FireAg said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

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No, I totally see that...and that's absolutely in line with the overall point I have been trying to make...

"You're dumb and a cult if you vote fore Trump because he can't win in 2024" isn't having a positive impact on DeSantis's national polling averages...as Trump's lead in recent weeks has...expanded...

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Blaming DeSantis polling behind Trump because of some posters on Texags being as big of an ahole as trump is a new one. I think that's a ridiculous premise.

FireAg said:

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Let me see if I can explain it another way...

Some of you seem to assume the 2024 Presidential Election can be won by the "person" and by their "policies"...

I don't...

I believe that America truly is that corrupt now...

The 2016 election changed the game...as unpopular as Hillary was supposed to be, she still won the popular vote...the Left (and frankly, the establishment at large) simply failed to pad their vote counts in the critical precincts...so they spent 4 years trying to implode Trump's presidency using false narratives and crimes...even impeached the dude on "quid pro quo" which is EXACTLY what the Biden family has been employing for years, even now...

The Right needs to rally around one name...I don't care if it's Donald Duck...and spend the next year figuring out how to defeat the liberal voting machine... We can't do that with this constant infighting and mud-slinging...it's distracting from the ultimate goal...

The fact of the matter is, at this point, unless Trump goes to jail (and even then, it may not matter), DeSantis isn't going to have the right votes in the right places to secure the nomination in the Primary... And why not? DeSantis (and some of his supporters will even concede this) has yet to demonstrate a certain "charisma" that will help swing votes his way "naturally"...

Let's take the 2024 General out of the equation, and let's just focus on RD winning the R nomination... He's simply not gaining enough ground (and in general, he's losing ground on average):



Iowa:


New Hampshire:


South Carolina:


Florida:


Texas:


DeSantis has a real problem...he trails big time in places that will make or break the R-nomination... So the focus here (and I will reiterate...DeSantis is doing a good job of this, while his supporters are not...which is an odd dynamic in itself) should be figuring out how to change the Trump inertia...and I'm sorry, but I categorically disagree with any notion that says that the way to do so is to denigrate those who he appeals to...

Frankly, I think DeSantis followers need to stop spending energy on zingers and insults and start spending it on how to put enough pro-DeSantis ballots in key areas to change reverse the Trump inertia... And from those efforts, perhaps we can learn how to use those same tactics in the General to ensure that we don't get four more years of the complete absurdity that we have today...

The sooner folks on the Right accept that our Presidential election process is no longer on the up and up, the sooner we can put a stop to the Left...

Problem is...the Left already has a huge head start, and us peons on the Right are quibbling over zingers and degrading labels for folks on our own team...

---

You talk about getting votes to polls and then cite terrible polls on a national scale 6 months out from the Primaries. You also ignore the DeSantis ground game which I have brought up to you multiple times he has now knocked on over a million doors and is hitting tense of thousands every single day. Trump's response? To make fun of DeSantis for paying people and training them to knock on doors. Oh, and to say they should all drop out and give him the money to run a ballot harvesting campaign of his own even though he has no plan. Yet Trump is the guy.

Ok.

aggie93 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

A lot of irony in your post. I could make the same argument about Trump folks. Many seem resigned to the fact that Trump can't win the General but that's ok because if Trump can't win than NO ONE can win and so it justifies anything to take down DeSantis. I can't imagine how those people would feel if DeSantis got the nomination and won, it would destroy their entire persona and worldview.

I just want to win and change the direction of the country. I don't see Trump being successful at that for a litany of reasons but will still vote for him. I think DeSantis has a real chance though of making real change.

---

Yes, you could absolutely say the same thing about Trump folks...I have never said otherwise...

Here's the thing, though...Trump is currently way ahead in the R primary polling... So again, that's the inertia that pro-DeSantis R's are fighting...

And my contention is that you aren't going to change that inertia with "zingers"...

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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FireAg said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

No, I totally see that...and that's absolutely in line with the overall point I have been trying to make...

"You're dumb and a cult if you vote fore Trump because he can't win in 2024" isn't having a positive impact on DeSantis's national polling averages...as Trump's lead in recent weeks has...expanded...

