hampered by the Dems. They may have screwed him during the first term, but joking about a 3rd is something I find unsettling.
In short, as long as trump is around, it's the trump show. It's all about him, all the time. We can do much better
Ah but you miss the real point. Trump is going to be convicted on this indictment, that's really not in question. This judge is the worst imaginable and she is going to have the trial in DC which is 90% Blue. That's essentially like saying you are unsure of the outcome of a case being tried on MSNBC with Joy Reed as the Judge. That's actually not even the worst part. The worst part is Judge will manipulate the timing of the proceedings to favor Democrats as much as possible. She will do everything she can to keep up the outrage at what she is doing and will give Trump some ridiculous sentence afterward.texagbeliever said:
Guy makes good points then his bias shows.
I believe I posted months ago how DeSantis is the Republican safety net if the Democrats take down Trump. The more success DeSantis has is actually protection for Trump. The more success Trump has is protection for DeSantis. Really just Trump being in it is protection for DeSantis.
The RNC gave themselves 2 avenues for victory. They are now just waiting for the Democrats to pick the winning strategy. That is why Fire and I are trying to help yall realize you are not helping the cause.
If Trump holds off and wins the indictment he will be vindicated and will be bolstered to huge success. If he loses and DeSantis rises then it will be a huge rally to DeSantis and he will win. That is the future. Conservatives are in a good spot.
Let's also not forget about the other 3 legal cases in flux (FL, GA, and NY).
The point of the Democrats is not to worry about the facts at all, it is to distract and win. I completely understand this is a lot to absorb and is deeply unfair but this has been the Democrat plan all along and we can either be proactive or reactive to it. Any way you slice it they have Trump checkmated here and they have backup plans. Now you can get angry that DeSantis can benefit from that but DeSantis didn't do this and his supporters pointing out facts instead of either sitting back quietly or worse buying into the madness that Trump isn't screwed isn't productive.
I do agree that DeSantis folks need to be as diplomatic as possible and I think Deace is doing so. As did Jesse Kelly yesterday. I also know it won't matter to many Trump supporters. I would post some stuff from them from Twitter but I would get in trouble for bypassing filters, they are filled with rage and cursing and calling DeSantis horrific things for the outrage that he won't drop out and give Trump all his money. Trump is actively encouraging the madness with his own rage posting. These aren't just any supporters these are primary influencers paid by Trump. I mean do you think that strategy has any chance of success? At all?
Personally I am treating this as a shock moment and a mourning period to follow but Trump's chances of winning the General were officially killed yesterday with the announcement of that Judge. I honestly was hoping it would be on a debate stage or in some issues oriented way but the end result is the same. I know that will take time for Trump supporters to accept it and I know there will be a lot of anger and blame spewed but it still doesn't change the reality. Everyone has their own timeline but inevitably Trump is not going to be elected President in November of 2024.
I would agree with you that DeSantis folks should try to tread lightly as they can, there is a deep emotional attachment to Trump and this is going to be a rough process for some to accept it and some never will.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
With all due respect...do you honestly think a D SoS could unilaterally use the power of their office, along with their personal understanding of the 14th Amendment, to remove a duly-nominated R nominee from their state ballot without any repercussions? There would literally be rioting in the streets if that happened... Many R's still believe (granted you aren't one of them, but it doesn't change the perceptions of many) 2020 was stolen... What would they say if D SoS's just removed the R nominee from the general ballot? I mean, the "fix" would obviously be in at that point, right?TRM said:If they get Trump as the nominee, they can remove him and Joe can stay in his basement essentially stacking the deck against him.FireAg said:TRM said:Remember some libs want to use the 14th amendment to remove Trump from the ballot. Dem SoS would do that in AZ, WI, MI, and PA and sink any GOP chance before the general election even gets started.FireAg said:
Is there a path the RNC can take to remove Trump from the primary ballots, at least in key states?
I'm not sure there is a loophole available where it can be done, but I do think that would be the best path for DeSantis to win the nomination…
Most voters, even proclaimed hardliners, are too lazy to take the time to write someone in…even Trump…
I think if the RNC wants DeSantis to be the guy, they need to get Trump out of the way by hook or by crook…
Would they? I thought D's wanted TRUMP, not DESANTIS, as the R challenger in 2024…
Isn't that why many polls are showing Trump with a huge lead…to help propel a losing name to the top of the ballot? Isn't that why D's continue to pursue indictments and prosecute absolutely bogus crimes…because that fires up the Trump base and keeps him at the top so he can be the R nominee and thus easily defeated in 2024?
So why would D SOS's want to help Republicans win the White House in 2024 by ensuring DeSantis is the nominee?
You can't have it both ways…either Ds want him as the nominee because it's an easy win for Ds, or Ds are scared to death of him and know they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat twice to defeat him…
So if you truly believe the Ds are playing 4D chess and want to force Trump to be the nominee in 2024, why on God's green earth would D SOS's want to REMOVE him from their respective state's primary ballots?
No…if you truly believe the D's want to run against Trump in 2024, then as R's who think Trump is a losing proposition, you have to accept that it is only R's with the power to do so (if that even exists as a possibility) are the only ones who can prevent it by removing him by hook or by crook from primary ballots…. The D's, based on many of your OWN ARGUMENTS, would have ZERO incentive to do so because it will be incredibly easy to beat Trump in 2024 and maintain 4 more years of liberal power in the Oval Office…
No, if Trump is the nominee after the primaries (and right now, I think that's exactly how it is going to play out if nothing changes), he WILL be the R candidate on the ballot in every single state, and the D's, if they can't beat him straight up, they will do it under cover of darkness (like I believe they did in 2020, and others believe they did legally)...
Here's the thing, though...several folks continue to claim that the D's are 1) artificially pumping up Trump to be the R in the 2024 general using slanted polling and/or are 2) continuing to chase him with false crime indictments so as to embolden his base to make sure he gets enough votes to be the R nominee in 2024 because "even a mindless ape like Biden can beat Trump"...
