HtownAg92 said:

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Jabin said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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The knife sheath (with BK's DNA) seems to be the key piece of evidence. How does the PD discredit it, or does she try to get the judge to throw it out on a technicality?

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Good question. I've been wondering the same thing.

My guess is she will try everything, including an allegation that the police planted it. However, although police have been known to plant evidence, it is hard to convince juries of that unless there's some significant evidence supporting the allegation.

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Or the injection of race and flipping the whole focus of the trial to the investigating officer. But even then, you would need a brain-dead inner-city jury and a famous athlete for it to work.

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No offense, but trying to make it about race or suggesting that the evidence was planted are both pretty ridiculous answers and great ways for the defense to destroy their credibility with the jury.

The defense is most likely going to hire experts to attack the accuracy and reliability of the trace DNA testing and the methodology of tracking a person's location via cell phone towers. They're probably also going to have an expert reconstruct the crime scene to poke holes in whatever the prosecution has put together, and they will theorize a number of possible alibis as well as legitimate non-criminal reasons why he would have regularly been in the area in the months before the crime. I think those are near certainties, but beyond that, there is no way to know what angles his defense team might take until we know what other evidence is out there.

If what is in the declaration is all they have, then this is far from a sure winner, but I'm sure they have way more. Hopefully there is some blood or saliva DNA, digital traces of him targeting them, and some evidence of prior contact and a motive.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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ea1060 said:

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She said she woke up to "what sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog" in one of the third-floor bedrooms.

A short time later, the roommate told police she heard who she believed to be Kaylee say, "there's someone here."

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Wondering if this was Goncalves (originally in her own bed) hearing someone in the house, getting up, and making her dog stay in her room (hence the "playing with her dog" comment), going into Maddie's room, and telling her someone is in the house. Killer hears the commotion upstairs and goes up to kill them both.

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I believe KG had already packed up her stuff to move out because she was graduating and starting a new job in Austin. She was sharing a bed with MM because hers was packed up.

Thanks. I was in the bathroom at home depot one day. My phone started ringing. I can't remember what Caller ID said but when I answered they asked, "are you OK??" I was like "who TF is this?" It was a 911 dispatcher who said I'd called them and hung up. Not to my knowledge. Apparently, I guess I accidentally pressed and held the 9 button that dialed 911.

I am always wrong said:

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HtownAg92 said:

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Jabin said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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The knife sheath (with BK's DNA) seems to be the key piece of evidence. How does the PD discredit it, or does she try to get the judge to throw it out on a technicality?

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Good question. I've been wondering the same thing.

My guess is she will try everything, including an allegation that the police planted it. However, although police have been known to plant evidence, it is hard to convince juries of that unless there's some significant evidence supporting the allegation.

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Or the injection of race and flipping the whole focus of the trial to the investigating officer. But even then, you would need a brain-dead inner-city jury and a famous athlete for it to work.

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No offense, but trying to make it about race or suggesting that the evidence was planted are both pretty ridiculous answers and great ways for the defense to destroy their credibility with the jury.

The defense is most likely going to hire experts to attack the accuracy and reliability of the trace DNA testing and the methodology of tracking a person's location via cell phone towers. They're probably also going to have an expert reconstruct the crime scene to poke holes in whatever the prosecution has put together, and they will theorize a number of possible alibis as well as legitimate non-criminal reasons why he would have regularly been in the area in the months before the crime. I think those are near certainties, but beyond that, there is no way to know what angles his defense team might take until we know what other evidence is out there.

If what is in the declaration is all they have, then this is far from a sure winner, but I'm sure they have way more. Hopefully there is some blood or saliva DNA, digital traces of him targeting them, and some evidence of prior contact and a motive.

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Oh, I agree. I was trying to highlight the ridiculousness of the OJ jury, who believed that the glove, blood, etc. was planted by a racist LAPD. Outside of those circumstances, it would be foolish for the PD to try it, especially if she has to work with these cops a lot.

Fellow acdem probation grad

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If what is in the declaration is all they have, then this is far from a sure winner, but I'm sure they have way more. Hopefully there is some blood or saliva DNA, digital traces of him targeting them, and some evidence of prior contact and a motive.

