Bush definitely changed the government more with the Patriot Act getting passed. You can argue that wasn't a good thing for America with 20 years of hindsight, and I would agree. I think some of Trumps changes will be similar though (I.e. the impact Gorsuch will have on the court as a boon for conservatives)

Quote:

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Now you may excuse away all of Trump's mistakes during Covid and say that no one could have done better. In the end though he was President.

---

What mistakes?

Was it a mistake to shut everything down until we learned about the virus? Was it a mistake to then compensate businesses for being shut down?

To me, the single biggest mistake was the continued payments to people to stay at home.

Trump told everyone that he didn't fire Faucci because he thought he was irrelevant. He ignored most of what Faucci told him after about 6 months in.

We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

---

We gave an extra $600/week (I think it was that much) in "unemployment" benefits. Federal added bump to pay people to sit on their ass. that was REALLY bad. That was on top of the normal unemployment payments that are funded by private businesses.

After a while, several states rejected that money. But the damage had already been done. I understand the first round. When businesses are shut down, they don't pay their employees, thus the bump was required. But we kept it way too long.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

---

Who was more responsible for lockdowns:
1. Big business, MSM, bureaucrats, medical associations, foreign governments
2. Trump

Trump as president is not this all powerful dictator so many think he is. Power is divided by sectors and unfortunately the majority of those in power hated Trump and hate the middle class / capitalists.

Science Denier said:

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Quote:

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All in all Trump accomplished the bare minimum of what one would expect a president with an R behind their name

---

What President accomplished more? Regan was great, but basically did what I mentioned above, except his failure was not some freak virus released by China. His was self-inflicted, allowing amnesty for illegals without doing anything to protect the border in the future.

Either of the Bushes? LOL.
Ford? LOL
Nixon?

---

Trump actually has a lot in common with Nixon. Nixon actually accomplished quite a bit and was re-elected in a landslide. The problem was he also was brought down by the Deep State and the MSM and he fell into their traps. The rewriting of history with Nixon is pretty incredible actually because everything is focused on the impeachment and not his actual term. The MSM HATED him and they took incredible glee at seeing him be made into the epitome of dishonor and disgrace. BTW, Nixon did it to himself just as Trump did in the end.

Personality wise they were completely different though. Nixon was highly intelligent, awkward, and paranoid. Trump is no genius, he's a cult of personality who loves the limelight, and he is overconfident and arrogant.

I agree with you, but Trump toed the line for far too long, and was in support of the initial 2 week* lockdown. I remember threads here with people arguing Trump had to shut everything down. Trump listened to the chicken littles, and then spent the remainder of his term dealing with the consequences of that decision. He should have told them to F off, and if you don't want Covid, it's your choice to go outside or not. Like every other major pandemic in history.

I think in 50-100 years, trump will be remembered (fairly or not) for the Supreme Court picks, Covid, the impeachments, and Space Force.

aggie93 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Quote:

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All in all Trump accomplished the bare minimum of what one would expect a president with an R behind their name

---

What President accomplished more? Regan was great, but basically did what I mentioned above, except his failure was not some freak virus released by China. His was self-inflicted, allowing amnesty for illegals without doing anything to protect the border in the future.

Either of the Bushes? LOL.
Ford? LOL
Nixon?

---

Trump actually has a lot in common with Nixon. Nixon actually accomplished quite a bit and was re-elected in a landslide. The problem was he also was brought down by the Deep State and the MSM and he fell into their traps. The rewriting of history with Nixon is pretty incredible actually because everything is focused on the impeachment and not his actual term. The MSM HATED him and they took incredible glee at seeing him be made into the epitome of dishonor and disgrace. BTW, Nixon did it to himself just as Trump did in the end.

Personality wise they were completely different though. Nixon was highly intelligent, awkward, and paranoid. Trump is no genius, he's a cult of personality who loves the limelight, and he is overconfident and arrogant.

