It was meaningless until Trump made it a issue
OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Ron DeSantis*** thread...
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Last: 1 mo ago by BD88
1) You know there were some other justices to thank for the decision. Do we need to praise HW and W for Thomas, Alito, and Roberts for their role?FireAg said:
This is one of those strategic attacks from DeSantis's side that I think are counterproductive, and here's why…
The average "who advanced on The Voice last night", tiktok-ing American only sees things from a 30,000' level…. So what do they see in this case? Simple…
Who was President and appointed the pro-life justices who finally overturned RoevWade? Donald Trump…
Now we can all agree here that abortion is not a protected right in the constitution and, as such, it has been returned to the states to decide how they will handle it…and I think most constitutional conservatives applaud such a decision (I know I do)… But every state now has the ability to set up their abortion laws the way their voters see fit, and as such, one state's laws will not match another's, and thus every state will have a different spin on how abortion is handled…. If you agree with one state, it puts you against the laws of another state…
But guess what? To Average Joe American, all of that is "noise"…. AJA only sees "RvW was overturned and we have DJT to thank for it"…
So this heartbeat law stuff, on a national scale, is meaningless…. It might gain you favor in a single state, but it will hurt you in another…
2) The general electorate may not care, but Iowa and SC voters cares about it so it's not counterproductive. You beat Trump in IA and it'll be a game changer. Got to push the issue here and play offense.
3) Even Bongino was saying Trump is wrong. Kudos to him for saying it not like some other guys like Knowles that tried to whitewash it.
1) yes, you and I know that, but most Americans don't care…they give Trump credit on abortion…they aren't picking apart the details, and if you think they are, the joke's on you..,
2) Precedent says winning the Iowa caucuses for an R primary candidate is actually anything but a game changer…you're free to continue to ignore those statistics…that's your right…but history is against your assumption…. I won't even get into the fact that polling in Iowa and SC currently shows DeSantis getting curb-stomped…. Don't wanna ruffle your blinders too much…
3) I'm going to circle back to the theme of #1…Average Joe American does not even know who Bongino is, let alone give a crap what he thinks…
You continue to look at this from a micro level, and not the macro…
AJA sees a forest…you're busy pointing at this tree or that…
2) Precedent says winning the Iowa caucuses for an R primary candidate is actually anything but a game changer…you're free to continue to ignore those statistics…that's your right…but history is against your assumption…. I won't even get into the fact that polling in Iowa and SC currently shows DeSantis getting curb-stomped…. Don't wanna ruffle your blinders too much…
3) I'm going to circle back to the theme of #1…Average Joe American does not even know who Bongino is, let alone give a crap what he thinks…
You continue to look at this from a micro level, and not the macro…
AJA sees a forest…you're busy pointing at this tree or that…
Nobody paying enough attention to make their primary decision on abortion policy is going to give credit to someone who has now publicly said they want to compromise with the dems on a federal law. The majority of trump primary voters aren't making that decision on anything but wanting to vote for Trump, matter what he says or does. The hope is that he continues to make more idiotic comments like this and pushes people on the fence to support DeSantis or whoever emerges after the rest of the non Trump options drop out.
And you can continue to cite polls as if the race is already over but in reality no one knows what will happen. Pretending it's a done deal at this point is pointless, but we all know how concerned you are about DeSantis chances (yet still seem to constantly defend Trump and imply it's already over…what a strange coincidence)
And you can continue to cite polls as if the race is already over but in reality no one knows what will happen. Pretending it's a done deal at this point is pointless, but we all know how concerned you are about DeSantis chances (yet still seem to constantly defend Trump and imply it's already over…what a strange coincidence)
The entire Trump strategy is based around hoping people don't pay attention. They shouldn't care he isn't campaigning much. They shouldn't actually listen to what he says when he does interviews. They shouldn't delve into issues and compare him to DeSantis. Your solution is that DeSantis should just either A) Cede all of that to Trump yet somehow make headlines or B)Just cede the race to Trump.FireAg said:
This is one of those strategic attacks from DeSantis's side that I think are counterproductive, and here's why…
The average "who advanced on The Voice last night", tiktok-ing American only sees things from a 30,000' level…. So what do they see in this case? Simple…
Who was President and appointed the pro-life justices who finally overturned RoevWade? Donald Trump…
Now we can all agree here that abortion is not a protected right in the constitution and, as such, it has been returned to the states to decide how they will handle it…and I think most constitutional conservatives applaud such a decision (I know I do)… But every state now has the ability to set up their abortion laws the way their voters see fit, and as such, one state's laws will not match another's, and thus every state will have a different spin on how abortion is handled…. If you agree with one state, it puts you against the laws of another state…
But guess what? To Average Joe American, all of that is "noise"…. AJA only sees "RvW was overturned and we have DJT to thank for it"…
So this heartbeat law stuff, on a national scale, is meaningless…. It might gain you favor in a single state, but it will hurt you in another…
DeSantis is instead betting at some point people will pay attention and listen and see what is going on. Side by side DeSantis is a much stronger candidate in every way except star power.
