Hawg - you mentioned PD's experience in this case - is this the blonde who appeared with BK in court? She looked young for having 25 years of experience. I have a couple lawyer friends that have defended some real creeps. Don't know how they did it and certainly can't fathom how she can sit in a room or even have a conversation with this defendant without being totally freaked out. How do they do it and is she looking for not guilty or just trying to take the death penalty away - or that will depend on evidence presented?
University of Idaho - 4 college students murdered
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Last: 8 days ago by Divining Rod
Intrigued by 48hrs. Not sure much could really be in this show less than a week after arrests and affidavit release
He told another guy he could go to a bar and have any girl he wanted.
LOL, I had a feeling someone would post that.MsDoubleD81 said:
He told another guy he could go to a bar and have any girl he wanted.
MsDoubleD81 said:
He told another guy he could go to a bar and have any girl he wanted.
He who? BK?
context
Bryan K.
On 48 Hours they said Authorities sealed the search warrant carried out on Kohbergers house in Pullman.
MsDoubleD81 said:
On 48 Hours they said Authorities sealed the search warrant carried out on Kohbergers house in Pullman.
Yup, there ain't nothing leaking out before trial.
he can't take the stand like Rittenhouse could
so how are they going to cause reasonable doubt?
claim it's not his Elantra being in the neighborhood 12 times before the murders and 4 times that night? that his phone is just around their neighborhood a dozen times for no reason?
how will they give a reason to the jury for his car and his phone if Koberger doesn't testify?
He has no alibi else we would have heard of it by now, or the police would not have focused in on him if he had a nice excuse as to where he was at 0400
there is actually a lot more evidence in this case than in many murder cases.
so how are they going to cause reasonable doubt?
claim it's not his Elantra being in the neighborhood 12 times before the murders and 4 times that night? that his phone is just around their neighborhood a dozen times for no reason?
how will they give a reason to the jury for his car and his phone if Koberger doesn't testify?
He has no alibi else we would have heard of it by now, or the police would not have focused in on him if he had a nice excuse as to where he was at 0400
there is actually a lot more evidence in this case than in many murder cases.
LMCane said:
he can't take the stand like Rittenhouse could
so how are they going to cause reasonable doubt?
claim it's not his Elantra being in the neighborhood 12 times before the murders and 4 times that night? that his phone is just around their neighborhood a dozen times for no reason?
how will they give a reason to the jury for his car and his phone if Koberger doesn't testify?
He has no alibi else we would have heard of it by now, or the police would not have focused in on him if he had a nice excuse as to where he was at 0400
there is actually a lot more evidence in this case than in many murder cases.
Not disagreeing, but why can't he testify?
That 48 hours was really good.
There was nothing new per se - nothing of factual evidence anyway.
But it was a well done bio of the deceased students. Not that it was not already tragic, but I personally did not know anything about them except they were students and the pics I've seen. This gave a lot of background and personal details about them through friends and family.
As the father of two recent college grads it really hit me, these kids, especially the seniors were just on the verge of starting their lives. Really tragic and so needless. I can't imagine.
Never been a PD so cannot attest to that. But her job is to make sure the process is clean, her client, no matter his degree of culpability gets due process. I understand that sounds odd to some people given the grisly optics of this case but that is what our criminal justice system means. It is the process. Some frickers get acquitted, some innocents get convicted.Big Al 1992 said:
Hawg - you mentioned PD's experience in this case - is this the blonde who appeared with BK in court? She looked young for having 25 years of experience. I have a couple lawyer friends that have defended some real creeps. Don't know how they did it and certainly can't fathom how she can sit in a room or even have a conversation with this defendant without being totally freaked out. How do they do it and is she looking for not guilty or just trying to take the death penalty away - or that will depend on evidence presented?
Her job is to make sure he gets a fair trial. Period. Let the chips fall were they will after that.
With four dead young adults is this the type of case the DA would agree to plea by taking the death penalty off the table? My guess is the PD looked at the evidence against her client and is trying to convince him to plead guilty and take the life with no parole but no idea if the prosecutor would go for that.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
Last nights 48 Hours mentioned Madison had been in a serious relationship w her boyfriend for over a year. K and her long term bf just broke up 3 weeks prior to murders. Xana and Evan had been dating since last spring.
While the house may have been a party house, IMO, it would be strange for Dylan to observe a strange male spending the night since these girls ( on the second and 3 floor) had been in serious relationships.
