FriscoKid said:

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How about we just wait for the Polish investigators to make a statement?

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Because that's not fun at all

BattleGrackle said:

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Drunk drivers don't get a pass when they cause an accident. Russia has been acting dangerously for months now. They may have made a mistake and hit a 3rd county, that's not a good excuse

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Then just you and DC only can fight any war over it.

Anyone who would go to war over an accident needs to directly feel the follow-up.

Unlikely in the extreme that this was an attack, and accidents don't trigger NATO's Article 5.

If Russia wanted to start WWIII, it would do more than hit a remote village with two errant missiles.

Cooler heads will prevail.

titan said:

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The bottom line is this is not an attack on Poland. It wouldn't be just two missiles.

It might be an accidental strike on Poland, but there is no malice there. You have to treat it like a collision at sea. Unless of course you want war. Biden has never given the impression he wants peace.

The other example where incidental missile strikes of no military value are used is when you want to draw someone into a war--- like Saddam lobbing Scud missiles into Israel. But Russia has no motive, in fact the opposite, to seek to draw Poland into the war, by extension, directly NATO.

So its clearly an accident, assuming its Russian as indicated.

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Titan got to disagree with you having to treat it like a collision at sea. Maybe it was just a big Russian screwup (assuming that it was a missile attack as indicated). But if russia is going to use weapons like this that they can't control, then Putin should bear full responsibility and should have to go on an ass kissing tour. He needs to kiss NATO's ring to make amends. Or he needs to surrender the weapons he can't control. But you and I both know that even if it was completely intentional, he wouldn't just not take any responsibility. He will lie and blame another nation for it.

Hell, Kim Jong Un can control where his missiles land better, we should expect more from Russia.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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titan said:

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The bottom line is this is not an attack on Poland. It wouldn't be just two missiles.

It might be an accidental strike on Poland, but there is no malice there. You have to treat it like a collision at sea. Unless of course you want war. Biden has never given the impression he wants peace.

The other example where incidental missile strikes of no military value are used is when you want to draw someone into a war--- like Saddam lobbing Scud missiles into Israel. But Russia has no motive, in fact the opposite, to seek to draw Poland into the war, by extension, directly NATO.

So its clearly an accident, assuming its Russian as indicated.

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Titan got to disagree with you having to treat it like a collision at sea. Maybe it was just a big Russian screwup (assuming that it was a missile attack as indicated). But if russia is going to use weapons like this that they can't control, then Putin should bear full responsibility and should have to go on an ass kissing tour. He needs to kiss NATO's ring to make amends. Or he needs to surrender the weapons he can't control.

Hell, Kim Jong Un can control where his missiles land better, we should expect more from Russia.

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Oh, I didn't say there shouldn't be demands made. It just not a deliberate act from the highest level--- it would obviously be larger and more strategic.

TheEternalPessimist said:

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titan said:

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The bottom line is this is not an attack on Poland. It wouldn't be just two missiles.

It might be an accidental strike on Poland, but there is no malice there. You have to treat it like a collision at sea. Unless of course you want war. Biden has never given the impression he wants peace.

The other example where incidental missile strikes of no military value are used is when you want to draw someone into a war--- like Saddam lobbing Scud missiles into Israel. But Russia has no motive, in fact the opposite, to seek to draw Poland into the war, by extension, directly NATO.

So its clearly an accident, assuming its Russian as indicated.

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I agree with your assessment.

But Moscow and Minsk need to issue apologies and clarify this with swift effect.

It is not hyperbole to say that the fate of the civilized world may rely on clearing up intent/accident here.

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Or they'll just say it was a false flag, and they didn't do it. Why own up to it, and issue an apology? The West is already arming their intended victims in Ukraine.

I don't see an upside for Russia to owning it if it was an errant strike, rather than just denying it as Western devilry. That message already has a welcome platform here.

Two people were killed in an explosion at a grain plant in the village of Przewodow, Poland, about four miles north of the Ukrainian border. The cause of the explosion was not immediately clear. https://t.co/9hTRuujcdE

— The New York Times (@nytimes) November 15, 2022

The Russian missile screw-up that ended up killing two Poles will result in NATO invoking article 4 not article 5 (see below). The consultation will probably result in more support for Ukraine, particularly air and anti-air power. Will give Poland some real influence. pic.twitter.com/n92JHvFqGv

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) November 15, 2022

True. If Russia says it's a false flag orchestrated by Zelensky and "the west" there will be plenty of people who readily accept that as the most likely explanation.

Quote:

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I don't see an upside for Russia to owning it if it was an errant strike, rather than just denying it I don't see an upside for Russia to owning it if it was an errant strike, rather than just denying it as Western devilry. That message already has a welcome platform here.

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There is plenty of upside. It would improve their already in tatters standing by a few small points. But potentially helpful. They absolutely need to come clean about what occurred. Even if its a rogue attack, because that would need coordination to get rid of (if a still active agent)

The main thing is to not as another poster indicated, do an Archduke Ferdinand moment over it. Austria has appeared very criminal in retrospect since then on how they handled the demands to Serbia. And France and Russia for their role too.

Problem is, if it is a false flag, they can't help but deny it because they would not have done it. That is what makes them so dangerous incidents.

I mean, it doesn't get much cooler than room temperature.

FriscoKid said:

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How about we just wait for the Polish investigators to make a statement?

