Bryanisbest said:

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Thank you. Trump is a killer of the deep state.

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LOL!!

Wyoming said:

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Trump.

Trump can inspire the people. People will drive hundred of miles to a Trump campaign rally. I just don't see deSantis bringing that same level of enthusiasm.

I don't think DeSantis will be some great leader like Ronald Reagan was, or anywhere close. DeSantis is also a little young, and Trump has a ton more life experience and of course experience in the White House.

I think Trump is going to blow him out in the debates too

having said all that, I think DeSantis is more electable in the general election, just not in the primary.

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this is the insanity that is truly insane-

WHO CARES if the same one million people love Trump so much they act as if they are roadies and cult members and follow him everywhere?

I mean seriously?!!?

in a country of 330 million people, you need to have enough supporters to win in the electoral college.

pulling 20,000 Texans in Waco to come party is not the same thing as LOSING GEORGIA AND ARIZONA AND PENNSYLVANIA AND WISCONSIN because independents and moderates hate your guts.

I just don't see how Republicans can be so stupid to not see this.

it is NOT some theoretical argument- it's been PROVEN in three national elections already!!

aggie93 said:

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eric76 said:

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japantiger said:

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Trump's losses are his. He owns them. He was naive and out of his depth on what it takes to run the bureaucracy and he hired lousy people to go execute his wishes. Some just couldn't do the job; others deliberately sabotaged him, He owns that.

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He hired competent people then got upset when they weren't ass kissers. Is it even possible for an ass-kisser to ever make it to that high a level in anything?

Trump's way of dealing with people is to demand they bend over to his every desire and then, when they don't, he hates their guts. This is a major flaw for a President. I think that it really shows a lack of ability to effectively manage people.

What other President has ever had the turnover that Trump had? If he is reelected in 2024, what competent non-ass kisser would even want to work in his administration?

On the other hand, we never hear of this issue with DeSantis. It doesn't seem likely that DeSantis surrounds himself with what he expects to be ass-kissers and he appears to get things done as a result.

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DeSantis has a very strict "no leaks" policy. You can disagree with him in private and give counsel but make no mistake, once a decision is made it needs to be "Yes sir" and everyone stays on message. If you deviate at all you are gone and he doesn't hesitate.

The reason DeSantis does this is not only to make sure he has people loyal to him but to make sure he isn't wasting time chasing after internal problems. The drama level in his Admin is very low, you do your job and you remember what the priorities are or else you are gone. People respond to that, especially very smart people. Of course the key to making that work is DeSantis himself works his ass off and he is extremely intelligent, he's an easy guy to respect and follow. Some of the folks he has hired are absolute bulldogs btw and they lie to win and absolutely crush Democrats. He has absolutely crushed the FL Dem Party and he is continuing to pile on.

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Stated another way, do your job and your good.

LMCane said:

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Wyoming said:

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Trump.

Trump can inspire the people. People will drive hundred of miles to a Trump campaign rally. I just don't see deSantis bringing that same level of enthusiasm.

I don't think DeSantis will be some great leader like Ronald Reagan was, or anywhere close. DeSantis is also a little young, and Trump has a ton more life experience and of course experience in the White House.

I think Trump is going to blow him out in the debates too

having said all that, I think DeSantis is more electable in the general election, just not in the primary.

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this is the insanity that is truly insane-

WHO CARES if the same one million people love Trump so much they act as if they are roadies and cult members and follow him everywhere?

I mean seriously?!!?

in a country of 330 million people, you need to have enough supporters to win in the electoral college.

pulling 20,000 Texans in Waco to come party is not the same thing as LOSING GEORGIA AND ARIZONA AND PENNSYLVANIA AND WISCONSIN because independents and moderates hate your guts.

I just don't see how Republicans can be so stupid to not see this.

it is NOT some theoretical argument- it's been PROVEN in three national elections already!!

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One of my biggest concerns about Trump's prospects is exampled by the Waco rally.

How many of those 20,000 attendees were attending their first rally, and how many were attending their 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.?