It's very possible that you are right, maybe it's over. There is always a chance people wake up though. Some people just want to complain about politicians though and don't want someone to actually solve problems as well though.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
Yep
Make this make sense
— Jill Anthony (@JillSAnthony) September 19, 2023
Yesterday, when I posted asking How Trump was going to win the general, if he gets the nomination, I had a bunch of Trump supporters tell me he’s going to get Dems to vote for him. My response, so the people that despise him and want to throw him in jail are…
Anyone can see this coming, except for the True Believers
You can see this coming for a mile away. Then the first Trump conviction will hit, before election day, and we'll lose the House and Senate in a landslide. https://t.co/su38uqedoC
— Tara Servatius (@TaraServatius) September 20, 2023
That's a good point.aggiehawg said:If they weren't in her office but she had access to them to hand them over, where were they? At her house? In her trunk? Crappy writing makes that confusing.Quote:Sounds like she was hiding classified documents she wasn't allowed to have...Quote:
She handed over several examples of such documents after the FBI did not turn them up in her office during a search of Mar-a-Lago in August 2022.
Trump telling his assistant to lie to FBI
likely Trump or one of his minions told her to just take them out of her office and keep them at Mar A Lago or at her house.
let's not forget that this is about the future of the party and the country- not just an election in November 2024.
the better and stronger case that DeSantis makes now, the easier it will be for him to win in 2028 if it comes down to that.
did Ronald Reagan drop out of the primary in 1976 because Gerald Ford looked like he was going to win?
how did that turn out for the good guys?
the better and stronger case that DeSantis makes now, the easier it will be for him to win in 2028 if it comes down to that.
did Ronald Reagan drop out of the primary in 1976 because Gerald Ford looked like he was going to win?
how did that turn out for the good guys?
LMCane said:
Anyone can see this coming, except for the True BelieversYou can see this coming for a mile away. Then the first Trump conviction will hit, before election day, and we'll lose the House and Senate in a landslide. https://t.co/su38uqedoC
— Tara Servatius (@TaraServatius) September 20, 2023
That's been the obvious Dem playbook for a while and the only people trying to refute it are those desperate to make excuses why Trump should be the nominee.
LMCane said:
let's not forget that this is about the future of the party and the country- not just an election in November 2024.
the better and stronger case that DeSantis makes now, the easier it will be for him to win in 2028 if it comes down to that.
did Ronald Reagan drop out of the primary in 1976 because Gerald Ford looked like he was going to win?
how did that turn out for the good guys?
That was half a century ago. The world, and the voters, are way different than back then. Obama and Trump benefitted greatly by being seen as new and different than the rest in their party when their first run happened. And they won in their first time out.
DeSantis doesn't have that four years from now. He not only won't be new, but he'll also have to deal with all the maga that hated that he was going to against their dear savior leader. And that's not including the very strong possibility that someone new and fresh in the GOP might come in and be that cycles Obama/Trump.
This is the best chance for DeSantis to win the White House. The world is too different now to think he has as good a chance in four years than he does today.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Well...the strategy is working for now...
A perusal of the updated polling averages at RCP and 538 both show Trump not only increasing the gap between himself and DeSantis for the R nomination, but now he's starting to build a lead nationally in a head-to-head with Biden, while DeSantis continues to trail in the same head-to-head battle...
A perusal of the updated polling averages at RCP and 538 both show Trump not only increasing the gap between himself and DeSantis for the R nomination, but now he's starting to build a lead nationally in a head-to-head with Biden, while DeSantis continues to trail in the same head-to-head battle...
