Suarez, Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Neymar...Barca have fallen off more recently as their decades of outrageous spending and government bailouts have finally caught up, but it's not like he was surrounded by BJ Cartwright and Will Perdue.

We need to add Lance Armstrong to the mix, absolutely dominated his competitors for 7 years!

twk said:

---

Quote:

---

So for the record, this crap pisses me off. This is exactly the reason I made fun of soccer for decades. It wasn't until I saw Messi highlights that I became a fan. I have wondered if Messi's domination (and the fact that every young player today grew up idolizing him) would change this. And it seems to me that maybe it has. I have noticed that there was a LOT less diving this WC than the last one (though I didn't watch every game). It seems to me that that young generation has finally come of age. Hopefully that continues.

---

VAR is the reason diving is, finally, subsiding. The countries where they don't have it still have a problem, but doing it with VAR watching is dumb and can have some adverse consequences.

---

The aspect I was talking about was like the over the top acting. Where a guy gets fouled slightly but he acts like his head was taken clean off. That seems to have been less this time around than prior.

It's not like the other clubs were chumps either. Real was formidable as well, winning as many Champions League as Barcelona did during Messi's tenure.

At first I thought this was a post about Lionel Richie.

You can't be the greatest athlete of all time if 98% can't even recognize who you are based on a photo, as that implies either you're not that good, or you play a sport that most don't care about.

And I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan.

True. I think he's the greatest soccer player of all time, I just wouldn't call him the most dominant athlete of all time.

agdoc2001 said:

---

Suarez, Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Neymar...Barca have fallen off more recently as their decades of outrageous spending and government bailouts have finally caught up, but it's not like he was surrounded by BJ Cartwright and Will Perdue.

---

Besides Suarez, all of those guys were gone in 2018 when they won La Liga and almost (and probably should have) won Champions League. If Dembele makes that easy shot that Messi teed up for him, they almost certainly go on to win the whole thing.

dustin999 said:

---

At first I thought this was a post about Lionel Richie.

You can't be the greatest athlete of all time if 98% can't even recognize who you are based on a photo, as that implies either you're not that good, or you play a sport that most don't care about.

And I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan.

---

If you can't recognize who Messi is, then that says more about you than him:

https://www.ranker.com/list/most-famous-athletes-right-now/celebrity-lists

(Messi #1)


Let me guess, if I showed you a picture of Trump, you wouldn't know who he was either?

aTmAg said:

---

If you can't recognize who Messi is, then that says more about you than him:

---

This is the greatest cricket player of all time. Do you recognize him? If not, what does that say about you?

twk said:

---

Quote:

---

What sport requires more sheer athleticism?

---

Geez, I don't know, maybe one where you have to have some hand/eye coordination, and can't walk around quite so much. Soccer fans can be a real beat down, and I say that as someone who enjoys watching some soccer. I'm not much of an NBA fan, but no one in soccer comes close to being as clutch as Jordan, and that in a sport that requires you to have great endurance and skill. Playing football and baseball at the highest level like Bo did is simply astounding. And, if you care at all about the mental aspect of sports, no position compares to playing QB in the NFL like Brady has for 20 years. Being the best soccer player at the moment doesn't, by default, make you the greatest athlete.

---

All positions and sports require amazing athleticism at the most elite levels. Soccer doesn't allow for as much "clutch" play simply due to the game itself but I'd say scoring multiple goals in a final is pretty freaking clutch. Playing QB is incredibly mind taxing but the ability to adapt and adjust on the fly in soccer is significantly harder in soccer than say QB. A WR would be similar to a soccer player in that respect.

Messi is probably the greatest player to ever play soccer(an incredibly difficult sport to play) and possibly one of the best athletes ever. These arguments are usually very silly and only show a person's bias instead of their willingness to listen to the other side.

Cricket is no where near as popular world wide as soccer is.

aTmAg said:

---

agdoc2001 said:

---

Suarez, Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Neymar...Barca have fallen off more recently as their decades of outrageous spending and government bailouts have finally caught up, but it's not like he was surrounded by BJ Cartwright and Will Perdue.

---

Besides Suarez, all of those guys were gone in 2018 when they won La Liga and almost (and probably should have) won Champions League. If Dembele makes that easy shot that Messi teed up for him, they almost certainly go on to win the whole thing.