I think Trump actually has a quite limited, though very enthusiastic following. But he's not growing his numbers. And that is what is needed to win national elections. By his recent actions, it's possible he's actually bleeding support as time goes on.

And to the first and most obvious retort - I place very little credence on current polls. The vast majority of those who are going to decide this election are not yet paying attention - and probably not answering the phone. The people answering the phone right now are those who are already engaged.... the base. Or, those going simply by name recognition. See who was leading 2016 at this point in the race for a prime example of how much polls should be relied upon.

AgsWin2011 said:

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Is it wrong for me to want Trump to win with DeSantis as VP? And then DeSantis as President for the next 8 years?

The voting machines and media won't allow it to happen, but I wonder if Trump would ever consider DeSantis as VP. If so, I wonder if DeSantis would accept the offer.

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It sounds nice in theory but in reality it won't work for many reasons. The GOP and MAGA movement needs to move to 2.0 which is with folks like DeSantis who have the same policies but are much more effective at actual execution of them and don't turn off so many potential voters. We also have a great bench of Republicans bubbling up with folks like Vivek and JD Vance and Chip Roy and Thomas Massie and on and on. There are a lot of folks 55 and younger who are going to be ready in the future to take the movement forward.

Trump has to let it happen though or else everything can be lost. You can justify it however you like but Trump had his shot and his time is past. He's also gotten more careless if anything and while the MSM is quiet about it now they are just waiting until he gets the nomination to bury him. We will get reminders of him meeting with Nick Fuentes and every question to him will be about one of his investigations or about Jan 6. While folks that love him will defend him and see nothing wrong that doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter that he is being mistreated. All that will matter is Independents are even more tired of him now than they were in '20 and they won't vote for him and in the meantime the Dems will be harvesting and suing for every vote possible while Trump is talking about why he is getting railroaded. It amazes me that so many people are blind to how this will play out, it's so obvious.

If you don't win in '24 then none of the rest matters. We can't wait until '28 and hope to win then, the country is already becoming unrecognizable and by then we will probably have legal Pedophilia and mandatory Trans education for kids while the government controls every aspect of our lives through Digital Currency. Folks that run the Democratic Party understand this but far too many Republicans are living in a dream world thinking that Trump is the guy to save us because he talks tough even though he is too weak to even stand up to Bud Light or Disney.

jrdaustin said:

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LMCane said:

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Wyoming said:

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Trump.

Trump can inspire the people. People will drive hundred of miles to a Trump campaign rally. I just don't see deSantis bringing that same level of enthusiasm.

I don't think DeSantis will be some great leader like Ronald Reagan was, or anywhere close. DeSantis is also a little young, and Trump has a ton more life experience and of course experience in the White House.

I think Trump is going to blow him out in the debates too

having said all that, I think DeSantis is more electable in the general election, just not in the primary.

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this is the insanity that is truly insane-

WHO CARES if the same one million people love Trump so much they act as if they are roadies and cult members and follow him everywhere?

I mean seriously?!!?

in a country of 330 million people, you need to have enough supporters to win in the electoral college.

pulling 20,000 Texans in Waco to come party is not the same thing as LOSING GEORGIA AND ARIZONA AND PENNSYLVANIA AND WISCONSIN because independents and moderates hate your guts.

I just don't see how Republicans can be so stupid to not see this.

it is NOT some theoretical argument- it's been PROVEN in three national elections already!!

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One of my biggest concerns about Trump's prospects is exampled by the Waco rally.

How many of those 20,000 attendees were attending their first rally, and how many were attending their 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.?

I think Trump actually has a quite limited, though very enthusiastic following. But he's not growing his numbers. And that is what is needed to win national elections. By his recent actions, it's possible he's actually bleeding support as time goes on.

And to the first and most obvious retort - I place very little credence on current polls. The vast majority of those who are going to decide this election are not yet paying attention - and probably not answering the phone. The people answering the phone right now are those who are already engaged.... the base. Or, those going simply by name recognition. See who was leading 2016 at this point in the race for a prime example of how much polls should be relied upon.

