Ukraine attacked nato. Bring on article 5!

Yukon Cornelius said:

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torrid said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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So in reality it was Ukraine that fired missiles that landed in Poland, a NATO country, and killed two people.

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Yes, comrade spambot.

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So I called this pretty early on and got some flack by many of you. It seems some of y'all are too quick to disparage any thoughts outside of Russia did it. It's nearly impossible to have meaningful conversations on this board about this Ukraine/Russia conflict without y'all popping up. "Comrade this, comrade that"

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Don't be so quick to spike the football there.

You made that post immediately after ONE extremely non verified twitter post that you read as gospel because it fits your biases. And we still don't know for sure yet. As of now, the twits saying it may be Uke AA have the same veracity of those saying it was Russian. We simply don't know yet. You may very well be right, and al things being equal, I hope you are too. We don't need more possible escalation.

So please spare us the victim bit and smugness. It's unbecoming. You knew no more than us but jumped to your conclusions just as much as most others did. All of us do it to some extent, you are no different. Don't kid yourself there.

It still was in the air because of Russia, whether it was a Russian missile or a Uke AA missile.

Rossticus said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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Unnamed "US Officials" so grains of salt and all.

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AP going with it too. Not a surprise as it was the most likely explanation. We'll see if the story changes but I doubt it. Utterly unprofessional to leak it prior to Poland, though.

Three U.S. officials told the @AP that preliminary assessments indicate the missile that struck Poland had been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.https://t.co/0M7UuvvjCz

— The Associated Press (@AP) November 16, 2022

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This seems to be what happened .. maybe Russia will stop shooting missiles near the border

fullback44 said:

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Rossticus said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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Unnamed "US Officials" so grains of salt and all.

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AP going with it too. Not a surprise as it was the most likely explanation. We'll see if the story changes but I doubt it. Utterly unprofessional to leak it prior to Poland, though.

Three U.S. officials told the @AP that preliminary assessments indicate the missile that struck Poland had been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.https://t.co/0M7UuvvjCz

— The Associated Press (@AP) November 16, 2022

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This seems to be what happened .. maybe Russia will stop shooting missiles near the border

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Why have seen some S300s on the Russian side go wildly off course before. I never worked with the latest gens of SAMs but I imagine that western tech has a self detonation ability if missile deviates too far from target. Anyone know if Russian SAMs have this?

Standard protocol is to fire two anti ballistic missiles at incoming when trying to shoot them down. My immediate thought is with the Russians firing over 100 missiles yesterday is the Uke S300 system missed and they fell in Poland. The S300 is old and inaccurate

Sounds like good news! We can delay the start of WW3 another few weeks hopefully.

NATO: "Our preliminary analysis suggests that the incident was likely caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to defend Ukrainian territory against Russian cruise missile attacks."

ACCIDENT

74OA said:

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NATO: "Our preliminary analysis suggests that the incident was likely caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to defend Ukrainian territory against Russian cruise missile attacks."

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So...

NATO has to declare war on Ukraine, right?

Albatross Necklace said:

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74OA said:

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NATO: "Our preliminary analysis suggests that the incident was likely caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to defend Ukrainian territory against Russian cruise missile attacks."

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So...

NATO has to declare war on Ukraine, right?

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That means we'd have to attack Democrats and I don't see that happening.

JBAggie00 said:

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Ukraine attacked nato. Bring on article 5!

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Right? Now watch this story disappear.

It was more of just logical assumption in combination of limited data. I wasn't the only one saying this possibility either. I have no bias here. Which is the point. So many of you are looking for Russia under every rock the idea anyone else is responsible is met with criticism. And not intellectual criticism. Mainly name calling.

People here were saying ALL evidence points to Russia etc. Statements like this are intellectually dishonest and I find this is incredibly common in discussions revolving this war. It's a beating to try and have meaningful conversations.

Interesting comment from Ukrainian Defense Sec. They seem to feel like they have something that supports their case. Not sure that precludes a Ukrainian AD missile being involved but there may be some behind the scenes maneuvering in the part of NATO to make this go away without having to publicly respond to Russia and risk escalation. Would honestly be a shrewd move on NATO's part.

We advocate for a joint examination of the incident with the missile’s landing in Poland. We are ready to hand over evidence of the russian trace that we have. We are expecting information from our partners, based on which a conclusion was made that it’s a 🇺🇦 air defense missile.

— Oleksiy Danilov (@OleksiyDanilov) November 16, 2022

There is almost no possibility Russia deliberately hit such a target. Its useless. Nor were they opening a war against Poland or there would be more.

Agreed. They are losing. Last thing they want is to fight Poland and NATO. It's within the realm of possibility it came from them as an errant missile but I thibk at this point it's looking very much like Ukraine's.

titan said:

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There is almost no possibility Russia deliberately hit such a target. Its useless. Nor were they opening a war against Poland or there would be more.

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Oh, I don't think anyone thinks it was an intentional attack. Either way, it was an errant strike.

