neAGle96 said:

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Also found it interesting, during the police video in Indiana of the traffics stop, when the officer asked where are y'all going? BK immediately says "where going to get Thai food".

As BK is responding w the above, his sad tells the officer, were coming from WSU. As dad says we're coming from WSU, BK immediately closes his eyes and looks down.

The officer asks, you're coming from Washington State Unciversort and going where? BK tresponds @we're headed to get Thai food right now"

Father then states were going to Pennsylvania

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Holy grammatical errors, Batman! Clean this up!

Interesting that the Reddit poster stated that the only way BK would have avoided the house is if it was known the occupants were packing heat.

Sort of explains some of the thought processes of a murderer who is going to target 2 girls, on the 3rd floor of a house with people that may have guns. Not because he couldn't get to the initial targets, but that he would have likely been smoked on his attempt to get away. X/E/D all would have been in a likely position to smoke that guy in the scenario the way it played out.

Hell, even the pepper spray on a key chain would have caused a lot of trouble.

Ol Ironside said:

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If he targeted K/M, do we know how he knew they were on the 3rd floor?

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His phone states he was in the vicinity of the house at least 12 times before nov 12. He likely noticed them in the window from the adjacent hill on Queen rd . The 3rd floor rooms, which are in the rear of the house face the hill/ Queens rd. The dad mentioned they rarely had the blinds closed.. so if he was staking the house, he would've known where their rooms were located.

Also from the social media posts, On one from the show Kaylee is dancing w her dog in her bedroom and you can see a balcony behind her. Only the 3rd floor bedrooms have a balcony.

Neighbors security cameras also observe the white elantra drive down king road 3 times immediately before another camera catches his car on Queen rd around 4am on the night of the murders.

From social media and /or visual observations he knew where their rooms were located and he likely knew they were in their rooms that night before entering the residence.

Ol Ironside said:

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If he targeted K/M, do we know how he knew they were on the 3rd floor?

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Well Madison had a large letter M in the window which faced the back area where BK parked his car.

Speculation:
I imagine on the various times he was known to have been nearby (cell phone pings) he saw them come and go a few times. Easy to figure out just watching lights come on or turn off. And I have heard (but not confirmed) that they did not have much in the way of curtains on those upper floor windows. that would make it easy to see them. Pictures from social media could have also made it obvious - they had the only rooms with balconies for example.

Ol Ironside said:

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If he targeted K/M, do we know how he knew they were on the 3rd floor?

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He followed both of them on Instagram where they posted lots of pictures. Not sure about TikTok and all other social media, but he probably learned a lot about these girls before this all went down. There are lot of pics on their IG accounts of the house so he might have learned from those as well. Just a guess. I haven't dug into their accounts/pics much other than what I've seen in the news.

That's been reported? Who he followed on social media? Hadn't seen that.
I'm curious if in any of those 12 times he was close to the house he may have actually gone in - if any of those times they were having a house party with all sorts of people coming and going - and he wandered in, unnoticed.

Big Al 1992 said:

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That's been reported? Who he followed on social media? Hadn't seen that.
I'm curious if in any of those 12 times he was close to the house he may have actually gone in - if any of those times they were having a house party with all sorts of people coming and going - and he wandered in, unnoticed.

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I don't know about the social media part.

But Kaylee's father has stated that he was close enough to the house to ping the Wifi. Not that he connected to it, but Wifi routers keep a log of the Mac address of devices in range of it.

That's pretty close proximity but depending where he was it could have still been outside - like in that parking area behind the house.

I also think he wandered into one of the parties unnoticed. Probably doing a drive by and saw the action.

Big Al 1992 said:

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That's been reported? Who he followed on social media? Hadn't seen that.
I'm curious if in any of those 12 times he was close to the house he may have actually gone in - if any of those times they were having a house party with all sorts of people coming and going - and he wandered in, unnoticed.

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Possibly. I have seen it reported that his phone was close enough to hit the wifi in the house.