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It's no coincidence that Trump is doing fewer rallies btw which allows for the same folks to attend. I also question if he has the stamina to do the barnstorming he did in '20 again where he was having rally after rally every day even if he could get those crowds again.

The other problem is he isn't doing anything with it except trying to make money. He's not signing up volunteers and building his organization. He isn't telling people they need to get their friends and neighbors registered to vote and asking for lawyers to help fight election cases. It's like how California is just letting all the water they got from the rain that ended their drought just pour out into the ocean.

I want Trump to finish the plan he started. MAGA. I liked that Don fought like hell, and you have to wonder why on God's green Earth would he give up the "good life" just to have to "whole world" against him like today? The world can kiss my ass, Trump is America first. Sure Trump is arrogant, but to put a bullseye on yourself and your entire family is another level. He has been called into to multiple bogus trials that could have put him in prison for life or killed if they could prove treason. They want Trump dead and gone for a reason. He hurts them and not us.
I believe Trump wants to fix what is broken and this is his last chance.

I want Trump, the big brother, to take the slings and arrows for 4 more years while fixing what is broken. Then, the little brother, Ron can come in and actually have a chance to govern as a Conservative.
I like Ron, but he has time. If we don't get Trump first I also worry about what happens if Ron gets into office and he is hit with bogus unfounded lawsuits every month like Trump.
How will it be handled?
Who will handle it?
Who will pay for his lawyers? Ron, RNC, RINOs & Bush's?
Can Ron trust anyone but himself otherwise?
Who will he owe as a result if he doesn't pay for it?
What does that bring?
Where will his chosen lawyers come from? DC law-firms? Do you trust them?
This will happen. The swamp will swamp any Conservative/Populist Nationalist/Libertarian and lick the boot of any Globalist Uni-party puppet.
Expect Lawfare to the death, because the left can't afford to let either Trump or Desantis win.
Trump likes to fight, and he can afford the people to fight with him without owing anyone.
Trump 2024/Desantis 2028

aggie93 said:

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eric76 said:

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japantiger said:

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Trump's losses are his. He owns them. He was naive and out of his depth on what it takes to run the bureaucracy and he hired lousy people to go execute his wishes. Some just couldn't do the job; others deliberately sabotaged him, He owns that.

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He hired competent people then got upset when they weren't ass kissers. Is it even possible for an ass-kisser to ever make it to that high a level in anything?

Trump's way of dealing with people is to demand they bend over to his every desire and then, when they don't, he hates their guts. This is a major flaw for a President. I think that it really shows a lack of ability to effectively manage people.

What other President has ever had the turnover that Trump had? If he is reelected in 2024, what competent non-ass kisser would even want to work in his administration?

On the other hand, we never hear of this issue with DeSantis. It doesn't seem likely that DeSantis surrounds himself with what he expects to be ass-kissers and he appears to get things done as a result.

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DeSantis has a very strict "no leaks" policy. You can disagree with him in private and give counsel but make no mistake, once a decision is made it needs to be "Yes sir" and everyone stays on message. If you deviate at all you are gone and he doesn't hesitate.

The reason DeSantis does this is not only to make sure he has people loyal to him but to make sure he isn't wasting time chasing after internal problems. The drama level in his Admin is very low, you do your job and you remember what the priorities are or else you are gone. People respond to that, especially very smart people. Of course the key to making that work is DeSantis himself works his ass off and he is extremely intelligent, he's an easy guy to respect and follow. Some of the folks he has hired are absolute bulldogs btw and they lie to win and absolutely crush Democrats. He has absolutely crushed the FL Dem Party and he is continuing to pile on.

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Results !!!!!!

VS

A bunch of loud mouth talk.

Which do you want ??

Waltonloads08 said:

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Wyoming said:

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Trump.

Trump can inspire the people. People will drive hundred of miles to a Trump campaign rally. I just don't see deSantis bringing that same level of enthusiasm.

I don't think DeSantis will be some great leader like Ronald Reagan was, or anywhere close. DeSantis is also a little young, and Trump has a ton more life experience and of course experience in the White House.