---

Blaming DeSantis polling behind Trump because of some posters on Texags being as big of an ahole as trump is a new one. I think that's a ridiculous premise.

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Yeah, but Trump voters are angels who never insult anyone. That's why Trump is doing so well.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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FireAg said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

No, I totally see that...and that's absolutely in line with the overall point I have been trying to make...

"You're dumb and a cult if you vote fore Trump because he can't win in 2024" isn't having a positive impact on DeSantis's national polling averages...as Trump's lead in recent weeks has...expanded...

---

Blaming DeSantis polling behind Trump because of some posters on Texags being as big of an ahole as trump is a new one. I think that's a ridiculous premise.

---

Not blaming...merely pointing out that it isn't making a positive difference... A lot of DeSantis's (and DeSantis's followers) missteps aren't making a positive difference...

I'm merely pointing out but one of the many...

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

A lot of irony in your post. I could make the same argument about Trump folks. Many seem resigned to the fact that Trump can't win the General but that's ok because if Trump can't win than NO ONE can win and so it justifies anything to take down DeSantis. I can't imagine how those people would feel if DeSantis got the nomination and won, it would destroy their entire persona and worldview.

I just want to win and change the direction of the country. I don't see Trump being successful at that for a litany of reasons but will still vote for him. I think DeSantis has a real chance though of making real change.

---

Yes, you could absolutely say the same thing about Trump folks...I have never said otherwise...

Here's the thing, though...Trump is currently way ahead in the R primary polling... So again, that's the inertia that pro-DeSantis R's are fighting...

And my contention is that you aren't going to change that inertia with "zingers"...

---

All the Trump campaign does is zingers and most of the DeSantis campaign is about policy. It's like you just want to hold on to a few comments about "Cult" or whatever and then act like that is why DeSantis is not doing as well in polls that mean nothing.

In the meantime DeSantis is out working the ground. He has both the Governors from Iowa and NH clearly behind him even if they won't officially endorse anyone. Everything changes after each of the first few primaries and you should know that, it's not a national election.

And on a national scale, DeSantis has lost ground, on average, over the last 4 weeks...

That's what the data currently says...

aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

A lot of irony in your post. I could make the same argument about Trump folks. Many seem resigned to the fact that Trump can't win the General but that's ok because if Trump can't win than NO ONE can win and so it justifies anything to take down DeSantis. I can't imagine how those people would feel if DeSantis got the nomination and won, it would destroy their entire persona and worldview.

I just want to win and change the direction of the country. I don't see Trump being successful at that for a litany of reasons but will still vote for him. I think DeSantis has a real chance though of making real change.

---

Yes, you could absolutely say the same thing about Trump folks...I have never said otherwise...

Here's the thing, though...Trump is currently way ahead in the R primary polling... So again, that's the inertia that pro-DeSantis R's are fighting...

And my contention is that you aren't going to change that inertia with "zingers"...

---

All the Trump campaign does is zingers and most of the DeSantis campaign is about policy. It's like you just want to hold on to a few comments about "Cult" or whatever and then act like that is why DeSantis is not doing as well in polls that mean nothing.

In the meantime DeSantis is out working the ground. He has both the Governors from Iowa and NH clearly behind him even if they won't officially endorse anyone. Everything changes after each of the first few primaries and you should know that, it's not a national election.

---

I'm truly sorry that some of you don't like to have the obvious pointed out to you...but it doesn't make things any less true...

Yes, Trump campaigns a lot with zingers...and he is increasing his lead because of it...the challenge facing DeSantis and his hardliners is finding a way around that inertia...

For better or worse, they haven't...at least not yet...

aggie93 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

A lot of irony in your post. I could make the same argument about Trump folks. Many seem resigned to the fact that Trump can't win the General but that's ok because if Trump can't win than NO ONE can win and so it justifies anything to take down DeSantis. I can't imagine how those people would feel if DeSantis got the nomination and won, it would destroy their entire persona and worldview.

I just want to win and change the direction of the country. I don't see Trump being successful at that for a litany of reasons but will still vote for him. I think DeSantis has a real chance though of making real change.

---

Wait what Trump posters think Trump can't win the general? That is stupid. Ignore any poster who supports Trump and doesn't think he can win. Same for DeSantis.