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Pretty sure they have much more than what was in PCA. And remember that one page was completely redacted.

I too share the hope there is blood or saliva DNA that is concrete. The digital evidence there are just now beginning to sort through his electronic devices.

But you are wrong about one thing. Motive is not necessary for a first degree murder charge and conviction, only premeditation is. Now motive as a why did they do it is circumstantial evidence of premeditation but not dispositive of it.

We may never really know why he committed these crimes.

Maybe they already have the shoes?

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In a press conference on Jan. 3, Pennsylvania State Police did not reveal details about how Kohberger was tracked to Pennsylvania but said they sent roughly 50 officers to ensure he could not escape the arrest.

Major Christopher Paris said multiple windows were broken as they approached Kohberger's home in Chestnuthill Township, where he was reported to have lived with his parents.

Paris said multiple items were seized from the home, along with a white Hyundai Elantra vehicle as part of the Idaho investigation.

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LINK

So this is something new that I haven't seen before. Xana got her doordash delivery at 4am, and was awake and on tik tok at 4:12am. BK was seen driving off around 4:20am. So basically there was like a 5-6 minute window of these murders happening (4:13am-4:19am). Seems like a ridiculously tight timeline for BK to enter the house, stab/kill 4 people in 2 separate rooms, leave the house, get in car and drive off.

Does anyone else feel like thats kind of an odd/fast timeline for the murders to happen? Especially when 1 or more of the victims reportedly put up a fight.

The vehicle, which the police said was a Hyundai Elantra, started appearing around 3:29 a.m., passing by the area three times before returning for a fourth time at 4:04 a.m., around the time that the surviving roommate was awakened and that the police believe the killings occurred. The vehicle, the police said, could be seen speeding away from the area at 4:20 a.m.

According to police, Xana was awake at approximately 4 a.m. and received a DoorDash order around that time. Police believe she was awake because her cell phone records show she was using TikTok at approximately 4:12 a.m.

Have you used TikTok? I've fallen asleep dozen of times with it playing on my chest or accidentally downloading a video because I fell asleep and squeezed the screen. And 15min 4:05-4:20 is enough time to kill people.

her phone could have still been streaming tiktok videos while she was bleeding out until a certain amount of time went by when the phone finally went dark/lock screen so I dont think you can fully place 4:13 as his entry time.

I think the 'around that time' probably means door dash got there a few minutes before 4am. Or right at 4 am and BK walked in between 4:02 - 4:05. 10 - 15 minutes to come up on someone, slice their throat and then stab them a lot, do it again, then go upstairs and do it to 2 girls who were likely asleep and slip out is sadly enough time.

And as mentioned before his adrenaline was probably going bonkers at this point, leading him to 'rush' through it and get out.

I've been wondering if there's a recording of anything on one of their phones.

Was she just viewing, or making content?

Honestly I don't. That's quite a long time to be inside in my opinion.

ea1060 said:

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So this is something new that I haven't seen before. Xana got her doordash delivery at 4am, and was awake and on tik tok at 4:12am. BK was seen driving off around 4:20am. So basically there was like a 5-6 minute window of these murders happening (4:13am-4:19am). Seems like a ridiculously tight timeline for BK to enter the house, stab/kill 4 people in 2 separate rooms, leave the house, get in car and drive off.

Does anyone else seem like thats kind of an odd/fast timeline for the murders to happen? Especially when 1 or more of the victims reportedly put up a fight.

The vehicle, which the police said was a Hyundai Elantra, started appearing around 3:29 a.m., passing by the area three times before returning for a fourth time at 4:04 a.m., around the time that the surviving roommate was awakened and that the police believe the killings occurred. The vehicle, the police said, could be seen speeding away from the area at 4:20 a.m.

According to police, Xana was awake at approximately 4 a.m. and received a DoorDash order around that time. Police believe she was awake because her cell phone records show she was using TikTok at approximately 4:12 a.m.