And as to the car. It is my speculation that he did intend to sell the car or trade it in while in PA. And that could have been why the police/FBI observed him meticulusly cleaning it inside and out.

I don't think we know if he followed them or not. There were a lot of fake BK accounts created the day he was named as the suspect that traveled them, but I don't think we know about real accounts yet.

Perhaps. If he was intending to sell the car, I wonder why he had it registered in Washington shortly after the murders. If he was going to sell it back East, it seems keeping the PA tags. To me, selling a white Elantra w WA tags back East would be more suspicious than white Elantra for sell w PA tags.

neAGle96 said:

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Perhaps. If he was intending to sell the car, I wonder why he had it registered in Washington shortly after the murders. If he was going to sell it back East, it seems keeping the PA tags. To me, selling a white Elantra w WA tags back East would be more suspicious than white Elantra for sell w PA tags.

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His PA tags were set to expire at the end of November, IIRC. Driving cross country with expired tags might also cause unwanted attention by law enforcement. Trying to sell it in Washington after the murders would have popped on someone's radar but he assumed (falsely) that registering it would not.

That makes sense. Although if he knew he was going to carry out the murders before registering the car, I'm curious why he didn't renew the registration in PA? Especially if he intended to sell it when he returned over the holidays?

PA plates in WA would also stand out, but I'm sure their are cars near WSU w license plates from all over the country.

Your comment about the expiration of the pa plates and with the forthcoming WA tags, make me wonder if he intended to carry out the murders in early December rather mid November.

Kaylee's mom stated Kaylee had already moved out of the king rd house and only returned to campus one last time, just for the weekend, to show Madison her new car. Perhaps Kayee made a post about one last weekend in Moscow and it was observed by BL, which expedited his murder plans.

Quote:

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Kaylee's mom stated Kaylee had already moved out of the king rd house and only returned to campus one last time, just for the weekend, to show Madison her new car. Perhaps Kayee made a post about one last weekend in Moscow and it was observed by BL, which expedited his murder plans.

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Or the opposite? Maybe he knew Kaylee had moved out and if his target was Maddie, then she'd be alone on the third floor? I read that interview with Kaylee's Mom and got the impression it was a last minute decision for her to go back to show off her new car. (Well, new to her.)

I doubt he surrendered the PA plates.

Drive CC with legal plates and reinstall the expired PA plates on a car for sale.

TexasRebel said:

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I doubt he surrendered the PA plates.

Drive CC with legal plates and reinstall the expired PA plates on a car for sale.

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Good point. The attorney, Little, spoke about the license plate reader database which caught an image of the Washington plates while they were in Colorado. The VIN would still be identifiable and linked to the plates, though. Even if he removed the Washington plates, put the expired PA plates back on and then tried to sell or trade in the car.

Where is an Earl Scheib shop when you need them? Paint the damn car a different color.

PA24 said:

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neAGle96 said:

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After watching the 20/20 episode, I agree Kaylee and Madison were the targets.

IMO, Xana ordering and receiving the Jaxk in the Box delivery. ultimately led to her and Etans murders.

It seems likely from DMs statement that when she cracked opened her door she saw the killer walking towards her before he exited through the kitchen and sliding door ,that he was leaving Xanas room. The security camera next door, 50ft from Xanas room hears a loud thud around 417 am.

IMO, the killer targeted Kaylee and or Madison (Kaylees dad said she confided in him about. Stalker in the weeks prior) . He likely entered the second sliding door and was on the third floor, when Xana retrieved the food delievery on the food on first. I'd like to know if the food was consumed.

IMO , he killed K&M and when he went down to the second floor he noticed lights on in either the kitchen where the Jack in the Box bag was discovered, or he saw Xana walking away from the kitchen toward her room. That's when he decided he needed to kill any potential witnesses.

As far as DM, I don't think he saw her. Perhaps the killer turned off the light in the kitchen, or else after Xana placed food bag in the kitchen., she turned off the light just as the killer went down the stairs. If so, he followed Xana into her room killed Ethan (most likely asleep) the. Mentioned he wasn't going to harm Cana (that DM referenced) before killin Xana.