---

What did Nixon accomplish that Trump didn't do better? Consider the following:
- Economy wasn't a total rebuild like Trump did
- Nixon got us out of Vietnam. Trump didn't land us in any wars
- Nixon tried to get us energy independent. Trump succeeded
- I don't actually remember the border being an issue for Nixon. Trump actually solved it, but not permanent.
- Nixon got us the start of the liberal dream of "environmentally friendly" with his NEPA. Trump got us out
of the Paris accord bull****
- NIXON ESTABLISHED THE EPA for God's sake
- Nixon was impeached for legit reasons. Trump was impeached because of a phone call

Based on actual accomplishments, I contend Trump has been the most conservative President we've had in a long time. Based on actual policy/accomplishments.

fka ftc said:

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People are not really tired of Trump. What they are tired of is the 8 years of 24/7 news cycles bashing on him for the myriad of things as Science Denier laid out and more.

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No, people really and truly tired of trump.

If you agree, then isn't the conclusion that Trump's take was largely immaterial? And that by running a more reasonable approach instead of his "art of the deal" style he was able to maintain a more moderate response. Since it was a compromise. Yes, you, I and most of F16 knew it was wrong in a vacuum. Which makes the issue more frustrating but being right and doing the optimally right thing are not always the same.
We know liberal governors would lock down. That includes the Abbotts on the republican side. MSM and social media would lie about the death totals and hospitalizations. It would have been a mass psychosis with either one extreme or the other winning. I dont blame a decision to not make covid the last stand.

Science Denier said:

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aggie93 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Quote:

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All in all Trump accomplished the bare minimum of what one would expect a president with an R behind their name

---

What President accomplished more? Regan was great, but basically did what I mentioned above, except his failure was not some freak virus released by China. His was self-inflicted, allowing amnesty for illegals without doing anything to protect the border in the future.

Either of the Bushes? LOL.
Ford? LOL
Nixon?

---

Trump actually has a lot in common with Nixon. Nixon actually accomplished quite a bit and was re-elected in a landslide. The problem was he also was brought down by the Deep State and the MSM and he fell into their traps. The rewriting of history with Nixon is pretty incredible actually because everything is focused on the impeachment and not his actual term. The MSM HATED him and they took incredible glee at seeing him be made into the epitome of dishonor and disgrace. BTW, Nixon did it to himself just as Trump did in the end.

Personality wise they were completely different though. Nixon was highly intelligent, awkward, and paranoid. Trump is no genius, he's a cult of personality who loves the limelight, and he is overconfident and arrogant.

---

What did Nixon accomplish that Trump didn't do better? Consider the following:
- Economy wasn't a total rebuild like Trump did
- Nixon got us out of Vietnam. Trump didn't land us in any wars
- Nixon tried to get us energy independent. Trump succeeded
- I don't actually remember the border being an issue for Nixon. Trump actually solved it, but not permanent.
- Nixon got us the start of the liberal dream of "environmentally friendly" with his NEPA. Trump got us out
of the Paris accord bull****
- NIXON ESTABLISHED THE EPA for God's sake
- Nixon was impeached for legit reasons. Trump was impeached because of a phone call

Based on actual accomplishments, I contend Trump has been the most conservative President we've had in a long time. Based on actual policy/accomplishments.

---

No one cares about what happened 50 years ago.

Science Denier said:

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Quote:

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Now you may excuse away all of Trump's mistakes during Covid and say that no one could have done better. In the end though he was President.

---

What mistakes?

Was it a mistake to shut everything down until we learned about the virus? Was it a mistake to then compensate businesses for being shut down?

To me, the single biggest mistake was the continued payments to people to stay at home.

Trump told everyone that he didn't fire Faucci because he thought he was irrelevant. He ignored most of what Faucci told him after about 6 months in.

---

What mistakes? Seriously?

He went back and forth on the seriousness of Covid almost daily. One day it was no big deal, the next it was catastrophic. He went all in with Fauci early on without vetting him. Any research at all would have made it clear what a Swamp creature that guy was. Trump got lured in by how Fauci gave him cover early on and he praised him as THE expert and once that monster was created and Fauci revealed himself to be what he was it was too late. Fauci just gave interview after interview hacking away at Trump's policies and making Trump look terrible. Trump tried to distance himself but he couldn't. In the end he gave him an award instead of firing him. Trump was just too afraid of taking the risk and blowback.

