CDUB98 said:

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agent-maroon said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Nah.

Bo Jackson is arguable the best...until his freak injury.

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As long as you include those who were juicing. His "freak" hip injury was due to avascular necrosis of the femoral head, a common complication from chronic steroid abuse.

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Has he admitted to his use or are you just stating from your medical background?

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I thought it was common knowledge but it might have been from discussion from med school. At least the profs framed it that way. It can be caused by an injury, but in Bo's case it was in reverse order with the AN being discovered at the time of the injury and not vice-versa.

Why would the best male athlete of all time play a women's/kids sport?

dmart90 said:

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The distain y'all show for soccer, the most popular sport in the world, is hilarious.

I don't know that Messi is the greatest male athlete ever; but he is certainly one of the best!

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And he has been nominated for the best (over) acting Oscar in a sporting competition.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Why would the best male athlete of all time play a women's/kids sport?

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Either trolling or doesn't know squat about futebol.

agent-maroon said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Nah.

Bo Jackson is arguable the best...until his freak injury.

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As long as you include those who were juicing. His "freak" hip injury was due to avascular necrosis of the femoral head, a common complication from chronic steroid abuse.

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Maybe, but he always looked natural to me. Juicers are usually obvious in the upper body...See McGuire, Canseco, Bonds, Sosa etc. No denying his legs were super jacked, but upper body looks natural.

I'd argue that, if we're judging purely on how successful they are in their own sport, Yokozuna Hakuho shouldn't be left out of the discussion for best male athlete of all time. The man's record sounds more like something you'd associate with the undertaker and pro wrestling. There can't be another like him, period, a lot of his records are not beatable.

Ag_of_08 said:

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I'd argue that, if we're judging purely on how successful they are in their own sport, Yokozuna Hakuho shouldn't be left out of the discussion for best male athlete of all time. The man's record sounds more like something you'd associate with the undertaker and pro wrestling. There can't be another like him, period, a lot of his records are not beatable.

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Without a doubt the best morbidly obese athlete of all time.

The Fall Guy said:

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dmart90 said:

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The distain y'all show for soccer, the most popular sport in the world, is hilarious.

I don't know that Messi is the greatest male athlete ever; but he is certainly one of the best!

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The ones dissing soccer couldn't run half a mile without keeling over. Armchair athletes

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I'll admit that I don't run sub 18min 3-mile anymore, but your assertion is far from true.

Among other activities, I played soccer, ref'ed it, and enjoyed it. I respect that incredibly high in cardio and have incredible foot-ball skills.

My poo-poo'ing is based on fanatics improperly elevating it.

A top cardio-athlete can be rendered useless by a heavy weight. Cross-fitters can be rendered powerless by a pool. Swimmers can be rendered powerless by a game of backyard catch.

Part of being the best is being deep AND wide. It's the same logic as backs track and field's overall title. It's hard to make the case you're a whole package contender when you don't even demonstrate proficiency with your highest precision appendages.

agent-maroon said:

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CDUB98 said:

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agent-maroon said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Nah.

Bo Jackson is arguable the best...until his freak injury.

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As long as you include those who were juicing. His "freak" hip injury was due to avascular necrosis of the femoral head, a common complication from chronic steroid abuse.

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Has he admitted to his use or are you just stating from your medical background?

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I thought it was common knowledge but it might have been from discussion when from med school. At least the profs framed it that way. It can be caused by an injury, but in Bo's case it was in reverse order with the AN being discovered at the time of the injury and not vice-versa.

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Is this type of bone breakdown also associated with therapeutic prescribed doses of testosterone or are you talking about heavy amounts/diff substances? Seems like more men are getting on TRT to feel younger and wondering if we are going to start seeing an increase in hipless dudes in the coming years/decades.

I haven't read the article but that's just recency bias and looking for clicks.

I don't say that to take away from Messi who is a badass and probably the greatest soccer player we've ever seen.

Not sure that would qualify him as the best athlete of all time simply because there are people who have played at the top most levels of more than one sport. This seems like an obvious criteria to rule Messi out that is not remotely arguable or controversial.

Golf is not an athletic event. It's a hobby. That's like calling a billiards player an athlete.

While we are at it, driving fast and turning left over and over doesn't make you an athlete.

This is all predicated on the belief that soccer is a sport.

I don't think anyone can actually make a case for best athlete of "all time". Their are too many variables and lot's of personal bias.

We're just supposed to ignore lumberjack sports?

Funky Winkerbean said:

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We're just supposed to ignore lumberjack sports?

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[Cornhole has entered the chat]

Street Fighter said:

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I don't think anyone can actually make a case for best athlete of "all time". Their are too many variables and lot's of personal bias.

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As someone else mentioned earlier, you have to have used your hand/hand-eye-coordination to even be in the discussion, which rules soccer players out. Also, playing multiple sports is almost a pre-requisite, unless you are talking about the absolute greatest in the major sports. It's a difficult debate to be had, but soccer players aren't even in consideration.

I don't think Messi is the greatest pure athlete of all time. I give that to Bo Jackson. But Messi dominated his sport more than Bo did his two sports. On that, Messi is on the same level as Jordan and Gretzky.

