30 years ago, the FBI killed...[Waco, TX Branch Davidians]

10,581 Views | 144 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Urban Ag
HumpitPuryear
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9:40a, 4/19/23
AG
ATF had their videographers and PR people there to record the whole thing. They had no intention of pulling off a bloodless resolution and that's why they didn't arrest Koresh in public. They wanted a nice PR win for the agency but the cult members didn't cooperate. Lot's of video, photo, and forensic evidence went missing and the site was kept off-limits. The entire front door of the compound has never been recovered which held evidence of the initial gunfire. Weird something that significant from the site has disappeared. Similar to how FBI agent phones "accidentally" get erased and FISA investigations rely on circular and fake evidence. Chuck Schumer was an unapologetic supporter of the ATF/FBI during the hearings. Tells you all you need to know about deep state cooperation and corruption.
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Adverse Event
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9:45a, 4/19/23
What bitcoin’s detractors don’t understand is monetary economics, computer science, software engineering, network protocols, and electrical systems.

It ain't much, but it's honest Proof of Work.
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Martin Cash • 9:45a, 4/19/23
Martin Cash said:
fc2112 said:
... 76 men, women and children at the Branch Division compound outside of Waco.

And no one was punished.
The FBI and ATF made plenty of mistakes, but they murdered no one. David Koresh murdered those people and no amount of spin changes that fact.
Exactly!
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Adverse Event • 9:49a, 4/19/23
Welcome to the world.


NSFW: US Soldiers Pose with Remains of Homicide Bomber
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fc2112
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In reply to TxTarpon • 9:51a, 4/19/23
There's a joke about Koresh and McVeigh running into Janet Reno in hell, but it's escaping me.
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Bulldog73
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In reply to TxTarpon • 10:45a, 4/19/23
AG
TxTarpon said:
Exactly!
But let's feel bad for the poor poor pitiful death cult leader that said he was the lamb of God.

The hero worship of the Branch Davidians lead to this:
Whataboutism noted. Not at all relevant to the OP, but noted.
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agracer
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In reply to MROD92 • 10:53a, 4/19/23
AG
MROD92 said:
ts5641 said:
After watching the recent Netflix doc on this, it truly is frightening how the feds operate. Made a terrible decision to raid, got 4 agents killed, uped the ante and ended with multiple men, women, and children dead.
And an FBI SWAT dude took a selfie in front of the burned ruins...


Not just one, almost all of them took selfies. In addition the majority took home "trophies" as keepsakes of the event
no one was taking "selfies". There were no cell phones in 1993.

They took photos of each other with film cameras.

Semantics I know but if you're going to be critical, get it right.
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Bulldog73 • 10:57a, 4/19/23
Bulldog73 said:

Whataboutism noted. Not at all relevant to the OP, but noted.
100% relevant, directly related.


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TxTarpon
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In reply to fc2112 • 10:59a, 4/19/23
fc2112 said:
There's a joke about Koresh and McVeigh running into Janet Reno in hell, but it's escaping me.
Meh, hope they enjoy
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to fka ftc • 11:01a, 4/19/23
fka ftc said:
They had a horde of illegal weapons and were gathering more at an alarming rate. They expected the feds to come calling again.
I don't doubt that. And I was definitely on the feds' side until they slaughtered all those people.

I remember reading about the stockpile and the cult in the paper before the raid happening and thinking "That sounds like trouble." It was.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to TxTarpon • 11:03a, 4/19/23
Quote:


Both Koresh and McVeigh are in hell.
If you choose to make them heroes them....oh well.
They were both pieces of ***** And so were the government types who murdered the Davidians.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 11:05a, 4/19/23
Definitely Not A Cop said:
It always blows my mind that these cults usually will have the most puritanical views of sex… except for the cult leader, he's always allowed to go around like it's a buffet. And nobody really gives a ****, or at least they excuse it.
That's how The Party always works. Including (and especially) the democrat party,
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 11:06a, 4/19/23

Quote:
And so were the government types who murdered the Davidians.
Murdered people in a child molesting David Koresh lead death cult who could have walked out surrendering except their fellow death cult members who would have shot them in back.

The kids are the innocent ones.
Their parents did that to them.
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doubledog
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11:17a, 4/19/23
A lunatics killed women and children. The FBI just encouraged and let it happen.
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B-1 83
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In reply to TxTarpon • 11:23a, 4/19/23
AG
TxTarpon said:
The OKC bombing trumps both with 168 dead and 680 injured all to avenge those killed at Waco.
Including one of my upperclassmen- Ken McCullough B-1 80 (DEA 9th floor)
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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Rapier108
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In reply to TxTarpon • 11:35a, 4/19/23
Jeez dude, no one here is "hero worshiping" the Davidians.

Saying the government royally ****ed up is not any kind of defense or worship of Koresh or the Davidians.

Edit: Now we've had some who are hero worshiping them show up.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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MROD92
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In reply to agracer • 11:35a, 4/19/23
agracer said:
MROD92 said:
ts5641 said:
After watching the recent Netflix doc on this, it truly is frightening how the feds operate. Made a terrible decision to raid, got 4 agents killed, uped the ante and ended with multiple men, women, and children dead.
And an FBI SWAT dude took a selfie in front of the burned ruins...


