University of Idaho - 4 college students murdered

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I am always wrong
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:13a, 1/4/23
BQ78 said:
Why is a guy, whose parents live in a gated community, needing a series of public defenders?

Being able to afford a monthly mortgage payment on a house in a gated community does not mean you can afford to spend hundreds of thousands in cash on private criminal defense attorneys. Also, the parents didn't do anything criminal. It's one thing if your kid gets a DWI and you're spending $20k to help him out of trouble. It's another thing entirely when your kid is arrested for a quadruple murder based on DNA evidence. You're not going to spend your retirement funding his defense knowing he's more likely than not going to be found guilty anyway. That seems like common sense.
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BQ78
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In reply to Petrino1 • 10:14a, 1/4/23
AG
Well that would explain it, living above their means.
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agracer
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:16a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
Well that would explain it, living above their means.
There are plenty of gated communities that are not 30,000 millionaire homes.
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BQ78
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In reply to I am always wrong • 10:16a, 1/4/23
AG
You are making an assumption about his guilt and his parent's belief about that guilt.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to I am always wrong • 10:17a, 1/4/23
AG
Quote:
Being able to afford a monthly mortgage payment on a house in a gated community does not mean you can afford to spend hundreds of thousands in cash on private criminal defense attorneys. Also, the parents didn't do anything criminal. It's one thing if your kid gets a DWI and you're spending $20k to help him out of trouble. It's another thing entirely when your kid is arrested for a quadruple murder based on DNA evidence. I'm not going to spend my retirement funding his defense knowing he's more likely than not going to be found guilty anyway. That seems like common sense.
Plus there is always a chance a criminal defense attorney might step up to do it pro bono. Big case, national interest, etc.
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BQ78
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In reply to agracer • 10:19a, 1/4/23
AG
I don't live in a gated community but if one of my kids was in this kind of trouble they wouldn't need a PD? Perhaps as someone else alluded they are using PDs until they can vette but if they are in financial troubles that could explain it too.
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I am always wrong
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:19a, 1/4/23
BQ78 said:
You are making an assumption about his guilt and his parent's belief about that guilt.

I'm sure they don't believe he's guilty at this point. Doesn't change the reality that they probably can't afford private lawyers, or the reality that if they could scrape the cash together, it might ruin them financially. A case like this could easily end up being $1.5 million in attorneys' fees and expenses.
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Emotional Support Cobra
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In reply to agracer • 10:22a, 1/4/23
AG
agracer said:
BQ78 said:
Well that would explain it, living above their means.
There are plenty of gated communities that are not 30,000 millionaire homes.


This, not everyone has 3+ mil in the bank. Even goid planners with modest retirement plans generally don't account for this type of emergency.

My parents are planners and well off, but even they would not be able to fund more than a million and then they would be destitute. If I killed a bunch of people and they were pretty sure I did it, they would keep the money to take care of my family and let me have a public defender.
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BQ78
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10:23a, 1/4/23
AG
I certainly get that but family is more valuable than money and comfort.
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Emotional Support Cobra
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:23a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
I certainly get that but family is more valuable than money and comfort.


Is it though if your son murdered 4 people?
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BQ78
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In reply to Emotional Support Cobra • 10:26a, 1/4/23
AG
Again that is an assumption and even more so when talking about your kids. If they know he is guilty, they should push him to plead, which would be another reason for just a PD. But still a savvy attorney is going to get a better plea deal.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:29a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
Again that is an assumption and even more so when talking about your kids. If they know he is guilty, they should push him to plead, which would be another reason for just a PD.
Idaho is a death penalty state. Best he could do is four concurrent life sentences on a plea deal, I'd wager.
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aginlakeway
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:29a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
Why is a guy, whose parents live in a gated community, needing a series of public defenders?

Because the determination of whether or not someone is qualified to get a PD has to do with THEIR assets, not their family's assets.
"I'm sure that won't make a bit of difference for those of you who enjoy a baseless rage over the decisions of a few teenagers."
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BQ78
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In reply to aggiehawg • 10:31a, 1/4/23
AG
And a PD could probably wrangle that as well as F. Lee Bailey
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aginlakeway
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:31a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
I don't live in a gated community but if one of my kids was in this kind of trouble they wouldn't need a PD? Perhaps as someone else alluded they are using PDs until they can vette but if they are in financial troubles that could explain it too.