And to pretend soccer is not a sport is asinine. Messi has earned glowing praise from the likes of Kobe, Tom Brady, Mike Tyson, Lebron, etc. for his ability. They know more about athleticism than this entire board put together.

CDUB98 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Why would the best male athlete of all time play a women's/kids sport?

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Either trolling or doesn't know squat about futebol.

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Oh, I played the game. As a kid.

All the acting and corruption are fit for a daytime soap opera.

And I will absolutely agree that Messi is a tremendous athlete.

Quote:

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The ones dissing soccer couldn't run half a mile without keeling over. Armchair athletes

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I played defensive back in HS. We had to run full speed on every single play and jog back to the huddle. We also ran miles in the offseason and my HS made you run track as well. I would stack that up against jogging around for a game.

Quote:

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While we are at it, driving fast and turning left over and over doesn't make you an athlete.

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I agree that it doesn't make you an athlete, but there are some great athletes that race cars for a living. I'll also say that short track racing is very physically demanding. Anyone who says otherwise has never done it.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Why would the best male athlete of all time play a women's/kids sport?

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Either trolling or doesn't know squat about futebol.

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Oh, I played the game. As a kid.

All the acting and corruption are fit for a daytime soap opera.

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Have you ever watched Messi? He's famous for not diving.

aTmAg said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Why would the best male athlete of all time play a women's/kids sport?

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Either trolling or doesn't know squat about futebol.

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Oh, I played the game. As a kid.

All the acting and corruption are fit for a daytime soap opera.

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Have you ever watched Messi? He's famous for not diving.

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I was mostly joking, and I am certainly not including Messi in any criticisms of soccer. Soccer at a high level takes tremendous skill, as does playing any sport at a high level.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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aTmAg said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Why would the best male athlete of all time play a women's/kids sport?

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Either trolling or doesn't know squat about futebol.

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Oh, I played the game. As a kid.

All the acting and corruption are fit for a daytime soap opera.

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Have you ever watched Messi? He's famous for not diving.

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I was mostly joking, and I am certainly not including Messi in any criticisms of soccer. Soccer at a high level takes tremendous skill, as does playing any sport at a high level.

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If you haven't seen him, I'd go watch a few highlight videos. He alone turned me from a guy who mocked soccer to a fan. However, when he retires, I'll probably will stop watching. He's a modern Jordan.

Read through a bit of the article and the author is an obvious Messi fanboy and either is writing tongue in cheek or too big of a fan boy to know it should be tongue in cheek.

He says that Messi has now obviously passed Ronaldo which is not the case at all.

Messi is a great soccer player, perhaps the best ever but not a certainty. To be the greatest ever for certain I would need to see 3 world cup trophies for him. I mean at very least 2 right?
Messi has won 4 Champions league titles. Ronaldo has 5. Brady won 7 super bowls to the next closest 4. I'd expect to see the hands down best ever to have 8 champions league trophies at least.

It's just a fanboy article. He is no Jordan or Brady.

Lionel Messi's Last Dance Is More of a Stroll

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The Argentine superstar is one of soccer's most dangerous scorers. But he spends most of his time on the pitch moving slowly in a small space.

When Lionel Messi takes the field for Argentina's World Cup quarterfinal against the Netherlands on Friday, it will mark the latest moment in what is likely his final run at the trophy.
Except it's actually been more of a walk.

Messi remains one of soccer's most dangerous scorers because, at 35 years old, he can still do things on the ball that most players can scarcely imagine. But that amounts only to a couple of minutes per game. It's how he spends the rest of his time on the pitch that makes it look like he's strolling through a museum.

A Wall Street Journal analysis of player-tracking data from the World Cup finds that there isn't any player left in this tournament who walks the walk quite like Messi. The Argentine forward has spent more than half of his time on the pitch here at speeds between 0 kilometers per hour and 7 kilometers per hour (4.3 miles per houra brisk walking pace.

Of the 33.1 kilometers he has covered on the pitch during the first four games, 57.7% of them have been trudging at under 7 kph.

Messi's penchant for leisurely ambling isn't common. Among the 24 most attacking-minded players left in this World Cup, the average rate of time at that slow pace is just 37.4%. Messi's percentage is far and away the highest. Even a famously chiseled guy from Portugal doesn't loaf as much. Cristiano Ronaldo has only operated at below seven kph 43% of the timeat least when he's not on the bench.

None of this is new. Nearly two decades into his professional career, Messi's stroll is one of the familiar gaits in soccer. The 5-foot-7 genius, wearing shorts that reach down to his knees, paces the pitch with his shoulders stooped and his arms at his sides. He looks like someone just took his lunch money.
But once he spots a sequence he likes, Messi transforms. He perks up, revs the engine, and starts to motor into the spaces where he can do maximum damage. In four games at this World Cup, he has three goals and one assist.

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This is why it's hard to rate him with guys like Jordan or Bo Jackson. Messi is, without a doubt, the most skilled soccer player of his generation, but how does his skill compare with other sports that require more sheer athelticism? There is not right or wrong answer, but I can see why folks would hesitate at naming a soccer player like Messi the greatest athlete, just because he dominates his sport (and for the record, he doesn't dominate it in quite the same way that, say, Jordan dominated basketball).

