fka ftc said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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InfantryAg said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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InfantryAg said:

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fka ftc said:

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If you carry out justice on someone in the act of committing a felony or even appearing to commit a felony, then you have ABSOLUTE, COMPLETE immunity from any prosecution. Including any "felony in possession of a firearm" nonsense.

We need way more vigilante justice and community provided law enforcement. Good shoot. I would even be fine with him reloading and ensuring the sentence was completed by the offender.

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sounds like somalia

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Damn, good honest people stand up to violent criminals that the liberals keep letting back out onto the streets there? Might have to add Somalia as a bucket list destination. Sounds like a badass place.

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I'm all for citizens stopping criminals. But there are laws that were passed by legislators representing the citizens. Use of deadly force is pretty specific, but here many want to forgo any sense of rule of law, because the outcome is one they agree with.

Where do you draw the line. Your kid cut me off in traffic, so I get to shoot him?

Vigilantism can go wrong, real fast. The judicial system failing doesn't mean we should disregard all laws.

If a cop was the shooter, most of this board would be calling for him to be jailed. And that would be appropriate.

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Hell no, a cop should have done the same thing. He was still threatening people. I do not fear your slippery slope argument. Shooting people for cutting you off in traffic lol. You could have always done that, I don't think we'll see a ramp up.

Cop would have been right to shoot him at any time during that robbery. But prob would have dropped him as soon as gun was brandished.

It's a good shoot. Only thing questionable was the final coupe shots after guy was down. They may try to fry him for that.

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Would make for a good case for jury nullification. We need more of that in this country when it comes to these cases. Yep he did what you said he did prosecutor, we heard you judge on your instructions, and we are exercising our express right to acquit the accused. Not guilty and if you try and charge him with another crime we will say not guilty on that as well. Goodnight and good luck.

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So you're ok with Kate Steinle's killer getting off through jury nullification?

I'm not necessarily against jury nullification, but it also can be an injustice.

I am not following regarding Kate Seinle. What was done in that case?

Brittmoore Car Club said:

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InfantryAg said:

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I'm all for citizens stopping criminals. But there are laws that were passed by legislators representing the citizens. Use of deadly force is pretty specific, but here many want to forgo any sense of rule of law, because the outcome is one they agree with.

Where do you draw the line. Your kid cut me off in traffic, so I get to shoot him?

Vigilantism can go wrong, real fast. The judicial system failing doesn't mean we should disregard all laws.

If a cop was the shooter, most of this board would be calling for him to be jailed. And that would be appropriate.

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Hell no, a cop should have done the same thing. He was still threatening people. I do not fear your slippery slope argument. Shooting people for cutting you off in traffic lol. You could have always done that, I don't think we'll see a ramp up.

Cop would have been right to shoot him at any time during that robbery. But prob would have dropped him as soon as gun was brandished.

It's a good shoot. Only thing questionable was the final coupe shots after guy was down. They may try to fry him for that.

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That is what I'm talking about. When the shooter had the robbers gun, and the robber was face down, that is not a legal shot by the legal standards; Unless the shooter can articulate that the robber was still a potential threat. I don't have a problem if the jury no-bills him. Unless he is a felon or a bad guy, in which case I don't have a problem if the true-bill him.

I am not against vigilantism, so long as is doesn't violate the law enough to become a murder. Shooting an armed suspect who is a threat, not problem. Beating the crap out of someone who broke into your car, no problem. Handing out a death sentence because someone feels wronged, is the slippery slope.

fka ftc said:

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I am not following regarding Kate Seinle. What was done in that case?

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Illegal alien "dropped" his stolen gun, it went off and killed her. Jury wouldn't convict because he was an "immigrant."

Jury nullification is great for good people, but leftists will abuse it. I also knew a cop who was shot in the face by a criminal. Jury nullified that because they didn't want to see "another black man" go to prison.


Overall, what I'm saying is you have to think of the second and third order effects.

I personally have no problem with this dude putting that last bullet in the guys head. But the potential for this being abused is huge.

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So you're ok with Kate Steinle's killer getting off through jury nullification?

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That's not what happened. Jury was convinced the shooting was accidental.

Nullification would be if they thought he was guilty of murder, then let him go, anyway.

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Jury wouldn't convict because he was an "immigrant."

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Not what happened.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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So you're ok with Kate Steinle's killer getting off through jury nullification?

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That's not what happened. Jury was convinced the shooting was accidental.

Nullification would be if they thought he was guilty of murder, then let him go, anyway.

EDIT:

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Jury wouldn't convict because he was an "immigrant."

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Not what happened.

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I don't believe that. Even if accidental, that would still be manslaughter.

