This is like saying all Germans should be put down due to Adolf Hitlers actions.

I could not disagree more.

BuddysBud said:

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Gunny456 said:

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Interesting that the Doberman and Rottweiler is in the Working Group of AKC whereas German Shepherds, Dutch Shepherds, Malinois etc. are in the Herding Group.

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I stand corrected, but it is interesting how Hollywood would choose German breeds to be the evil ones in their movies.

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Wait till they add German shorthaired pointers to the evil category!

Except there was just one Adolf Hitler. The comparison frankly makes no sense.

MediAg13 said:

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Neehau said:

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This is like saying all Germans should be put down due to Adolf Hitlers actions.

I could not disagree more.

---

The ridiculous arguments and comparisons just prove the OPs point.

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Not really. On a biological level, we are very similar to animals. We are animals. We are made up of the exact same stuff. I can go into specifics if you like

Our status as the apex animal on the planet, currently, does not grant us a right to exterminate other species. That is natures job if and when nature decides to do so.

I can't help but wonder how deaths by German Schnauzers compare to deaths by German Mausers.

/A CM, flopping about, searching for a gotcha

bmks270 said:

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I wouldn't let a toddler play with a loaded gun or a pit bull.

That's the only analogy I'd make between guns and pit bulls.

Let's actually look at the stats:

2015:

Quote:

---

Last year, according to the Washington Post, 13 toddlers age 3 or younger accidentally killed themselves with a gun, 18 injured themselves, 10 injured others, and two killed other people.

---

2015:

Quote:

---

Annual data from 2015 shows that 39% (14) of the fatality victims were children ages 9-years and younger,

Together, pit bulls (28) and rottweilers (4), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 89% of the total recorded deaths in 2015.

---

https://time.com/4311066/toddlers-guns-shoot-parents/



2015 data shows 38 gun deaths age 0-9 excluding homicide.


https://www.kidsdata.org/topic/2005/firearm-deaths-age-cause/table#fmt=3006&loc=1,2&tf=84&ch=733,1404,445,446,1308,532,534,1643&sortColumnId=0&sortType=asc


Ages 0-9 in 2015:
14 deaths from dangerous dog breeds.
38 deaths from fire arms not ruled homicide.

300+ million guns
being generous here 7 million pit bulls and Rottweilers and other dangerous breeds.

Doing the numbers it appears that a child age 0-9 is 15x more likely to be killed by an aggressive dog breed than a firearm (excluding homicides).

---

Can i lock a pitbull in a gun safe?

Neehau said:

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MediAg13 said:

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Neehau said:

---

This is like saying all Germans should be put down due to Adolf Hitlers actions.

I could not disagree more.

---

The ridiculous arguments and comparisons just prove the OPs point.

---

Not really. On a biological level, we are very similar to animals. We are animals. We are made up of the exact same stuff. I can go into specifics if you like

Our status as the apex animal on the planet, currently, does not grant us a right to exterminate other species. That is natures job if and when nature decides to do so.

---

Your point just took such a hard left turn I'm not sure where you're headed at this point.

But as animals and the apex predator on the planet it sounds like nature would be taking its course if we made a decision regarding another species.

That being said I don't actually support the idea of killing an entire species. But would support pit owners being charged accordingly when their dog snaps. Same as if my toddler got ahold of a gun that wasn't properly secured.

I travel all over for a living. Lots of it in rural areas. I have often noticed that whenever I see someone with a pit bull its usually a dude driving a rust bucket small size pick up that smokes like a 1800's locomotive..... the man looks like he has not shaved for two weeks, covered in tattoos, about 5'3", very few teeth, and his wife/girlfriend is pushing 250 lbs. also covered with tattoos and wearing yoga pants and a tank top.
That seems to be the essential pit bull owner.
I always feel sorry for the dog.

Gunny456 said:

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Actually the meanest dog I ever was around was my aunts two chihuahuas. I would stay with them for about 4 weeks during the summer at their lake house when I was a kid. They had two chihuahuas named "Pepe" and " Mario".
By the end of the 4 weeks I looked like I played with a roll of barb wire. They bit me like everyday for something!