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I agree with this.

The question is why was he stalking the two girls.

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This is pure speculation on my part. But there were reports that BK would try and flirt with bartenders, they would shoot him down, and he would start verbally harassing them and calling them names. There were also reports that BK was a hard core vegan. Kaylee and Madison worked at a restaurant that had a lot of vegan items.

My best guess is that he would frequent the restaurant where Kaylee and Madison worked, he probably tried flirting with them and they most likely shot him down, which led him to become enraged and obsessed with them. Thats when he started stalking them.

Judging from the police body cams of the parties that they responded to, looks very feasible that if he was in the area and saw one going on, it would have been very easy to just wander in, grab a beer, walk around some and then walk out. Especially if he was a couple of months into stalking them and had a good read on their habits.

Raise your hand if you didn't ever walk into a party without an invite.

MsDoubleD81 said:

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I also think he wandered into one of the parties unnoticed. Probably doing a drive by and saw the action.

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I noticed this picture in a news article.

It's taken from in front of the Sigma Xi house on fraternity row. You can clearly see the house behind it and if there were parties going on there I think it would be noticeable with all the lights, cars, etc.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Kaylee's mom stated Kaylee had already moved out of the king rd house and only returned to campus one last time, just for the weekend, to show Madison her new car. Perhaps Kayee made a post about one last weekend in Moscow and it was observed by BL, which expedited his murder plans.

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Or the opposite? Maybe he knew Kaylee had moved out and if his target was Maddie, then she'd be alone on the third floor? I read that interview with Kaylee's Mom and got the impression it was a last minute decision for her to go back to show off her new car. (Well, new to her.)

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This is what I think. He was after Maddie and not necessarily for murder. The house was supposed to be the emptiest it's ever been. Kaylee was gone. Xana and Ethan were at a frat party. The two other roommates lived on the first floor. Maddie's boyfriend was out of town. The knife was for control of the situation, not necessarily murder. That's why so many mistakes were made, like driving his own car. He gets up there and realizes Kaylee is in bed. Kills Kaylee in rage because she's cockblocking (think the dad said she had the worst injuries). Kills Maddie because he has to after killing Kaylee. Runs into Xana and kills her & the boyfriend because witnesses. Never sees the surviving witness because she wasn't supposed to be there in that room.

Quote:

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Never sees the surviving witness because she wasn't supposed to be there in that room.

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That first floor bedroom was being used for storage as seen on an officer's body-cam for a noise call at a party there sometime earlier. It was warm, not cold weather on that call.

There had been a sixth roommate on the lease who had moved out but I don't recall the authorities ever saying when she left.

jopatura said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Kaylee's mom stated Kaylee had already moved out of the king rd house and only returned to campus one last time, just for the weekend, to show Madison her new car. Perhaps Kayee made a post about one last weekend in Moscow and it was observed by BL, which expedited his murder plans.

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Or the opposite? Maybe he knew Kaylee had moved out and if his target was Maddie, then she'd be alone on the third floor? I read that interview with Kaylee's Mom and got the impression it was a last minute decision for her to go back to show off her new car. (Well, new to her.)

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This is what I think. He was after Maddie and not necessarily for murder. The house was supposed to be the emptiest it's ever been. Kaylee was gone. Xana and Ethan were at a frat party. The two other roommates lived on the first floor. Maddie's boyfriend was out of town. The knife was for control of the situation, not necessarily murder. That's why so many mistakes were made, like driving his own car. He gets up there and realizes Kaylee is in bed. Kills Kaylee in rage because she's cockblocking (think the dad said she had the worst injuries). Kills Maddie because he has to after killing Kaylee. Runs into Xana and kills her & the boyfriend because witnesses. Never sees the surviving witness because she wasn't supposed to be there in that room.