That san fran jury straight up nullified the conviction in light of clear evidence.

from the wiki..
Garca Zrate was formally charged with first-degree murder and possession of illegal narcotics on July 6. Garca Zrate admitted in a KGO-TV interview that he committed the shooting but said he found the gun wrapped in a T-shirt under a bench after taking sleeping pills he found from a trash can. He first claimed that he was aiming at sea lions, then that the gun had fired while he was picking up the wrapped package, and that Steinle's shooting was accidental.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-27][27][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-USA_TODAY_20150707-21][21][/url] During a pretrial hearing, a judge disallowed the interview to be used as evidence.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-Ho18-28][28][/url] Garca Zrate pleaded not guilty to the charges, and was held on $5-million bail.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-29][29][/url] Garca Zrate's attorney, Matt Gonzalez, stated in court that the shooting was likely accidental.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-30][30][/url]

On July 28, prosecutors filed an additional charge against Garca Zrate: being a felon in possession of a firearm.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-31][31][/url] On September 4, San Francisco Superior Court Judge Brendan Conroy stated that there was enough evidence to try Garca Zrate. Initially charged with first-degree murder, Garca Zrate was eventually tried for second-degree murder. If found guilty of the charges of second-degree murder, being a felon in possession of a firearm, and an enhancement of using a firearm, Garca Zrate could have faced life in prison without the possibility of parole. The jury also had the option of deciding if he was guilty of involuntary manslaughter (where the death occurs without intent but "through the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant").[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-32][32][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-Lyanne-33][33][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kate_Steinle#cite_note-34][34][/url]

InfantryAg said:

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fka ftc said:

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I am not following regarding Kate Seinle. What was done in that case?

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Illegal alien "dropped" his stolen gun, it went off and killed her. Jury wouldn't convict because he was an "immigrant."

Jury nullification is great for good people, but leftists will abuse it. I also knew a cop who was shot in the face by a criminal. Jury nullified that because they didn't want to see "another black man" go to prison.

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From what I read, it seemed to be hung up on it being an accident or not, That's not technically jury nullification. Neither is second example. That more of the umpire making a 2nd BS call to overcome the first.

I went slightly into the rabbit hole after watching the Prof Duane video on talking to police and looked into his current endeavors. I am referring to the jury nullification he discusses. The jury using their position to provide justice when the law is either wrong or wrongly applied.

For Kate Steinle, it seems to be a situation of woke jury combined with inept prosecution sprinkled with bad judge.

I went to HS with Matt Gonzalez the attorney that defended that guy. Still baffles me how he ended up as he did. He was always a ham for the spotlight and was a total coconut, so I don't understand where all the far left activism came from.

I could not believe that guy got off and it really saddened me when I saw Matt was representing him.

Why is this even up for debate. Dude was absolutely justified.

FromTV news - Taqueria was broken into last night and money stolen from cash register and the three gaming machines.

fka ftc said:

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From what I read, it seemed to be hung up on it being an accident or not, That's not technically jury nullification. Neither is second example. That more of the umpire making a 2nd BS call to overcome the first.

I am referring to the jury nullification he discusses. The jury using their position to provide justice when the law is either wrong or wrongly applied.

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I don't really disagree with this. But we could discuss the nuances in an entire new thread.

But from a practical standpoint, one juries justice, doesn't reflect societies best interest or what is legally or morally right. A jury in west Texas would give a different verdict than a Houston jury.

Mother of dead son interviewed crying claiming he was short of funds coming out of prison and had four man month old baby and she had a problem with the final four bullets.

Justice and his fellow patrons had a problem with the armed robbery. Take it up with the mirror.

agz win said:

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Mother of dead son interviewed crying claiming he was short of funds coming out of prison and had four man month old baby and she had a problem with the final four bullets.

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Well, Mom of the Year, Junior was deader than dead by then anyway

That's what she claimed - he was dead and coerced it into a victim role.

No one can prove he was dead yet or not.

If you don't raise a son that threatens other people's lives out of his own shortcomings, then he won't need to be killed in defense of those lives.

This whole "I was trapped by my own bad choices" victimhood doesn't hold any water. Even the poorest in this country have a choice.

agz win said:

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Mother of dead son interviewed crying claiming he was short of funds coming out of prison and had four man month old baby and she had a problem with the final four bullets.

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Talk about denial.

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/houston-taqueria-shooting-mother-of-robber-killed-by-customer-in-self-defense-spekas-out

So the mother says he's not a monster in spite of being involved in the death of a business owner, then after being released from prison, assaulting his common-law wife, and now holding up the customers at the taqueria?

He sure sounds like a monster to me.

