This. My stepdaughter is a freshman, lives in a dorm, and rarely communicates with her roommate or suite mates. They don't have any conflict; they just didn't click as close friends, they have different schedules, different friend groups, and basically coexist with pretty minimal interaction. The friends she doesn't live with are much more in tune with what's going on with her daily life than her roommate is.
University of Idaho - 4 college students murdered
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Last: 8 days ago by Divining Rod
Is it just me but has "not Barnes" not been back on the thread since being called out a few days ago?
Also the constant belittling and harping on a 20yr old girl who is going through what will probably be the most difficult time in her life….is getting really ****ing old. Could we stop already? I read that entire portion as a police officer summarizing most likely multiple long and drawn out interviews, some days later and other immediately after a shocking event…let's not take summary as straight from her mouth or infer her meaning of what she says.
Also the constant belittling and harping on a 20yr old girl who is going through what will probably be the most difficult time in her life….is getting really ****ing old. Could we stop already? I read that entire portion as a police officer summarizing most likely multiple long and drawn out interviews, some days later and other immediately after a shocking event…let's not take summary as straight from her mouth or infer her meaning of what she says.
Big Al 1992 said:
And the police have not clarified that the 911 call was to check on a passed out roommate - which roommate. Didn't make sense that a murder victim would be considered passed out, unless the doors had been locked and they just weren't coming out of the room. Or if DM is the roommate they were talking about - passed out from shock or fainted - so needed to check in her, not knowing the condition of other roommates.
"passed out roommate" was not mentioned in the 911 call. "unconscious individual" was the term used and yes presumably that applied to DM or BF. We don't know which.
You are right it is mostly not confirmed but what supposedly happened was:
- one of the surviving girls woke up and texted roommates
- getting no answer (except maybe from the other survivor) she/they summoned other friends saying they were concerned one of the girls may be "passed out". speculation is that may be partly because they felt like they needed cover for their own substance use that night.
- meanwhile one or both ventured out of their rooms and having discovered the bodies they freaked out
- friends arrived finding one of them passed out. the other was said to be hyperventilating.
- the call was made form one of the two resident girls phones but one of the other friends made the call. that may have been to make sure it was a phone of a resident for location. or because they did not want to be identified for the same reason (possible substance use).
- the call was for a "unconscious individual" meaning the surviving girl who passed out. not the victims in the house because at that point the friends did not know anything about it and had no information from the two survivors who were unconscious or hyperventilating.
- more than one person spoke with dispatcher on the 911 call and neither were the residents - that is confirmed.
So the confirmed parts are:
- the term "unconscious individual" was used perhaps by dispatch- but believed to reference one of the surviving girls first discovered by friends that came to the scene.
- they called 911 from one of the survivors phones
- it was likely not one of the survivors making the 911 call and in fact multiple people spoke to dispatch
Lonestar_Ag09 said:
Is it just me but has "not Barnes" not been back on the thread since being called out a few days ago?
Also the constant belittling and harping on a 20yr old girl who is going through what will probably be the most difficult time in her life….is getting really ****ing old. Could we stop already? I read that entire portion as a police officer summarizing most likely multiple long and drawn out interviews, some days later and other immediately after a shocking event…let's not take summary as straight from her mouth or infer her meaning of what she says.
^agreed
i was trying to put some of that to rest by laying out many possible scenarios that would explain her lack of 911 call. In no way should she be blamed and in fact coroner stated it would not make any difference. They died quickly.
But I appreciate you saying it more directly and succinctly.
As for barnes yeah....disappeared again it seems.
Cite your sources.
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No ***** The absolute immense survivor's guilt. The shock. Even a straight up bad ass twenty something young woman is just going to shrug this off and give some detailed analysis on the snap decisions she was making at 4:00 in the morning? And they were all going to make perfect sense to a bunch of Monday Morning Columbos?Lonestar_Ag09 said:
Also the constant belittling and harping on a 20yr old girl who is going through what will probably be the most difficult time in her life….is getting really ****ing old. Could we stop already? I read that entire portion as a police officer summarizing most likely multiple long and drawn out interviews, some days later and other immediately after a shocking event…let's not take summary as straight from her mouth or infer her meaning of what she says.
Hell, when I asked about different details from my 24 year old vet student daughter, sometimes I would wonder if her head was still screwed on and she wasn't even close to having to come to grips with a situation like this.
Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
to be fair though...and what point (i.e. how many hours) is it no longer "understandable" that a 9-1-1 call was not made earlier?
if an 8-hour delay is defensible/understandable...would 12 hours also have been?
if an 8-hour delay is defensible/understandable...would 12 hours also have been?
TexasRebel said:
Cite your sources.
Only the confirmed stuff is worth citing.
But this says :
Quote:
A 911 call came in at 11:58 a.m. requesting aid for an unconscious person, which was placed on one of the surviving roommate's phones, according to police.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/father-slain-university-idaho-student-sheds-new-light-call-unconscious-person
This says:
Quote:
After the intruder took off, nearly eight hours passed before a call was placed to 911 on one of the surviving roommates' cellphones reporting an unconscious person. Police have not disclosed who placed that call.
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/bryan-kohberger-case-why-didnt-idaho-roommate-call-911-after-encountering-masked-madman
And this confirms other friends had arrived before the 911 call was made:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-college-murders-911-call-roommate-phone/Quote:
There were additional people other than the two surviving roommates inside the house where four University of Idaho students were found stabbed to death at the time the 911 call was made, police revealed Sunday. According to Moscow Police Chief James Fry, the 911 call was made using one of those roommates' phones, but he would not confirm the caller's identity.
This says multiple people spoke with dispatcher:
Quote:
"I think it'll be released when the prosecution believes that we can release that," Fry said of the call, which police have so far said little about, other than that it was placed from a surviving roommate's phone and that multiple people spoke with the dispatcher.
As I said the rest is conjecture.
None of those say multiple people spoke with dispatch and non of which were the roommate.
When you were in college and stayed at bars on Saturday until 2 when did you wake up? If you stayed up till 4, when did you wake up?
The delay to call police doesn't surprise me in the least knowing how late they stay up. It is completely plausible that they woke up sensed an issue, called friends then called police in a reasonable time after waking up.
The delay to call police doesn't surprise me in the least knowing how late they stay up. It is completely plausible that they woke up sensed an issue, called friends then called police in a reasonable time after waking up.
Lonestar_Ag09 said:
When you were in college and stayed at bars on Saturday until 2 when did you wake up? If you stayed up till 4, when did you wake up?
The delay to call police doesn't surprise me in the least knowing how late they stay up. It is completely plausible that they woke up sensed an issue, called friends then called police in a reasonable time after waking up.
Yep if they slept 12 hours then 12 hours is acceptable. It was 8 so 8 is understandable.
If they found them and waited 2 hours then you have some issue. That's not what happened.
I mentioned earlier about the victim families forever being changed but should have mentioned the survivors and their families lives also devastated. No excuse for people/internet sleuths/media/Twitter-Reddit folks/ second guessing their actions. Having been burglarized before, that creepy feeling that someone was in your house going through your stuff, not knowing if they might come back can be paralyzing. Now up that X 1000 that people/friends were killed - in your house - while you were there. The police interviews, the lawyer interviews, the trial, the media attention means you are gonna have to live this nightmare for years. You don't ever reset from this. Absolutely awful all the way around.
Sleeping til noon on a college weekend is the norm for most college students. The chick was probably **** faced and just passed out questioning if she even really saw what she did (if she truly even saw the perp).
Question for Hawg - I've never been clear on the exact requirements for pre-trial 'Discovery'. This case is the perfect example of people saying the authorities are being tight-lipped, saving everything for the trial, don't dare want to put everything they have in the Probable Cause Affidavit, etc.
However, isn't the very definition/purpose of Discovery that the prosecution has to disclose everything it has to the Defense?
Appreciate your insight into a question I've long wondered about.
However, isn't the very definition/purpose of Discovery that the prosecution has to disclose everything it has to the Defense?
Appreciate your insight into a question I've long wondered about.
I also find it interesting the dna evidence on the sheath was compared with the dad's dna and not junior.
Conclusion 99.9% the dna is the offspring of the dad.
The lawmen are closing all gaps.
Conclusion 99.9% the dna is the offspring of the dad.
The lawmen are closing all gaps.
I don't know if it's just me working in a high school setting or what, but kids these days wear stupid stuff. Basically anything to stand out. It's Idaho, in the middle of winter. I don't think someone wearing a mask would raise red flags as a murderer walking through your house.
