Watch the video from the Fort Worth church shooting in 2019. That's how you address the issue and minimize risk to kids. If a few of these attempted school shootings get nipped in the bud early it'll stop being an attractive option for nut jobs.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

DisAg said:

---

1991sir said:

---

Let's just say they do ban the second amendment… do we think this stops? Are the bad guys going to turn all their guns in?

---

That is not the point. We don't want this to happen.

We cannot just throw up our hands and say, "not our problem." Nor can we use this as logic. We need our lawmakers who treasure the 2a to develop concrete solutions.

I know democrats will fight this at every turn, but it allows us to have an answer (once we have one) to this problem. We can say, "this would not have happened if you allowed us to pass this bill."

---

Government only makes issue worse.

We need parents to parent and people to take responsibility. We need fathers in homes and a return to morality.

---

I agree with all this. I guess my main concern is this leftist infection that is eroding our government. I am at the point where I am like the lesser of two evils.

barbacoa taco said:

---

yeah. In Nashville and Uvalde, as is the case with most mass shootings, the shooter is at least known to law enforcement. Yet they still almost always get their weapons legally without issue. I am convinced a national red flag database would be a step in the right direction.

---

Too rich. I am 100 percent convinced your ability to perform logical analysis to reach a conclusion as to policies, especially when applied to/related to government is…not great.

barbacoa taco said:

---

yeah. In Nashville and Uvalde, as is the case with most mass shootings, the shooter is at least known to law enforcement. Yet they still almost always get their weapons legally without issue. I am convinced a national red flag database would be a step in the right direction.

---

Databases are a non-starter.

Solutions need to take this into account. The last thing you want as a gun owner is your name in a government database. Take a look at the current state of the executive branch. Enough said on that.

barbacoa taco said:

---

yeah. In Nashville and Uvalde, as is the case with most mass shootings, the shooter is at least known to law enforcement. Yet they still almost always get their weapons legally without issue. I am convinced a national red flag database would be a step in the right direction.

---

Red flag laws are questionable constitutionally even when the person is actually crazy but what about when they are misappropriated and used to deprive normal citizens of their rights? I'm not completely opposed, I just doubt any system could be devised that sufficiently mitigate my concerns.

Some people on here don't understand how schools work with regards to budgets, etc.

I do think there are some things that can be done, namely in regards to mental illness and more background checks, but of course that's not going to stop all of them.


On the "arm the teachers" narrative…

There are over 115,000 schools in the United States.
Let's say you arm 3 teachers per school on average.
345,000 guns sitting in our kids' schools.

Let's say that over time 99% of them are locked up properly, stored correctly, etc. I was a teacher in my past and I think that assumption is high, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. That's 3,450 guns improperly stored and not locked up across the country.

I know how we acted in high school, but if the group of football players that snooped through teacher's desks trying to find test answers instead found a loaded gun……

I just think there's a bunch of logistics that need to be thought through and it would cost billions of dollars to do it right. And even then you would end up having a situation where a teachers gun was found by a student and used to kill another student. How does that look on the news?

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

Some people on here don't understand how schools work with regards to budgets, etc.

I do think there are some things that can be done, namely in regards to mental illness and more background checks, but of course that's not going to stop all of them.


On the "arm the teachers" narrative…

There are over 115,000 schools in the United States.
Let's say you arm 3 teachers per school on average.
345,000 guns sitting in our kids' schools.

Let's say that over time 99% of them are locked up properly, stored correctly, etc. I was a teacher in my past and I think that assumption is high, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. That's 3,450 guns improperly stored and not locked up across the country.

I know how we acted in high school, but if the group of football players that snooped through teacher's desks trying to find test answers instead found a loaded gun……

I just think there's a bunch of logistics that need to be thought through and it would cost billions of dollars to do it right. And even then you would end up having a situation where a teachers gun was found by a student and used to kill another student. How does that look on the news?

---

Better than 3 nine year olds and three adults.

TefIon Don said:

---

Remove windows from all entryways, including from doors. Security film on all windows that someone can crawl/climb through. Armed officer stationed at every school, always centrally located so they can respond to an attack from any entrance within seconds and return fire.

Edit: no single entry/exit due to fire risk.

---

This is the answer we could actually implement.

Make schools impossible to get into.

Security film on windows takes an axe and several minutes to get into.

I can't imagine this NOT being concealed carry. If not, it's a waste of time.

do you really think teachers are just gunna store a loaded gun in the desk drawer for anyone to find or access? give me a break.

they are being carried on them

barbacoa taco said:

---

DatTallArchitect said:

---

There are schools districts that have armed faculty/staff, taken down "gun-free zone" signs and put up signage stating that some faculty/staff are carrying concealed. These districts are not having issues with shootings. The cowards doing these attacks are looking for easy targets where they will not have to engage in combat until they have killed many innocent people. Gun-free zones are one of the worst concepts ever.