Not just one, almost all of them took selfies. In addition the majority took home "trophies" as keepsakes of the event
no one was taking "selfies". There were no cell phones in 1993.

They took photos of each other with film cameras.

Semantics I know but if you're going to be critical, get it right.


My apologies. No there were not cellular telephones at the time. I suppose I should have stated the majority had their photographs taken on top of the debris. And almost all took home some sort of keepsake from the events
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LHAggie20
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In reply to TxTarpon • 11:35a, 4/19/23
You sound like a fed
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sam callahan
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11:48a, 4/19/23
Koresh got his haircut at the same place at a very regular schedule. They could have arrested him without incident any of those times.

But, that wouldn't have been able to parlay that into a big budget increase.
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In reply to agracer • 11:49a, 4/19/23
Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to TxTarpon • 11:50a, 4/19/23
Quote:
The kids are the innocent ones.
The kids were most definitely innocent. I am still trying to figure out what warranted the government slaughtering everyone, which they willfully did.
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Slicer97
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In reply to TxTarpon • 11:53a, 4/19/23
AG
TxTarpon said:

Quote:
I don't think anyone is choosing to make either of those losers heroes. You can recognize both the fact that Koresh needed dealing with and that the methods employed by the ATF/FBI HRT displayed astounding incompetence are true.
See also AIM
See also MOVE
See also Black Panthers
See also KKK
FBI/ATF/IRS CID/ETC are the 800lb gorilla in the room.
If Koresh had been captured after the siege started, then he would have no status as this freedom fighter martyr hero. He would simply be a death cult leader who like to stick his wankie in little kids.
Quote:
There were no heroes in Waco.
Randy Weaver was the real deal not a cult leader.
I wasn't talking about Weaver. I was referring to Koresh and McVeigh.
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Martin Cash
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 11:55a, 4/19/23
AG
Ellis Wyatt said:
Quote:
The kids are the innocent ones.
The kids were most definitely innocent. I am still trying to figure out what warranted the government slaughtering everyone, which they willfully did.
Do you honestly believe the government murder the Davidians? If you do , I pity you.
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2
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Decay
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In reply to Martin Cash • 12:04p, 4/19/23
AG
Martin Cash said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Quote:
The kids are the innocent ones.
The kids were most definitely innocent. I am still trying to figure out what warranted the government slaughtering everyone, which they willfully did.
Do you honestly believe the government murder the Davidians? If you do , I pity you.
They could have apprehended the cult leader without even entering the compound, which would likely have broken the resolve of the crazy people and could have then talked everyone into disbanding.

Instead we got lots of dead people and a revenge bombing.

I don't think it's fair to say they murdered them. But they escalated a situation needlessly.
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The Hefty Lefty
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12:08p, 4/19/23
AG
Tarpon, tell me you have a man crush on a 6'2" grandma that wears combat boots without telling me you have......

Eh, sorry for your loss.


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Rip*91
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In reply to TxTarpon • 12:09p, 4/19/23
AG
TxTarpon said:

Quote:
No one made koresh a hero…
Read the posts.
He was like R Kelly or Jeffry Epstein who found that if he said he hated the govt he got fans.
Quote:
Why didn't the atf just arrest koresh while he was out jogging around Waco?
Because they are stupid.
Quote:
They knew this was his normal routine multiple times a week….
Yep.
His normal routine was having sex with little kids too.


Are you still an ATF agent? Or have you retired? Just curious…
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sam callahan
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12:17p, 4/19/23
This thread really exposes the lack of critical thinking skills of government defenders. But I suppose that is redundant.
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TxTarpon
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In reply to LHAggie20 • 12:20p, 4/19/23
LHAggie20 said:
You sound like a fed
You sound like Alex Jones
So there.
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ballchain
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12:30p, 4/19/23
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Rip*91 • 12:30p, 4/19/23
Rip*91 said:

Are you still an ATF agent? Or have you retired? Just curious…
As I posted previously, the ATF messed up.

Do you believe that the Davidians were opened to the seven seals?

Koresh believed he was Christ, the Lamb of God and the only one able to open the seven seals and bring about the end of the world.

Do you believe that David Koresh was Christ?

He did.

Had he surrendered he would be just another child molesting cult leader.
Going down in a blaze of glory against the govt made him a martyr and hero to some.
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TxTarpon
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In reply to The Hefty Lefty • 12:32p, 4/19/23
John Reno was scary, but the Janet Reno dance parties were funny.




Back when you NeoCons were excited about the Patriot Act(TM) I kept reminding you that one day those laws would be in the hands of an evil Janet Reno type. That happened when her minion Eric Holder got in.
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BluHorseShu
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In reply to hunter2012 • 12:33p, 4/19/23
AG
hunter2012 said:
Coming in hot...





An apples to apples comparison for sure.
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ballchain
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In reply to TxTarpon • 12:34p, 4/19/23
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 12:35p, 4/19/23

Quote:
The kids were most definitely innocent. I am still trying to figure out what warranted the government slaughtering everyone, which they willfully did.
If you listened to the Michael Berry show today, you would have heard why.
The FBI had two camps. One wanted to negotiate. One wanted to move in and crush.
Guess which one won?
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sam callahan
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12:35p, 4/19/23
Koresh was an awful guy and needed to be arrested.

Government cannot be trusted and its self serving ways led to the death of innocents.

Both can be true. Both are true.
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