When people talk black mask, first think that comes to mind is this the typical movie mask with 3 holes cut out. Kids wear balaclavas when it's below 50 here, so I imagine the same in the winter in Idaho.
All this said to say, give her the benefit of the doubt. If I was in a house where people constantly were in and out and someone came in wearing a balaclava, not much thought would go in to it.
When people talk black mask, first think that comes to mind is this the typical movie mask with 3 holes cut out. Kids wear balaclavas when it's below 50 here, so I imagine the same in the winter in Idaho.
All this said to say, give her the benefit of the doubt. If I was in a house where people constantly were in and out and someone came in wearing a balaclava, not much thought would go in to it.
I may be off base here, but right now the evidence is neither in the hands of the prosecution nor the defense.
CashinOut said:
I don't know if it's just me working in a high school setting or what, but kids these days wear stupid stuff. Basically anything to stand out. It's Idaho, in the middle of winter. I don't think someone wearing a mask would raise red flags as a murderer walking through your house.
When people talk black mask, first think that comes to mind is this the typical movie mask with 3 holes cut out. Kids wear balaclavas when it's below 50 here, so I imagine the same in the winter in Idaho.
All this said to say, give her the benefit of the doubt. If I was in a house where people constantly were in and out and someone came in wearing a balaclava, not much thought would go in to it.
These days…
Ghost91 said:
Question for Hawg - I've never been clear on the exact requirements for pre-trial 'Discovery'. This case is the perfect example of people saying the authorities are being tight-lipped, saving everything for the trial, don't dare want to put everything they have in the Probable Cause Affidavit, etc.
However, isn't the very definition/purpose of Discovery that the prosecution has to disclose everything it has to the Defense?
Appreciate your insight into a question I've long wondered about.
I'm no lawyer but all that has been publicly released it the PCA. The judge issued a gag order so no other information has been released to the public but that doesn't mean the prosecution hasn't turned over their evidence to the defense. In fact the BK's attorney told the judge she wanted to review the evidence before her client would offer a plea of guilty or not guilty.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
I thought they said mask covered mouth and nose, like a covid mask.
So a random guy walking through your house at 4:18am dressed in all black wearing a mask, wouldn't raise any red flags to you after hearing your roommate cry/whimper, and hearing another roommate say "there's someone here"?? Come on! It obviously freaked out DM since she said she was in a "frozen shock phase", and she locked herself in her room after seeing BK.CashinOut said:
I don't know if it's just me working in a high school setting or what, but kids these days wear stupid stuff. Basically anything to stand out. It's Idaho, in the middle of winter. I don't think someone wearing a mask would raise red flags as a murderer walking through your house.
When people talk black mask, first think that comes to mind is this the typical movie mask with 3 holes cut out. Kids wear balaclavas when it's below 50 here, so I imagine the same in the winter in Idaho.
All this said to say, give her the benefit of the doubt. If I was in a house where people constantly were in and out and someone came in wearing a balaclava, not much thought would go in to it.
Yeah, my money is on a freak-out that was essentially like going into shock from fear. Paralyzed to do anything. He may still be there.
Masks that accomplish said objective without being COVID masks.
Black neck gaiter or black ski with large opening in center that eyebrows would be visible. They said he was in black. Possible, but can't see it being a COVID mask.
Black neck gaiter or black ski with large opening in center that eyebrows would be visible. They said he was in black. Possible, but can't see it being a COVID mask.
not that he physically can't testify- but in the real world of adversarial prosecutors-Corn Pop said:LMCane said:
he can't take the stand like Rittenhouse could
so how are they going to cause reasonable doubt?
claim it's not his Elantra being in the neighborhood 12 times before the murders and 4 times that night? that his phone is just around their neighborhood a dozen times for no reason?
how will they give a reason to the jury for his car and his phone if Koberger doesn't testify?
He has no alibi else we would have heard of it by now, or the police would not have focused in on him if he had a nice excuse as to where he was at 0400
there is actually a lot more evidence in this case than in many murder cases.
Not disagreeing, but why can't he testify?
imagine the questions that the DA would be able to cross-examine BK with if he took the stand!
"why was your vehicle there 12 times before the murders"
"is that you who wrote the REDDIT posts about searching for criminals?"
"did you throw out your garbage in other people's bins"
"where were you on the night of the murders?"
"why was your phone off for 2 hours during the murders and then turned back on right afterwards"?