On lockdowns Trump would say he was in favor of them one day and opposed the next. He would attack Governors for opening or not opening. It was very inconsistent. He didn't have to balls to stick with his original policy that actually made sense at the time, "Two weeks to slow the spread". Had he just told people to re-open and stuck with "The cure can't be worse than the disease" he would have had a chance. That would have saved the economy and all the mail in voting and tactics the Dems used in the election would have never happened because he would have pulled back emergency powers.

In the end he didn't do that because he feared the press would destroy him by talking about how everyone was dying and it was all his fault. How did that work out for him? How much love and credit did he get for going along with all the Covid nonsense?

I could go on, in the end he was President and had tremendous power both in actual power and as a bully pulpit leader. He tried to play both sides though and in the end it crushed him. Hell I defended him daily both here and with friends and his inconsistencies made that harder and harder to do over time. He blew it and worse he still doesn't want to recognize what he did wrong so he can correct it next time. Everything is still someone else's fault. Sorry but HE was President and HE had more power than anyone.

Trump's Covid response was 100% political. If he'd already been elected his Covid response would have been very different.

And, of course, he's too old now.

Science Denier said:

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aggie93 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Quote:

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All in all Trump accomplished the bare minimum of what one would expect a president with an R behind their name

---

What President accomplished more? Regan was great, but basically did what I mentioned above, except his failure was not some freak virus released by China. His was self-inflicted, allowing amnesty for illegals without doing anything to protect the border in the future.

Either of the Bushes? LOL.
Ford? LOL
Nixon?

---

Trump actually has a lot in common with Nixon. Nixon actually accomplished quite a bit and was re-elected in a landslide. The problem was he also was brought down by the Deep State and the MSM and he fell into their traps. The rewriting of history with Nixon is pretty incredible actually because everything is focused on the impeachment and not his actual term. The MSM HATED him and they took incredible glee at seeing him be made into the epitome of dishonor and disgrace. BTW, Nixon did it to himself just as Trump did in the end.

Personality wise they were completely different though. Nixon was highly intelligent, awkward, and paranoid. Trump is no genius, he's a cult of personality who loves the limelight, and he is overconfident and arrogant.

---

What did Nixon accomplish that Trump didn't do better? Consider the following:
- Economy wasn't a total rebuild like Trump did
- Nixon got us out of Vietnam. Trump didn't land us in any wars
- Nixon tried to get us energy independent. Trump succeeded
- I don't actually remember the border being an issue for Nixon. Trump actually solved it, but not permanent.
- Nixon got us the start of the liberal dream of "environmentally friendly" with his NEPA. Trump got us out
of the Paris accord bull****
- NIXON ESTABLISHED THE EPA for God's sake
- Nixon was impeached for legit reasons. Trump was impeached because of a phone call

Based on actual accomplishments, I contend Trump has been the most conservative President we've had in a long time. Based on actual policy/accomplishments.

---

The point isn't to compare accomplishments but how the press treated them and took them down. BTW, if you don't think that what Nixon was doing isn't something virtually every other President has done you are naive. He just had his own people turn on him and the Deep State (Mark Felt) took him out. The deeper you look into what actually happened during Watergate it looks a lot more like a coup than anything but Nixon fell into the trap by trusting the wrong people (kind of like someone else).

Plenty I don't like about Nixon's Admin, he was liberal on a lot of issues. His main accomplishment though was coming into office in the midst of the absolute chaos of 1968 and getting the country back on track to some level of sanity. The mess he walked in to is hard to overstate as the country was literally being ripped apart with Vietnam at its peak, Tet, the MLK and Bobby Kennedy Assassinations, and massive protests everywhere that were growing increasingly out of control. The Cold War was very real at that time too and the Soviets were a true threat. Nixon did a lot of great things but he also made some big mistakes, similar to Trump.

Lots to love about Trump and I give him credit for his accomplishments. It's important though to look at things critically and step back though and see the flaws too. Without that the mistakes just get made over and over.

Quote:

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He went back and forth on the seriousness of Covid almost daily.

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OK.

Quote:

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On lockdowns Trump would say he was in favor of them one day and opposed the next.