Many PDs are just as good if not better than high-end paid attorneys. The PD of course is paid, but buy the court.

I know some very good PDs. And they're very aggressive and sometimes thing outside the box.
"I'm sure that won't make a bit of difference for those of you who enjoy a baseless rage over the decisions of a few teenagers."
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BQ78
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In reply to aginlakeway • 10:32a, 1/4/23
AG
I get that too but just looking at it from my POV I guess. I would try to be there for my kids.
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I am always wrong
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:32a, 1/4/23
BQ78 said:
I certainly get that but family is more valuable than money and comfort.

Not necessarily. At some point you have to tell your kid you will always love him, but if a jury unanimously believes there's no reasonable doubt that he did this, he's going to have to account for his actions, and that doesn't involve you spending millions of dollars for him.

If some major red flag comes up before/during/after trial that truly contradicts the case being put on by the prosecution, I would agree that's worth pursuing and putting some money into. But absent something like that coming up, if I'm his parents, I'm not ruining myself financially to defend him all the way through trial and appeals.
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agracer
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:33a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
Again that is an assumption and even more so when talking about your kids. If they know he is guilty, they should push him to plead, which would be another reason for just a PD. But still a savvy attorney is going to get a better plea deal.
Other than no death penalty, he's getting life in prison. Would a PD not be able to plea that? I would think the prosecution, while maybe wanting to make a political name for themselves, would take that and avoid the horrible trial details for the families of the victims.
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aginlakeway
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:34a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
I get that too but just looking at it from my POV I guess. I would try to be there for my kids.

100% understand and agree. But again, many PDs are very good attorneys. They take paid for and PD cases.

In a case like this, the financial burden on someone paying for his defense would be millions. And for very likely just as good of a defense/case as a PD could present.
"I'm sure that won't make a bit of difference for those of you who enjoy a baseless rage over the decisions of a few teenagers."
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torrid
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10:34a, 1/4/23
AG
If the evidence is decent, the only real question is life in prison or the death penalty. That's why I want to see if there is more in the probable cause affidavit than a white car and a partial DNA match to some distant relative.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to aginlakeway • 10:35a, 1/4/23
AG
aginlakeway said:
BQ78 said:
I don't live in a gated community but if one of my kids was in this kind of trouble they wouldn't need a PD? Perhaps as someone else alluded they are using PDs until they can vette but if they are in financial troubles that could explain it too.

Many PDs are just as good if not better than high-end paid attorneys. The PD of course is paid, but buy the court.

I know some very good PDs. And they're very aggressive and sometimes thing outside the box.
Plus they are in court constantly and if they have been around for many years are very experienced. This is going to be a procedural trial with lots of motions to exclude certain evidence. Obviously the DNA evidence is the first target.
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aginlakeway
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In reply to aggiehawg • 10:37a, 1/4/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
aginlakeway said:
BQ78 said:
I don't live in a gated community but if one of my kids was in this kind of trouble they wouldn't need a PD? Perhaps as someone else alluded they are using PDs until they can vette but if they are in financial troubles that could explain it too.

Many PDs are just as good if not better than high-end paid attorneys. The PD of course is paid, but buy the court.

I know some very good PDs. And they're very aggressive and sometimes thing outside the box.
Plus they are in court constantly and if they have been around for many years are very experienced. This is going to be a procedural trial with lots of motions to exclude certain evidence. Obviously the DNA evidence is the first target.

Yep. Maybe even more experienced than a high-end paid attorney.
"I'm sure that won't make a bit of difference for those of you who enjoy a baseless rage over the decisions of a few teenagers."
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BQ78
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10:39a, 1/4/23
AG
What case? This thread makes me think I would not want any of you on my jury. We've heard lots of conjecture and media reports but nothing has been presented to convict this guy (as it should be). Yet F16 consensus seems to be we should have a hood in place and a rope around his neck. Sadly today's world makes me question what authorities are telling me.
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WHOOP!'91
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In reply to aginlakeway • 10:39a, 1/4/23
AG
aginlakeway said:
BQ78 said:
I get that too but just looking at it from my POV I guess. I would try to be there for my kids.

100% understand and agree. But again, many PDs are very good attorneys. They take paid for and PD cases.

In a case like this, the financial burden on someone paying for his defense would be millions. And for very likely just as good of a defense/case as a PD could present.
Saul Goodman did PD work and was very creative in his defenses.
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chickencoupe16
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:43a, 1/4/23
AG
BQ78 said:
I certainly get that but family is more valuable than money and comfort.