"did you ever buy a KA BAR knife?"
"were you in Idaho Falls the night of the murders?"
"what is your alibi for the night of the murders?"
Idaho Falls?
ea1060 said:So a random guy walking through your house at 4:18am dressed in all black wearing a mask, wouldn't raise any red flags to you after hearing your roommate cry/whimper, and hearing another roommate say "there's someone here"?? Come on! It obviously freaked out DM since she said she was in a "frozen shock phase", and she locked herself in her room after seeing BK.CashinOut said:
I don't know if it's just me working in a high school setting or what, but kids these days wear stupid stuff. Basically anything to stand out. It's Idaho, in the middle of winter. I don't think someone wearing a mask would raise red flags as a murderer walking through your house.
When people talk black mask, first think that comes to mind is this the typical movie mask with 3 holes cut out. Kids wear balaclavas when it's below 50 here, so I imagine the same in the winter in Idaho.
All this said to say, give her the benefit of the doubt. If I was in a house where people constantly were in and out and someone came in wearing a balaclava, not much thought would go in to it.
Agreed it doesn't make any sense but everyone needs to stop debating the issue of why the roommate didn't call 911 until almost Noon. I think we can all agree it is odd and doesn't make sense if we were the ones in that situation.
I am sure it will be addressed at length in the trial if it comes to that.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
A defense can build an explanation for BK's activity without having him take the stand. If the defense is a legit "you simply have the wrong guy", his testifying is just not helpful. It's gonna require others to help explain and alibi some of this stiff.
If the DA asked any of those questions in that manner, he should lose his license. On cross, never ever ask an open-ended question. Only ask leading questions to which you already know the answer and can prove.Quote:
imagine the questions that the DA would be able to cross-examine BK with if he took the stand!
"why was your vehicle there 12 times before the murders"
"is that you who wrote the REDDIT posts about searching for criminals?"
"did you throw out your garbage in other people's bins"
"where were you on the night of the murders?"
"why was your phone off for 2 hours during the murders and then turned back on right afterwards"?
"did you ever buy a KA BAR knife?"
"were you in Idaho Falls the night of the murders?"
"what is your alibi for the night of the murders?"
An example of the horrible mistake of asking open ended questions is the DA's request in the OJ trial to have OJ put on the gloves. Why in the world would the DA have done that without first knowing if the gloves would fit? That's Trial 101.
Best explanation I have seen.CashinOut said:
I don't know if it's just me working in a high school setting or what, but kids these days wear stupid stuff. Basically anything to stand out. It's Idaho, in the middle of winter. I don't think someone wearing a mask would raise red flags as a murderer walking through your house.
When people talk black mask, first think that comes to mind is this the typical movie mask with 3 holes cut out. Kids wear balaclavas when it's below 50 here, so I imagine the same in the winter in Idaho.
All this said to say, give her the benefit of the doubt. If I was in a house where people constantly were in and out and someone came in wearing a balaclava, not much thought would go in to it.
This was not a typical home, a lot happening with (6) young college kids living there.
Jabin said:If the DA asked any of those questions in that manner, he should lose his license. On cross, never ever ask an open-ended question. Only ask leading questions to which you already know the answer and can prove.Quote:
imagine the questions that the DA would be able to cross-examine BK with if he took the stand!
"why was your vehicle there 12 times before the murders"
"is that you who wrote the REDDIT posts about searching for criminals?"
"did you throw out your garbage in other people's bins"
"where were you on the night of the murders?"
"why was your phone off for 2 hours during the murders and then turned back on right afterwards"?
"did you ever buy a KA BAR knife?"
"were you in Idaho Falls the night of the murders?"
"what is your alibi for the night of the murders?"
An example of the horrible mistake of asking open ended questions is the DA's request in the OJ trial to have OJ put on the gloves. Why in the world would the DA have done that without first knowing if the gloves would fit? That's Trial 101.
You don't lose your law license for asking open-ended questions.
Didn't say "would"; said "should".I am always wrong said:Jabin said:If the DA asked any of those questions in that manner, he should lose his license. On cross, never ever ask an open-ended question. Only ask leading questions to which you already know the answer and can prove.Quote:
imagine the questions that the DA would be able to cross-examine BK with if he took the stand!
"why was your vehicle there 12 times before the murders"
"is that you who wrote the REDDIT posts about searching for criminals?"