I have still not found anything in the US Constitution that prevents a convict on any level from assuming the US Presidency...
Going further, there is nothing on the books that prevents a sitting US President from pardoning himself...
Now, I personally don't agree with either of those being possible, but by the letter of the law, there is nothing on the books to prevent either...
Going further, there is nothing on the books that prevents a sitting US President from pardoning himself...
Now, I personally don't agree with either of those being possible, but by the letter of the law, there is nothing on the books to prevent either...
FireAg said:
Well...the strategy is working for now...
A perusal of the updated polling averages at RCP and 538 both show Trump not only increasing the gap between himself and DeSantis for the R nomination, but now he's starting to build a lead nationally in a head-to-head with Biden, while DeSantis continues to trail in the same head-to-head battle...
National polls don't matter in the general. If he wins Texas and Florida my a gazillion votes but loses PA, MI, AZ, GA, etc he still loses the electoral vote.
Yes, I took civics classes in school too...I get that...
Please note that those same rules would also apply to DeSantis...
And if DeSantis is further right of Trump, what guarantees do we have that he can win swing states that Trump can't?
My question is rhetorical...
Please note that those same rules would also apply to DeSantis...
And if DeSantis is further right of Trump, what guarantees do we have that he can win swing states that Trump can't?
My question is rhetorical...
Assuming Democrats hold two blue seats in November, Republicans lost the NH House majority last night by losing an R-leaning district. The GOP nominee, who lost by 12, said that "prophets" told him Trump won in 2020.
— RRH Elections (@RRHElections) September 20, 2023
Chris Sununu carried this seat by about 22 points last year. https://t.co/n89tEoM46t
A Trump-aligned candidate just lost a New Hampshire special election in a landslide.
— Zach Montanaro (@ZachMontanaro) September 20, 2023
Gov. Sununu won the district by 22 points in 2022. Jim Guzofski just lost it by 11.
This is what awaits Republicans with Trump as our standard-bearer. #nhpolitics https://t.co/gJ2c5WyMfT
MAGA is cancer, Ebola, and AIDS all rolled into one.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Trump has the stench of failure and losing all over him, regardless of what any poll says.
Keep your rifle by your side
TRM said:
Good job DJTWATCH: Iowa voter is asked if Trump slamming Heartbeat laws as “terrible” is causing her to rethink who she’s supporting.
— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) September 19, 2023
“Actually yeah,” she responds. pic.twitter.com/4jmruObSmZIowa conservative leaders are blasting #DonaldTrump for calling laws passed in Iowa and Florida that would prohibit most abortion at roughly 6 weeks of pregnancy a "terrible thing” during an interview on NBC’s 'Meet the Press' this weekend. #iacaucus pic.twitter.com/TNrGg3S82k
— Tom Barton (@tjbarton83) September 19, 2023
I certainly hope these pastors are sharing this information with their congregations
FireAg said:
Yes, I took civics classes in school too...I get that...
Please note that those same rules would also apply to DeSantis...
And if DeSantis is further right of Trump, what guarantees do we have that he can win swing states that Trump can't?
My question is rhetorical...
Look at Kemp's results in Georgia, Youngkin in VA or DeSantis' results in Miami for reference. Obviously we don't know anything for certain but we do know they massively outperformed Trump in a purple state/county. We don't know that DeSantis can win, but we do know Trump can't and will absolutely result in a down ballot landslide (see the next post about NH).
My opinion/wishful thought is that Trump, RD, nor Biden are on the ballot come 11/24
As I have said, you may well be right. That said if you think Trump is going to win the General based on polls today you are delusional. Most of the national polling is garbage but even then it is Trump/Biden in the low 40s against each other. The Presidency will be decided in the Suburbs of 5 States and 2 of them hate Trump (GA and AZ). All of the rest is window dressing, Trump has no path.FireAg said:
Well...the strategy is working for now...
A perusal of the updated polling averages at RCP and 538 both show Trump not only increasing the gap between himself and DeSantis for the R nomination, but now he's starting to build a lead nationally in a head-to-head with Biden, while DeSantis continues to trail in the same head-to-head battle...