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Thursday morning was the last time he called me. He said mom, son to mother, I'm trying to be the best person I can be," Goodman said.

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His best was pretty crappy

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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Thursday morning was the last time he called me. He said mom, son to mother, I'm trying to be the best person I can be," Goodman said.

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His best was pretty crappy

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Yeah.

According to the mother in the interview, the shooting of the business owner was an accident!

Also, she wants the shooter to go to prison for shooting her criminal son.

RGV AG said:

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I went to HS with Matt Gonzalez the attorney that defended that guy. Still baffles me how he ended up as he did. He was always a ham for the spotlight and was a total coconut, so I don't understand where all the far left activism came from.

I could not believe that guy got off and it really saddened me when I saw Matt was representing him.

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Probably wants to prove he is not a coconut by showing how wokehe is

For those interested in the legalities of this case over arguments about jury nullification, Branca has a legal analysis posted at Legal Insurrection: https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/01/houston-taqueria-shooting-legally-justified-killing-or-simply-an-execution/

Summary:
first 4 shots - clearly justifiable
second 4 shots, where robber is down but still moving, and has dropped his 'gun' - ambiguous, but probably very difficult for prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt
last shot - not justifiable

So, a lot will depend on what the prosecution wants to present to the grand jury.

And some conjecture that if the medical examiner decides that the robber was already dead before shot #9 was fired, the shooter could potentially be prosecuted for Abuse of a Corpse.

Last shot justified because after; the gun went click.

That coup de grace is going to present him some trouble, but I can't see a jury convicting in Texas. Even in Harris County.

just heard on local radio that DC police taking over a case of a 13 year old shot to death last night after breaking into cars.

the grandfather was played on the radio news as claiming it was awful that someone could be shot for "looking" at cars..

LMCane said:

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just heard on local radio that DC police taking over a case of a 13 year old shot to death last night after breaking into cars.

the grandfather was played on the radio news as claiming it was awful that someone could be shot for "looking" at cars..

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Best option here is to shoot the grandpa too. I would have no issue with that.

I guess on the prison floor you would have to describe in more detail why you are in on Abuse of a Corpse. Could make you sound like you have some real deviancy issues.

Smeghead4761 said:

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For those interested in the legalities of this case over arguments about jury nullification, Branca has a legal analysis posted at Legal Insurrection: https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/01/houston-taqueria-shooting-legally-justified-killing-or-simply-an-execution/

Summary:
first 4 shots - clearly justifiable
second 4 shots, where robber is down but still moving, and has dropped his 'gun' - ambiguous, but probably very difficult for prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt
last shot - not justifiable

So, a lot will depend on what the prosecution wants to present to the grand jury.

And some conjecture that if the medical examiner decides that the robber was already dead before shot #9 was fired, the shooter could potentially be prosecuted for Abuse of a Corpse.

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Thanks for posting. I wish I could articulate arguments half as well as he does.

Of course, now we'll have people claiming Branca is an anti-gun pro-crime pretend attorney.

eric76 said:

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So the mother says he's not a monster in spite of being involved in the death of a business owner, then after being released from prison, assaulting his common-law wife, and now holding up the customers at the taqueria?

He sure sounds like a monster to me.

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Poor guy. It was probably a self defense domestic assault, too, like Chris Beard.

torrid said:

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agz win said:

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Mother of dead son interviewed crying claiming he was short of funds coming out of prison and had four man month old baby and she had a problem with the final four bullets.

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Talk about denial.

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/houston-taqueria-shooting-mother-of-robber-killed-by-customer-in-self-defense-spekas-out

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So, multiple felonies, fathering illegitimate children, etc - sounds like the shooter did society a solid.

We are now hearing from the actual expert and voice of authority in Houston.

Strong accusation there… that the shooter shot the perp once more while leaving.

YokelRidesAgain said:

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Rockdoc said:

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If you shoot someone in self defense and don't hang around or make yourself available, the cops are gonna come after you.

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Of course they are.

That doesn't make you criminally responsible, and nor can it be used against you.

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I don't know Texas law enough to say whether it can or can't be used against you, but let's say it can't. The DA can still make the "ride" a lot tougher even if you beat the "rap."

Yea but i dont give a **** about the store being robbed. I just want to shoot them before they can shoot me. I'm calling the cops right after though, after making sure that the coast is clear (the robber has no other fools for backup).

torrid said:

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agz win said:

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Mother of dead son interviewed crying claiming he was short of funds coming out of prison and had four man month old baby and she had a problem with the final four bullets.

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Talk about denial.

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/houston-taqueria-shooting-mother-of-robber-killed-by-customer-in-self-defense-spekas-out

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She sees $$. That's what all of this is about.