While the house may have been a party house, IMO, it would be strange for Dylan to observe a strange male spending the night since these girls ( on the second and 3 floor) had been in serious relationships.
Found this on the PD. It says she previously got a road-rage murder conviction overturned after showing a police officer lied on the stand (perp was convicted in a second trial). She is 57.aggiehawg said:Never been a PD so cannot attest to that. But her job is to make sure the process is clean, her client, no matter his degree of culpability gets due process. I understand that sounds odd to some people given the grisly optics of this case but that is what our criminal justice system means. It is the process. Some frickers get acquitted, some innocents get convicted.Big Al 1992 said:
Hawg - you mentioned PD's experience in this case - is this the blonde who appeared with BK in court? She looked young for having 25 years of experience. I have a couple lawyer friends that have defended some real creeps. Don't know how they did it and certainly can't fathom how she can sit in a room or even have a conversation with this defendant without being totally freaked out. How do they do it and is she looking for not guilty or just trying to take the death penalty away - or that will depend on evidence presented?
Her job is to make sure he gets a fair trial. Period. Let the chips fall were they will after that.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11599071/Bryan-Kohbergers-new-attorney-famously-overturned-murder-conviction-catching-lying-cop.html
I thought Xana and Ethan had been dating a while too, but in the show they said since June 2022? Wonder if that is an incorrect citation?
neAGle96 said:
Last nights 48 Hours mentioned Madison had been in a serious relationship w her boyfriend for over a year. K and her long term bf just broke up 3 weeks prior to murders. Xana and Evan had been dating since last spring.
While the house may have been a party house, IMO, it would be strange for Dylan to observe a strange male spending the night since these girls ( on the second and 3 floor) had been in serious relationships.
Maybe there's a reason her relationship just ended. Maybe one or both of the others were unfaithful.
neAGle96 said:
Last nights 48 Hours mentioned Madison had been in a serious relationship w her boyfriend for over a year. K and her long term bf just broke up 3 weeks prior to murders. Xana and Evan had been dating since last spring.
While the house may have been a party house, IMO, it would be strange for Dylan to observe a strange male spending the night since these girls ( on the second and 3 floor) had been in serious relationships.
Well she saw someone leaving, not staying the night.
And if she was awake from 2:00-2:30 she might be aware that Kaylee and Madison were calling someone repeatedly. It was her ex bf, but could have been someone they met that night. We don't know what she knew as they were not together at the club.
Still it was a party house and people likely came and went at all hours on occasion. I would imagine it was not the first time she encountered someone she did not know. She was scared but at that point she had heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with the dog, someone saying someone was there, and someone crying. She never even mentioned the thud. So those are not suspicious sounds to necessarily immediately call police. She also saw no weapon, no blood, and heard no screams. He walked right past and so although she was frozen (and possibly looking through a cracked door) she might have thought well it wasn't something bad or he would have come at her as well.
Just come out with it....this is a message board and we are curious.I am always wrong said:duck79 said:AckerlyAg said:
What other aspect of #1 would be more graphic than getting murdered? Since most of the initial info that immediately came out after the incident turned out to be true, I'm curious about the rest of the story that you are alluding to since it is likely true too.
Probably referring to the Reddit post that involved the ceiling fan and a particular knife wound. It was extremely graphic.
No, the one involving the ceiling fan is not what I'm talking about, and I'm pretty sure that one is false. That was not in any of the early rumors.
Just a refresher… where did this "party house" idea come from?
Diet Cokehead said:Just come out with it....this is a message board and we are curious.I am always wrong said:duck79 said:AckerlyAg said:
What other aspect of #1 would be more graphic than getting murdered? Since most of the initial info that immediately came out after the incident turned out to be true, I'm curious about the rest of the story that you are alluding to since it is likely true too.
Probably referring to the Reddit post that involved the ceiling fan and a particular knife wound. It was extremely graphic.
No, the one involving the ceiling fan is not what I'm talking about, and I'm pretty sure that one is false. That was not in any of the early rumors.
WARNING - gross and completely false
I eventually found that reference - it was gross and completely unfounded. It was a bogus claim from an anonymous account (later deleted) that the perp hung their intestines from the ceiling fan.
Zombie Jon Snow said:neAGle96 said:
Last nights 48 Hours mentioned Madison had been in a serious relationship w her boyfriend for over a year. K and her long term bf just broke up 3 weeks prior to murders. Xana and Evan had been dating since last spring.
While the house may have been a party house, IMO, it would be strange for Dylan to observe a strange male spending the night since these girls ( on the second and 3 floor) had been in serious relationships.