It doesn't make sense to get him on the general just to have some states remove him from their ballots in 2024 because that would be grounds for a constitutional crisis, and if you though people were outraged in 2020...just try something like that in 2024 and see what happens...
So, given everything I have noted above, what could be an alternative explanation? My opinion is that Trump's polling averages have D's (and the establishment at large) worried, and they are worried because again, in my opinion, they don't think they will be able to stop him with the same tricks they used in 2020, so they again, need to either get creative to come up with a new scheme that watchful eyes aren't looking for this time around on Election Day, or they need to have him in prison as a felon, thus disqualifying him as a Presidential candidate...
And I think...again my opinion...the clock is ticking, and they know it...
I read your pist too hastily. I think what you said all sounds reasonable. I think others are more of the potbanger variety. The key is to let the enemy make the mistake and then move. Much like in Chess, you don't win by being brilliant you win by taking advantage of opponents mistakes.
Note i dont think you are as much of a pot banger but you have your moments. And I do say this as someone who has certainly been consumed and fallen for that same approach and viewpoint. So I'm not holier or smarter here I just saw how that mindset was a drag on me and my ability to think clearly and act to get the future I wanted.
Note i dont think you are as much of a pot banger but you have your moments. And I do say this as someone who has certainly been consumed and fallen for that same approach and viewpoint. So I'm not holier or smarter here I just saw how that mindset was a drag on me and my ability to think clearly and act to get the future I wanted.
You haven't been paying attention to what these people are doing.
Again, what is the downside from them doing so? Worst case we have a Constitutional Crisis and some sort of violence comes about... isn't that what they have been trying to get for years now? They have no downsides here.FireAg said:With all due respect...do you honestly think a D SoS could unilaterally use the power of their office, along with their personal understanding of the 14th Amendment, to remove a duly-nominated R nominee from their state ballot without any repercussions? There would literally be rioting in the streets if that happened... Many R's still believe (granted you aren't one of them, but it doesn't change the perceptions of many) 2020 was stolen... What would they say if D SoS's just removed the R nominee from the general ballot? I mean, the "fix" would obviously be in at that point, right?TRM said:If they get Trump as the nominee, they can remove him and Joe can stay in his basement essentially stacking the deck against him.FireAg said:TRM said:Remember some libs want to use the 14th amendment to remove Trump from the ballot. Dem SoS would do that in AZ, WI, MI, and PA and sink any GOP chance before the general election even gets started.FireAg said:
Is there a path the RNC can take to remove Trump from the primary ballots, at least in key states?
I'm not sure there is a loophole available where it can be done, but I do think that would be the best path for DeSantis to win the nomination…
Most voters, even proclaimed hardliners, are too lazy to take the time to write someone in…even Trump…
I think if the RNC wants DeSantis to be the guy, they need to get Trump out of the way by hook or by crook…
Would they? I thought D's wanted TRUMP, not DESANTIS, as the R challenger in 2024…
Isn't that why many polls are showing Trump with a huge lead…to help propel a losing name to the top of the ballot? Isn't that why D's continue to pursue indictments and prosecute absolutely bogus crimes…because that fires up the Trump base and keeps him at the top so he can be the R nominee and thus easily defeated in 2024?
So why would D SOS's want to help Republicans win the White House in 2024 by ensuring DeSantis is the nominee?
You can't have it both ways…either Ds want him as the nominee because it's an easy win for Ds, or Ds are scared to death of him and know they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat twice to defeat him…
So if you truly believe the Ds are playing 4D chess and want to force Trump to be the nominee in 2024, why on God's green earth would D SOS's want to REMOVE him from their respective state's primary ballots?
No…if you truly believe the D's want to run against Trump in 2024, then as R's who think Trump is a losing proposition, you have to accept that it is only R's with the power to do so (if that even exists as a possibility) are the only ones who can prevent it by removing him by hook or by crook from primary ballots…. The D's, based on many of your OWN ARGUMENTS, would have ZERO incentive to do so because it will be incredibly easy to beat Trump in 2024 and maintain 4 more years of liberal power in the Oval Office…
No, if Trump is the nominee after the primaries (and right now, I think that's exactly how it is going to play out if nothing changes), he WILL be the R candidate on the ballot in every single state, and the D's, if they can't beat him straight up, they will do it under cover of darkness (like I believe they did in 2020, and others believe they did legally)...
Here's the thing, though...several folks continue to claim that the D's are 1) artificially pumping up Trump to be the R in the 2024 general using slanted polling and/or are 2) continuing to chase him with false crime indictments so as to embolden his base to make sure he gets enough votes to be the R nominee in 2024 because "even a mindless ape like Biden can beat Trump"...
It doesn't make sense to get him on the general just to have some states remove him from their ballots in 2024 because that would be grounds for a constitutional crisis, and if you though people were outraged in 2020...just try something like that in 2024 and see what happens...
So, given everything I have noted above, what could be an alternative explanation? My opinion is that Trump's polling averages have D's (and the establishment at large) worried, and they are worried because again, in my opinion, they don't think they will be able to stop him with the same tricks they used in 2020, so they again, need to either get creative to come up with a new scheme that watchful eyes aren't looking for this time around on Election Day, or they need to have him in prison as a felon, thus disqualifying him as a Presidential candidate...
And I think...again my opinion...the clock is ticking, and they know it...
The truth is, this election was "rigged" but not in the way Always and Forever Trumpers were claiming. It was rigged though, by weaponized federal agencies colluding with big tech and media to influence the election through suppression of news and dissemination of misinformation/propaganda in clear favor of one particular party/candidate. I don't see how that could be debated, although every leftist would say "nuh uh!".J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
The Trump cult would have more credibility if they focused on that aspect...along with the super convenient lab leaked virus from China in 2020 that rolled out the red carpet for widescale mail-in voting. That was also a monumental game changer. So many people voted who otherwise would have never.