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Nothing out there would support any of your post. All indications are that he went there with violence in mind. Also, while they were at a frat party, they don't go til that late in the evening. Been to a lot of frat parties and I can't recall a single one that didn't largely let out any later than 2 am. After that, mostly just frat boys polishing off the last few beers en route to passing out. To go into their home after 4am thinking they were still out partying would be an insane risk. Also, nothing in his past (thus far) suggests he was there for sexual assault.

zgolfz85 said:

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I don't think we know if he followed them or not. There were a lot of fake BK accounts created the day he was named as the suspect that traveled them, but I don't think we know about real accounts yet.

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Could have been fake I guess. It was several weeks ago and was an account that was following hundreds of people and had many followers. Reddit folks said it was his real account FWIW, and he was following M/K but not the others. Who knows though if fake.

jopatura said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Kaylee's mom stated Kaylee had already moved out of the king rd house and only returned to campus one last time, just for the weekend, to show Madison her new car. Perhaps Kayee made a post about one last weekend in Moscow and it was observed by BL, which expedited his murder plans.

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Or the opposite? Maybe he knew Kaylee had moved out and if his target was Maddie, then she'd be alone on the third floor? I read that interview with Kaylee's Mom and got the impression it was a last minute decision for her to go back to show off her new car. (Well, new to her.)

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This is what I think. He was after Maddie and not necessarily for murder. The house was supposed to be the emptiest it's ever been. Kaylee was gone. Xana and Ethan were at a frat party. The two other roommates lived on the first floor. Maddie's boyfriend was out of town. The knife was for control of the situation, not necessarily murder. That's why so many mistakes were made, like driving his own car. He gets up there and realizes Kaylee is in bed. Kills Kaylee in rage because she's cockblocking (think the dad said she had the worst injuries). Kills Maddie because he has to after killing Kaylee. Runs into Xana and kills her & the boyfriend because witnesses. Never sees the surviving witness because she wasn't supposed to be there in that room.

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I think based on BK's alleged online posts before and after the murders, his actions while in the house, the knife etc, he was 100% there to kill someone. He didnt have to kill all 4 people. The murders were pre-meditated.

zgolfz85 said:

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jopatura said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Kaylee's mom stated Kaylee had already moved out of the king rd house and only returned to campus one last time, just for the weekend, to show Madison her new car. Perhaps Kayee made a post about one last weekend in Moscow and it was observed by BL, which expedited his murder plans.

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Or the opposite? Maybe he knew Kaylee had moved out and if his target was Maddie, then she'd be alone on the third floor? I read that interview with Kaylee's Mom and got the impression it was a last minute decision for her to go back to show off her new car. (Well, new to her.)

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This is what I think. He was after Maddie and not necessarily for murder. The house was supposed to be the emptiest it's ever been. Kaylee was gone. Xana and Ethan were at a frat party. The two other roommates lived on the first floor. Maddie's boyfriend was out of town. The knife was for control of the situation, not necessarily murder. That's why so many mistakes were made, like driving his own car. He gets up there and realizes Kaylee is in bed. Kills Kaylee in rage because she's cockblocking (think the dad said she had the worst injuries). Kills Maddie because he has to after killing Kaylee. Runs into Xana and kills her & the boyfriend because witnesses. Never sees the surviving witness because she wasn't supposed to be there in that room.

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Nothing out there would support any of your post. All indications are that he went there with violence in mind. Also, while they were at a frat party, they don't go til that late in the evening. Been to a lot of frat parties and I can't recall a single one that didn't largely let out any later than 2 am. After that, mostly just frat boys polishing off the last few beers en route to passing out. To go into their home after 4am thinking they were still out partying would be an insane risk. Also, nothing in his past (thus far) suggests he was there for sexual assault.

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This. He was there for blood.

Quote:

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Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the homicides of four University of Idaho students, is no longer a student at WSU.

In an email sent to the Daily Evergreen, WSU Pullman Chancellor Elizabeth S. Chilton wrote that she is not at liberty to give out more information about Kohberger's student status due to the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, however, he was an enrolled student but is not one anymore. Chilton did not say when Kohberger was unenrolled and why.