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OK

Quote:

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I could go on

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OK. Please do. In the end, being undecided is not what impacted folk. It was payinig people to sit at home. Everything else was pretty much required.

Quote:

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The point isn't to compare accomplishments

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No. That IS the point. The argument is that Trump is somehow a lib and not conservative. His actual accomplishments are the most conservative we've had in 50 years.

Science Denier said:

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Quote:

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He went back and forth on the seriousness of Covid almost daily.

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OK.

Quote:

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On lockdowns Trump would say he was in favor of them one day and opposed the next.

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OK

Quote:

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I could go on

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OK. Please do. In the end, being undecided is not what impacted folk. It was payinig people to sit at home.

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You know there were 3 other paragraphs of content in my post but OK.

Yes, paying people to stay home was yet another mistake Trump made. Had he rescinded the emergency and refused the payoffs things would have been very different. Once again that would have taken guts and leadership though and we know that isn't fair because Fauci told him scary things and he had to bend to the will of the experts that were given to him instead of finding alternate opinions.

The buck stopped with Trump, he owns it whether it's fair or not.

Quote:

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You know there were 3 other paragraphs of content in my post but OK

---

Those were your own summaries of those paragraphs.

Quote:

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The buck stopped with Trump, he owns it whether it's fair or not.

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I agree. I stated as much. That was his mistake..

Science Denier said:

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Bonfire1996 said:

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Science Denier said:

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1. Kept us out of war
2. Lowered our taxes
3. Nominated conservative judges all over this country
4. Brought back the economy to insane levels
5. Created over 7 million jobs
6. Increased labor participation rate
7. MASSIVE deregulation that actually allowed businesses to grow
8. Incredible turnaround on illegal immigration - built the wall as well as made asylum seakers wait for their hearings outside of the US.

---

An amazing list, and why I so enthusiastically voted for him in 2020 as the alternative was basically the opposite of the above.

But ask yourself, why isn't he running on that record? Why isn't he acting like the nomination is a forgone conclusion, with that record? His greatest weakness, at this time, is independents are leaving him, hard, every week. Isn't the above list a magnet for independent voters? It sure is.

The media has figured Trump out. After seven years of trying to put him down and play gotcha, they finally figured him out. He can be baited into extremely unpopular talking points because he's aggrieved. And when he does that he brings himself down. Trump will never stop trying to make the media like him, it's been his M.O. for 50 years. He's been doing that far longer than politics, and he believes that since they loved him once, they have the capacity to love him again.

The Trump base isn't big enough for him to win the general. It was in 2016 because it included millions of educated whites who 1. Were tired of being called racist by Michelle and Barack, and 2. Couldn't stand Hillary. A significant portion of those whites are off team Trump, permanently. The media can bait Trump with effortless precision to keep those whites off team Trump by just letting Trump talk about a stolen election, Hunter, or talking about his generally likable Republican rivals.

America likes Ron DeSantis. And every time Trump trashed him, independents flee from Trump. If you can't see this, you have a tunnel vision problem.

---

He is running in that record. You just don't hear all his message. One ir two posts on Truth social or whatever it's called is hammered to death and that's all you see.

When he routs his accomplishments, he's labeled a bragging ego maniac.

Thankfully, most of his base realizes what is actually going on.

---

I just scrolled through his truth social account. When was the last time he posted about any of those things? Every recent post is a lie about DeSantis or complaining about his various indictments etc., including a bizarre unhinged all caps Easter rant.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

Bonfire1996 said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

1. Kept us out of war
2. Lowered our taxes
3. Nominated conservative judges all over this country
4. Brought back the economy to insane levels
5. Created over 7 million jobs
6. Increased labor participation rate
7. MASSIVE deregulation that actually allowed businesses to grow
8. Incredible turnaround on illegal immigration - built the wall as well as made asylum seakers wait for their hearings outside of the US.

---

An amazing list, and why I so enthusiastically voted for him in 2020 as the alternative was basically the opposite of the above.

But ask yourself, why isn't he running on that record? Why isn't he acting like the nomination is a forgone conclusion, with that record? His greatest weakness, at this time, is independents are leaving him, hard, every week. Isn't the above list a magnet for independent voters? It sure is.