---

Busquets, Pique, Coutinho....

He's great, but he wasn't playing for Bournemouth

akm91 said:

---

Cricket is no where near as popular world wide as soccer is.

---

Obviously. And your point would be?

twk said:

---

Quote:

---

What sport requires more sheer athleticism?

---

Geez, I don't know, maybe one where you have to have some hand/eye coordination, and can't walk around quite so much. Soccer fans can be a real beat down, and I say that as someone who enjoys watching some soccer. I'm not much of an NBA fan, but no one in soccer comes close to being as clutch as Jordan, and that in a sport that requires you to have great endurance and skill. Playing football and baseball at the highest level like Bo did is simply astounding. And, if you care at all about the mental aspect of sports, no position compares to playing QB in the NFL like Brady has for 20 years. Being the best soccer player at the moment doesn't, by default, make you the greatest athlete.

---

Don't get me wrong. I am not arguing Messi is the gretest at all sports ever. Like I said a few posts ago I don't think you can fairly do cross over comparisons of any kind.

But I disagree that soccer does not require great hand eye coordination or that makes a difference. Soccer players show off their coordination with their feet, not by catching a ball. The things they can do with their feet is no less amazing than what great basketball players do with their hands.

As for endurance and skill compared to basketball, no way. Yes basketball requires a high level but not like soccer. There are no timeouts, no in and out substitutions, no commercial breaks, no free throws, none of that. It is for the most part a constant 100 or so minutes with a 15 minute break in the middle of it. There is a reason soccer players rarely play more than 45 or 50 games in a year compared to, including playoffs and pre season, over 100 in basketball. They both require a high level of endurance, but I would still give the edge to soccer mainly because of the in and out subsitution rule.

As for the skill, you have to be more well rounded to play soccer compared to the NBA. Guys make millions in the NBA only because they are tall or can block shots, but are otherwise limited in the game. You usually don't see that a lot in soccer.

Quote:

---

As for endurance and skill compared to basketball, no way. Yes basketball requires a high level but not like soccer. There are no timeouts, no in and out substitutions, no commercial breaks, no free throws, none of that. It is for the most part a constant 100 or so minutes with a 15 minute break in the middle of it. There is a reason soccer players rarely play more than 45 or 50 games in a year compared to, including playoffs and pre season, over 100 in basketball. They both require a high level of endurance, but I would still give the edge to soccer mainly because of the in and out subsitution rule.

---

If you noticed, early in the World Cup, the officials were adding huge amounts of stoppage time, and that was in response to a study that found that the actual playing time in most soccer games was only 45-60 minutes. So, while the clock may not stop, there is a lot of down time, and as the Messi article indicates, players who are not close to the ball at any given moment will often be taking a bit of a breather. I generally prefer soccer to the NBA, but I give those NBA players credit -- that is a very demanding sport.

aTmAg said:

---

dustin999 said:

---

At first I thought this was a post about Lionel Richie.

You can't be the greatest athlete of all time if 98% can't even recognize who you are based on a photo, as that implies either you're not that good, or you play a sport that most don't care about.

And I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan.

---

If you can't recognize who Messi is, then that says more about you than him:

https://www.ranker.com/list/most-famous-athletes-right-now/celebrity-lists

(Messi #1)


Let me guess, if I showed you a picture of Trump, you wouldn't know who he was either?

---

Please note the "I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan" portion of my post.

I'm pretty sure at least 90% of the US wouldn't recognize Messi in street clothes.

Oh and I checked the list, John Cena, professional wrestler? Lol. I guess if they're gonna include soccer they have to include WWE too...

Quote:

---

I'm pretty sure at least 90% of the US wouldn't recognize Messi in street clothes.

---

This. Except maybe 95%.

dustin999 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

dustin999 said:

---

At first I thought this was a post about Lionel Richie.

You can't be the greatest athlete of all time if 98% can't even recognize who you are based on a photo, as that implies either you're not that good, or you play a sport that most don't care about.

And I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan.

---

If you can't recognize who Messi is, then that says more about you than him:

https://www.ranker.com/list/most-famous-athletes-right-now/celebrity-lists

(Messi #1)


Let me guess, if I showed you a picture of Trump, you wouldn't know who he was either?