---

Arming teachers sounds good in theory but it's also an unrealistic fantasy to think it's a feasible solution.

First, they didn't sign up to be put on the front lines. We can't just tell a bunch of teachers, most of whom are untrained in combat, that the onus is on them to protect kids from school shootings.

Second, let's say we do arm them. We have NO IDEA how they're going to react in high stress situations. The vast majority of people, much less people who have shot guns, have not been in high stress situations where they need to use a gun to defend themselves. There are so many things that can go wrong and I can easily see the situation being worse, not better, with teachers being armed.

---

There are ALREADY districts that have done this. To say it is unrealistic is absurd. Furthermore, I know teachers that want to be a able to carry but can't in their district. Quit burying your head in the sand. It can happen because it is already happening in forward thinking districts.

TheTruthsLastHope said:

---

TefIon Don said:

---

Single entry/exit to all schools. Remove windows from all entryways, including from doors. Security film on all windows that someone can crawl/climb through. Armed officer stationed at every school, always centrally located so they can respond to an attack from any entrance within seconds and return fire.

---

Fire codes exist for a reason. Buildings holding large amounts of people have been built like this in the past. Will cause for catastrophe deaths in emergency situations such as fires, natural disasters, etc. Engineers and architects have the intellect and knowledge to no longer make buildings those ways anymore.

---

If you're in Texas, your district is already installing:

- Single open entry and badge access for the rest
- Propped door alarms
- Hardened doors and vestibules
- State audits of all of the above

It's absolutely possible to secure a school. This latest shooting happened at a church private school, which in theory could make the same modifications.

AustinCountyAg said:

---

do you really think teachers are just gunna store a loaded gun in the desk drawer for anyone to find or access? give me a break.

they are being carried on them

---

In my head, the "arming the teachers" plan involves locked storage in the teacher's room where only the trained personnel know the codes.

There's zero chance the public at large goes for concealed carry.

#1 most of the country doesn't understand it like we do.

#2 there will be a significant number of teachers across the country that go through the training but still don't know what the hell they are doing.


Never under-estimate the incompetence of the lowest 10% of a large sample size.

Quote:

---

Resource Officers need to be high-paying job IMHO.

70k start (maybe more with background and experience), you are protecting our children. We need a high quality, highly trained candidate in the schools.

Don't skimp on salary/benefits when it comes to this.

---

When Greg finally starts to measure up to Ron, our GREAT STATE OF TEXAS will have state funds following the student vs. the ISD. When the local private school implements on campus security consisting of highly vetted personnel, do you find this as a selling point to choose that campus? Privatizing education will open many doors.

Thanks for the graphic. It appears we did something right to reduce vehicle deaths. But firearms is going the wrong direction.

There are plenty of solutions already in place, as well documented in this thread. I don't see why we need a national solution. Each school district in Texas has the tools to make students and educators safe. If your school board isn't choosing to use those tools, either get another school board or get another district.

Let's repeat, for those in the back who can't read. There are already districts who have implemented armed teachers. It is ALREADY working. The concerns about securing weapons, accidental discharge, unwilling teachers, sneaky students stealing weapons....Look to the districts who have this in place. None of that is happening or you can bet your aunt's fanny it would be splashed in headlines worldwide.

I don't want to arm the teachers. I want trained armed guards.

3-4 dudes with AR's that sit in a room watching security cameras all day that are trained to aggressively respond to an active shooter and drop them before they even get in the door.

Hire veterans. Give them a background check. Buy them body armor, radios, flashbangs and weapons then pay to train them to respond to that one very specific scenario.

The lib response is "don't turn our schools into prisons..."

I'd argue that 99% of the time these guys would be out of sight, out of mind.

you need to read up on current practices in place before spouting crap thats "in your head"

88planoAg said:

---

Let's repeat, for those in the back who can't read. There are already districts who have implemented armed teachers. It is ALREADY working. The concerns about securing weapons, accidental discharge, unwilling teachers, sneaky students stealing weapons....Look to the districts who have this in place. None of that is happening or you can bet your aunt's fanny it would be splashed in headlines worldwide.

---

There 100% are districts that can handle this and handle it well. I have no doubt of what you are saying. I was a teacher in my past and know a handful of teachers I would 1,000% trust to have a firearm on their hip while they were teaching. I also know a handful of teachers that would accidentally shoot their own foot before they'd be any kind of help in an emergency situation.

When you roll that out to the districts that can't handle it is where the problem will be.

chickencoupe16 said:

---

barbacoa taco said:

---

yeah. In Nashville and Uvalde, as is the case with most mass shootings, the shooter is at least known to law enforcement. Yet they still almost always get their weapons legally without issue. I am convinced a national red flag database would be a step in the right direction.