The media has figured Trump out. After seven years of trying to put him down and play gotcha, they finally figured him out. He can be baited into extremely unpopular talking points because he's aggrieved. And when he does that he brings himself down. Trump will never stop trying to make the media like him, it's been his M.O. for 50 years. He's been doing that far longer than politics, and he believes that since they loved him once, they have the capacity to love him again.

The Trump base isn't big enough for him to win the general. It was in 2016 because it included millions of educated whites who 1. Were tired of being called racist by Michelle and Barack, and 2. Couldn't stand Hillary. A significant portion of those whites are off team Trump, permanently. The media can bait Trump with effortless precision to keep those whites off team Trump by just letting Trump talk about a stolen election, Hunter, or talking about his generally likable Republican rivals.

America likes Ron DeSantis. And every time Trump trashed him, independents flee from Trump. If you can't see this, you have a tunnel vision problem.

---

He is running in that record. You just don't hear all his message. One ir two posts on Truth social or whatever it's called is hammered to death and that's all you see.

When he routs his accomplishments, he's labeled a bragging ego maniac.

Thankfully, most of his base realizes what is actually going on.

---

I just scrolled through his truth social account. When was the last time he posted about any of those things? Every recent post is a lie about DeSantis or complaining about his various indictments etc., including a bizarre unhinged all caps Easter rant.

---

His last rally was last month. He explains his accomplishments at these rally's. I don't actually have an account with Truth Social.

Science Denier said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

Bonfire1996 said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

1. Kept us out of war
2. Lowered our taxes
3. Nominated conservative judges all over this country
4. Brought back the economy to insane levels
5. Created over 7 million jobs
6. Increased labor participation rate
7. MASSIVE deregulation that actually allowed businesses to grow
8. Incredible turnaround on illegal immigration - built the wall as well as made asylum seakers wait for their hearings outside of the US.

---

An amazing list, and why I so enthusiastically voted for him in 2020 as the alternative was basically the opposite of the above.

But ask yourself, why isn't he running on that record? Why isn't he acting like the nomination is a forgone conclusion, with that record? His greatest weakness, at this time, is independents are leaving him, hard, every week. Isn't the above list a magnet for independent voters? It sure is.

The media has figured Trump out. After seven years of trying to put him down and play gotcha, they finally figured him out. He can be baited into extremely unpopular talking points because he's aggrieved. And when he does that he brings himself down. Trump will never stop trying to make the media like him, it's been his M.O. for 50 years. He's been doing that far longer than politics, and he believes that since they loved him once, they have the capacity to love him again.

The Trump base isn't big enough for him to win the general. It was in 2016 because it included millions of educated whites who 1. Were tired of being called racist by Michelle and Barack, and 2. Couldn't stand Hillary. A significant portion of those whites are off team Trump, permanently. The media can bait Trump with effortless precision to keep those whites off team Trump by just letting Trump talk about a stolen election, Hunter, or talking about his generally likable Republican rivals.

America likes Ron DeSantis. And every time Trump trashed him, independents flee from Trump. If you can't see this, you have a tunnel vision problem.

---

He is running in that record. You just don't hear all his message. One ir two posts on Truth social or whatever it's called is hammered to death and that's all you see.

When he routs his accomplishments, he's labeled a bragging ego maniac.

Thankfully, most of his base realizes what is actually going on.

---

I just scrolled through his truth social account. When was the last time he posted about any of those things? Every recent post is a lie about DeSantis or complaining about his various indictments etc., including a bizarre unhinged all caps Easter rant.

---

His last rally was last month. He explains his accomplishments at these rally's. I don't actually have an account with Truth Social.

---

So he's living in the past? Got ya. So can we - on to someone new and better who doesn't lose.

"Trump, the man evil loves to hate" is becoming "Trump, the man those deluded by evil love to hate."

Science Denier said:

---

Quote:

---

The point isn't to compare accomplishments

---

No. That IS the point. The argument is that Trump is somehow a lib and not conservative. His actual accomplishments are the most conservative we've had in 50 years.

---

In some ways yes, in others no. He spent money like crazy for instance. He failed to get Obamacare repealed because he decided to insult McCain.