Rossticus said:

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titan said:

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There is almost no possibility Russia deliberately hit such a target. Its useless. Nor were they opening a war against Poland or there would be more.

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Oh, I don't think anyone thinks it was an intentional attack. Either way, it was an errant strike.

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And only an intentional attack really rates a war. Now some kind of consequences, penalty-change, that's another matter.

Belgian minister of defense confirms that it was an intercept and not a misfire or overshoot.

Based on current information, the strikes in #Poland seem to be a result of Ukrainian air defense. Pieces of Russian missiles and a Ukrainian interception missile are said to have landed in Poland. To be confirmed by ongoing investigations.

— Ludivine Dedonder (@DedonderLudivin) November 16, 2022

Still haven't seen daytime pics and Ukraine is hungry to hand over anything they have. I think the world got egg on their face for calling it two Russian missiles early on and now they shifter to SAM missiles.

Still wouldn't be surprised if if was really just a grain explosion.

Where are the pictures of the hole and the missile parts????

وجهة نظر شخصية، حول الحادثه التي وقعت شرق بولندا.

"ان صدقت توقعاتي فهي من توفيق الله"

حقيقةً بعد مراجعة الصور والمقاطع المتوفرة، استطيع القول بان ماحدث ليس بسبب سقوط صاروخ. وذلك للاسباب التالية:

— Faisal (@ah64faisal) November 15, 2022

this guy seems to think something exploded under the tractor too...
(you have to translate the text, but he is saying what Canyon was saying too)

At this point I'm going to wait and see what Polish authorities conclude.

Due to the nature of the combustibility of grain dust (and seemingly corn in this instance, based on photos of the site), I have a hard time coming to the conclusion that enough explosive force could be generated outward in an open pit, such that it would blow the whole thing out.

We'll see what they say, though.

Rossticus said:

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At this point I'm going to wait and see what Polish authorities conclude.

Due to the nature of the combustibility of grain dust (and seemingly corn in this instance, based on photos of the site), I have a hard time coming to the conclusion that enough explosive force could be generated outward in an open pit, such that it would blow the whole thing out.

We'll see what they say, though.

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A lot of people have egg on their face for saying it was missiles in the beginning. I think a lot of people wanted it to be missiles. Now they have to somehow walk it back. Ukraine is saying 100% that it was not their missile and they want to cooperate with any investigation. To this date, they have not been allowed access to the site to help.

I saw tweets from the Ukrainian government that, as of yesterday, they were in Poland and were at least at the site. No idea what level of access they're being allowed, though. Regardless, nothing is going to come from this externally despite whatever the ultimate reality is proven to be. IMO, at least.

Waffledynamics said:

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It still was in the air because of Russia, whether it was a Russian missile or a Uke AA missile.

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My god you're obsessed

FriscoKid said:

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Rossticus said:

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At this point I'm going to wait and see what Polish authorities conclude.

Due to the nature of the combustibility of grain dust (and seemingly corn in this instance, based on photos of the site), I have a hard time coming to the conclusion that enough explosive force could be generated outward in an open pit, such that it would blow the whole thing out.

We'll see what they say, though.

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A lot of people have egg on their face for saying it was missiles in the beginning. I think a lot of people wanted it to be missiles. Now they have to somehow walk it back. Ukraine is saying 100% that it was not their missile and they want to cooperate with any investigation. To this date, they have not been allowed access to the site to help.

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And the false flag folks.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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torrid said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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So in reality it was Ukraine that fired missiles that landed in Poland, a NATO country, and killed two people.

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Yes, comrade spambot.

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So I called this pretty early on and got some flack by many of you. It seems some of y'all are too quick to disparage any thoughts outside of Russia did it. It's nearly impossible to have meaningful conversations on this board about this Ukraine/Russia conflict without y'all popping up. "Comrade this, comrade that"

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LoudestWHOOP! said:

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Does Ukraine own or have they acquired any of these types of missiles?

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I guess the answer is … YES!

That's a blatant lie. They were launching air defense against Russian missiles. Ukraine did not attack Poland.

Sheesh, it's just as bad as saying Russia deliberately attacked Poland.

Zelenskyy is not a superhero or a friend, despite that Hollywood wants you to think like that.
He wants to drag NATO in a war with Russia for his own benefits 👇👇👇

NATO leaders clash with Zelenskyy over explosion in Poland https://t.co/zU0v8s4yxR

— ZC (@zcstocks) November 21, 2022

Where is the crater????

That video said Zelensky clashed with NATO leaders, but then it said the NATO leader said it wouldn't have happened if russia hadn't sent the missiles in the first place. I guess they just want Zelensky to say "my bad" about it? Just seems a little contradictory back to back.

Russia is will Ferrel, Ukraine is Zach Galifinakis.

FriscoKid said:

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Where is the crater????

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Looks like a grain pit that exploded, and the force of the blast went out toward the top of the photo. I assume all the white in the photo is snow/frost