And yes, Trump is so detestable to so many, that it galvanized people to vote for anyone but him. So many ordinary non-leftist soccer moms are simply repulsed by him.
Believe it or not, I agree with your first sentence... I do think any interference will backfire unless a loophole can be found were someone under felony indictment is barred from being on ballots...aggie93 said:Any attempt to have the RNC interfere with Trump being on primary ballots will backfire. The issue is the General election where there are SoS who will keep Trump off the ballot but by then it will be too late. DeSantis has to win in what is seen as a fair manner or else it will be a real problem.FireAg said:
Is there a path the RNC can take to remove Trump from the primary ballots, at least in key states?
I'm not sure there is a loophole available where it can be done, but I do think that would be the best path for DeSantis to win the nomination…
Most voters, even proclaimed hardliners, are too lazy to take the time to write someone in…even Trump…
I think if the RNC wants DeSantis to be the guy, they need to get Trump out of the way by hook or by crook…
I disagree with part your second sentence...if a D SoS removes Trump's name from their state's ballots in the general, there will be a war...but I do agree, if Trump is the nominee, it will be too late for D SoS's to do anything about it... So, if the D's are going to beat him, they will have to come up with a covert scheme to do so that is beyond what they did in 2020...
I whole heartedly agree with your last sentence...the very BEST thing that could happen is DeSantis winning it on his own merits... In a perfect world, that's what I think we would all like to see happen... My point is, right now, I just don't see how that is going to happen... In my opinion, the Trump inertia is just too great...
We shall see if something significant happens to change that...but I don't see it yet...
Brittmoore Car Club said:The truth is, this election was "rigged" but not in the way Always and Forever Trumpers were claiming. It was rigged though, by weaponized federal agencies colluding with big tech and media to influence the election through suppression of news and dissemination of misinformation/propaganda. I don't see how that could be debated, although every leftist would say "nuh uh!".J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
The Trump cult would have more credibility if they focused on that aspect...along with the super convenient lab leaked virus from China in 2020 that rolled out the red carpet for widescale mail-in voting. That was also a monumental game changer. So many people voted who otherwise would have never.
And yes, Trump is so detestable to so many, that it galvanized people to vote for anyone but him. So many ordinary non-leftist soccer moms are simply repulsed by him.
Yes 4 key swings state all stop counting at midnight and then finding Biden votes. That is clearly above board and thinking something fishy happened is just a conspiracy theory. Oh and 1 stop counting because of a pipe burst...in a different building. Super legit guys.
I actually laid out that some people will never switch teams and others will take time. No control over that. In the end though I can't see a path for Trump now. It thought the path was incredibly narrow before but now it is not only closed off the Democrats have multiple ways to block it should a gap open again. Now if Trump was running a smart and disciplined operation with great lawyers and PR behind him then maybe that would change but that sure as hell isn't the case. He's going to keep making mistakes most likely and get more and more desperate.texagbeliever said:
You act like defeat is assured. It isn't. Even if it is assured you should be patient for that to play out instead of trying to convince everyone you have the crystal ball and to switch teams now. They will naturally switch over once it happens. Unless of course you are a miserable pot banger whose imagination is only capable of thinking in negative and dark outcomes. Which is a trait many possess and is common in intelligent people. Orwell notes this in his forward to Managerial Revolution.
Note i dont think you are as much of a pot banger but you have your moments. And I do say this as someone who has certainly been consumed and fallen for that same approach and viewpoint. So I'm not holier or smarter here I just saw how that mindset was a drag on me and my ability to think clearly and act to get the future I wanted.
You are welcome to disagree with me but I just don't see it beyond an emotional argument how this turns out differently. Remember Trump has a 60-65% Disapproval rating. You get outside of GOP/Trump bubbles and people either despise him or just want him to go away. That was before all of this.
Once again though there is still plenty of time and we will see how it plays out, there is actually some benefit potentially from this keeping up for a while depending on how it goes. If Trump wins the nomination though he is much, much more likely to lose in Goldwater style fashion or worse than he is to pull out some miraculous victory. Hell he hasn't even done a thing to address the ballot harvesting and vote law changes that sunk him before outside of "Give me all your money and I will build a huge ballot harvesting program, trust me!" Yet at the same time you can't even ask what happened to the $250 million to "Stop the Steal"
Believe what you want.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
I'm not proud of the way Trump acts...but to be fair, how would any one of us act if we were in his shoes and constantly battling completely fabricated crimes? I fully admit that I think I would be quite petulant myself...Phatbob said:I used to think that, but the way he has behaved since even before the election has made me not think that anymore. I truly believe we will be in a worse place in 4 years if he is president. Not as bad as with Biden, but still worse than now.texagbeliever said:
That's fine, it is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Phatbob said:Again, what is the downside from them doing so? Worst case we have a Constitutional Crisis and some sort of violence comes about... isn't that what they have been trying to get for years now? They have no downsides here.FireAg said:With all due respect...do you honestly think a D SoS could unilaterally use the power of their office, along with their personal understanding of the 14th Amendment, to remove a duly-nominated R nominee from their state ballot without any repercussions? There would literally be rioting in the streets if that happened... Many R's still believe (granted you aren't one of them, but it doesn't change the perceptions of many) 2020 was stolen... What would they say if D SoS's just removed the R nominee from the general ballot? I mean, the "fix" would obviously be in at that point, right?TRM said:If they get Trump as the nominee, they can remove him and Joe can stay in his basement essentially stacking the deck against him.FireAg said:TRM said:Remember some libs want to use the 14th amendment to remove Trump from the ballot. Dem SoS would do that in AZ, WI, MI, and PA and sink any GOP chance before the general election even gets started.FireAg said:
Is there a path the RNC can take to remove Trump from the primary ballots, at least in key states?