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My only guess here is that maybe he used the door dash delivery as his timing window thinking the girls would maybe think it was the delivery driver coming back with more of their order or something as to not arouse suspicion.

The door dash likely would have been dropped off at front door (first of the third floors). Him entering from the back on the second floor, he may not have even known that a door dash delivery was dropped off. The timing of how it all went down is definitely interesting and seems like a tight timeframe for four violent murders.

zgolfz85 said:

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so where was the suspect walking from? obviously wasn't coming down the stairs, or he would've been on top of DM when she opened her door.

also, were the sleuths wrong about DM the whole time in saying she was on the 1st floor, not knowing that one of the 1st floor bedrooms was not occupied?

what a weird home setup

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Bump.

This part is driving me crazy

Is a short timeline but that knife is very deadly. I have not seen an autopsy report yet. There have been some reports of multiple wounds being inflicted but until the autopsy is available I won't speculate too much on those and the time it might have taken other than to say a frenzied stabbing doesn't take that much time per thrust.

Also remember this guy was a boxer for awhile, could easily have quick reflexes.

Captn_Ag05 said:

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The door dash likely would have been dropped off at front door (first of the third floors). Him entering from the back on the second floor, he may not have even known that a door dash delivery was dropped off. The timing of how it all went down is definitely interesting and seems like a tight timeframe for four violent murders.

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The map that I posted a few pages back postulated that he parked on Queen Road which is a dead end road up above the house on the southeast side. If he were entering from the back second floor slider, he would have no direct view of the front door on the north side of the house.

In case folks havent seen this yet, its a pretty good timeline of that night with the updated affidavit information.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/crime/university-of-idaho-students-killed/idaho-murders-explained/293-892df869-5e3e-4526-825d-6b9a2a2468a1

Could it be possible he placed the door dash order for Xana? This would provide him a way in to the house, (make sure the door is unlocked) so he doesn't raise a commotion outside breaking a window or leave his dna if he has to forcibly enter the residence.

Anyone else think BK is an idiot for committing these murders on a busy Saturday night when everyone was out and about? I feel like doing this on a random Tuesday night during the week would have been better. Everyone would have been asleep earlier.

Maybe he was planning on them being drunk and passed out on Saturday night by the time he got there.

Bluecat_Aggie94 said:

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Two people at a time, they had to be quick. If he's taking multiple minutes for each kill, he is waking people. I'm betting you could probably time each murder in seconds.

Geez makes me queasy typing those words. Lord have mercy.

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Macabre yes. But try it yourself making a stabbing motion and count how many downward thrusts or swipes you can make in a minute of time. It is quite a few. And then think of a boxer training on a speed ball.

Hmmmm. I wonder too if she even ate the food. The bag was still perfect if the pic is authentic. He may have killed M and K and was on his way out and saw X coming out of her room. She ran back in and he followed. Maybe she's the one who said "someone's here".

TexasRebel said:

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I've been wondering if there's a recording of anything on one of their phones.

Was she just viewing, or making content?

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Most likely a drunk girl at 4am just scrolling through tik tok and watching videos.

ea1060 said:

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In case folks havent seen this yet, its a pretty good timeline of that night with the updated affidavit information.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/crime/university-of-idaho-students-killed/idaho-murders-explained/293-892df869-5e3e-4526-825d-6b9a2a2468a1

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good article. Seems 4:06 - 4:18 is his time in-house more or less. And it is sounding maybe like he went upstairs first and could have caught Xana/Ethan on his way out.

The 'thud' picked up near Xana's wall security camera could have been Ethan or Xana, the final victim finally succumbing to the injuries. Wheover was found on the floor (can't remember)

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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If what is in the declaration is all they have, then this is far from a sure winner, but I'm sure they have way more. Hopefully there is some blood or saliva DNA, digital traces of him targeting them, and some evidence of prior contact and a motive.

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Pretty sure they have much more than what was in PCA. And remember that one page was completely redacted.

I too share the hope there is blood or saliva DNA that is concrete. The digital evidence there are just now beginning to sort through his electronic devices.