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LINK

Quote:

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Bryan Kohberger's doctoral program at Washington State University maintains access to a "crime lab" database of police bodycam videos as well as live streams from security cameras on and off campus, an insider told Fox News Digital.

The programs are referenced on the school's public website and are used to study policing and the "complex social interactions" between patrol officers and the people they encounter, as well as other government functions.

The source, who works for the university and has direct knowledge of the department, is warning that the research tools, in the wrong hands, could have allowed a suspected killer to view unredacted crime scene images, potential videos of death and even livestreams of surveillance cameras with remote controls that allow the viewer to zoom in on faces. The university told Fox News Digital Friday evening that Kohberger was not part of the program.

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Quote:

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WSU's Complex Social Interaction Lab (CSI Lab) and Division of Governmental Studies and Services (DGSS) are research entities on campus.

The DGSS recently unveiled a report after examining five years of data on Washington State Police stops for evidence of bias. The results were "mixed."

But alarming, according to the source, is the DGSS's access to livestreams of security cameras around Pullman. One example taken from the command center shows multiple screens of live feeds, including one of a person in a car in a restaurant parking lot near Greek Row.

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Quote:

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More than five police departments share bodycam video with the CSI Lab database, according to the university. One of them is the Pullman Police Department, according to the source, who could not confirm the additional agencies.

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Quote:

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Students can apply for access to the CSI Lab online by filling out a brief questionnaire.

The CSI computers are located in the same building and on the same floor as the graduate offices, according to the insider, who pointed the locations out on a map. The bodycam terminals are separated from the department's main conference room by a soundproofed wall and communicate with the internet only through limited pathways.

It's unclear whether Kohberger had attempted this process, but the university vehemently denied he was allowed in the CSI Lab.

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LINK

ETA: WSU website on the Crime Lab HERE

I don't understand all these aspects where the university is having to vehemently deny things. I'd expect a PhD candidate in criminology to have those types of tools at their disposal. They're there for a reason, to be educated and trained to go into LE and specialist work post program. It's not the onus of the university to screen for potential serial killers. I'd hope they'd have measures in place to account for that with background checks, etc., but they have no legal obligation to do so, right? These programs exist to pump out good guys, not bad guys.

zgolfz85 said:

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I don't understand all these aspects where the university is having to vehemently deny things. I'd expect a PhD candidate in criminology to have those types of tools at their disposal. They're there for a reason, to be educated and trained to go into LE and specialist work post program. It's not the onus of the university to screen for potential serial killers. I'd hope they'd have measures in place to account for that with background checks, etc., but they have no legal obligation to do so, right? These programs exist to pump out good guys, not bad guys.

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They want to stave off potential lawsuits by the parents is my guess. Not that I think the school has a duty to the parents of students at another school who are not WSU's responsibility.

CYA

I get that, but could parents realistically sue over this kind of access (which I'd think would be easily arguable as relevant and necessary to graduate in a doctorate level program)? It seems like that would've gone through layers of WSU's (or any other university's) in house counsel before that kind of access would be opened to anyone. I'm guessing the questionnaire and paperwork required for signing once approved for access would surely cover any of these possibilities and put the student in a position where they're signing their life away if they use the systems and information obtained to commit a crime. If that paperwork isn't locked down to cover the university at all costs, I'd be shocked.

Read the process for access to the crime lab on the WSU website I posted earlier.

neAGle96 said:

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IMO, the killer targeted Kaylee and or Madison (Kaylees dad said she confided in him about a Stalker in the weeks prior) .

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I missed this. Where did he say this?

Also, if he followed them on instagram, that's going to create quite a link and just shows how stupid he is, but they probably had their profile set to private and he wanted to see picks. Should have created a burner insta.

no one talks about Ethan? How was he killed he was a big guy I don't see how BK could take him down so easy unless he took him off gurad.

dirty_undies said:

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no one talks about Ethan? How was he killed he was a big guy I don't see how BK could take him down so easy unless he took him off gurad.

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Likely asleep or maybe booze induced pass out. Have not seen the autopsy reports nor the tox reports.