I'm not sure there is a loophole available where it can be done, but I do think that would be the best path for DeSantis to win the nomination…
Most voters, even proclaimed hardliners, are too lazy to take the time to write someone in…even Trump…
I think if the RNC wants DeSantis to be the guy, they need to get Trump out of the way by hook or by crook…
Would they? I thought D's wanted TRUMP, not DESANTIS, as the R challenger in 2024…
Isn't that why many polls are showing Trump with a huge lead…to help propel a losing name to the top of the ballot? Isn't that why D's continue to pursue indictments and prosecute absolutely bogus crimes…because that fires up the Trump base and keeps him at the top so he can be the R nominee and thus easily defeated in 2024?
So why would D SOS's want to help Republicans win the White House in 2024 by ensuring DeSantis is the nominee?
You can't have it both ways…either Ds want him as the nominee because it's an easy win for Ds, or Ds are scared to death of him and know they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat twice to defeat him…
So if you truly believe the Ds are playing 4D chess and want to force Trump to be the nominee in 2024, why on God's green earth would D SOS's want to REMOVE him from their respective state's primary ballots?
No…if you truly believe the D's want to run against Trump in 2024, then as R's who think Trump is a losing proposition, you have to accept that it is only R's with the power to do so (if that even exists as a possibility) are the only ones who can prevent it by removing him by hook or by crook from primary ballots…. The D's, based on many of your OWN ARGUMENTS, would have ZERO incentive to do so because it will be incredibly easy to beat Trump in 2024 and maintain 4 more years of liberal power in the Oval Office…
No, if Trump is the nominee after the primaries (and right now, I think that's exactly how it is going to play out if nothing changes), he WILL be the R candidate on the ballot in every single state, and the D's, if they can't beat him straight up, they will do it under cover of darkness (like I believe they did in 2020, and others believe they did legally)...
Here's the thing, though...several folks continue to claim that the D's are 1) artificially pumping up Trump to be the R in the 2024 general using slanted polling and/or are 2) continuing to chase him with false crime indictments so as to embolden his base to make sure he gets enough votes to be the R nominee in 2024 because "even a mindless ape like Biden can beat Trump"...
It doesn't make sense to get him on the general just to have some states remove him from their ballots in 2024 because that would be grounds for a constitutional crisis, and if you though people were outraged in 2020...just try something like that in 2024 and see what happens...
So, given everything I have noted above, what could be an alternative explanation? My opinion is that Trump's polling averages have D's (and the establishment at large) worried, and they are worried because again, in my opinion, they don't think they will be able to stop him with the same tricks they used in 2020, so they again, need to either get creative to come up with a new scheme that watchful eyes aren't looking for this time around on Election Day, or they need to have him in prison as a felon, thus disqualifying him as a Presidential candidate...
And I think...again my opinion...the clock is ticking, and they know it...
What was the downside of the Brits raising taxes on the 13 colonies? What was the downside of Santa Anna leading an army to wipe out a revolt? What was the downside of Japan knocking out America's key pacific naval base?
Never underestimate the power contained in a populous with a righteous cause.
Should be easy cases then.texagbeliever said:Brittmoore Car Club said:The truth is, this election was "rigged" but not in the way Always and Forever Trumpers were claiming. It was rigged though, by weaponized federal agencies colluding with big tech and media to influence the election through suppression of news and dissemination of misinformation/propaganda. I don't see how that could be debated, although every leftist would say "nuh uh!".J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
The Trump cult would have more credibility if they focused on that aspect...along with the super convenient lab leaked virus from China in 2020 that rolled out the red carpet for widescale mail-in voting. That was also a monumental game changer. So many people voted who otherwise would have never.
And yes, Trump is so detestable to so many, that it galvanized people to vote for anyone but him. So many ordinary non-leftist soccer moms are simply repulsed by him.
Yes 4 key swings state all stop counting at midnight and then finding Biden votes. That is clearly above board and thinking something fishy happened is just a conspiracy theory. Oh and 1 stop counting because of a pipe burst...in a different building. Super legit guys.
If that's true, then why continue to pursue fabricated "crimes" against him? Either he's a threat and you pursue him, or he isn't and you ignore him...J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
I posted above before seeing this, appreciate the reasoned discussion.texagbeliever said:
I read your pist too hastily. I think what you said all sounds reasonable. I think others are more of the potbanger variety. The key is to let the enemy make the mistake and then move. Much like in Chess, you don't win by being brilliant you win by taking advantage of opponents mistakes.
Note i dont think you are as much of a pot banger but you have your moments. And I do say this as someone who has certainly been consumed and fallen for that same approach and viewpoint. So I'm not holier or smarter here I just saw how that mindset was a drag on me and my ability to think clearly and act to get the future I wanted.
I certainly don't claim to be perfect and I also enjoy having some fun banter mixed in with the serious discussion. In the end I also know that this board is just for fun and it's really just a virtual water cooler.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
Brittmoore Car Club said:Should be easy cases then.texagbeliever said:Brittmoore Car Club said:The truth is, this election was "rigged" but not in the way Always and Forever Trumpers were claiming. It was rigged though, by weaponized federal agencies colluding with big tech and media to influence the election through suppression of news and dissemination of misinformation/propaganda. I don't see how that could be debated, although every leftist would say "nuh uh!".J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
The Trump cult would have more credibility if they focused on that aspect...along with the super convenient lab leaked virus from China in 2020 that rolled out the red carpet for widescale mail-in voting. That was also a monumental game changer. So many people voted who otherwise would have never.
And yes, Trump is so detestable to so many, that it galvanized people to vote for anyone but him. So many ordinary non-leftist soccer moms are simply repulsed by him.
Yes 4 key swings state all stop counting at midnight and then finding Biden votes. That is clearly above board and thinking something fishy happened is just a conspiracy theory. Oh and 1 stop counting because of a pipe burst...in a different building. Super legit guys.
Wrong.
Just like it isn't easy to prove global warming isn't happening. The only True argument that can be made is that we don't know that global warming IS happening. If you look at the call to action you can see how global warming is a globalist scam. But no one can PROVE global warming isn't happening which is why it is such a great cover for power grab.