Well she saw someone leaving, not staying the night.
And if she was awake from 2:00-2:30 she might be aware that Kaylee and Madison were calling someone repeatedly. It was her ex bf, but could have been someone they met that night. We don't know what she knew as they were not together at the club.
Still it was a party house and people likely came and went at all hours on occasion. I would imagine it was not the first time she encountered someone she did not know. She was scared but at that point she had heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with the dog, someone saying someone was there, and someone crying. She never even mentioned the thud. So those are not suspicious sounds to necessarily immediately call police. She also saw no weapon, no blood, and heard no screams. He walked right past and so although she was frozen (and possibly looking through a cracked door) she might have thought well it wasn't something bad or he would have come at her as well.
Hearing Xana crying and whimpering twice when she opened her door, and then seeing a strange man dressed in all black with a mask on doesn't qualify as suspicious to you?? She said she was frozen in shock, she obviously knew something bad was going on.
At the very least she could've texted or checked on Xana to make sure she was ok after hearing her cry.
TexasRebel said:
Just a refresher… where did this "party house" idea come from?
5 college girls who like to party living in a house together. Seems pretty natural to assume they had parties or small gatherings with friends going in and out.
TexasRebel said:
Just a refresher… where did this "party house" idea come from?
Well the idea came from two things as far as I am aware
1. Pictures - some from press through the windows, some from social media - that showed your typical college party house supplies including like food and dishes everywhere but also solo cups, and maybe ping pong balls from what i recall.
2. Two different police body cam incidents have been posted at the address for noise complaints in 2022. One with Xana talking to police on the ground level outside and the other with Kaylee talking to police outside the sliding glass doors.
It is possible the incidents were isolated of course but they certainly had enough activity to draw police a couple of times and those were both daylight occurrences. It is also possible the party supplies were just average stuff in any college house.
On the other side I have not heard this reputation contradicted by anyone that knows them.
that's not the rumor they're asking about…I am always wrong alluded to a different rumor that I haven't heard
ea1060 said:Zombie Jon Snow said:neAGle96 said:
Last nights 48 Hours mentioned Madison had been in a serious relationship w her boyfriend for over a year. K and her long term bf just broke up 3 weeks prior to murders. Xana and Evan had been dating since last spring.
While the house may have been a party house, IMO, it would be strange for Dylan to observe a strange male spending the night since these girls ( on the second and 3 floor) had been in serious relationships.
Well she saw someone leaving, not staying the night.
And if she was awake from 2:00-2:30 she might be aware that Kaylee and Madison were calling someone repeatedly. It was her ex bf, but could have been someone they met that night. We don't know what she knew as they were not together at the club.
Still it was a party house and people likely came and went at all hours on occasion. I would imagine it was not the first time she encountered someone she did not know. She was scared but at that point she had heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with the dog, someone saying someone was there, and someone crying. She never even mentioned the thud. So those are not suspicious sounds to necessarily immediately call police. She also saw no weapon, no blood, and heard no screams. He walked right past and so although she was frozen (and possibly looking through a cracked door) she might have thought well it wasn't something bad or he would have come at her as well.
Hearing Xana crying and whimpering twice when she opened her door, and then seeing a strange man dressed in all black with a mask on doesn't qualify as suspicious to you?? She said she was frozen in shock, she obviously knew something bad was going on.
At the very least she could've texted or checked on Xana to make sure she was ok after hearing her cry.
I don't know.
In a house with 5 girls who were in relationships at different times I'm going to assume that was not the first time someone was crying.
Note that the term "whimper" came from the affidavit description of what was heard on the neighbors camera. Dylan only mentioned crying - and once not twice. she opened the door twice after hearing crying. The first time she said she saw nothing. the second time she saw the man.
As for the strange man. Like I said I am sure it was not the first time she saw someone she did not know in that house. Did she freeze. Maybe. Likely. Did she panic? Maybe not. If she froze and he went by and all was quiet she may have then dismissed it. We also do not know her state at that time and I'm not speculating on it but it is possible she was not thinking clearly. It was 4am after all of them had been out partying.
But she saw a strange man dressed in all black with a mask after hearing Xana crying. Im sorry, but most people would probably think that was suspicious and check on the roommate. Plus, Xana had a boyfriend (Ethan), and DM specifically said she heard crying from Xana's room, and then saw a man dressed in all black walking towards her.Zombie Jon Snow said:ea1060 said:Zombie Jon Snow said:neAGle96 said:
Last nights 48 Hours mentioned Madison had been in a serious relationship w her boyfriend for over a year. K and her long term bf just broke up 3 weeks prior to murders. Xana and Evan had been dating since last spring.