43rd Street Posse said:

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Tex117 said:

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Easily one of the best of all time.

THE best, no one can know that. Up there, absolutely.

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if he has ever flopped once with zero contact, this completely rules him out of the discussion altogether imo. The greatest athletes of all time don't play like that.

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What an arbitrary line to draw...

What a strange argument to be having.

He is one of the greats of all time. Period. THE best, no one can quantify that.

/End of Discussion.

It's soccer. WGAS?

CDUB98 said:

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Nah.

Bo Jackson is arguable the best...until his freak injury.

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it's not even close. everyone wanted to be like bo jackson. other superstar athletes wanted to be like bo. no one was bigger than BO. people forget but no one knows athletics like bo jackson. he was bigger than michael jordan.

Street Fighter said:

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Other than a triathelete, every sport you mentioned is highly specialized.

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Would that be specialized as in specializing in endurance vs fast twitch, agility, hand eye coordination, balance.

Triathletes get butthurt but the sport is endurance.

45-70Ag said:

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Tomorrow headline: Brittany griner is the best female athlete of all time.

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can't wait to see the miniseries depicting her entire life for an adulational public!

WBBQ74 said:

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It's soccer. WGAS?

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I'm not even much of a soccer fan but that's an ignorant take. Billions of people watched the World Cup yesterday at some point…. Six of the top eight posts ever on instagram are of Messi and Ronaldo. Messi's post yesterday is going to soon be the top leader at over 58 million likes. He has 400 million followers. Ronaldo has over 500 million. It is the most famous sport in the world.

Stupid article. And in my lifetime I would give that title to Bo Jackson. But Messi is probably the best soccer player

I am certainly not going to argue about it on this board with all of the trolls, but I do think soccer requires the most well rounded athletes compared to other major team sports, especially at the highest levels.

45-70Ag said:

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Tomorrow headline: Brittany griner is the best female athlete of all time.

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ESPN would vote for Bruce JEnner

So, were just glossing over cyber-sports, too!?!?

Hasn't won a single SEC championship. Doesn't get my vote.

twk said:

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Lionel Messi's Last Dance Is More of a Stroll

Quote:

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The Argentine superstar is one of soccer's most dangerous scorers. But he spends most of his time on the pitch moving slowly in a small space.

When Lionel Messi takes the field for Argentina's World Cup quarterfinal against the Netherlands on Friday, it will mark the latest moment in what is likely his final run at the trophy.
Except it's actually been more of a walk.

Messi remains one of soccer's most dangerous scorers because, at 35 years old, he can still do things on the ball that most players can scarcely imagine. But that amounts only to a couple of minutes per game. It's how he spends the rest of his time on the pitch that makes it look like he's strolling through a museum.

A Wall Street Journal analysis of player-tracking data from the World Cup finds that there isn't any player left in this tournament who walks the walk quite like Messi. The Argentine forward has spent more than half of his time on the pitch here at speeds between 0 kilometers per hour and 7 kilometers per hour (4.3 miles per houra brisk walking pace.

Of the 33.1 kilometers he has covered on the pitch during the first four games, 57.7% of them have been trudging at under 7 kph.

Messi's penchant for leisurely ambling isn't common. Among the 24 most attacking-minded players left in this World Cup, the average rate of time at that slow pace is just 37.4%. Messi's percentage is far and away the highest. Even a famously chiseled guy from Portugal doesn't loaf as much. Cristiano Ronaldo has only operated at below seven kph 43% of the timeat least when he's not on the bench.

None of this is new. Nearly two decades into his professional career, Messi's stroll is one of the familiar gaits in soccer. The 5-foot-7 genius, wearing shorts that reach down to his knees, paces the pitch with his shoulders stooped and his arms at his sides. He looks like someone just took his lunch money.
But once he spots a sequence he likes, Messi transforms. He perks up, revs the engine, and starts to motor into the spaces where he can do maximum damage. In four games at this World Cup, he has three goals and one assist.

---

This is why it's hard to rate him with guys like Jordan or Bo Jackson. Messi is, without a doubt, the most skilled soccer player of his generation, but how does his skill compare with other sports that require more sheer athelticism? There is not right or wrong answer, but I can see why folks would hesitate at naming a soccer player like Messi the greatest athlete, just because he dominates his sport (and for the record, he doesn't dominate it in quite the same way that, say, Jordan dominated basketball).

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What sport requires more sheer athleticism? I think soccer requires the most. It is the one sport that you have to have everything to be able to play.

Not sure I agree that Jordan dominated his sport more. Messi has won seven world player of the year awards. Jordan won five league MVPs. It is hard to quantify leading scorers in soccer because they play several different competitions in a year where the NBA is just one. But Messi holds the all time scoring record in La Liga and has the most goals scored internationally by a South American. He has led all of Europe in goals scored in a season six times. Jordan has led the league ten times, but that's a league of just 30 teams. That comparison can go on and on.