I think Trump is going to blow him out in the debates too

having said all that, I think DeSantis is more electable in the general election, just not in the primary.

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Interesting, I am curious why you think Trump "blows him out" in debates? RD seems like a sharp guy that would be well prepared. Have to disagree on 44 being too young, frankly I think Trump and Biden both have an age problem- neither is as sharp as they were at 44. Thanks for the comments.

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I think the typical "trump is too old" comment I see repeated on here is based on the presupposition that old age indicates cognitive decline.

I do agree that candidates showing signs of cognitive decline should be excluded. Biden is the prime example of this. However, Trump is showing absolutely Zero signs of cognitive decline and is much sharper than people 10-20 years younger than he.

Likewise, some viewpoints expect a certain level of intelligence and professionalism for the republican candidate that goes against Biden as if that's the qualities that are important to win. The democrat party is showing over and over that intelligence, professionalism, and speaking skills have ZERO value in who they chose as a candidate (and who actually wins in the general election).

Republicans will continue to lose if they keep the current mindset that we have to improve our checkers game to beat their chess game. It's not a level playing field at the moment. Republicans have to play the new game that the democrats are currently winning.

AgBandsman said:

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Waltonloads08 said:

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Wyoming said:

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Trump.

Trump can inspire the people. People will drive hundred of miles to a Trump campaign rally. I just don't see deSantis bringing that same level of enthusiasm.

I don't think DeSantis will be some great leader like Ronald Reagan was, or anywhere close. DeSantis is also a little young, and Trump has a ton more life experience and of course experience in the White House.

I think Trump is going to blow him out in the debates too

having said all that, I think DeSantis is more electable in the general election, just not in the primary.

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Interesting, I am curious why you think Trump "blows him out" in debates? RD seems like a sharp guy that would be well prepared. Have to disagree on 44 being too young, frankly I think Trump and Biden both have an age problem- neither is as sharp as they were at 44. Thanks for the comments.

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I think the typical "trump is too old" comment I see repeated on here is based on the presupposition that old age indicates cognitive decline.

I do agree that candidates showing signs of cognitive decline should be excluded. Biden is the prime example of this. However, Trump is showing absolutely Zero signs of cognitive decline and is much sharper than people 10-20 years younger than he.

Likewise, some viewpoints expect a certain level of intelligence and professionalism for the republican candidate that goes against Biden as if that's the qualities that are important to win. The democrat party is showing over and over that intelligence, professionalism, and speaking skills have ZERO value in who they chose as a candidate (and who actually wins in the general election).

Republicans will continue to lose if they keep the current mindset that we have to improve our checkers game to beat their chess game. It's not a level playing field at the moment. Republicans have to play the new game that the democrats are currently winning.

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I can definitely tell a difference in Trump today vs 2016 in terms of cognition. He's still very sharp and for a man of 76 he's great but in the end he IS a man of 76 that will be in his '80s in the White House.

My Dad was my hero. Son of a poor farmer in West Texas (youngest of 10) that got an Opportunity Awards scholarship to A&M. Went on to be Head Yell Leader and then served 28 years in the Air Force including 3 Tours in Vietnam. He had just incredible energy and charisma. I saw the decline in my Dad in the last few years of his life as he died at 83. Sometimes I didn't even realize it until I thought back to how he was at 70 or 60. There were still flashes of who he was but it is hard to see when someone you care deeply about just isn't what they were. The signs are there with Trump here and there, he is a little slower. He's a little more easily irritated. He gets riled faster. He is doing far fewer events. You can deny it all you want because he can still turn on the charm and he lost a few pounds but time always wins. Comparing him to Biden of course he looks amazing, comparing him to Trump of 10 or 20 years ago though....