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Yeah, my view of Chihuahua owners is actually very low. They buy a breed that is known to bite regularly, but laugh it off because the dog is too weak for its poor behavior to cause severe injury. Pit owners may be playing roulette, but purse-dog owners bought a dog that's guaranteed to bite and aggravate others.

Part of what confuses me about most pit owners is the why. Of all the options, why THAT breed? Want the look in a family friendly package: get a boxer. Want a dog that can scare outsiders: get a mastiff. Only if you're looking to deny access to a place do I see Pits as a potentially sound option.

What's the point of owning a pitbull knowing the likelihood of it severely injuring or even killing a human is more probable than other breeds? i dont get the mentality.

Are Pitbulls a separate species from other dogs?

Jabin said:

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Are Pitbulls a separate species from other dogs?

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Show me where I suggested they were? I'm responding specifically to the post I quoted.

Harry Stone said:

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What's the point of owning a pitbull knowing the likelihood of it severely injuring or even killing a human is more probable than other breeds? i dont get the mentality.

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Did you know they were called Nanny dogs 200 years ago?

tehmackdaddy said:

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This thread is akin to an anti-gun rights thread.

People with zero experience raising animals calling for the abolishment of animals they are afraid of because they have no practical experience in the subject matter and have only anecdotes as a defense.

I'll replace the terms.

People with zero experience with firearms calling for the abolishment of firearms they are afraid of because they have no practical experience in the subject matter and have only anecdotes as a defense.

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Except when guns kill, people have control over the decision they made. You have no control over a pit and what decision it makes.

tehmackdaddy said:

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This thread is akin to an anti-gun rights thread.

People with zero experience raising animals calling for the abolishment of animals they are afraid of because they have no practical experience in the subject matter and have only anecdotes as a defense.

I'll replace the terms.

People with zero experience with firearms calling for the abolishment of firearms they are afraid of because they have no practical experience in the subject matter and have only anecdotes as a defense.

---

Ok, fair. If your pit kills someone, you should be charged with murder.

A lot of dumbassary in this thread.

My Aussie Mix is far more aggressive than my Chow Doberman mix

All dog attacks are traced back to negligence and abuse by the owner. Sorta like guns......

Plus these weren't pitt bulls. Just dogs that look like them

Our girls are so alike with the longer noses. Mine's a foster fail! She was an owner surrender at the animal shelter after being mauled by other dogs (sadly no info about that situation or the attackers). Fostered her for a whole year before she was medically cleared for adoption, but by then she was basically our dog so we adopted her. Sweetest girl ever.

78669AG said:

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A lot of dumbassary in this thread.

My Aussie Mix is far more aggressive than my Chow Doberman mix

All dog attacks are traced back to negligence and abuse by the owner. Sorta like guns......

Plus these weren't pitt bulls. Just dogs that look like them

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Everything is fine....nothing to see here.

IslanderAg04 said:

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bmks270 said:

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I wouldn't let a toddler play with a loaded gun or a pit bull.

That's the only analogy I'd make between guns and pit bulls.

Let's actually look at the stats:

2015:

Quote:

---

Last year, according to the Washington Post, 13 toddlers age 3 or younger accidentally killed themselves with a gun, 18 injured themselves, 10 injured others, and two killed other people.

---

2015:

Quote:

---

Annual data from 2015 shows that 39% (14) of the fatality victims were children ages 9-years and younger,

Together, pit bulls (28) and rottweilers (4), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 89% of the total recorded deaths in 2015.

---

https://time.com/4311066/toddlers-guns-shoot-parents/



2015 data shows 38 gun deaths age 0-9 excluding homicide.


https://www.kidsdata.org/topic/2005/firearm-deaths-age-cause/table#fmt=3006&loc=1,2&tf=84&ch=733,1404,445,446,1308,532,534,1643&sortColumnId=0&sortType=asc


Ages 0-9 in 2015:
14 deaths from dangerous dog breeds.
38 deaths from fire arms not ruled homicide.

300+ million guns
being generous here 7 million pit bulls and Rottweilers and other dangerous breeds.

Doing the numbers it appears that a child age 0-9 is 15x more likely to be killed by an aggressive dog breed than a firearm (excluding homicides).

---

Can i lock a pitbull in a gun safe?

