schmellba99 said:

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Highway6 said:

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Mull this over. Most loans made on boats are either 15 or 20 years. These aren't yachts, just recreational boats from $40,000 to $200,000. The buyer will be upside down on that loan for years.

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A boat is, almost without exception, a toy. Somethign that isn't considered a necessity for day to day life. Completely different animal IMO, because you buy a boat strictly to go enjoy an activity knowing that it is 100% splurge spending from the moment you decide to even look at buying.

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For me that's the argument for paying cash. I pay cash for gently used toys like boats and sports cars where the interest rate to borrow is high but try to find the .9% financing deal on new car daily drivers. I figure if I can't pay cash for the toy I shouldn't buy the toy.

Recently bought a boat from a guy that had it financed for for 15 years. Crazy what he would have paid for that boat if he had paid the loan out. Of course most people aren't keeping a boat for 15yrs so they are basically renting it. In his case he had it for two years. Took it out probably 3 or 4 times. Each trip cost him about $3000 if you average his down payment and total of his monthly payment over two years. .

WHOOP!'91 said:

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Jock 07 said:

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Teslag said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

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Great purchase. Another issue I see is when many morons buy a Surbaban/Tahoe/Expedition etc instead of a minivan which is better for all aspects instead of towing. And men buy these for their wives purely out of insecurity because "they don't want to be seen driving a minivan". Tons of wasted dollars there for personal insecurity.

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There is a substantial size difference between a minivan and a full size sub. Being 6'8" with a wife nearly 6 ft, twin 1 year old boys in car seats and a quickly growing 6 year old boy a minivan doesn't work, trust me, I tried it out.
But if makes you feel better going around judging folks for what they do and don't drive you do you I guess.

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I assume Buzz is aware of twin boys although it's probably too soon to offer just yet.

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Ha, that would certainly be awesome.

Jock 07 said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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Jock 07 said:

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Teslag said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

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Great purchase. Another issue I see is when many morons buy a Surbaban/Tahoe/Expedition etc instead of a minivan which is better for all aspects instead of towing. And men buy these for their wives purely out of insecurity because "they don't want to be seen driving a minivan". Tons of wasted dollars there for personal insecurity.

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There is a substantial size difference between a minivan and a full size sub. Being 6'8" with a wife nearly 6 ft, twin 1 year old boys in car seats and a quickly growing 6 year old boy a minivan doesn't work, trust me, I tried it out.
But if makes you feel better going around judging folks for what they do and don't drive you do you I guess.

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I assume Buzz is aware of twin boys although it's probably too soon to offer just yet.

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Ha, that would certainly be awesome.

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Can't the older one play LB?

I've never had a car payment. Ever.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Burdizzo said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Allowing 7 year terms spurred the price expansion.

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A seven-year-old car today would be a 2016 model with roughly 100k miles on it depending on a lot of factors. In 1980, a 1973 model with 100k miles had one two wheels headed for the scrapyard. I think seven year financing is ridiculous too, but cars are built a lot better these days than they used to be.

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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More than you might think.

CDUB98 said:

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Jock 07 said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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Jock 07 said:

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Teslag said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

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Great purchase. Another issue I see is when many morons buy a Surbaban/Tahoe/Expedition etc instead of a minivan which is better for all aspects instead of towing. And men buy these for their wives purely out of insecurity because "they don't want to be seen driving a minivan". Tons of wasted dollars there for personal insecurity.

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There is a substantial size difference between a minivan and a full size sub. Being 6'8" with a wife nearly 6 ft, twin 1 year old boys in car seats and a quickly growing 6 year old boy a minivan doesn't work, trust me, I tried it out.
But if makes you feel better going around judging folks for what they do and don't drive you do you I guess.

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I assume Buzz is aware of twin boys although it's probably too soon to offer just yet.

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Ha, that would certainly be awesome.

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Can't the older one play LB?

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Funny you should mention, that's a battle I'm going to have to have with my wife. She's not keen on letting them play football.