That said debates are not about winning points and who has a better grasp of the issues. If that was the case we would be at the end of Ted Cruz's 2nd Term who is one of the best fundamental debaters I've ever seen from a technical perspective. Debates are about connecting with the audience and winning them over and Trump understands that. He doesn't debate his opponents he has a conversation with the audience and that's a gift. That said it isn't without flaws and it leaves him vulnerable. A well prepared opponent can draw him into mistakes and get him flustered. Can DeSantis? Probably but it really depends on so many things that we don't know and that is also why Trump is already screaming about format. Last thing he wants is a dry debate format where each candidate gets 2 minutes to have a cordial but firm discussion of the issues. He wants a freestyle slugfest where he can land zingers and ignore the questions. If I worked for him I would certainly push for that as well.

Good luck to getting enough DeSantis voters to show up at the primaries to beat Trump.

All I was saying is the Trump people will show up, and Trump will be very hard to beat in the primaries.

I don't disagree with you regarding Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, etc.... I know DeSantis will do better with the moderates.

Its not like our conversation is going to shift 50 million people to vote DeSantis.

I'll vote for whoever represents the republican party, which is almost assuredly going to be Trump.

Wyoming said:

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Good luck to getting enough DeSantis voters to show up at the primaries to beat Trump.

All I was saying is the Trump people will show up, and Trump will be very hard to beat in the primaries.

I don't disagree with you regarding Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, etc.... I know DeSantis will do better with the moderates.

Its not like our conversation is going to shift 50 million people to vote DeSantis.

I'll vote for whoever represents the republican party, which is almost assuredly going to be Trump.

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It's not "moderates" that Desantis will do better with. There is nothing moderate about him. He has proved that. He going to do better with people who don't want an old, narcissistic blowhard that has proven all he knows how to do is lose Republican's elections all over the country that Desantis is going to do better with.

Wyoming said:

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Good luck to getting enough DeSantis voters to show up at the primaries to beat Trump.

All I was saying is the Trump people will show up, and Trump will be very hard to beat in the primaries.

I don't disagree with you regarding Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, etc.... I know DeSantis will do better with the moderates.

Its not like our conversation is going to shift 50 million people to vote DeSantis.

I'll vote for whoever represents the republican party, which is almost assuredly going to be Trump.

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There isn't a single issue that Trump is more conservative than DeSantis and there are several issues DeSantis is significantly more conservative. That's going to be made more and more clear so it's going to put social conservatives in a tough spot if they are supporting Trump especially.

This is going to be a long campaign and even within the GOP you have people that love Trump or hate him and the more that you keep saying that anyone that is tired of Trump is some RINO/Jeb/CM the bigger the eyeroll when you are talking about DeSantis.

Just today he signed his crime bill, please tell me how "moderate" this is. Hell this is honestly a bit on the edge in terms of conservatism for me, he is not messing around. I love the bail reform stuff but I want to really understand what some of the Life in Prison/Death Penalty provisions really mean but knowing DeSantis I am confident these are well thought out provisions. He admitted in the PC he expects to be sued and for this to go to the SC to have the revisit if the Death Penalty can apply to cases that don/t involve murder. Now you can agree or disagree with that but one thing you can't do is doubt that he is EXTREMELY Conservative. DeSantis is a guy that wants Law and Order and he has no sympathy for violent criminals:

Today, I signed legislation that will:
- Makes child rapists eligible for the death penalty with the minimum sentence of life in prison without parole  
- Impose additional penalties on fentanyl and drug-related crimes targeted at children
- Protect Floridians from disastrous… pic.twitter.com/sO1mkcfm0a

— Ron DeSantis (@GovRonDeSantis) May 1, 2023

Great move about using the death penalty for raping a child.

Point I was making is DeSantis would do better in the general than Trump. But like it or not, DeSantis is likely not going to beat Trump in the primary. I don't think he has the charisma to make it happen in the primary. Just IMO.

Not saying DeSantis is a moderate, never said that.

This is a waste of time discussing it. Like this Discussion is going to make a hill of beans difference. Go ahead and pick out something from this message and go after it LOL.

Wyoming said:

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Point I was making is DeSantis would do better in the general than Trump. But like it or not, DeSantis is likely not going to beat Trump in the primary. I don't think he has the charisma to make it happen in the primary. Just IMO.