But you are wrong about one thing. Motive is not necessary for a first degree murder charge and conviction, only premeditation is. Now motive as a why did they do it is circumstantial evidence of premeditation but not dispositive of it.

We may never really know why he committed these crimes.

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I appreciate your attempt to out-lawyer a trial lawyer, but…

1. I'm not wrong because I did not say motive is a necessary element of a first degree murder charge. I'm very well aware it is not, which is why I was particular with my words. What I said is that I hope there is some evidence of a motive and prior contact. The reason I hope for that evidence is because it will go a long way toward convincing a jury to convict somebody of murder in a case like this if they have some understanding of his relationship with the victims and why he murdered them, even if it's a very high level understanding. If it's just that he saw them working at a restaurant one day and became obsessed because he's a psychopathic killer, that's fine. But a jury understanding somebody's motivation for committing a crime helps tremendously with a conviction, so I hope there is some evidence of it. If that evidence exists, I expect some of it will come from his digital footprint.

2. If we're going to be legally precise, let's stop calling it "the PCA." It is not an affidavit, unless Idaho defines "affidavit" to include an unsworn declaration under penalty of perjury.

Edit for 3. There is not a page completely redacted. It was a scan of the back of the previous page with blue ink from the previous page's "REDACTED" stamp bleeding through.

Bunk Moreland said:

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ea1060 said:

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In case folks havent seen this yet, its a pretty good timeline of that night with the updated affidavit information.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/crime/university-of-idaho-students-killed/idaho-murders-explained/293-892df869-5e3e-4526-825d-6b9a2a2468a1

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good article. Seems 4:06 - 4:18 is his time in-house more or less. And it is sounding maybe like he went upstairs first and could have caught Xana/Ethan on his way out.

The 'thud' picked up near Xana's wall security camera could have been Ethan or Xana, the final victim finally succumbing to the injuries. Wheover was found on the floor (can't remember)

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Police believe Xana was awake at 4:12am because her cell phone records show she was using Tik Tok at that exact time. I don't think any of the murders happened before then or else Xana or the surviving roommate, would have heard something.

ea1060 said:

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Bunk Moreland said:

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ea1060 said:

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In case folks havent seen this yet, its a pretty good timeline of that night with the updated affidavit information.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/crime/university-of-idaho-students-killed/idaho-murders-explained/293-892df869-5e3e-4526-825d-6b9a2a2468a1

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good article. Seems 4:06 - 4:18 is his time in-house more or less. And it is sounding maybe like he went upstairs first and could have caught Xana/Ethan on his way out.

The 'thud' picked up near Xana's wall security camera could have been Ethan or Xana, the final victim finally succumbing to the injuries. Wheover was found on the floor (can't remember)

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Police believe Xana was awake at 4:12am because her cell phone records show she was using Tik Tok at that exact time. I don't think any of the murders happened before then or else Xana or the surviving roommate, would have heard something.

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Again, just because she was 'using' TikTok does not mean she was touching her phone and engaging with it.

Bunk Moreland said:

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ea1060 said:

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Bunk Moreland said:

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ea1060 said:

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In case folks havent seen this yet, its a pretty good timeline of that night with the updated affidavit information.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/crime/university-of-idaho-students-killed/idaho-murders-explained/293-892df869-5e3e-4526-825d-6b9a2a2468a1

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good article. Seems 4:06 - 4:18 is his time in-house more or less. And it is sounding maybe like he went upstairs first and could have caught Xana/Ethan on his way out.

The 'thud' picked up near Xana's wall security camera could have been Ethan or Xana, the final victim finally succumbing to the injuries. Wheover was found on the floor (can't remember)

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Police believe Xana was awake at 4:12am because her cell phone records show she was using Tik Tok at that exact time. I don't think any of the murders happened before then or else Xana or the surviving roommate, would have heard something.

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Again, just because she was 'using' TikTok does not mean she was touching her phone and engaging with it.

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Again, I highly doubt Xana got her doordash delivery at 4am, got on tik tok, and then passed out before 4:12am. Plus, if police suspect she was awake based on her Tik Tok activity, I assume they can track her scrolling through videos, liking videos etc.