---

Please note the "I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan" portion of my post.

I'm pretty sure at least 90% of the US wouldn't recognize Messi in street clothes.

---

It's not just Kazakhstan. It's literally every other country in the world and far more than 10% of the US (you just happen to be among those clueless). The pool of people that Messi had to compete with to be #1 was well over 7 billion people. The pool of people that Americans have to compete with is only 330 million.

aTmAg said:

---

dustin999 said:

---

At first I thought this was a post about Lionel Richie.

You can't be the greatest athlete of all time if 98% can't even recognize who you are based on a photo, as that implies either you're not that good, or you play a sport that most don't care about.

And I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan.

---

If you can't recognize who Messi is, then that says more about you than him:

https://www.ranker.com/list/most-famous-athletes-right-now/celebrity-lists

---

That's dumb. People don't have to pay attention to bull**** they don't care about. How would someone just know who Messi is?

If soccer is on TV, I absolutely change the channel. I also have not watched 10 continuous seconds of Sports Center in over 20 years. I don't give a ***** I watch the sports I want to watch, which are few and far between.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

dustin999 said:

---

At first I thought this was a post about Lionel Richie.

You can't be the greatest athlete of all time if 98% can't even recognize who you are based on a photo, as that implies either you're not that good, or you play a sport that most don't care about.

And I don't really care if the sport is popular in some other country like Kazakhstan.

---

If you can't recognize who Messi is, then that says more about you than him:

https://www.ranker.com/list/most-famous-athletes-right-now/celebrity-lists

---

That's dumb. People don't have to pay attention to bull**** they don't care about. How would someone just know who Messi is?

If soccer is on TV, I absolutely change the channel. I also have not watched 10 continuous seconds of Sports Center in over 20 years. I don't give a ***** I watch the sports I want to watch, which are few and far between.

---

Do you watch the news like an adult? Like ever? Or are you too busy watching the Kardashians?

Quote:

---

It's not just Kazakhstan. It's literally every other country in the world and far more than 10% of the US (you just happen to be among those clueless). The pool of people that Messi had to compete with to be #1 was well over 7 billion people. The pool of people that Americans have to compete with is only 330 million.

---

OK?

Most people in the world (and America) wouldn't recognize Jimmy Johnson or Jimmie Johnson. That doesn't diminish the respect they have in their fields of sport or the millions upon millions of dollars they have made.

Lots of contradictory points here, but 2 stand out:

1. Soccer players specialize as well. And on a team of 11 players vs 5, soccer players spend far more of their game uninvolved with the play than basketball players do (ex: forwards waiting at midfield while the ball is near their goal and sweepers chilling while their forwards attack).

2. Footwork + handwork requires coordination of 4 limbs and a ball vs just footwork which is 2 limbs and a ball. Self-hobbling is a really weird thing for soccer to flex about. "We're better because we don't use our hands*". …no… it just makes the sport different. Your opponent is hobbled in the same way, so it's not some noble or asymmetrical bragging point.

twk said:

---

Quote:

---

As for endurance and skill compared to basketball, no way. Yes basketball requires a high level but not like soccer. There are no timeouts, no in and out substitutions, no commercial breaks, no free throws, none of that. It is for the most part a constant 100 or so minutes with a 15 minute break in the middle of it. There is a reason soccer players rarely play more than 45 or 50 games in a year compared to, including playoffs and pre season, over 100 in basketball. They both require a high level of endurance, but I would still give the edge to soccer mainly because of the in and out subsitution rule.

---

If you noticed, early in the World Cup, the officials were adding huge amounts of stoppage time, and that was in response to a study that found that the actual playing time in most soccer games was only 45-60 minutes. So, while the clock may not stop, there is a lot of down time, and as the Messi article indicates, players who are not close to the ball at any given moment will often be taking a bit of a breather. I generally prefer soccer to the NBA, but I give those NBA players credit -- that is a very demanding sport.

---

Yes. And I said 'both require a high level of endurance' No doubt the NBA is a very demanding sport.

I also said that the in and out substitution rule is why I give the edge to soccer. In the NBA you can come out when you are gassed, or when you strain a muscle and need ten minutes to recover, or whatever. While there is certainly a lot of rest time in soccer, there is nowhere to hide on the field when it is your turn to go.