As for the pardon/criminal issue you also miss the point. Trump isn't even being asked that question but you can damn sure bet he will be. He's going to have a great time explaining how he is above the law and will pardon himself or how he will be spending his Presidency in legal battles either in state cases or in appeals over whether or not he could pardon himself or let the process play out. It won't matter what he says, the folks in the middle will just go "Yeah, I don't need that drama" and not vote for him.
Or you can put your faith in polls more than a year away with voters who aren't engaged and put all your chits on that bet. Democrats desperately want that scenario.
As for me I choose not to drive off the cliff until I have to.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
. . . said:Assuming Democrats hold two blue seats in November, Republicans lost the NH House majority last night by losing an R-leaning district. The GOP nominee, who lost by 12, said that "prophets" told him Trump won in 2020.
— RRH Elections (@RRHElections) September 20, 2023
Chris Sununu carried this seat by about 22 points last year. https://t.co/n89tEoM46tA Trump-aligned candidate just lost a New Hampshire special election in a landslide.
— Zach Montanaro (@ZachMontanaro) September 20, 2023
Gov. Sununu won the district by 22 points in 2022. Jim Guzofski just lost it by 11.
This is what awaits Republicans with Trump as our standard-bearer. #nhpolitics https://t.co/gJ2c5WyMfT
Always Trumpers claiming after another @ss kicking of a Trump candidate:
"but Trump in 2024 will do much better with blacks because he is being charged with crimes and they can empathize with him now!!"
If I were Trump, my argument would be that I'm not above actual laws, but I am above political persecution using fabricated "evidence"…
Oh I understand the Trump argument and I think the legal prosecutions are ridiculous. I'm not the voter you need to worry about though. The voter Trump needs is the one who didn't vote for him last time, isn't really happy with where the country is right now but also really don't like how he behaved on Jan 6.FireAg said:
If I were Trump, my argument would be that I'm not above actual laws, but I am above political persecution using fabricated "evidence"…
The same perceptions that are favoring Trump in the race against DeSantis will hurt him in the General with a different group of voters. Trump is great at firing up people that are sympathetic to him and glossing over the flaws. He has to get people that see his flaws and try to get them to be sympathetic. That's much, much harder.
DeSantis can just run either by pointing to Biden or on his record. He's not dynamic but he is also not someone that offends people unless they are a far left loon. That's usually how you win Swing voters, they vote AGAINST the person they like least. DeSantis is good at not making people hate him.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
People don't HATE DeSantis.FireAg said:
Yes, I took civics classes in school too...I get that...
Please note that those same rules would also apply to DeSantis...
And if DeSantis is further right of Trump, what guarantees do we have that he can win swing states that Trump can't?
My question is rhetorical...
The same is not the truth about Trump.
Hence all the **** he's going through...
Right now I'm willing to drive up to the edge of the cliff...aggie93 said:As I have said, you may well be right. That said if you think Trump is going to win the General based on polls today you are delusional. Most of the national polling is garbage but even then it is Trump/Biden in the low 40s against each other. The Presidency will be decided in the Suburbs of 5 States and 2 of them hate Trump (GA and AZ). All of the rest is window dressing, Trump has no path.FireAg said:
Well...the strategy is working for now...
A perusal of the updated polling averages at RCP and 538 both show Trump not only increasing the gap between himself and DeSantis for the R nomination, but now he's starting to build a lead nationally in a head-to-head with Biden, while DeSantis continues to trail in the same head-to-head battle...
As for the pardon/criminal issue you also miss the point. Trump isn't even being asked that question but you can damn sure bet he will be. He's going to have a great time explaining how he is above the law and will pardon himself or how he will be spending his Presidency in legal battles either in state cases or in appeals over whether or not he could pardon himself or let the process play out. It won't matter what he says, the folks in the middle will just go "Yeah, I don't need that drama" and not vote for him.
Or you can put your faith in polls more than a year away with voters who aren't engaged and put all your chits on that bet. Democrats desperately want that scenario.
As for me I choose not to drive off the cliff until I have to.
Haven't decided if I'm willing to drive off it yet, though...