While the house may have been a party house, IMO, it would be strange for Dylan to observe a strange male spending the night since these girls ( on the second and 3 floor) had been in serious relationships.
Well she saw someone leaving, not staying the night.
And if she was awake from 2:00-2:30 she might be aware that Kaylee and Madison were calling someone repeatedly. It was her ex bf, but could have been someone they met that night. We don't know what she knew as they were not together at the club.
Still it was a party house and people likely came and went at all hours on occasion. I would imagine it was not the first time she encountered someone she did not know. She was scared but at that point she had heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with the dog, someone saying someone was there, and someone crying. She never even mentioned the thud. So those are not suspicious sounds to necessarily immediately call police. She also saw no weapon, no blood, and heard no screams. He walked right past and so although she was frozen (and possibly looking through a cracked door) she might have thought well it wasn't something bad or he would have come at her as well.
Hearing Xana crying and whimpering twice when she opened her door, and then seeing a strange man dressed in all black with a mask on doesn't qualify as suspicious to you?? She said she was frozen in shock, she obviously knew something bad was going on.
At the very least she could've texted or checked on Xana to make sure she was ok after hearing her cry.
I don't know.
In a house with 5 girls who were in relationships at different times I'm going to assume that was not the first time someone was crying.
Note that the term "whimper" came from the affidavit description of what was heard on the neighbors camera. Dylan only mentioned crying - and once not twice. she opened the door twice after hearing crying. The first time she said she saw nothing. the second time she saw the man.
As for the strange man. Like I said I am sure it was not the first time she saw someone she did not know in that house. Did she freeze. Maybe. Likely. Did she panic? Maybe not. If she froze and he went by and all was quiet she may have then dismissed it. We also do not know her state at that time and I'm not speculating on it but it is possible she was not thinking clearly. It was 4am after all of them had been out partying.
If DM didnt think anything was suspicious going on, why would she open the door 3 times after hearing Kaylee say "theres someone here", hear crying from Xana's room, see a suspicious man dressed in all black/mask walking towards her, then lock herself in her room.
I think her using the term frozen shock phase and locking herself in her room after seeing BK, make it obvious she knew there was something bad going on. Seems like she was suspicious of BK and he scared the crap out of her after seeing him.
No wonder Dylan allegedly lawyered up.
I just don't agree because you are assuming a sound state of mind and capability of rational thought. That might be a rational reaction. We have no basis to know if she was in a rational frame of mind. And I'm not suggesting anything. We just do not know. And applying rational reactions is assuming a lot.
Eyewitness testimony also tends to be spotty at best and may be embellished when talking to cops. And we don't know how the info was ascertained. Witnesses can be prone to suggestive testimony. We don't know what the cops asked her. What if they have an unnamed eyewitness (like the DD driver) who said i saw a tall dark man outside all in black with a mask but he was not doing anything at the time. If they asked did you ever peak out and maybe see a tall dark man in black with bushy eyebrows she might have said "yeah i saw that."
We don't know. All we know is the affidavit says she saw him. Until we see the entire testimony and anything else they have I would not judge. And even then I would not judge.
----aside----
Have you ever been witness to a crime? I have not. But I was witness to a large scale unannounced fake crime as an experiment in a TAMU sociology class.
Not one of us reacted very quickly it was all so sudden and crazy. He ran in and pushed someone down and snatched a backpack and ran out the door behind the podium. Everyone just sat or stood there jaws on the floor. then before anyone reacted the prof and TA's came in from all exits and calmed everyone down.
With 100 witnesses in a large auditorium we had 10-12 different interpretations of what happened. After some brief discussion we were all asked to write down what we saw. I was personally prone to some suggestions from others of what they saw.
The perp was then brought back in the classroom and we had not one solid and accurate description of the perp. they played back a video of it they recorded. And even what he did, what he was carrying, how he did it were all over the map. And that was in a fully lighted room in the middle of the day and stone cold sober.
It was quite enlightening and does definitely lead me to be skeptical of a lot.
--------------
Unless her testimony is a lot more detailed and rock solid you will never see her testify in court. Convicting him will not hinge on her testimony. It was simply used for the probable cause. She witnessed nothing and cannot ID him really. What it did do was narrow down the time they were killed most likely. And it may show that he was targeting specific individuals. He did not even check her door or room. And hers was the closest to his entry/exit.