---

Not for as long as you can lock a gun in a gun safe

Now the conservatives want government to confiscate personal property because people own scary-looking dogs.

Politics are funny

Cynic said:

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Now the conservatives want government to confiscate personal property because people own scary-looking dogs.

Politics are funny

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Absolute shocker that conservatives are on the side of personal responsibility and protecting children. Would be really pathetic if they wanted to ban scary looking inanimate objects.

Cynic said:

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Now the conservatives want government to confiscate personal property because people own scary-looking dogs.

Politics are funny

---

Your first mistake is assuming I am conservative. I am a reactionary and a dissident. I have no issues using government.

Cynic said:

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Now the conservatives want government to confiscate personal property because people own scary-looking dogs.

Politics are funny

---

It is kind of like if your neighbor had a tiger or wolf in their backyard. Raised them from birth. Walked them around the neighborhood. You can argue that should be allowed based on a libertarian viewpoint. But those are not domesticated animals and have ingrained predatory instincts. If the owner ever loses control of the animal because the animal suddenly snaps, they have the ability to kill indiscriminately and are tough to stop.

The closest gun analogy I can think of is if a gun owner had a schizophrenic living under their roof and let them carry weapons unmedicated. Without repercussions.

Oh come on, a pit bull can be violent but it's not a tiger.

I don't care for pit bulls, I agree they are a problem breed.

Frok said:

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Oh come on, a pit bull can be violent but it's not a tiger.

I don't care for pit bulls, I agree they are a problem breed.

---

Point is due to the overall strength, jaw strength and ingrained predatory instincts, pits are a lot closer to a tiger or wolf than they are to a lab.

Can't think of too many other domesticated animals that could easily kill a grown man that is fighting for his life.

I have chimed in the bag on Pit's threads before, after reluctantly adopting one that was knocking on deaths door I really don't think it is the breed that is the issue. When I sought advice from a very seasoned and respected Aggie vet first about whether the Pit I brought in would make it and secondly whether saving it was a mistake he told me, in summation, that Pits were people dogs, they needed to be around people and be in a comfortable, stable environment. Also he said that you have to truly "own" a Pit, so that the Pit knows what is and isn't acceptable.

Well I ended up with that dog and now 8 years she has proven to be the best dog out of many, currently have 6, that I have ever had. By far the lowest maintenance and most wanting to please dog I have ever had. But she is a people dog and does not enjoy being ignored or being alone. Can be very protective of my wife and daughter, and I am absolutely fine with that as in the past I was gone a lot.

Without going into a thesis, one of the things that drives the terrible situations with Pit, and other breeds, is that probably up until 35 or 40 years ago trash citizens didn't live in and around mainstream society. And they sure weren't supported by the government to be able to have disposable income to buy things such as dogs, tattoos, and other stupidity. But now they are all around us and have increased in numbers and with that you get worthless neighbors who neglect an animal such as a Pitbull or large dog and that is going to cause a big problem.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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Frok said:

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Oh come on, a pit bull can be violent but it's not a tiger.

I don't care for pit bulls, I agree they are a problem breed.

---

Point is due to the overall strength, jaw strength and ingrained predatory instincts, pits are a lot closer to a tiger or wolf than they are to a lab.

Can't think of too many other domesticated animals that could easily kill a grown man that is fighting for his life.

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Cows, horses, and donkeys can but that's a pure size difference issue, not a predatory one. It's also usually one where the human made a mistake no one where the animal attack unprovoked. Only perhaps bulls during mating season.

McInnis said:

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Quote:

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I would never, ever own a dog that is a pit or is part pit.

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I used to say that as well. Then four years ago I needed a dog and went to the local shelter and found this big black lab mix that was so skinny his ribs were practically sticking through his skin. I bought him home and he's turned into a great, gentle pet. He loves my grandkids. Then after about a year I got his DNA tested out of curiosity. Came back 50% American Stafforshire and only 37% Labrador. What would you do?