"did you throw out your garbage in other people's bins"
"where were you on the night of the murders?"
"why was your phone off for 2 hours during the murders and then turned back on right afterwards"?
"did you ever buy a KA BAR knife?"
"were you in Idaho Falls the night of the murders?"
"what is your alibi for the night of the murders?"
An example of the horrible mistake of asking open ended questions is the DA's request in the OJ trial to have OJ put on the gloves. Why in the world would the DA have done that without first knowing if the gloves would fit? That's Trial 101.
You don't lose your law license for asking open-ended questions.
Jabin said:Didn't say "would"; said "should".I am always wrong said:Jabin said:If the DA asked any of those questions in that manner, he should lose his license. On cross, never ever ask an open-ended question. Only ask leading questions to which you already know the answer and can prove.Quote:
imagine the questions that the DA would be able to cross-examine BK with if he took the stand!
"why was your vehicle there 12 times before the murders"
"is that you who wrote the REDDIT posts about searching for criminals?"
"did you throw out your garbage in other people's bins"
"where were you on the night of the murders?"
"why was your phone off for 2 hours during the murders and then turned back on right afterwards"?
"did you ever buy a KA BAR knife?"
"were you in Idaho Falls the night of the murders?"
"what is your alibi for the night of the murders?"
An example of the horrible mistake of asking open ended questions is the DA's request in the OJ trial to have OJ put on the gloves. Why in the world would the DA have done that without first knowing if the gloves would fit? That's Trial 101.
You don't lose your law license for asking open-ended questions.
There are many times when it is appropriate or necessary to ask a witness an open-ended question on cross-examination. Clearly you've never cross-examined a witness.
Well, once again your user name fits perfectly. Great choice!I am always wrong said:Jabin said:Didn't say "would"; said "should".I am always wrong said:Jabin said:If the DA asked any of those questions in that manner, he should lose his license. On cross, never ever ask an open-ended question. Only ask leading questions to which you already know the answer and can prove.Quote:
imagine the questions that the DA would be able to cross-examine BK with if he took the stand!
"why was your vehicle there 12 times before the murders"
"is that you who wrote the REDDIT posts about searching for criminals?"
"did you throw out your garbage in other people's bins"
"where were you on the night of the murders?"
"why was your phone off for 2 hours during the murders and then turned back on right afterwards"?
"did you ever buy a KA BAR knife?"
"were you in Idaho Falls the night of the murders?"
"what is your alibi for the night of the murders?"
An example of the horrible mistake of asking open ended questions is the DA's request in the OJ trial to have OJ put on the gloves. Why in the world would the DA have done that without first knowing if the gloves would fit? That's Trial 101.
You don't lose your law license for asking open-ended questions.
There are many times when it is appropriate or necessary to ask a witness an open-ended question on cross-examination. Clearly you've never cross-examined a witness.
Agreed, Im sure more facts will come out that will explain why the roommate didnt call 911 right away. But its crazy to me how we keep seeing posts that make it seem like it's completely normal for that house to see strange guys dressed in all black/mask walking out at 4:18am after hearing a roommate crying.bonfarr said:ea1060 said:So a random guy walking through your house at 4:18am dressed in all black wearing a mask, wouldn't raise any red flags to you after hearing your roommate cry/whimper, and hearing another roommate say "there's someone here"?? Come on! It obviously freaked out DM since she said she was in a "frozen shock phase", and she locked herself in her room after seeing BK.CashinOut said:
I don't know if it's just me working in a high school setting or what, but kids these days wear stupid stuff. Basically anything to stand out. It's Idaho, in the middle of winter. I don't think someone wearing a mask would raise red flags as a murderer walking through your house.
When people talk black mask, first think that comes to mind is this the typical movie mask with 3 holes cut out. Kids wear balaclavas when it's below 50 here, so I imagine the same in the winter in Idaho.
All this said to say, give her the benefit of the doubt. If I was in a house where people constantly were in and out and someone came in wearing a balaclava, not much thought would go in to it.
Agreed it doesn't make any sense but everyone needs to stop debating the issue of why the roommate didn't call 911 until almost Noon. I think we can all agree it is odd and doesn't make sense if we were the ones in that situation.
I am sure it will be addressed at length in the trial if it comes to that.
That's not normal, and its obvious the roommate was freaked out based on her comments in the affidavit. She knew something was wrong. I think that part isn't even debatable.
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