---

Red flag laws are questionable constitutionally even when the person is actually crazy but what about when they are misappropriated and used to deprive normal citizens of their rights? I'm not completely opposed, I just doubt any system could be devised that sufficiently mitigate my concerns.

---

It would need a lot of work and meticulous drafting to ensure it's constitutionally sound and does not harm the rights of law abiding citizens. It would need to follow the principles of due process to allow red flags to be lifted by court order. It is difficult but doable. I reject the notion that red flag laws are unconstitutional on their face.

AustinCountyAg said:

---

you need to read up on current practices in place before spouting crap thats "in your head"

---

Hey Austin - I would appreciate a little more civil dialogue.

I don't really care what current practices are on the (probably mostly rural) schools that have implemented teacher carry. I'm trying to imagine what the proposal would look like for nation-wide implementation.

Do you have any literature on that? If so, I would love to read up on it.

ttha_aggie_09 said:

---

Quote:

---

I'm pro-2A and hunt multiple times per year, own multiple AR15's and cans but for me every possible solution is on the table.

---

Then you're not pro-2A…

---

You know what he means...but no one misses an opportunity to plug the "gee I'm sorry kids are dying and I have no solutions...BUT YOU BETTER NOT TAKE MY GUNS!!"..... If you don't allow mentally ill people to own guns then you're not Pro 2A

Slyfox07 said:

---

I don't want to arm the teachers. I want trained armed guards.

3-4 dudes with AR's that sit in a room watching security cameras all day that are trained to aggressively respond to an active shooter and drop them before they even get in the door.

---

What popped in my head

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

AustinCountyAg said:

---

you need to read up on current practices in place before spouting crap thats "in your head"

---

Hey Austin - I would appreciate a little more civil dialogue.

I don't really care what current practices are on the (probably mostly rural) schools that have implemented

teacher carry. I'm trying to imagine what the proposal would look like for nation-wide implementation.

Do you have any literature on that? If so, I would love to read up on it.

---

He is being plenty civil considering how obtuse you are being.

96ags said:

---

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

AustinCountyAg said:

---

you need to read up on current practices in place before spouting crap thats "in your head"

---

Hey Austin - I would appreciate a little more civil dialogue.

I don't really care what current practices are on the (probably mostly rural) schools that have implemented

teacher carry. I'm trying to imagine what the proposal would look like for nation-wide implementation.

Do you have any literature on that? If so, I would love to read up on it.

---

He is being plenty civil considering how obtuse you are being.

---

How am I being obtuse? I think the only disagreement with my post has been that others feel like teachers would concealed carry the firearms where as I think the guns would be in a locked safe in the classroom.

I'm not understanding the emotion here on that disagreement.

This is such a tough issue to tackle.

For the first time in my life, I went with my girlfriend and her family to a firearms range a few weeks back.

I was very ignorant to what goes on there and I had preconceived notions which were completely unravelled. I was expecting a large contingent of January 6th rioters acting like the Cowboys in the saloon in the movie Tombstone.

I was completely wrong. I noticed a large group of socially responsible and well trained firearms owners exercising their constitutional right to train with and own firearms.

They deserve every freedom possible to enjoy this right and should be able to acquire weapons to be owned responsibly. They aren't the problem.

The problem is statistics.

As a policy maker for nation wide policy, you have to form policy based upon the outliers; the weakest links. I cant drive drunk and do cocaine because someone else ran over a kid and overdosed.

It goes back to one maxim. The more firearms in society, the higher the chance of a firearms related incident. It is as true as gravity. It is as true as anything else.

Not sure what you do here. Children getting slaughtered in schools cannot continue. The young lady/man purchased their weapons legally.

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

96ags said:

---

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

AustinCountyAg said:

---

you need to read up on current practices in place before spouting crap thats "in your head"

---

Hey Austin - I would appreciate a little more civil dialogue.

I don't really care what current practices are on the (probably mostly rural) schools that have implemented

teacher carry. I'm trying to imagine what the proposal would look like for nation-wide implementation.

Do you have any literature on that? If so, I would love to read up on it.

---

He is being plenty civil considering how obtuse you are being.

---

How am I being obtuse? I think the only disagreement with my post has been that others feel like teachers would concealed carry the firearms where as I think the guns would be in a locked safe in the classroom.

I'm not understanding the emotion here on that disagreement.

---

I have no emotional reaction to your post other than annoyance that you keep saying and asking the same questions that have been answered multiple times.

You keep throwing out nonsensical theoretical scenarios when real life, already implemented examples are being spoon fed to you.