You can't prove Fauci purposely gave bad medical advice on covid. You can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that many things are true. That doesn't mean they should be considered false. Just because you can't handle uncertainty and the implications there of doesn't mean we live in a world without uncertainty.
aggie93 said:I posted above before seeing this, appreciate the reasoned discussion.texagbeliever said:
I read your pist too hastily. I think what you said all sounds reasonable. I think others are more of the potbanger variety. The key is to let the enemy make the mistake and then move. Much like in Chess, you don't win by being brilliant you win by taking advantage of opponents mistakes.
Note i dont think you are as much of a pot banger but you have your moments. And I do say this as someone who has certainly been consumed and fallen for that same approach and viewpoint. So I'm not holier or smarter here I just saw how that mindset was a drag on me and my ability to think clearly and act to get the future I wanted.
I certainly don't claim to be perfect and I also enjoy having some fun banter mixed in with the serious discussion. In the end I also know that this board is just for fun and it's really just a virtual water cooler.
I think good ideas are shared here. I'd also caution to the insulation of bad actors being present. But you are a stand up guy. Now get back to work
That is both exciting and terrifying. I agree in some ways that could come about, but I don't know that we end up in a better place at the end of it. There are a LOT more examples of failure in that sort of thing than successes. We're talking about a lot of blood. I don't think the country is willing to go that route anymore, especially after J6.texagbeliever said:Phatbob said:Again, what is the downside from them doing so? Worst case we have a Constitutional Crisis and some sort of violence comes about... isn't that what they have been trying to get for years now? They have no downsides here.FireAg said:With all due respect...do you honestly think a D SoS could unilaterally use the power of their office, along with their personal understanding of the 14th Amendment, to remove a duly-nominated R nominee from their state ballot without any repercussions? There would literally be rioting in the streets if that happened... Many R's still believe (granted you aren't one of them, but it doesn't change the perceptions of many) 2020 was stolen... What would they say if D SoS's just removed the R nominee from the general ballot? I mean, the "fix" would obviously be in at that point, right?TRM said:If they get Trump as the nominee, they can remove him and Joe can stay in his basement essentially stacking the deck against him.FireAg said:TRM said:Remember some libs want to use the 14th amendment to remove Trump from the ballot. Dem SoS would do that in AZ, WI, MI, and PA and sink any GOP chance before the general election even gets started.FireAg said:
Is there a path the RNC can take to remove Trump from the primary ballots, at least in key states?
I'm not sure there is a loophole available where it can be done, but I do think that would be the best path for DeSantis to win the nomination…
Most voters, even proclaimed hardliners, are too lazy to take the time to write someone in…even Trump…
I think if the RNC wants DeSantis to be the guy, they need to get Trump out of the way by hook or by crook…
Would they? I thought D's wanted TRUMP, not DESANTIS, as the R challenger in 2024…
Isn't that why many polls are showing Trump with a huge lead…to help propel a losing name to the top of the ballot? Isn't that why D's continue to pursue indictments and prosecute absolutely bogus crimes…because that fires up the Trump base and keeps him at the top so he can be the R nominee and thus easily defeated in 2024?
So why would D SOS's want to help Republicans win the White House in 2024 by ensuring DeSantis is the nominee?
You can't have it both ways…either Ds want him as the nominee because it's an easy win for Ds, or Ds are scared to death of him and know they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat twice to defeat him…
So if you truly believe the Ds are playing 4D chess and want to force Trump to be the nominee in 2024, why on God's green earth would D SOS's want to REMOVE him from their respective state's primary ballots?
No…if you truly believe the D's want to run against Trump in 2024, then as R's who think Trump is a losing proposition, you have to accept that it is only R's with the power to do so (if that even exists as a possibility) are the only ones who can prevent it by removing him by hook or by crook from primary ballots…. The D's, based on many of your OWN ARGUMENTS, would have ZERO incentive to do so because it will be incredibly easy to beat Trump in 2024 and maintain 4 more years of liberal power in the Oval Office…
No, if Trump is the nominee after the primaries (and right now, I think that's exactly how it is going to play out if nothing changes), he WILL be the R candidate on the ballot in every single state, and the D's, if they can't beat him straight up, they will do it under cover of darkness (like I believe they did in 2020, and others believe they did legally)...
Here's the thing, though...several folks continue to claim that the D's are 1) artificially pumping up Trump to be the R in the 2024 general using slanted polling and/or are 2) continuing to chase him with false crime indictments so as to embolden his base to make sure he gets enough votes to be the R nominee in 2024 because "even a mindless ape like Biden can beat Trump"...
It doesn't make sense to get him on the general just to have some states remove him from their ballots in 2024 because that would be grounds for a constitutional crisis, and if you though people were outraged in 2020...just try something like that in 2024 and see what happens...
So, given everything I have noted above, what could be an alternative explanation? My opinion is that Trump's polling averages have D's (and the establishment at large) worried, and they are worried because again, in my opinion, they don't think they will be able to stop him with the same tricks they used in 2020, so they again, need to either get creative to come up with a new scheme that watchful eyes aren't looking for this time around on Election Day, or they need to have him in prison as a felon, thus disqualifying him as a Presidential candidate...
And I think...again my opinion...the clock is ticking, and they know it...
What was the downside of the Brits raising taxes on the 13 colonies? What was the downside of Santa Anna leading an army to wipe out a revolt? What was the downside of Japan knocking out America's key pacific naval base?
Never underestimate the power contained in a populous with a righteous cause.