Well work on your imagination. They aren't your enemy so being able to imagine how they would feel (empathy) would help you be more persuasive on bringing them to the good side permanently. Which is something I believe you want to be able to do.

Worst case then for you is Trump holds serve and sets up DeSantis for '28. That is a good situation and one that hope can be kept in!

Also for the record I do believe that you aggie93 want the best outcome. It is evident in your attempts to address in coherent long form posts.

It only affects polling when anonymous internet guys do it is again, a ridiculous premise.

Trump has given up gains in 3 national elections in a row now, and his juvenile insults are a large reason why. Anonymous internet posters are absolutely not affecting poll numbers more than trumps own behavior. The main difference in polling results is name recognition, biased polls from every side in the first place, and the democrats manipulating the trump base with lawfare.

Charpie said:

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You really should stop arguing with him. He's not going to change his mind. None of the trump supporters are. Y'all have been having this exact same conversation. Nothing is going to change. Both sides are dug in. Let it go.

---

While there is some repetitivity in our conversations I have learned quite a bit about the DeSantis perspective and believe I provide a different grounded view of the Trump one that shows the complexity in the topic. So I hope he ignores you.

Except I intend to vote for DeSantis...I just don't think it will matter, though...

The gap has grown over the last 30 days...

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

A lot of irony in your post. I could make the same argument about Trump folks. Many seem resigned to the fact that Trump can't win the General but that's ok because if Trump can't win than NO ONE can win and so it justifies anything to take down DeSantis. I can't imagine how those people would feel if DeSantis got the nomination and won, it would destroy their entire persona and worldview.

I just want to win and change the direction of the country. I don't see Trump being successful at that for a litany of reasons but will still vote for him. I think DeSantis has a real chance though of making real change.

---

Yes, you could absolutely say the same thing about Trump folks...I have never said otherwise...

Here's the thing, though...Trump is currently way ahead in the R primary polling... So again, that's the inertia that pro-DeSantis R's are fighting...

And my contention is that you aren't going to change that inertia with "zingers"...

---

Most of us understand that polling 6 months out from the first primary and before any debates is basically worthless, especially if it's national. Our main frustration is that Trump winning the primary basically guarantees the left winning in 2024, taking the house and possibly the senate. No one turns out the other party like Trump, and he does it on purpose because being an obnoxious ass fuels his ego. He's changed nothing since 2020 and in fact is doubling down on the stupid things that cost him that race anyways.

However I will echo others in that there is a difference in people who are just voting for Trump because they think he's the best choice, and those who echo his blatant lies, stupid nicknames etc. Only the second group would be considered cultists to me. And clearly logic has failed them so could speaking to them the way their hero talks make a difference? Probably not, but thankfully that group is capped at a small percentage of the party anyways.

You have learned about DeSantis? Then you have read his comments about DeSanits. That's good. I wish he would comment about DeSantis and stop arguing about trump because it's boring. Staff has already locked this thread once and given all of us a warning about the arguing. It's going to happen again. So if you want him to ignore me, fine. But it will be at the threads peril

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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It only affects polling when anonymous internet guys do it is again, a ridiculous premise.

Trump has given up gains in 3 national elections in a row now, and his juvenile insults are a large reason why. Anonymous internet posters are absolutely not affecting poll numbers more than trumps own behavior. The main difference in polling results is name recognition, biased polls from every side in the first place, and the democrats manipulating the trump base with lawfare.

---

The Republicans took back the house in 2022. So he got a gain in there. Sure senate was a mess. But at least call 2022 a tie.

Charpie said:

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You have learned about DeSantis? Then you have read his comments about DeSanits. That's good. I wish he would comment about DeSantis and stop arguing about trump because it's boring. Staff has already locked this thread once and given all of us a warning about the arguing. It's going to happen again. So if you want him to ignore me, fine. But it will be at the threads peril

---

This thread is literally title DeSantis vs Trump. Are we just supposed to ignore discussion between the two sides? Laughable.

I can agree that any single poll, or handful of polls for any particular date, 6-months out, is highly unreliable...