Not always. I bought a Mowdy in Jan of 2018 off the Boat Show floor. I sold it in preparation of moving to CO in Sept of 2020. I sold the boat for ~$1500 less than I paid for it new. The used boat market was on fire at the time and to get a new Mowdy built when I sold it, would have been a 7 month wait list.

Aggies1322 said:

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Pookers said:

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What the hell are people buying here? Don't Civics run in the Mid 20s usually?

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People will roll their negative equity from prior vehicles into their new notes. How that is possible, I have no clue.

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Dealers will also roll in all sorts of maintenance contracts into the note. At least that was the case when I last bought a new car several years ago. Car is paid off and I'm still getting "pre-paid" oil changes for the next several years.

A car dealership documents their sales tactic to convince car buyers to accept extremely high car loans pic.twitter.com/qxQnc3C3T5

— Dare Obasanjo (@Carnage4Life) August 28, 2022

Are these people on crack why is your car payment that high pic.twitter.com/GWCpMdcILa

— Anos Voldigoad (@JustinTarnation) August 17, 2022

How much is your car payment? pic.twitter.com/Q7ApKg5Vdv

— The Financial Wig Snatcher (@BKFUniversity2) September 18, 2022

Hoyt Ag said:

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I've never had a car payment. Ever.

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(*)

This needs an asterisk.

Poor people purchase liabilities. Rich people purchase assets. Rinse and repeat....

CanyonAg77 said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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Rapier108 said:

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People don't need to buy a $80K pickup just because their neighbor or coworker did.

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I remember when you could buy a decent house for this amount. I'm getting old.

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My first house? $15,000 in 1980.

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And an interest rate that was probably in the teens too.

2013 F150 XLT 175k, no problems, no dents or scratches

Everyone calls it a POS

But you know what, those people are struggling to get by every month

I am waiting for them to go back down to 2020 level pricing

Might not ever happen though

Bobaloo said:

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Poor people purchase liabilities. Rich people purchase assets. Rinse and repeat....

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Rich people do purchase liabilities as well, but they have plenty left over to purchase assets.

Americans cannot handle $1,000 car payments.

Fed blunders + the exorbitant borrowing & spending of Biden, McConnell, and Tom Cotton…give rise to the Repo Man.

See the numbers in a new Cortes #ChalkTalk pic.twitter.com/hoW0JIQNY3

— Steve Cortes (@CortesSteve) January 30, 2023

There is a definite bubble out there and something not mentioned in this video is banks are pulling back on making loans that absorb negative values on prior cars. Essentially someone is upside down on their 2 year old car and want to trade it in for another car and have the bank just add the money to the note. They aren't playing anymore because defaults are rising and that isn't going to get better with recessionary pressure and rising interest rates. The folks who live on the edge are going to get hammered.

The question is how that plays out for the responsible folks looking for opportunities. I think there will be some real opportunities for lightly used vehicles in the next couple of years as a lot of those cars get reposessed or just turned in. The issue might be how stable supply chains can remain and there will also be some cars that are at risk. For instance any European made car is bound to get very expensive because of energy prices over there and that's going to cause some havoc. European made in the US or Mexico/Canada will be fine.

I've got a more mixed view on cars than some here as I don't play to either extreme. Four drivers and four cars now (one kid in HS and another in college). Got a 2015 F150 Lariat and a 2013 Nissan Altima fully paid off. Have a 2013 F150 my college son has that I cosigned for a 2 year note for him even though we had the cash to pay it off (he put up half) so he could build credit that we are halfway through. Barring something unforseen that's his vehicle and I'm done once he graduates for him. Don't really consider that a loan as I could pay it off tomorrow and might at any time. The rib has a 2020 Hyundai Pallisade that's the family driver for road trips and keeps her happy and she makes good money herself, we took out a 1.9% 5 year note on it with a good down payment. Will pay it off in the next couple of years and plan to keep it for around 9 total as well. It's good for everyone for her to have a nice vehicle in great mechanical shape that all of us can travel comfortably in.