The point though is how history and the media treat people. Nixon was the OG "worse than Hitler" that the MSM and Deep State colluded to take him down. Look into the origins of Woodward and Bernstein and Mark Felt now that we know what we know about them. Nixon had almost 61% of the vote and won 520 Electoral Votes at his peak. That's an even higher percentage of the popular vote than Reagan in '84.

As a kid that grew up in the '80s though Nixon was seen as evil incarnate and you would think he was responsible for getting us INTO Vietnam instead of getting us out. The lies told about him were endless once I went back and researched him.

As for Trump he can try and shift the blame all he wants but his Covid response was his big test and he failed. It cost him his re-election if for no other reason than it opened the door for all the mail in ballots and Dem cheating. He couldn't see how he was being played which would be more forgivable if it hadn't happened to him already from basically every other part of the Deep State. He owns it.

Just as an aside, I don't view anything accomplished by executive order as "conservative".

Science Denier said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

Bonfire1996 said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

1. Kept us out of war
2. Lowered our taxes
3. Nominated conservative judges all over this country
4. Brought back the economy to insane levels
5. Created over 7 million jobs
6. Increased labor participation rate
7. MASSIVE deregulation that actually allowed businesses to grow
8. Incredible turnaround on illegal immigration - built the wall as well as made asylum seakers wait for their hearings outside of the US.

---

An amazing list, and why I so enthusiastically voted for him in 2020 as the alternative was basically the opposite of the above.

But ask yourself, why isn't he running on that record? Why isn't he acting like the nomination is a forgone conclusion, with that record? His greatest weakness, at this time, is independents are leaving him, hard, every week. Isn't the above list a magnet for independent voters? It sure is.

The media has figured Trump out. After seven years of trying to put him down and play gotcha, they finally figured him out. He can be baited into extremely unpopular talking points because he's aggrieved. And when he does that he brings himself down. Trump will never stop trying to make the media like him, it's been his M.O. for 50 years. He's been doing that far longer than politics, and he believes that since they loved him once, they have the capacity to love him again.

The Trump base isn't big enough for him to win the general. It was in 2016 because it included millions of educated whites who 1. Were tired of being called racist by Michelle and Barack, and 2. Couldn't stand Hillary. A significant portion of those whites are off team Trump, permanently. The media can bait Trump with effortless precision to keep those whites off team Trump by just letting Trump talk about a stolen election, Hunter, or talking about his generally likable Republican rivals.

America likes Ron DeSantis. And every time Trump trashed him, independents flee from Trump. If you can't see this, you have a tunnel vision problem.

---

He is running in that record. You just don't hear all his message. One ir two posts on Truth social or whatever it's called is hammered to death and that's all you see.

When he routs his accomplishments, he's labeled a bragging ego maniac.

Thankfully, most of his base realizes what is actually going on.

---

I just scrolled through his truth social account. When was the last time he posted about any of those things? Every recent post is a lie about DeSantis or complaining about his various indictments etc., including a bizarre unhinged all caps Easter rant.

---

His last rally was last month. He explains his accomplishments at these rally's. I don't actually have an account with Truth Social.

---

You don't need an account, but in case you'd like to browse the insane rantings of a lunatic:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump

Prime0882 said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

Bonfire1996 said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

1. Kept us out of war
2. Lowered our taxes
3. Nominated conservative judges all over this country
4. Brought back the economy to insane levels
5. Created over 7 million jobs
6. Increased labor participation rate
7. MASSIVE deregulation that actually allowed businesses to grow
8. Incredible turnaround on illegal immigration - built the wall as well as made asylum seakers wait for their hearings outside of the US.

---

An amazing list, and why I so enthusiastically voted for him in 2020 as the alternative was basically the opposite of the above.

But ask yourself, why isn't he running on that record? Why isn't he acting like the nomination is a forgone conclusion, with that record? His greatest weakness, at this time, is independents are leaving him, hard, every week. Isn't the above list a magnet for independent voters? It sure is.

The media has figured Trump out. After seven years of trying to put him down and play gotcha, they finally figured him out. He can be baited into extremely unpopular talking points because he's aggrieved. And when he does that he brings himself down. Trump will never stop trying to make the media like him, it's been his M.O. for 50 years. He's been doing that far longer than politics, and he believes that since they loved him once, they have the capacity to love him again.

