nortex97 said:That's how I've felt about the Panamera for a long time too.aggiebrad94 said:Quote:
"For majority of SUV owners, a minivan would be a better fit, but pride won't allow it."
They're prideful. That doesn't mean they're stupid.
As soon as I am inside a minivan, I love it. I just won't ever own one because I would have to look at the outside, too.
aTm2004 said:nortex97 said:That's how I've felt about the Panamera for a long time too.aggiebrad94 said:Quote:
"For majority of SUV owners, a minivan would be a better fit, but pride won't allow it."
They're prideful. That doesn't mean they're stupid.
As soon as I am inside a minivan, I love it. I just won't ever own one because I would have to look at the outside, too.
The same could be said about a slump buster.
LOL, Richard Hammond back many years ago of course on Top Gear (back when it was still pretty funny) had a great one on the Panamera about how great it was to drive until he saw a reflection of it while driving past some glass building in it. Always struck me as true.LMCane said:aTm2004 said:nortex97 said:That's how I've felt about the Panamera for a long time too.aggiebrad94 said:Quote:
"For majority of SUV owners, a minivan would be a better fit, but pride won't allow it."
They're prideful. That doesn't mean they're stupid.
As soon as I am inside a minivan, I love it. I just won't ever own one because I would have to look at the outside, too.
The same could be said about a slump buster.
You didn't like a Panamera?!!
I love it and am thinking of getting a 2016 version- they are going for about $38,000 on cargurus
this one is only 33K!! I can't understand why someone would buy a $40,000 KIA or Honda when you can have this
IntriguedLMCane said:
You didn't like a Panamera?!!
I love it and am thinking of getting a 2016 version- they are going for about $38,000 on cargurus
this one is only 33K!! I can't understand why someone would buy a $40,000 KIA or Honda when you can have this
That's exactly what they are doing.Tom Doniphon said:
I believe the manufacturers are pushing for more leases with these expensive MSRP vehicles... with the vast majority of those going to their captive finance companies.
one MEEN Ag said:
Missed this discussion a few pages back, but a couple thoughts on the minivan versus SUV debate. Its already been repeated ad nauseum about how little SUVs get utilized to their full extent.
If you were to do a time study from even the most modest 1930s farming community truck, it still would show its most use as getting maw and paw into town, getting the family around, and then farm supplies when needed.
Me going to home depot and seriously loading it down every few months is not too far off from this historic usage rate.
And if people want to buy an SUV solely for the ride height and comfort and style...who cares? Why is there always this contingent of people pushing for everyone to be in the tiniest most cramped cars?
Also, for the family that has 4+ kids and is holding onto the SUV for dear life, just go straight to a full sized van like a sprinter or transit. Way better anyway and those are cool now.
MouthBQ98 said:
Vehicles have, for most people, become a display of social class or category and indicate purchasing/borrowing power to peers. Vehicle choice is not so much pragmatic but rather for self rewarding indulgence and as a display to peers, though few really look at that objectively.
They are relatively set to sell and trade and are commoditized. They also are easy to superficially restyle or add new technology to in order to attract the consumer into a constant upgrade habit.
It's stunning to see how many people purchase a rapidly depreciating major capital item so blithely, but that is our culture. Some people arguably are buying certain vehicles as part of a business expense for certain functions but for most personal purchases it is self indulgent or social signaling.
I was going to respond with something similar. I'm a car guy. I've loved cars since I was a toddler. I'm still pretty frugal but I admit to spending thousands and thousands of dollars over the years for cars and car parts that I didn't "need". For that reason I don't judge. If you love to fish and can afford a $70K tricked out bass boat than go for it. If you can afford a Bronco Raptor and never take it off pavement, that's your business. The real issue with Americans and debt is that most people can't really comfortably afford the toys they buy. But it's their business. Besides I buy my toys used so I benefit when they unload these toys after taking the brunt of initial depreciation.mm98 said:MouthBQ98 said:
Vehicles have, for most people, become a display of social class or category and indicate purchasing/borrowing power to peers. Vehicle choice is not so much pragmatic but rather for self rewarding indulgence and as a display to peers, though few really look at that objectively.
They are relatively set to sell and trade and are commoditized. They also are easy to superficially restyle or add new technology to in order to attract the consumer into a constant upgrade habit.
It's stunning to see how many people purchase a rapidly depreciating major capital item so blithely, but that is our culture. Some people arguably are buying certain vehicles as part of a business expense for certain functions but for most personal purchases it is self indulgent or social signaling.
Agree with all of this. But to be fair I know a lot of people that spend thousands, if not tens of thousands, a year on golf, country clubs, fishing/hunting, etc...
If someone has a true passion for cars and it is part of their lifestyle or a hobby, I try my best not to judge. That said I would guess 80% of people do not fit this description and are likely overextended on credit or on a path to being permanently upside-down on auto debt.
My last three vehicles have been BMW (428, 435, 228 Gran Coupe)Teslag said:
I've owned BMW's for years. Once they hit the end of warranty they were gone and I took a massive hit on resale.
Thanks for the reminder about football ticket renewalsMouthBQ98 said:
Vehicles have, for most people, become a display of social class or category and indicate purchasing/borrowing power to peers. Vehicle choice is not so much pragmatic but rather for self rewarding indulgence and as a display to peers, though few really look at that objectively.
They are relatively set to sell and trade and are commoditized. They also are easy to superficially restyle or add new technology to in order to attract the consumer into a constant upgrade habit.
It's stunning to see how many people purchase a rapidly depreciating major capital item so blithely, but that is our culture. Some people arguably are buying certain vehicles as part of a business expense for certain functions but for most personal purchases it is self indulgent or social signaling.
Average auto loan rates (January):
— CarDealershipGuy (@GuyDealership) February 1, 2023
New cars: 8.41%
Used cars: 12.88% (!!)
Both at decade-highs.
nortex97 said:
Auto loan rates will jump up again this week (fed hiking again).Average auto loan rates (January):
— CarDealershipGuy (@GuyDealership) February 1, 2023
New cars: 8.41%
Used cars: 12.88% (!!)
Both at decade-highs.
I dunno which one is right, but both are terrible.
LMCane said:My last three vehicles have been BMW (428, 435, 228 Gran Coupe)Teslag said:
I've owned BMW's for years. Once they hit the end of warranty they were gone and I took a massive hit on resale.
I just sold the 2020 Gran Coupe and made $3800 over what I owed.
literally this was 6 weeks ago.
My son bought his first car (used 2018 4Runner) and financed it with a 3 year loan to pay it off faster. He pays $800/month with less than a year to go.Tom Doniphon said:
A car payment is nothing more that a derivative of length of term, amount financed, and interest rate... without knowing those variables, any payment can look incredibly high- or low - and ultimately mean nothing.