Side note, It's an outstanding vehicle and anyone that has an old perception on Hyundai or Kia just hasn't looked at them recently. We looked at Mercedes and Lexus and she had had 2 Acuras prior (owned each for 9 years) and the Hyundai blew them away for a good deal less. 2 years in and some ski trips and it's still like new, great vehicle.

The next car I will rotate out will be the Altima in a couple of years. When he goes off to school he wants a truck as he is a mountain biker and he's been saving since forever, plan to do a "loan" similar to my older son to build his credit. Ideally would like a Tacoma but those things keep insane value so it may be tough to swing it. I'll keep watching the market on them and hoping for a dip in the next 18 months to take advantage of but we will see.

I'll keep driving my F150 until the wheels fall off I think though. Love that truck and it does everything I need. I really only drive about 10k miles a year on it now as well and it's long since paid off so the incentive of going out and buying a replacement at $70-80k just isn't there. If I did replace it I would probably buy a used one or maybe even a Classic just for fun since I don't really put the miles on anymore. Saw a '70 F100 with "Three on the Tree" that looked like a blast the other day, good mechanical shape with everything working and clean but not showroom which fits me fine. First vehicle I ever drove was my Gradad's '53 Chevy Pickup with "Three on the Tree" and I always thought it was cool as hell, love looking under the hood and seeing a lot of simplicity and room. Nice thing about a truck like that is if you take care of it it should maintain value.

As for those saying these threads always turn into guys bragging about making money and driving older paid off cars, how is that a bad thing? I personally love thinking about being smart with your money and buying what you need as a "humble brag" is a hell of a lot better than folks caught up in material wealth. I hope if younger folks come on threads like this they think about that. Few things can make your life as miserable than debt and especially debt on something that you don't really need in terms of a car that costs twice what would fulfill your actual needs.

Quote:

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The average buyer pays no attention to the actual price. All of the commercials focus on monthly payment. Not on interest rate, not on total cost.

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About 20 years ago I was shopping around for a new truck. Found one I liked and asked the salesman what the price was (no sticker in window). He said that he would be right back and went inside. He came out and told me what the monthly payments would be. I told him I planned to finance through my own bank and I needed a price. He again went inside for a few mins then came out and told me a new slightly lower monthly payment. At that point I walked.

Almost same thing happened to me about ten years later. The salesman would not give me a price, only a monthly payment. Again I walked.

I am guessing that there have always been a lot of people that only care about the monthly payments and some dealerships target them.

AggieVictor10 said:

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Why can't people just buy old junkers and just be happy with that?

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Easier said than done. Prior to my current truck, I had a 1992 F250 diesel. I put about 350k miles on it over 24 years. Great truck with a great engine, but toward the end I was spending and average of a couple hundred every month just to keep it running, and that was if I could find parts. The local parts stores quit carrying parts, so I was becoming a regular down at pick n pull.

Quote:

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And an interest rate that was probably in the teens too.

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I don't think it was more than 7%. Must have bought in 1979 or early 1980.

I think a lot of people see the car industry as a bubble.

However, I'm under the thought the gov is going to do everything possible to keep the bubble from popping.

It needs to though. Prices are absolutely wild.

Hoyt Ag said:

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Not always. I bought a Mowdy in Jan of 2018 off the Boat Show floor. I sold it in preparation of moving to CO in Sept of 2020. I sold the boat for ~$1500 less than I paid for it new. The used boat market was on fire at the time and to get a new Mowdy built when I sold it, would have been a 7 month wait list.