The Trump base isn't big enough for him to win the general. It was in 2016 because it included millions of educated whites who 1. Were tired of being called racist by Michelle and Barack, and 2. Couldn't stand Hillary. A significant portion of those whites are off team Trump, permanently. The media can bait Trump with effortless precision to keep those whites off team Trump by just letting Trump talk about a stolen election, Hunter, or talking about his generally likable Republican rivals.

America likes Ron DeSantis. And every time Trump trashed him, independents flee from Trump. If you can't see this, you have a tunnel vision problem.

---

He is running in that record. You just don't hear all his message. One ir two posts on Truth social or whatever it's called is hammered to death and that's all you see.

When he routs his accomplishments, he's labeled a bragging ego maniac.

Thankfully, most of his base realizes what is actually going on.

---

I just scrolled through his truth social account. When was the last time he posted about any of those things? Every recent post is a lie about DeSantis or complaining about his various indictments etc., including a bizarre unhinged all caps Easter rant.

---

His last rally was last month. He explains his accomplishments at these rally's. I don't actually have an account with Truth Social.

---

So he's living in the past? Got ya. So can we - on to someone new and better who doesn't lose.

---

Typical.
1. He's not running on accomplishments. Just insults.
2. He talks about his accomplishments all the time
3. Well, he's bragging and living in the past.

texagbeliever said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

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Who was more responsible for lockdowns:
1. Big business, MSM, bureaucrats, medical associations, foreign governments
2. Trump

Trump as president is not this all powerful dictator so many think he is. Power is divided by sectors and unfortunately the majority of those in power hated Trump and hate the middle class / capitalists.

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Here is a hint only one of those had any power to do enforce and that was #2. All the others could squeal all they want but none of them had the force of government behind them A true leader would have done so. Again if Trump was bullied by all of the group in 1 why would you want to re-elect someone who is susceptible to that?

He proved he is spineless when it matters.

BTW what is capitalist about all of the stimulus payments, unemployment pay hikes, and frozen student loan payments?

Science Denier said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Science Denier said:

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Bonfire1996 said:

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Science Denier said:

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1. Kept us out of war
2. Lowered our taxes
3. Nominated conservative judges all over this country
4. Brought back the economy to insane levels
5. Created over 7 million jobs
6. Increased labor participation rate
7. MASSIVE deregulation that actually allowed businesses to grow
8. Incredible turnaround on illegal immigration - built the wall as well as made asylum seakers wait for their hearings outside of the US.

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An amazing list, and why I so enthusiastically voted for him in 2020 as the alternative was basically the opposite of the above.

But ask yourself, why isn't he running on that record? Why isn't he acting like the nomination is a forgone conclusion, with that record? His greatest weakness, at this time, is independents are leaving him, hard, every week. Isn't the above list a magnet for independent voters? It sure is.

The media has figured Trump out. After seven years of trying to put him down and play gotcha, they finally figured him out. He can be baited into extremely unpopular talking points because he's aggrieved. And when he does that he brings himself down. Trump will never stop trying to make the media like him, it's been his M.O. for 50 years. He's been doing that far longer than politics, and he believes that since they loved him once, they have the capacity to love him again.

The Trump base isn't big enough for him to win the general. It was in 2016 because it included millions of educated whites who 1. Were tired of being called racist by Michelle and Barack, and 2. Couldn't stand Hillary. A significant portion of those whites are off team Trump, permanently. The media can bait Trump with effortless precision to keep those whites off team Trump by just letting Trump talk about a stolen election, Hunter, or talking about his generally likable Republican rivals.

America likes Ron DeSantis. And every time Trump trashed him, independents flee from Trump. If you can't see this, you have a tunnel vision problem.

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He is running in that record. You just don't hear all his message. One ir two posts on Truth social or whatever it's called is hammered to death and that's all you see.

When he routs his accomplishments, he's labeled a bragging ego maniac.

Thankfully, most of his base realizes what is actually going on.