Not saying DeSantis is a moderate, never said that.

This is a waste of time discussing it. Like this Discussion is going to make a hill of beans difference. Go ahead and pick out something from this message and go after it LOL.

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This was your statement:

I know DeSantis will do better with the moderates.

Trump may well win but DeSantis is actually going to hit him from both sides. He will certainly get the folks who will literally vote for anyone not named Trump and many of those are Moderates. He is also going to get a LOT of conservatives from Trump and Trump is actually helping him with that by running to his Left on multiple issues. Not to mention a lot of those folks are going to start to remember Trump isn't exactly the paragon of Christian virtue while DeSantis is a poster boy complete with his pretty bride and cute young children.

Trump has to rely on the Populist/MAGA block which is significant but it's not as big or as solid as he pretends it is. Even at his rallies whenever he rails on DeSantis people go quiet, folks just don't like it because it is him pushing for personal loyalty to HIM instead of Trump fighting for the People.

Wyoming said:

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Point I was making is DeSantis would do better in the general than Trump. But like it or not, DeSantis is likely not going to beat Trump in the primary. I don't think he has the charisma to make it happen in the primary. Just IMO.

Not saying DeSantis is a moderate, never said that.

This is a waste of time discussing it. Like this Discussion is going to make a hill of beans difference. Go ahead and pick out something from this message and go after it LOL.

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I actually think Desantis is going to crush Trump in the primary. At least based on what I'm seeing now. Trump is just saying stupid stuff on Truth Social and being a general ass. If he avoids debating Desantis he looks weak. If he debates him he will get crushed. Meanwhile Desantis is traveling the world and putting actual, real conservative measures into place. It's a long way off, but in the end I think trump will just look like a tired, angry old man that can't hang and will get demolished.

PA24 said:

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Trump, takes a licking but keeps on ticking.

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That's what she said.

slaughtr said:

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Wyoming said:

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Point I was making is DeSantis would do better in the general than Trump. But like it or not, DeSantis is likely not going to beat Trump in the primary. I don't think he has the charisma to make it happen in the primary. Just IMO.

Not saying DeSantis is a moderate, never said that.

This is a waste of time discussing it. Like this Discussion is going to make a hill of beans difference. Go ahead and pick out something from this message and go after it LOL.

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I actually think Desantis is going to crush Trump in the primary. At least based on what I'm seeing now. Trump is just saying stupid stuff on Truth Social and being a general ass. If he avoids debating Desantis he looks weak. If he debates him he will get crushed. Meanwhile Desantis is traveling the world and putting actual, real conservative measures into place. It's a long way off, but in the end I think trump will just look like a tired, angry old man that can't hang and will get demolished.

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I hope so but right now Trump is triangulating with the MSM to attack DeSantis. Notice even at the WHC Dinner Biden laid off Trump but he went after DeSantis. They are going to try very hard to shape narratives around him and not let him get his message out. The other challengers are also only attacking DeSantis and laying off Trump because they are hoping for a VP slot or something in his Cabinet. For LIV's they may not give DeSantis a chance to get his message out.

Straight up I have no doubt DeSantis is the strongest candidate all around but he's going to have to fight a multi front war.

I think you give the majority of the voting public too much credit. Few will take the time to educate themselves on the candidates policy positions. Trump is painted as a far right extremist nazi that incited an attack on the capital. You can't get much more of a right winged perception than that.

Most will cast their vote based on sayings like maga, media induced perceptions, charisma of the candidate, etc. hits like crooked Hillary and repeating it over and laughing with the crowd works too.

I said more moderates will vote for desantis in the general, which I think is accurate, but based on their perceptions and not policy positions.

Maybe so, and if that is the case that trump looks weak and old and lost a step, I will definitely vote for DeSantis.

Be good if trump sticks around long enough to get some more nicknames out of him and let him attack the Bidens,

Stuff like hookah Hunter, china biden etc.

If desantis proves he is rhe better candidate I will vote for him, but if I was a betting man, I would bet trump in the primary.