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For me I would never own a dog that I think might harm my children or someone else's children. I have had 2 dogs, an Italian Greyhound that was timid and all he wanted to do was lay down on under a blanket on your lap or run really fast, "a 30 mile per hour couch potato". I currently have a 14 year old Goldendoodle that is basically a stuffed animal that has been phenomenal with my boys and I know both in experience with her and because of her breed she is extremely unlikely to ever harm anyone even if provoked. I got the Goldendoodle because it was a much sturdier breed than my IG, they are the ideal family dog in my opinion as they are highly intelligent and all they want to do is please you so they make training very easy and they are calmer than a lab. Golden's are awesome but they shed like crazy, the Doodle fixes that and adds even more intelligence to an already intelligent breed. Both of mine could have easily been service dogs and even my Indian neighbor that was terrified of dogs (dogs in India are often running loose and rabid) came to love my dog and pet her. I've had friends who have used her to socialize their dogs because she is so calm and well behaved Before I get a dog I do a lot of research and get to know the breed and go to see them at meetups, I take having an animal in my home incredibly seriously and was even more serious when my children were small.

Your dog isn't a pure pit so that's lower risk at least. If that works for you then great. That just would never be my choice.

If you choose to own a dog and put them around your grandchildren without knowing what they are that's fine, different people make different choices in life. I just am extremely protective of my kids and put their safety well above any desire to help out a dog in need. It sucks that many people lack responsibility and mistreat dogs and I think it is great that there are folks that have situations where they can care for them. It's a wonderful and loving thing in that right situation. It isn't me though and I will never put a dog's welfare above my families safety, not even for a moment and I don't care how cute they are.

Nanomachines son said:

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C@LAg said:

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ban pitbulls?

everywhere?

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Kill the entire breed and end all of them forever yes.

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This.

First part of every article, "Always been the sweetest dog before it shook that baby to death yesterday."

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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She def has the look of a hardened killer.

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"Faceripper" Kazansky is feared throughout the neighborhood

Buzzy said:

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

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She def has the look of a hardened killer.

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"Faceripper" Kazansky is feared throughout the neighborhood

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Gunny456 said:

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The Malinois is a one family dog but is incredibly loyal to that family and is very disciplined on command obeying.
Lots of LOE K-9 trainers and military trainers, IE. Lackland AFB would highly disagree with you.
Malinois don't turn on their handlers.

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My Dad actually oversaw the dog training facility at Lackland in the early 80s. They researched every breed imaginable and no dog came close to the Malinois for a police dog. They are insanely athletic and insanely disciplined. Great at bomb sniffing too. They will be perfectly docile until given the command to attack but once that command is given they will not stop until the right command is given (it used to be the word "OUT" btw) or they are shot. That's it.

Not a great family pet though because they aren't necessarily good with small children and don't like chaos as a regular environment. Their ability to do athletic things defies gravity though.

This thread is going nowhere. I move to let Rocky the Dog decide what to do with the pits, and then we'll have a final resolution.

bmks270 said:

---

I wouldn't let a toddler play with a loaded gun or a pit bull.

That's the only analogy I'd make between guns and pit bulls.

Let's actually look at the stats:

2015:

Quote:

---

Last year, according to the Washington Post, 13 toddlers age 3 or younger accidentally killed themselves with a gun, 18 injured themselves, 10 injured others, and two killed other people.

---

2015:

Quote:

---

Annual data from 2015 shows that 39% (14) of the fatality victims were children ages 9-years and younger,

Together, pit bulls (28) and rottweilers (4), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 89% of the total recorded deaths in 2015.

---

https://time.com/4311066/toddlers-guns-shoot-parents/



2015 data shows 38 gun deaths age 0-9 excluding homicide.


https://www.kidsdata.org/topic/2005/firearm-deaths-age-cause/table#fmt=3006&loc=1,2&tf=84&ch=733,1404,445,446,1308,532,534,1643&sortColumnId=0&sortType=asc


Ages 0-9 in 2015:
14 deaths from dangerous dog breeds.
38 deaths from fire arms not ruled homicide.

300+ million guns
being generous here 7 million pit bulls and Rottweilers and other dangerous breeds.

Doing the numbers it appears that a child age 0-9 is 15x more likely to be killed by an aggressive dog breed than a firearm (excluding homicides).

---

Do you write CRT papers in your spare time? If there are 14 deaths from dogs and 38 deaths from firearms, it means death from firearm is 2.7 times more likely than death from an aggressive dog breed

How the HELL do you get 15x more likely to killed by an aggressive dog from the stats in your post?