I'll never understand why people put so much stock in family just because they're family. Why should you trust, depend on, or even love them just because they're family? If your dad raised you well and is a great guy, you should love him but not because he happens to share your DNA. The same goes for siblings and cousins and so on. Children are a little different because most people have a part in shaping them as people, but there has to be a line.

Friends are what matters in life because you choose those. If your family happen to be your friends, that's awesome, but not required.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to WHOOP!'91 • 10:43a, 1/4/23
WHOOP!'91 said:
aginlakeway said:
BQ78 said:
I get that too but just looking at it from my POV I guess. I would try to be there for my kids.

100% understand and agree. But again, many PDs are very good attorneys. They take paid for and PD cases.

In a case like this, the financial burden on someone paying for his defense would be millions. And for very likely just as good of a defense/case as a PD could present.
Saul Goodman did PD work and was very creative in his defenses.
Then Bryan Kohlberger better call Saul.
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I am always wrong
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:48a, 1/4/23
BQ78 said:
What case? This thread makes me think I would not want any of you on my jury. We've heard lots of conjecture and media reports but nothing has been presented to convict this guy (as it should be). Yet F16 consensus seems to be we should have a hood in place and a rope around his neck. Sadly today's world makes me question what authorities are telling me.

Probably the case that is laid out in affidavits to the judges who signed off on at least five separate warrants, including a nighttime raid on his parents' home by 50 armed personnel.

Nobody here is assuming he's guilty that I've seen. But I am assuming there is solid enough evidence to get five separate warrants and arrest him for a quadruple murder since multiple judges in two states agreed.
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Rip*91
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In reply to WHOOP!'91 • 10:52a, 1/4/23
AG
WHOOP!'91 said:
aginlakeway said:
BQ78 said:
I get that too but just looking at it from my POV I guess. I would try to be there for my kids.

100% understand and agree. But again, many PDs are very good attorneys. They take paid for and PD cases.

In a case like this, the financial burden on someone paying for his defense would be millions. And for very likely just as good of a defense/case as a PD could present.
Saul Goodman did PD work and was very creative in his defenses.



Don't forget Kim. She was good too and looked a lot better!
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aggiehawg
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In reply to I am always wrong • 10:53a, 1/4/23
AG
Quote:
But I am assuming there is solid enough evidence to get five separate warrants and arrest him for a quadruple murder since multiple judges in two states agreed.
Three states. His apartment was in Washington state.
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HtownAg92
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11:09a, 1/4/23
AG
Expensive, high-profile defense attorneys don't like to lose, so despite the great opportunity to fee churn and be in the spotlight, this is not a case they are running to take. So if there is slam-dunk DNA evidence and there is little hope for a blind, biased ignorant OJ jury, they may want to steer clear. Especially if the fee churning has a risk of non-payment.

On the other hand, this case is perfect for a PD. Getting appointed helps fend off hits to your reputation ("just doing my duty as an appointed advocate"), get some notoriety, get some props for a couple of wins (evidentiary rulings, motions), ultimately lose or plead after giving best efforts. No harm, no foul. No one considers you a scumbag whose tricks helped someone get away with murder (Cochran, Bailey, etc.). Write a book and retire.
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zgolfz85
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11:11a, 1/4/23
AG
The parent's house didn't look fancy by any stretch. Looked like it was likely an older gated community and I think the "gated" bit was overstating how nice or valuable the home is
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torrid
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11:45a, 1/4/23
AG
Pennsylvania state trooper plane flight info:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ac1967
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themissinglink
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11:47a, 1/4/23
AG
Given that there's supposedly over 20,000 tips not to mention everything else that will be turned over in discovery, a decent private defense attorney would be a multi-million dollar bill even if they give a discount for the notoriety they will receive from the case.

I would also think using a public defender bolsters the chances of prevailing on appeal for ineffective counsel. Not that I would expect him to go free, but it will keep him alive a bit longer by keeping his appeal going.
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MsDoubleD81
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In reply to torrid • 11:47a, 1/4/23
AG
What is the range on that???
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FriskyGardenGnome
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In reply to torrid • 11:48a, 1/4/23
AG
They're flying him in a PA-owned plane? I assume Idaho picks up the tab?
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