But I am personally looking at trends...I only see gaps widening, on average, not narrowing...

FireAg said:

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The Banned said:

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There are two types of trump supporters.

1. "I'm leaning trump because I think he deserves a second shot/did a good job the first time". These people are generally treated with decorum and rational rebuttals

2. "Trump needs to drain the swamp, desantus isvthe swamp, desantis is disloyal, desantis should have waited his turn" are generally met with the insults and name calling because there is no way to break through their trump love. No amount of facts will sway them.

If group 1 gets offended by the insults leveled at group 2, maybe they're more group 2 than they realize and need to reevaluate.

There is no winning those types of trump supporters. All but one of the interviews trump has done since the start of the campaign have been horrible. He has absolutely no new ideas and he's going to lose. It's very easy to see. Yet he's still gaining in the polls. He has a very odd loyalty surrounding him. You keep talking about desantis stealing the spotlight, but I posit it's impossible. If trump has looked as bad as he has up to this point and is still gaining support, there is nothing desantis can do from a public perspective. He needs to keep his ground game going and hope some early wins change the tides.

In the mean time trump will continue yo sue division by insulting someone many of us support, showing he's learned nothing. You can't galvanize around the general election when one of the main candidates is kissing everyone off left and right

---

Please point to where Group 1 has received such treatment...many folks on here are convinced that Group 1 doesn't even exist...folks will jump all over someone who says one positive thing about Trump on this forum as being a member of "Cult45" without hesitation...

I intend to vote DeSantis in the Texas Primary, but I do believe that Trump was cheated in 2020, and I do believe that Trump did do positive things for this country in his first term...but if one says even one thing positive about Trump, some of you jump all over them and dismiss them as "brainwashed"...there's absolutely no middle ground with some of you...

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I'm not going back through every thread to go find the snippets. I've personally witnessed them. I think it's more a matter of how someone believes they are perceived (stupid, brainwashed, etc) versus how they are actually received. I've seen several posters be highly offended at very reasonable pushback in trump. I won't name them so as not to offend again, but at least 2 long term posters come to mind. Someone pushes back and they respond with "I guess I'm not allowed to say anything positive about trump or I'm an idiot to yall" when no one said anything rude whatsoever. I've witnessed many in group 1 show incredibly thin skin

Charpie said:

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You have learned about DeSantis? Then you have read his comments about DeSanits. That's good. I wish he would comment about DeSantis and stop arguing about trump because it's boring. Staff has already locked this thread once and given all of us a warning about the arguing. It's going to happen again. So if you want him to ignore me, fine. But it will be at the threads peril

---

Agreed. Every one of his posts is the same: Desantis isn't doing enough. Rinse/Repeat

Yes posters and I'm probably guilty of this myself, conflate general disagreement with disagreement plus that poster thinking you are an idiot or stupid or a bumpkin. It would be to the benefit of everyone to try to be cognizant of what is specifically posted and not the general idea behind posters of one side.

texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

The stakes are far too high for anyone to be looking for an "I told you so". We are highly convinced based on empirical evidence that trump doesn't have a shot it hell. Us saying "I told you so" means our country is effed even more than it already is. We want trump supporters to wake up to that fact far more than we want to gloat about trump losing

The Banned said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

The stakes are far too high for anyone to be looking for an "I told you so". We are highly convinced based on empirical evidence that trump doesn't have a shot it hell. Us saying "I told you so" means our country is effed even more than it already is. We want trump supporters to wake up to that fact far more than we want to gloat about trump losing

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That is your perspective. That is not differentiating in most team DeSantis posts. Seriously when you read posts start to get a handle on a posters motif. It will pop out. Just like insecurity and other things do.

BigBrother said:

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Charpie said:

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You have learned about DeSantis? Then you have read his comments about DeSanits. That's good. I wish he would comment about DeSantis and stop arguing about trump because it's boring. Staff has already locked this thread once and given all of us a warning about the arguing. It's going to happen again. So if you want him to ignore me, fine. But it will be at the threads peril

---

Agreed. Every one of his posts is the same: Desantis isn't doing enough. Rinse/Repeat

---

He isn't...

What I think is worthy of discussion is "why isn't he?" and "what needs to change?"...