Believe it or not, I agree with you here as well...the chasing of Trump with false crimes that yes, I fully expect him to be convicted of given the heavily unfavorable jurisdictions (no matter how outlandish and dumb the supposed crimes are). is not to fire up his base so he is the nominee... It is to keep him from being on the ticket in 2024 because they don't think they can pull off the same tricks twice...aggie93 said:Ah but you miss the real point. Trump is going to be convicted on this indictment, that's really not in question. This judge is the worst imaginable and she is going to have the trial in DC which is 90% Blue. That's essentially like saying you are unsure of the outcome of a case being tried on MSNBC with Joy Reed as the Judge. That's actually not even the worst part. The worst part is Judge will manipulate the timing of the proceedings to favor Democrats as much as possible. She will do everything she can to keep up the outrage at what she is doing and will give Trump some ridiculous sentence afterward.texagbeliever said:
Guy makes good points then his bias shows.
I believe I posted months ago how DeSantis is the Republican safety net if the Democrats take down Trump. The more success DeSantis has is actually protection for Trump. The more success Trump has is protection for DeSantis. Really just Trump being in it is protection for DeSantis.
The RNC gave themselves 2 avenues for victory. They are now just waiting for the Democrats to pick the winning strategy. That is why Fire and I are trying to help yall realize you are not helping the cause.
If Trump holds off and wins the indictment he will be vindicated and will be bolstered to huge success. If he loses and DeSantis rises then it will be a huge rally to DeSantis and he will win. That is the future. Conservatives are in a good spot.
Let's also not forget about the other 3 legal cases in flux (FL, GA, and NY).
The point of the Democrats is not to worry about the facts at all, it is to distract and win. I completely understand this is a lot to absorb and is deeply unfair but this has been the Democrat plan all along and we can either be proactive or reactive to it. Any way you slice it they have Trump checkmated here and they have backup plans. Now you can get angry that DeSantis can benefit from that but DeSantis didn't do this and his supporters pointing out facts instead of either sitting back quietly or worse buying into the madness that Trump isn't screwed isn't productive.
And if I accept that, then I must also accept that the polling showing Trump pulling away from DeSantis is actually valid, and not some liberal scheme to put an easy candidate at the top of the R ballot in 2024 who can be easily beat without having to scheme and cheat again because he is so "looney" that he can be beat on the up-and-up...
I think there is a very real fear by the establishment (and that includes both sides of the aisle) that if Trump is the R nominee, they won't be able to stop him this time, so the ONLY way to prevent Trump from taking control again is to ensure he is disqualified from being on the 2024 general ballot...
In my opinion, and as misguided as some here might think it is (because the argument from some is DeSantis is more "anti-establishment" than Trump), I believe that the establishment fears Trump more than anyone else who could run...
And as I mentioned previously...the clock is ticking...and they know it...
Phatbob said:That is both exciting and terrifying. I agree in some ways that could come about, but I don't know that we end up in a better place at the end of it. There are a LOT more examples of failure in that sort of thing than successes. We're talking about a lot of blood. I don't think the country is willing to go that route anymore, especially after J6.texagbeliever said:Phatbob said:Again, what is the downside from them doing so? Worst case we have a Constitutional Crisis and some sort of violence comes about... isn't that what they have been trying to get for years now? They have no downsides here.FireAg said:With all due respect...do you honestly think a D SoS could unilaterally use the power of their office, along with their personal understanding of the 14th Amendment, to remove a duly-nominated R nominee from their state ballot without any repercussions? There would literally be rioting in the streets if that happened... Many R's still believe (granted you aren't one of them, but it doesn't change the perceptions of many) 2020 was stolen... What would they say if D SoS's just removed the R nominee from the general ballot? I mean, the "fix" would obviously be in at that point, right?TRM said:If they get Trump as the nominee, they can remove him and Joe can stay in his basement essentially stacking the deck against him.FireAg said:TRM said:Remember some libs want to use the 14th amendment to remove Trump from the ballot. Dem SoS would do that in AZ, WI, MI, and PA and sink any GOP chance before the general election even gets started.FireAg said:
Is there a path the RNC can take to remove Trump from the primary ballots, at least in key states?
I'm not sure there is a loophole available where it can be done, but I do think that would be the best path for DeSantis to win the nomination…
Most voters, even proclaimed hardliners, are too lazy to take the time to write someone in…even Trump…
I think if the RNC wants DeSantis to be the guy, they need to get Trump out of the way by hook or by crook…
Would they? I thought D's wanted TRUMP, not DESANTIS, as the R challenger in 2024…
Isn't that why many polls are showing Trump with a huge lead…to help propel a losing name to the top of the ballot? Isn't that why D's continue to pursue indictments and prosecute absolutely bogus crimes…because that fires up the Trump base and keeps him at the top so he can be the R nominee and thus easily defeated in 2024?
So why would D SOS's want to help Republicans win the White House in 2024 by ensuring DeSantis is the nominee?
You can't have it both ways…either Ds want him as the nominee because it's an easy win for Ds, or Ds are scared to death of him and know they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat twice to defeat him…
So if you truly believe the Ds are playing 4D chess and want to force Trump to be the nominee in 2024, why on God's green earth would D SOS's want to REMOVE him from their respective state's primary ballots?
No…if you truly believe the D's want to run against Trump in 2024, then as R's who think Trump is a losing proposition, you have to accept that it is only R's with the power to do so (if that even exists as a possibility) are the only ones who can prevent it by removing him by hook or by crook from primary ballots…. The D's, based on many of your OWN ARGUMENTS, would have ZERO incentive to do so because it will be incredibly easy to beat Trump in 2024 and maintain 4 more years of liberal power in the Oval Office…
No, if Trump is the nominee after the primaries (and right now, I think that's exactly how it is going to play out if nothing changes), he WILL be the R candidate on the ballot in every single state, and the D's, if they can't beat him straight up, they will do it under cover of darkness (like I believe they did in 2020, and others believe they did legally)...
Here's the thing, though...several folks continue to claim that the D's are 1) artificially pumping up Trump to be the R in the 2024 general using slanted polling and/or are 2) continuing to chase him with false crime indictments so as to embolden his base to make sure he gets enough votes to be the R nominee in 2024 because "even a mindless ape like Biden can beat Trump"...