Sarge 91 said:

---

Let's talk cost to fund armed guards. There are approximately 135,000 public and private schools in the US. Some are big high schools and would need more guards vs small elementaries that need fewer. For the sake of argument, average of 3 guards per school. At an annual cost of $50,000 per guard, that's $150,000 per school, multiplied by the number of schools gives us $20,250,000,000 per year.

The Dept of Ed annual budget this year is $68,000,000,000. Biden's "budget" has proposed increasing that to $88,000,000,000. So, for the cost of Joe's proposed increased in the DOEd budget, we could fund all schools' security.

Or even better, eliminate the DOEd altogether.

---

Holy crap. I went back and read through the older pages that I skipped and someone made an extremely similar post to mine, just better thought out. Same number of schools pulled (not that surprising) and same average of guards/armed teachers per school.

Kind of freaky. My fault for not reading all the way through before I jumped in.

BSM said:

---

Thanks for the graphic. It appears we did something right to reduce vehicle deaths. But firearms is going the wrong direction.

---

The graphic is wrong, it includes adults.

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

Sarge 91 said:

---

Let's talk cost to fund armed guards. There are approximately 135,000 public and private schools in the US. Some are big high schools and would need more guards vs small elementaries that need fewer. For the sake of argument, average of 3 guards per school. At an annual cost of $50,000 per guard, that's $150,000 per school, multiplied by the number of schools gives us $20,250,000,000 per year.

The Dept of Ed annual budget this year is $68,000,000,000. Biden's "budget" has proposed increasing that to $88,000,000,000. So, for the cost of Joe's proposed increased in the DOEd budget, we could fund all schools' security.

Or even better, eliminate the DOEd altogether.

---

Holy crap. I went back and read through the older pages that I skipped and someone made an extremely similar post to mine, just better thought out. Same number of schools pulled (not that surprising) and same average of guards/armed teachers per school.

Kind of freaky. My fault for not reading all the way through before I jumped in.

---

Seems like an opportunity for a new contracting business.

The Texas Sheepdogs.

Anybody want to go into business and land a 9 figure gubment contract?

Slyfox07 said:

---

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

Sarge 91 said:

---

Let's talk cost to fund armed guards. There are approximately 135,000 public and private schools in the US. Some are big high schools and would need more guards vs small elementaries that need fewer. For the sake of argument, average of 3 guards per school. At an annual cost of $50,000 per guard, that's $150,000 per school, multiplied by the number of schools gives us $20,250,000,000 per year.

The Dept of Ed annual budget this year is $68,000,000,000. Biden's "budget" has proposed increasing that to $88,000,000,000. So, for the cost of Joe's proposed increased in the DOEd budget, we could fund all schools' security.

Or even better, eliminate the DOEd altogether.

---

Holy crap. I went back and read through the older pages that I skipped and someone made an extremely similar post to mine, just better thought out. Same number of schools pulled (not that surprising) and same average of guards/armed teachers per school.

Kind of freaky. My fault for not reading all the way through before I jumped in.

---

Seems like an opportunity for a new contracting business.

The Texas Sheepdogs.

Anybody want to go into business and land a 9 figure gubment contract?

---

The "training teacher" mechanism has merit as far as I'm concerned.

- Security guard. Most schools have an armed guard.
- Train the teachers that want to be trained. Make it volunteer, but incentivize it. $2500 stipend per semester that includes two all day "teacher defense work days" per semester where they can undergone professional training. May require a 20-40 hour fundamentals training prior to first year in the program.
- Volunteer parents that undergo training similar to that outlined above.

The people with skin in the game on campus are really the only way to ensure they're adequately protected. The mom in uvalde who went into the school and recovered her kid showed more heroism than any of the paid professionals supposedly guarding us.

You will never achieve the results you want with a paid professional. There will absolutely be qualified professionals who are in it for the right reason, but there will be many more in it for the paycheck and easy career.

No there is not. **** happens. Kids die. All kinds of ways. School.shootings is a tiny fraction. Roughly 225,000 die unexpectedly.

Wrec86 Ag said:

---

AustinCountyAg said:

---

do you really think teachers are just gunna store a loaded gun in the desk drawer for anyone to find or access? give me a break.

they are being carried on them

---

In my head, the "arming the teachers" plan involves locked storage in the teacher's room where only the trained personnel know the codes.

There's zero chance the public at large goes for concealed carry.

#1 most of the country doesn't understand it like we do.

#2 there will be a significant number of teachers across the country that go through the training but still don't know what the hell they are doing.


Never under-estimate the incompetence of the lowest 10% of a large sample size.

---

Districts are doing concealed carry, and that is the correct way of doing it. The ones I know of, nobody knows who is armed and who isn't. There shouldn't be a way for a perp to know where the force could come from.

Edit due to autocorrect