FireAg said:

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I can agree that any single poll, or handful of polls for any particular date, 6-months out, is highly unreliable...

But I am personally looking at trends...I only see gaps widening, on average, not narrowing...

---

If you are looking at trends, you should notice that in those polls you are pointing to, those that were polling for DeSantis are NOT generally going to Trump. They still want someone else. Once the field starts to narrow, I think we will see something we saw in 2016... support will move to the main "non-Trump" candidate and make it a race. Hopefully it will happen soon enough to work.

texagbeliever said:

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The Banned said:

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texagbeliever said:

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One thing you may be missing is that many DeSantis supporters want to say "I told you so" more than work towards a good outcome. It goes with their likely intellectual successes and prowess.

What tipped me off to this fact was how they are so quick to tell you the thousand ways Trump won't win in 2024. That way if Trump doesn't win they can say look I tried to tell everybody. What will be telling is which ones ultimately switch to trying to get a republican in office in 2024 versus doomsday post hope is lost if their boy loses in the primary.

---

The stakes are far too high for anyone to be looking for an "I told you so". We are highly convinced based on empirical evidence that trump doesn't have a shot it hell. Us saying "I told you so" means our country is effed even more than it already is. We want trump supporters to wake up to that fact far more than we want to gloat about trump losing

---

That is your perspective. That is not differentiating in most team DeSantis posts. Seriously when you read posts start to get a handle on a posters motif. It will pop out. Just like insecurity and other things do.

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Spot on...

Okay...but my point is that there simply aren't very many that are going for DeSantis to begin with...

And that's why the national average gap is growing...at least for now...

FireAg said:

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Okay...but my point is that there simply aren't very many that are going for DeSantis to begin with...

And that's why the national average gap is growing...at least for now...

---

I think people should look back at the 2016 primary. The republican party was likely to nominate Jeb Bush. There are a lot of low informed front dog voting people in the republican primary. That is why Trump took him out then automatically absorbed much of that front dog support. That allowed him to hold off Cruz and the more engaged, intelligent part of the republican base.

What Fire and I are supposing is that Trump has that lead largely locked in and it would be wiser to play a longer term game. Frame it as DeSantis is great and avoid the snide Trump comment. Be active on how Republicans can make the republican in general more successful. Meantime Trumpkins that stupidly bash DeSantis should be mocked. I will gladly do that.

FireAg said:

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Okay...but my point is that there simply aren't very many that are going for DeSantis to begin with...

And that's why the national average gap is growing...at least for now...

---

I think there is a difference between the support base. DeSantis is a challenger. When you support a challenger, you are already admitting that the current frontrunner is not what you want and you are willing to back certain positions and ideas in rough form. Those get worked out throughout the primary season and that vote is fluid. There is going to be an ordered list of candidates that fit more or less what you support the most.

For Trump, there is a lot of the base that has a top 5 list that Trump has all 5 slots, and there is no examination of any issues beyond "Is their last name Trump". If it is literally not possible to break into that list, because the first criteria to be on the list is to be Trump, at some point, you have to point to the people with that list and call it what it is. This obsession with Trump and only Trump is what is killing the Republican party.

Perfect example of the duplicity of the Cult45

Sorry, but these standards make no sense. DeSantis is responsible for a guy who supports him online, has no direct affiliation, and privately used that slur 2 years ago, but complete silence over Trump publicly praising a guy who used that same word on here the same day? pic.twitter.com/hKti71efsO

— AG (@AGHamilton29) July 31, 2023

And no, most Trump supporters are not cultish. It's the loud ones online that do not hold him to any standard, yet expect others to abide by them.

How else would you describe such behavior? It's exactly what we hate democrats for!

texagbeliever said:

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FireAg said:

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Okay...but my point is that there simply aren't very many that are going for DeSantis to begin with...

And that's why the national average gap is growing...at least for now...

---

I think people should look back at the 2016 primary. The republican party was likely to nominate Jeb Bush. There are a lot of low informed front dog voting people in the republican primary. That is why Trump took him out then automatically absorbed much of that front dog support. That allowed him to hold off Cruz and the more engaged, intelligent part of the republican base.