It doesn't make sense to get him on the general just to have some states remove him from their ballots in 2024 because that would be grounds for a constitutional crisis, and if you though people were outraged in 2020...just try something like that in 2024 and see what happens...
So, given everything I have noted above, what could be an alternative explanation? My opinion is that Trump's polling averages have D's (and the establishment at large) worried, and they are worried because again, in my opinion, they don't think they will be able to stop him with the same tricks they used in 2020, so they again, need to either get creative to come up with a new scheme that watchful eyes aren't looking for this time around on Election Day, or they need to have him in prison as a felon, thus disqualifying him as a Presidential candidate...
And I think...again my opinion...the clock is ticking, and they know it...
What was the downside of the Brits raising taxes on the 13 colonies? What was the downside of Santa Anna leading an army to wipe out a revolt? What was the downside of Japan knocking out America's key pacific naval base?
Never underestimate the power contained in a populous with a righteous cause.
Doing the right thing is always the right thing. The outcome is up to God. I am thankful for a faith that knows the state of earth is not my true concern, glorifying God is. I am his warrior and he is my armor.
FireAg said:If that's true, then why continue to pursue fabricated "crimes" against him? Either he's a threat and you pursue him, or he isn't and you ignore him...J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
My opinion - 2 items that can both be true to varying degrees:
1. Every time they charge him his polling and fundraising numbers go up, increasing the likelihood he wins the primary.
2. They think they can convict him because they are convinced he broke the law.
You and I both agree...there is a powder keg here that so many are dismissing... And this circles back to my original warnings on this subject...in my opinion, it is extremely unwise to treat the Trump voting block as if it was some extreme, marginalized band of rebels who can't cause more than a minor stink when the dust settles...texagbeliever said:Phatbob said:Again, what is the downside from them doing so? Worst case we have a Constitutional Crisis and some sort of violence comes about... isn't that what they have been trying to get for years now? They have no downsides here.FireAg said:With all due respect...do you honestly think a D SoS could unilaterally use the power of their office, along with their personal understanding of the 14th Amendment, to remove a duly-nominated R nominee from their state ballot without any repercussions? There would literally be rioting in the streets if that happened... Many R's still believe (granted you aren't one of them, but it doesn't change the perceptions of many) 2020 was stolen... What would they say if D SoS's just removed the R nominee from the general ballot? I mean, the "fix" would obviously be in at that point, right?TRM said:If they get Trump as the nominee, they can remove him and Joe can stay in his basement essentially stacking the deck against him.FireAg said:TRM said:Remember some libs want to use the 14th amendment to remove Trump from the ballot. Dem SoS would do that in AZ, WI, MI, and PA and sink any GOP chance before the general election even gets started.FireAg said:
Is there a path the RNC can take to remove Trump from the primary ballots, at least in key states?
I'm not sure there is a loophole available where it can be done, but I do think that would be the best path for DeSantis to win the nomination…
Most voters, even proclaimed hardliners, are too lazy to take the time to write someone in…even Trump…
I think if the RNC wants DeSantis to be the guy, they need to get Trump out of the way by hook or by crook…
Would they? I thought D's wanted TRUMP, not DESANTIS, as the R challenger in 2024…
Isn't that why many polls are showing Trump with a huge lead…to help propel a losing name to the top of the ballot? Isn't that why D's continue to pursue indictments and prosecute absolutely bogus crimes…because that fires up the Trump base and keeps him at the top so he can be the R nominee and thus easily defeated in 2024?
So why would D SOS's want to help Republicans win the White House in 2024 by ensuring DeSantis is the nominee?
You can't have it both ways…either Ds want him as the nominee because it's an easy win for Ds, or Ds are scared to death of him and know they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat twice to defeat him…
So if you truly believe the Ds are playing 4D chess and want to force Trump to be the nominee in 2024, why on God's green earth would D SOS's want to REMOVE him from their respective state's primary ballots?
No…if you truly believe the D's want to run against Trump in 2024, then as R's who think Trump is a losing proposition, you have to accept that it is only R's with the power to do so (if that even exists as a possibility) are the only ones who can prevent it by removing him by hook or by crook from primary ballots…. The D's, based on many of your OWN ARGUMENTS, would have ZERO incentive to do so because it will be incredibly easy to beat Trump in 2024 and maintain 4 more years of liberal power in the Oval Office…
No, if Trump is the nominee after the primaries (and right now, I think that's exactly how it is going to play out if nothing changes), he WILL be the R candidate on the ballot in every single state, and the D's, if they can't beat him straight up, they will do it under cover of darkness (like I believe they did in 2020, and others believe they did legally)...
Here's the thing, though...several folks continue to claim that the D's are 1) artificially pumping up Trump to be the R in the 2024 general using slanted polling and/or are 2) continuing to chase him with false crime indictments so as to embolden his base to make sure he gets enough votes to be the R nominee in 2024 because "even a mindless ape like Biden can beat Trump"...
It doesn't make sense to get him on the general just to have some states remove him from their ballots in 2024 because that would be grounds for a constitutional crisis, and if you though people were outraged in 2020...just try something like that in 2024 and see what happens...
So, given everything I have noted above, what could be an alternative explanation? My opinion is that Trump's polling averages have D's (and the establishment at large) worried, and they are worried because again, in my opinion, they don't think they will be able to stop him with the same tricks they used in 2020, so they again, need to either get creative to come up with a new scheme that watchful eyes aren't looking for this time around on Election Day, or they need to have him in prison as a felon, thus disqualifying him as a Presidential candidate...
And I think...again my opinion...the clock is ticking, and they know it...
What was the downside of the Brits raising taxes on the 13 colonies? What was the downside of Santa Anna leading an army to wipe out a revolt? What was the downside of Japan knocking out America's key pacific naval base?
Never underestimate the power contained in a populous with a righteous cause.