Perhaps…but in head-to-heads against Biden currently, using the same polling entities, Trump consistently out performs DeSantis…
Again…at least for now…
Again…at least for now…
Have you come across any information that he has actually gained new national voters willing to vote for him. What groups? It seems he's not gained any in significant numbers and has only lost some who previously voted for him, particularly GOP middle America.aggie93 said:Oh I understand the Trump argument and I think the legal prosecutions are ridiculous. I'm not the voter you need to worry about though. The voter Trump needs is the one who didn't vote for him last time, isn't really happy with where the country is right now but also really don't like how he behaved on Jan 6.FireAg said:
If I were Trump, my argument would be that I'm not above actual laws, but I am above political persecution using fabricated "evidence"…
The same perceptions that are favoring Trump in the race against DeSantis will hurt him in the General with a different group of voters. Trump is great at firing up people that are sympathetic to him and glossing over the flaws. He has to get people that see his flaws and try to get them to be sympathetic. That's much, much harder.
DeSantis can just run either by pointing to Biden or on his record. He's not dynamic but he is also not someone that offends people unless they are a far left loon. That's usually how you win Swing voters, they vote AGAINST the person they like least. DeSantis is good at not making people hate him.
You asked a question and I answered.FireAg said:
Perhaps…but in head-to-heads against Biden currently, using the same polling entities, Trump consistently out performs DeSantis…
Again…at least for now…
That's it...
Trump is VERY polarizing. There's very little middle ground with him.
People either Like/Love him or they Dislike/HATE him. There's no squishy middle on him.
And the Like/Dislike is pretty far from the center...It's more like Strongly Like/Dislike.
Ag with kids said:Right now I'm willing to drive up to the edge of the cliff...aggie93 said:As I have said, you may well be right. That said if you think Trump is going to win the General based on polls today you are delusional. Most of the national polling is garbage but even then it is Trump/Biden in the low 40s against each other. The Presidency will be decided in the Suburbs of 5 States and 2 of them hate Trump (GA and AZ). All of the rest is window dressing, Trump has no path.FireAg said:
Well...the strategy is working for now...
A perusal of the updated polling averages at RCP and 538 both show Trump not only increasing the gap between himself and DeSantis for the R nomination, but now he's starting to build a lead nationally in a head-to-head with Biden, while DeSantis continues to trail in the same head-to-head battle...
As for the pardon/criminal issue you also miss the point. Trump isn't even being asked that question but you can damn sure bet he will be. He's going to have a great time explaining how he is above the law and will pardon himself or how he will be spending his Presidency in legal battles either in state cases or in appeals over whether or not he could pardon himself or let the process play out. It won't matter what he says, the folks in the middle will just go "Yeah, I don't need that drama" and not vote for him.
Or you can put your faith in polls more than a year away with voters who aren't engaged and put all your chits on that bet. Democrats desperately want that scenario.
As for me I choose not to drive off the cliff until I have to.
Haven't decided if I'm willing to drive off it yet, though...
Keep your rifle by your side
Ag with kids said:You asked a question and I answered.FireAg said:
Perhaps…but in head-to-heads against Biden currently, using the same polling entities, Trump consistently out performs DeSantis…
Again…at least for now…
That's it...
Trump is VERY polarizing. There's very little middle ground with him.
People either Like/Love him or they Dislike/HATE him. There's no squishy middle on him.
And the Like/Dislike is pretty far from the center...It's more like Strongly Like/Dislike.
let's not pretend and forget like the Trumpers do..
that the leftists HAVE NOT EVEN STARTED TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST TRUMP in 3 years.
but you can bet the One Billion Dollars they are stockpiling is going to be used to broadcast every single utterance and action Trump has taken since January 2021.
you think Trump is hated now by 53% of the population?!
wait until a billion dollars is spent by the democrats highlighting his greatest hits.
FireAg said:
Perhaps…but in head-to-heads against Biden currently, using the same polling entities, Trump consistently out performs DeSantis…
Again…at least for now…
If only we had a real world example of how Trump performs against Biden.
His policy boils down to "unleash domestic energy production" to bring back $2/gallon gasoline.TRM said:
DeSantis energy policy
https://rumble.com/v3j4mt4-ron-desantis-announces-energy-policy-rollout-in-midland-texas.html
Bit of problem with that is it would require an extended period of sub-$50 crude. Good luck convincing E&P companies to raise production levels enough to push the global market back into oversupply and start losing money again. I'm sure PXD, OXY, FANG (and their shareholders) are all champing at the bit to spend billions drilling excess wells that won't turn a profit.
Interesting decision to announce the "let's slash the price of WTI in half" plan in Midland, of all places.
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