What Fire and I are supposing is that Trump has that lead largely locked in and it would be wiser to play a longer term game. Frame it as DeSantis is great and avoid the snide Trump comment. Be active on how Republicans can make the republican in general more successful. Meantime Trumpkins that stupidly bash DeSantis should be mocked. I will gladly do that.

---

Pretty much sums up my perspective...

I love a lot of what DeSantis stands for...I think he is probably the "best" candidate to symbolize what I believe as an American citizen and taxpayer...

What deeply concerns me is his, to date, inability to break through the Trump noise vacuum...he isn't resonating with folks and, for better or worse, if he doesn't find a way to reverse that, he won't be the R nominee...

At one point, I felt like "well, if Trump goes to jail, then DeSantis will be thrust into the vacuum created, and there, he's the nominee by default", but I'm not sure that is even possible given that Trump only gets more popular, and his base becomes even more dug-in, with each new (ridiculous) indictment...

Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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Okay...but my point is that there simply aren't very many that are going for DeSantis to begin with...

And that's why the national average gap is growing...at least for now...

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I think there is a difference between the support base. DeSantis is a challenger. When you support a challenger, you are already admitting that the current frontrunner is not what you want and you are willing to back certain positions and ideas in rough form. Those get worked out throughout the primary season and that vote is fluid. There is going to be an ordered list of candidates that fit more or less what you support the most.

For Trump, there is a lot of the base that has a top 5 list that Trump has all 5 slots, and there is no examination of any issues beyond "Is their last name Trump". If it is literally not possible to break into that list, because the first criteria to be on the list is to be Trump, at some point, you have to point to the people with that list and call it what it is. This obsession with Trump and only Trump is what is killing the Republican party.

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If DeSantis can't find a way to break into that list...he won't be the R nominee...

I'm sorry to say, but it is just that simple...

FireAg said:

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Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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Okay...but my point is that there simply aren't very many that are going for DeSantis to begin with...

And that's why the national average gap is growing...at least for now...

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I think there is a difference between the support base. DeSantis is a challenger. When you support a challenger, you are already admitting that the current frontrunner is not what you want and you are willing to back certain positions and ideas in rough form. Those get worked out throughout the primary season and that vote is fluid. There is going to be an ordered list of candidates that fit more or less what you support the most.

For Trump, there is a lot of the base that has a top 5 list that Trump has all 5 slots, and there is no examination of any issues beyond "Is their last name Trump". If it is literally not possible to break into that list, because the first criteria to be on the list is to be Trump, at some point, you have to point to the people with that list and call it what it is. This obsession with Trump and only Trump is what is killing the Republican party.

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If DeSantis can't find a way to break into that list...he won't be the R nominee...

I'm sorry to say, but it is just that simple...

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We know that. Which is why there is such frustration with people still backing trump despite his completely horrible showings and glaring weaknesses.

The Banned said:

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FireAg said:

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Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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Okay...but my point is that there simply aren't very many that are going for DeSantis to begin with...

And that's why the national average gap is growing...at least for now...

---

I think there is a difference between the support base. DeSantis is a challenger. When you support a challenger, you are already admitting that the current frontrunner is not what you want and you are willing to back certain positions and ideas in rough form. Those get worked out throughout the primary season and that vote is fluid. There is going to be an ordered list of candidates that fit more or less what you support the most.

For Trump, there is a lot of the base that has a top 5 list that Trump has all 5 slots, and there is no examination of any issues beyond "Is their last name Trump". If it is literally not possible to break into that list, because the first criteria to be on the list is to be Trump, at some point, you have to point to the people with that list and call it what it is. This obsession with Trump and only Trump is what is killing the Republican party.

---

If DeSantis can't find a way to break into that list...he won't be the R nominee...

I'm sorry to say, but it is just that simple...

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We know that. Which is why there is such frustration with people still backing trump despite his completely horrible showings and glaring weaknesses.

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So then all of the "Cult45" and other derogatory language that seems to painted about with a broad brush is basically tantrum-throwing?

Because if I am honest...that's what it feels like...

Some seem more engrossed with throwing a tantrum than they are with finding a way to reverse the inertia on a large scale...