The advantage the NBA rules have is it allows a player who may not be 100% or even 80% a chance to play through his injuries or fatigue where in soccer if you are not 100% you are generally a scratch.

How does a sport being more popular make it's participants better athletes than those in any other sport?

Why is this on the politics board? Can we please keep the Messi fellating to the soccer board?

aTmAg said:

---

Do you watch the news like an adult? Like ever? Or are you too busy watching the Kardashians?

---

Why would I watch the news? It's largely propaganda, as you well know. I am more politically informed than 99.9% of Americans without watching the news.

I watch what is entertaining to me, which is nothing but college football on ESPN, some auto racing, and a few shows.

I don't park my butt on the couch and watch whatever sport ESPN is showing at any given time. I do not keep up with celebrities, movie stars, or sports figures outside of the sports I watch. Haven't been to a movie theater in about 10 years. I work 60+ hours a week, spend a lot of time at church or working in my community, and read a good bit.

Quote:

---

Do you watch the news like an adult? Like ever? Or are you too busy watching the Kardashians?

---

Seriously? TV news? Very few people I know bother with TV news anymore.

And I've heard the name Lionel Messi, but no clue what he looks like (until pics on this thread)

Most Americans don't follow any one sport rabidly, and only follow a few at all. Many, many Americans (maybe a third) don't follow any pro sport at all. And I'll bet 25% of Americans don't particularly care about any sport.

So soccer? it's been the young kid sport of choice in the USA for over 40 years, but that's all it is here. The best athletes are siphoned off to football/baseball/basketball. Heck, more good American athletes end up in tennis than soccer. That's why the Netherlands can beat the US in soccer>

So no, I thinks it's ambitious to think that even 5% of Americans would recognize Messi in street clothes, and probably not that many even in his uniform.

agent-maroon said:

---

How does a sport being more popular make it's participants better athletes than those in any other sport?

---

Do you understand this math?

Being the best one out of 10,000 is more impressive than the best out of 100.

Now expand that to 7,500,000,000 vs 330,000,000.

LOL, that only works if 7,500,000,000 people play soccer.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Do you watch the news like an adult? Like ever? Or are you too busy watching the Kardashians?

---

Why would I watch the news? It's largely propaganda, as you well know. I am more politically informed than 99.9% of Americans without watching the news.

I watch what is entertaining to me, which is nothing but college football on ESPN, some auto racing, and a few shows. I do not keep up with celebrities, movie stars, or sports figures outside of the sports I watch. Haven't been to a movie theater in about 10 years. I work 60+ hours a week, spend a lot of time at church or working in my community, and read a good bit.

---

So you are admitting that you don't pay attention to anything, yet are blaming others for you know knowing anything?

Do you even listen to news on the radio?

AGC said:

---

Why is this on the politics board? Can we please keep the Messi fellating to the soccer board?

---

Because OP was triggered because the headline was best Male athlete instead of the best athlete.

cecil77 said:

---

LOL, that only works if 7,500,000,000 people play soccer.

---

You just confirmed that you are bad at math.

Sorry to break it to you, but 330,000,000 don't play football, basketball, baseball either.

aTmAg said:

---

So you are admitting that you don't pay attention to anything, yet are blaming others for you know knowing anything?

Do you even listen to news on the radio?

---

You seem special. Where are you pulling these ideas from?

Read what I write and don't create your own narrative if you want to discuss something.

"Anything" covers a whole lot more than Euro-trash sports and democrat propaganda. I also don't watch "As the World Turns" or "Yellowstone." I am very informed on the things I am interested in.

BigOil said:

---

AGC said:

---

Why is this on the politics board? Can we please keep the Messi fellating to the soccer board?

---

Because OP was triggered because the headline was best Male athlete instead of the best athlete.

---

Do you think any female athlete is better?

or in any sport that is not related to pole dancing, sandwich making, or birthing?

aTmAg said:

---

agent-maroon said:

---

How does a sport being more popular make it's participants better athletes than those in any other sport?

---

Do you understand this math?

Being the best one out of 10,000 is more impressive than the best out of 100.

Now expand that to 7,500,000,000 vs 330,000,000.

---

Yes, I understand how popularity contests work. How does that make that sport's athletes better than another sport?