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It's just an internet message board. We aren't crafting policy here.

This is what happens when you launch missile barrages at civilian centers on a flight path over the literal border of a neighboring country. Gross disregard for consequences in favor of inflicting maximum civilian terror.

Polish reporter on blasts tonight: My sources in the services say that what hit Przewowo is most likely the remains of a [Russian] rocket shot down by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. https://t.co/h4B8wjgT7U

— Paul Cunningham (@RTENewsPaulC) November 15, 2022

Ah, so Putin will blame Ukraine then for not allowing it to hit in their country. PR issue solved.

Going well for Russia so far.

Russian market collapsed on the news of two missiles landing on the territory of Poland, a NATO member. pic.twitter.com/xzOwAdmkuc

— ТРУХА⚡️English (@TpyxaNews) November 15, 2022

titan said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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titan said:

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The bottom line is this is not an attack on Poland. It wouldn't be just two missiles.

It might be an accidental strike on Poland, but there is no malice there. You have to treat it like a collision at sea. Unless of course you want war. Biden has never given the impression he wants peace.

The other example where incidental missile strikes of no military value are used is when you want to draw someone into a war--- like Saddam lobbing Scud missiles into Israel. But Russia has no motive, in fact the opposite, to seek to draw Poland into the war, by extension, directly NATO.

So its clearly an accident, assuming its Russian as indicated.

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Titan got to disagree with you having to treat it like a collision at sea. Maybe it was just a big Russian screwup (assuming that it was a missile attack as indicated). But if russia is going to use weapons like this that they can't control, then Putin should bear full responsibility and should have to go on an ass kissing tour. He needs to kiss NATO's ring to make amends. Or he needs to surrender the weapons he can't control.

Hell, Kim Jong Un can control where his missiles land better, we should expect more from Russia.

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Oh, I didn't say there shouldn't be demands made. It just not a deliberate act from the highest level--- it would obviously be larger and more strategic.

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It is disconcerting that Putin's weapons are either so old, or so faulty, that using them could end up causing something that would actually bring the rest of the world into the fray.

Another food processing facility hit… hmmmm

Haven't Russian missiles fallen short and/or malfunctioned in Russia proper during their special military operation? It's not hard to fathom a similar mishap here.

Edit - I can see the shot down angle being true too.

Right. And it is appropriate to invoke Article 4. Get a more close in cooperation and know what is going on. It might also deter a bit.

Page …3??? *****

Interesting timing with FTX revelation

Quick! Fire up the distraction machine, all newsrooms full speed ahead!!!

Ernest Tucker said:

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Interesting timing with FTX revelation

Quick! Fire up the distraction machine, all newsrooms full speed ahead!!!

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Ah yes, that could be. Because it is the same place involved--- money laundering through Ukraine.

Believe you have it.

Polish reporter on blasts tonight: My sources in the services say that what hit Przewowo is most likely the remains of a [Russian] rocket shot down by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. https://t.co/h4B8wjgT7U

— Paul Cunningham (@RTENewsPaulC) November 15, 2022

Ernest Tucker said:

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Interesting timing with FTX revelation

Quick! Fire up the distraction machine, all newsrooms full speed ahead!!!

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See, people are primed for Putin to tell them it was us that killed the Poles.

Only one answer. Poland should fire one back. Accident or not Poland cannot let this go.

We have talked extensively over the last many months about how bad Russian tech and weapons are turning out to be. Now we have two malfunctions or two missiles that were shot down hitting Poland and it is the equivalent of Pearl Harbor???? Come on now.

What this may allow NATO to do it put additional pressure on Russia via back channels to close the threat axis from Belarus. That I could see them doing or Poland saying they will shoot down any missile that comes into their airspace or over their country.

Ernest Tucker said:

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Interesting timing with FTX revelation

Quick! Fire up the distraction machine, all newsrooms full speed ahead!!!

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Amazing. Truly amazing. This is why conspiracy theorists run the GOP these days. Everything is a conspiracy. It couldn't be possible that Putin is a giant POS in the middle of an attempted land grab and accidentally launched a missile into a NATO country which is a huge deal. Reality is reality people.. Wake up.

Houstonag said:

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Only one answer. Poland should fire one back. Accident or not Poland cannot let this go.

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NATO should back them up as well. It should be a multi-pronged response to show NATO solidarity.

Another premium member, enlightening us with his wisdom. Welcome to F16.

LoudestWHOOP! said:

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74OA said:

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Unlikely in the extreme that this was an attack, and accidents don't trigger NATO's Article 5.

If Russia wanted to start WWIII, it would do more than hit a remote village with two errant missiles.

Cooler heads will prevail.

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Cooler heads?

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cooler heads not empty heads

DRocks said:

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Ernest Tucker said:

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Interesting timing with FTX revelation

Quick! Fire up the distraction machine, all newsrooms full speed ahead!!!

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Amazing. Truly amazing. This is why conspiracy theorists run the GOP these days. Everything is a conspiracy. It couldn't be possible that Putin is a giant POS in the middle of an attempted land grab and accidentally launched a missile into a NATO country which is a huge deal. Reality is reality people.. Wake up.

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A post on a college football message board caused the GOP to be run by conspiracy theorists?

BadMoonRisin said:

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Another premium member, enlightening us with his wisdom. Welcome to F18.

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What is F18?