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True. The last 3 years, boats new and used, have brought a premium. If you sold during that time, your timing was great.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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We did until a couple weeks ago when my Ford went full Ford. I was hoping to go another 1.5 years, because 1) our youngest would be in kindergarten, and 2) my company gives me stock each year, and I normally sell the long term every year and send to my FA to be invested, but wasn't going to do it this year. With what I have and what I'd have available when I had planned would allow a cash purchase. But it wasn't meant to be. I sold what I had and financed a little bit so I didn't have to touch my nest egg on the front side of a recession. Did get a really good rate though. I'll most likely use next years sale to pay it off.

aggie93 said:

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I think there will be some real opportunities for lightly used vehicles in the next couple of years as a lot of those cars get reposessed or just turned in.

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This is what I was really trying to hold out for before buying, but unfortunately life didn't allow for it. I think this is the smartest play. I see the prices on 10-20k mile vehicles plummeting here in the not too distant future.

Also, high on the palisade/telluride. Planned on getting one of those for the wife til we got the BOGO w/ the twins.

Engine10 said:

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2015 model @ 100k miles - Paid off gang rise up

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That was me -a 2015 paid off w/ just over 100k miles...then the hurricane took it

Here. Finance for 5 yrs, pay them off in 3

We've been too busy keepin up with the Jones.


Learned a long time ago that a simple life is alright for me.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Burdizzo said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Allowing 7 year terms spurred the price expansion.

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A seven-year-old car today would be a 2016 model with roughly 100k miles on it depending on a lot of factors. In 1980, a 1973 model with 100k miles had one two wheels headed for the scrapyard. I think seven year financing is ridiculous too, but cars are built a lot better these days than they used to be.

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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Who doesn't ever drive a car that is fully paid off, at least for a few years, before buying something new?

TChaney said:

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A car dealership documents their sales tactic to convince car buyers to accept extremely high car loans pic.twitter.com/qxQnc3C3T5

— Dare Obasanjo (@Carnage4Life) August 28, 2022

Are these people on crack why is your car payment that high pic.twitter.com/GWCpMdcILa

— Anos Voldigoad (@JustinTarnation) August 17, 2022

How much is your car payment? pic.twitter.com/Q7ApKg5Vdv

— The Financial Wig Snatcher (@BKFUniversity2) September 18, 2022

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CDUB98 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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Here.

Mine and my wife's.

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Here, mine, my wife's, and all three of my daughters.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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It depends on the person's interests. Buying a car to impress others will always be foolish. Buying one because you love cars, enjoy driving them, or take a lot of enjoyment from them is different.

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If you can afford it, sure.

If someone has a high net worth, good income, and no debts, sure, buy a toy and enjoy yourself.

If you're living paycheck to paycheck, a C8 vette is economic suicide.

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Exactly. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but there's a reason I drive an Accord and my best friend has an AMG GTC as his fun car. Dude probably makes 3x as much as my wife and I do combined, and is single with no kids. I joke that we live vicariously through each other, because we are both very lucky in our own way, yet desire what the other has (not the single and no kids part).

Bubblez said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Burdizzo said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Allowing 7 year terms spurred the price expansion.

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A seven-year-old car today would be a 2016 model with roughly 100k miles on it depending on a lot of factors. In 1980, a 1973 model with 100k miles had one two wheels headed for the scrapyard. I think seven year financing is ridiculous too, but cars are built a lot better these days than they used to be.

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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Who doesn't ever drive a car that is fully paid off, at least for a few years, before buying something new?

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I don't have the time or patience to deal with a car out of warranty.

I do also have a garage queen car that is fun and has been paid off for a long time, but I never get the chance to drive it. I literally put more miles on my bicycle last year than that car. If it weren't a rare car, I'd probably sell it, but it's holding value very well. Could still get very close, if not sticker value for it today, and it is 11 years old.

Ok...so, are ya gonna let us know what it is?

Manhattan said:

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If you pay the tax and get 0/72, it is an excellent financial decision...

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Depends on how much the vehicle costs relative to how much you make. Even at at no interest, a car payment that takes half your paycheck is a terrible financial decision.

LMCane said:

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how is this possibly sustainable in an economy where the median household income is around $60,000?!

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Don't worry. The WEF is here to save us with their Great Reset plan. We'll "own nothing and be happy".