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I just scrolled through his truth social account. When was the last time he posted about any of those things? Every recent post is a lie about DeSantis or complaining about his various indictments etc., including a bizarre unhinged all caps Easter rant.

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His last rally was last month. He explains his accomplishments at these rally's. I don't actually have an account with Truth Social.

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The main points to come out of his rally were starting off with the Jan 6 Choir to talk about the stolen election, lots of focus on his inevitable arrest and investigations, and of course his rants against DeSantis. Somewhere in there he managed to talk a little policy.

If he wants to start a policy tour though and talk about his agenda for his next Admin that's great. Details would be nice as opposed to "Drain the Swamp". DeSantis and Vivek are doing deep policy dives and answering questions, why not Trump? I'd love to know more about what his team is going to look like since that was huge problem for him last time. I'm very concerned about him surrounding himself with guys like Graham

The answer is of course simple, Trump gets distracted with ease and he knows that using emotion driven themes with little detail gets him lots of adulation. The UFC event was perfect. It's all image.

Don't forget he is also too old.

AgDev01 said:

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Don't forget he is also too old.

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And getting older every day.

AgDev01 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

---

Who was more responsible for lockdowns:
1. Big business, MSM, bureaucrats, medical associations, foreign governments
2. Trump

Trump as president is not this all powerful dictator so many think he is. Power is divided by sectors and unfortunately the majority of those in power hated Trump and hate the middle class / capitalists.

---

Here is a hint only one of those had any power to do enforce and that was #2. All the others could squeal all they want but none of them had the force of government behind them A true leader would have done so. Again if Trump was bullied by all of the group in 1 why would you want to re-elect someone who is susceptible to that?

He proved he is spineless when it matters.

BTW what is capitalist about all of the stimulus payments, unemployment pay hikes, and frozen student loan payments?

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Okay so we fundamentally disagree on where power comes from. You think it is titles i think it is actual control over "production".

texagbeliever said:

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AgDev01 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

---

Who was more responsible for lockdowns:
1. Big business, MSM, bureaucrats, medical associations, foreign governments
2. Trump

Trump as president is not this all powerful dictator so many think he is. Power is divided by sectors and unfortunately the majority of those in power hated Trump and hate the middle class / capitalists.

---

Here is a hint only one of those had any power to do enforce and that was #2. All the others could squeal all they want but none of them had the force of government behind them A true leader would have done so. Again if Trump was bullied by all of the group in 1 why would you want to re-elect someone who is susceptible to that?

He proved he is spineless when it matters.

BTW what is capitalist about all of the stimulus payments, unemployment pay hikes, and frozen student loan payments?

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Okay so we fundamentally disagree on where power comes from. You think it is titles i think it is actual control over "production".

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Lol. My notice to shut down my business came from the Ft Bend Sheriff's office.

texagbeliever said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

---

Who was more responsible for lockdowns:
1. Big business, MSM, bureaucrats, medical associations, foreign governments
2. Trump

Trump as president is not this all powerful dictator so many think he is. Power is divided by sectors and unfortunately the majority of those in power hated Trump and hate the middle class / capitalists.

---

on the one hand you are claiming that Trump was basically a bystander to whatever happened during COVID.

on the other hand, the Always Trumpers loudly proclaim that ONLY Trump can "drain the swamp"

so which is it?!

LMCane said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We didn't really "pay" people. We issued what, three checks over three years after nationalizing our economy and shutting down anyone who didn't have a good lobbying industry?

If you are going to dictate who's allowed to work and who is isn't, those people are your vassals now. We treated these people like the worst vassals in history.

---

Who was more responsible for lockdowns:
1. Big business, MSM, bureaucrats, medical associations, foreign governments
2. Trump

Trump as president is not this all powerful dictator so many think he is. Power is divided by sectors and unfortunately the majority of those in power hated Trump and hate the middle class / capitalists.

---

on the one hand you are claiming that Trump was basically a bystander to whatever happened during COVID.

on the other hand, the Always Trumpers loudly proclaim that ONLY Trump can "drain the swamp"

so which is it?!

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Lol
1. The swamp is DC
2. DC doesn't run state government
3. He can drain the swamp and let state governments function at the same time.

Pretty easy explanation.