There are literally 10s of millions of folks who do not believe the 2020 election was fair...it's not just a handful...it is 10s of millions... And that is backed up by the fact that Trump continues to pull away in current polling vs DeSantis... I personally like DeSantis more, but I do believe Trump was cheated in 2020, and I do believe in the idea that "perception is reality"...
If Trump win the R nomination, the establishment will have to come up with an even grander scheme to keep him away from a 2nd term... Now, do I think the establishment knows this? Yup...they see the polls...they ain't dumb...so I am confident they are concocting a new approach...but they know it will be infinitely harder to do this time around, and as such, they are going to try to make the man a felon and disqualify him, as that is they have determined is the easier path...
I think you underestimate just how evil and calculated the Democrats are. They tested the theory of supporting Trump candidates in primaries in '22 and then blasting them in the General and it worked like a charm with the GOP losing a number of very winnable races. They also know they can play fast and loose with election laws and how it is extremely difficult to prove voter fraud and even if you do they can tie you in knots. They know the key is running out the clock and that's pretty easy to do. For instance I have no doubt there was some really bad stuff that happened in AZ in '22 but the Dems ran a great PR campaign and ran out the clock. Then Lake acted like a crazy person and it made their case stronger.FireAg said:If that's true, then why continue to pursue fabricated "crimes" against him? Either he's a threat and you pursue him, or he isn't and you ignore him...J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
This is not a fair fight and when you assume it is or that people won't stand for X or Y because that would be outrageous it just shows you haven't learned from Covid lockdowns or the 2020 election or a number of other things. People are comfortable and it takes a LOT to get them to pick up torches and pitchforks, especially when they can see how many are rotting in jail in DC for doing less than that. Republicans need to be very, very smart and very, very disciplined to win or even have a chance of winning.
Also if you don't think that Democrats and the media aren't looking at how Trump's rise in polling is directly tied to his indictments you need your head examined. It isn't because Trump is more popular than ever or his policies are connecting with people. It's because people see him as being treated unfairly and you have both the Trump camp and the MSM pushing that narrative as hard as they can.
I've also never seen so many polls that are fundamentally flawed like they are now. People act like polls are all equal and taken in a fair and equitable way. They aren't. Polls aren't regulated. There isn't some standard that they have to hold to. It isn't a crime to make or publish polls with bad data or biased data. You also have people mixing good polls with crap polls and treating them alike. That's forgetting the fact the polls mean so little right now at this point in the campaign for reasons we have discussed ad nauseam.
In the end this is about winning in November of '24 on both sides.
The Democrats have a far more coordinated plan than Republicans and that is their big advantage. They have Biden but can pull him and replace him and no one will really raise a fuss either way. They have a massive vote gathering operation in place and legal teams already working to make favorable election laws for them. They have the media fully in their court pushing whatever narrative they want. Then they are doing all they can to divide and conquer Republicans and are doing their best to either get the opponent they want or to severely damage whomever they are up against. In short all of their focus is on the end goal.
Republicans OTOH couldn't be more divided and it is more than just DeSantis vs Trump. You have about 10% that really don't like either because they don't like MAGA policies, they want the old school Neocon/Compassionate Conservative crap. In the end I think this war has to happen to figure out who wins but make no mistake it is going to be ugly as hell and it could also cost us the bigger war if we aren't careful. I just don't see how it gets avoided with the different sides so dug in.
er
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
aggie93 said:
This is extremely well stated, it's time to face reality:A preview of today's show:
— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) August 2, 2023
I am one of the few people who has covered the January 6th story/set-up, or even cared about the people caught up in that whatsoever. Including an interview I did with one of them from federal prison earlier this year. So I have been well aware of the…
Just getting around to reading that tweet. ******* that was perfect. Spot on. I can only hope the majority of primary voters come around to their senses in time and realize what's he's saying is the truth of what's unraveling before us right now.
aggie93 said:
Personally I am treating this as a shock moment and a mourning period to follow but Trump's chances of winning the General were officially killed yesterday with the announcement of that Judge.
Donald's chances of winning 2024 were killed long before yesterday and mostly due to his own failings and ineptitude. Much of the Aggie Cult45 should inner reflect on continued devotion to this false god and the Aggie Honor Code.
And I look at his polling numbers to date, and if I assume they are real, I have to accept that there is a large part of the population that absolutely is willing to shed blood, on a large scale, over this issue...they believe their country is being stolen from them...Phatbob said:That is both exciting and terrifying. I agree in some ways that could come about, but I don't know that we end up in a better place at the end of it. There are a LOT more examples of failure in that sort of thing than successes. We're talking about a lot of blood. I don't think the country is willing to go that route anymore, especially after J6.texagbeliever said:Phatbob said:
Again, what is the downside from them doing so? Worst case we have a Constitutional Crisis and some sort of violence comes about... isn't that what they have been trying to get for years now? They have no downsides here.
What was the downside of the Brits raising taxes on the 13 colonies? What was the downside of Santa Anna leading an army to wipe out a revolt? What was the downside of Japan knocking out America's key pacific naval base?
Never underestimate the power contained in a populous with a righteous cause.
and you think Desantis chances are any better at beating biden nothing indicates he even has a remote chance of beating Biden head-to-head.J. Walter Weatherman said:texagbeliever said:
Since your edit really changed your post. The second part you added is meh.
It is out of our hands. I think Trumps unfitness will likely lead dems to want to take him out. But you can't argue that Trump as president will be at worst a hold of serve for our republic and setup DeSantis for success in 2028.
Trump will never be president. Even if he wins the primary he has a 0.0 percent chance of winning the election. Not sure how many more ways we can put that but that's the number one reason most on here are so adamant about him not being the nominee.
And I'll avoid posting about the "stolen election" anymore so we can stop derailing the thread, but if Trump's own handpicked people are admitting under oath that it's bs and every case has been thrown out of court, and that doesn't count as evidence to you that this is all a grift (what happened to the $250MM in Stop the Steal money?) then there's apparently nothing that will ever convince you.
In fact avg polling has biden plus 6 vs a head-to-head match up
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