Eyewitness testimony also tends to be spotty at best and may be embellished when talking to cops. And we don't know how the info was ascertained. Witnesses can be prone to suggestive testimony. We don't know what the cops asked her. What if they have an unnamed eyewitness (like the DD driver) who said i saw a tall dark man outside all in black with a mask but he was not doing anything at the time. If they asked did you ever peak out and maybe see a tall dark man in black with bushy eyebrows she might have said "yeah i saw that."
We don't know. All we know is the affidavit says she saw him. Until we see the entire testimony and anything else they have I would not judge. And even then I would not judge.
----aside----
Have you ever been witness to a crime? I have not. But I was witness to a large scale unannounced fake crime as an experiment in a TAMU sociology class.
Not one of us reacted very quickly it was all so sudden and crazy. He ran in and pushed someone down and snatched a backpack and ran out the door behind the podium. Everyone just sat or stood there jaws on the floor. then before anyone reacted the prof and TA's came in from all exits and calmed everyone down.
With 100 witnesses in a large auditorium we had 10-12 different interpretations of what happened. After some brief discussion we were all asked to write down what we saw. I was personally prone to some suggestions from others of what they saw.
The perp was then brought back in the classroom and we had not one solid and accurate description of the perp. they played back a video of it they recorded. And even what he did, what he was carrying, how he did it were all over the map. And that was in a fully lighted room in the middle of the day and stone cold sober.
It was quite enlightening and does definitely lead me to be skeptical of a lot.
--------------
Unless her testimony is a lot more detailed and rock solid you will never see her testify in court. Convicting him will not hinge on her testimony. It was simply used for the probable cause. She witnessed nothing and cannot ID him really. What it did do was narrow down the time they were killed most likely. And it may show that he was targeting specific individuals. He did not even check her door or room. And hers was the closest to his entry/exit.
I've had two girls go through college and I can tell you that females and being roommates is VERY complicated. Not like me and the guys that I lived with back in the day where we all just hung out.
In fact, my youngest actually got to a point where she didn't communicate or see one of her roommates at all and if something happened to her she wouldn't even know to check on her.
There is a strong sense to "not get involved" in other roommates business.
It's unfortunate but that's been my experience. Very difficult to manage these relationships.
I'm sure that's different for others but it doesn't surprise me.
In fact, my youngest actually got to a point where she didn't communicate or see one of her roommates at all and if something happened to her she wouldn't even know to check on her.
There is a strong sense to "not get involved" in other roommates business.
It's unfortunate but that's been my experience. Very difficult to manage these relationships.
I'm sure that's different for others but it doesn't surprise me.
Dylan is not a trial here people. If this psycho never did this gross act she doesn't have to make choice like this she is 20 year old girl yall acting like she rambo or something.
I think the media wouldn't give it as much attention, cops will still do their job
Cepe said:
I've had two girls go through college and I can tell you that females and being roommates is VERY complicated. Not like me and the guys that I lived with back in the day where we all just hung out.
In fact, my youngest actually got to a point where she didn't communicate or see one of her roommates at all and if something happened to her she wouldn't even know to check on her.
There is a strong sense to "not get involved" in other roommates business.
It's unfortunate but that's been my experience. Very difficult to manage these relationships.
I'm sure that's different for others but it doesn't surprise me.
This is true from my experiences with current college daughter. We have visited and she has no idea where roommates are or even if they are still in town, even though we've said to let the others know each other's whereabouts And they are all friends! But different circles and schedules.
And the police have not clarified that the 911 call was to check on a passed out roommate - which roommate. Didn't make sense that a murder victim would be considered passed out, unless the doors had been locked and they just weren't coming out of the room. Or if DM is the roommate they were talking about - passed out from shock or fainted - so needed to check in her, not knowing the condition of other roommates.
not hedge said:
I think the media wouldn't give it as much attention, cops will still do their job
That's not true.
If the perp was white and the girls were black it would get just as much attention. If not more.
But if it was simply a crime of passion, some ex gone off the deep end, it would not have gotten nearly the attention regardless of race. And if it was some party and people gunned down in a drunken moment of hotheadedness it would also not be as intriguing.
I don't think the appeal is just because they are cute white girls.
Personally the intriguing thing for me was the nature of it - the randomness, the unknowns and the brutality. A knife attack on 4 people including a guy is incredibly up close and personal. That takes some guts or psychosis.
It just seemed like from the start it was going to be some psychopath looking for attention. And that panned out imho.
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