I'm surprised China hasn't flexed its muscle on Japan over this. I'm not sure anyone would interview.

Yay. So an article about a guy that says he has photos. I'll hang up and wait for the real thing.

Quote:

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(strong content warning on the link)

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To be clear, this is for the Wiki entry, not the photos. The video does not show any of the Nanking photos.

The most fascinating thing to me, is that the photographer appears to have been an American sailor. How the dickens did he get into Nanking, take the photos, and survive to get them out?

Would be nice if he offered some evidence. Blurred out parts or otherwise. Seems an odd way to hype it up. Why would he need the video to blow up in order to contact a museum? Something doesn't pass the smell test.

Nasreddin said:

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Yay. So an article about a guy that says he has photos. I'll hang up and wait for the real thing.

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It may be a publicity stunt. Or it may be exactly what he says, a set of rare photos that no one knew existed.

He claims to be trying to get historians and museums interested, so it is preserved as it should be. And maybe enlarge his commission on the sale.

We shall see.

Nasreddin said:

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Yay. So an article about a guy that says he has photos. I'll hang up and wait for the real thing.

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If the photos follow historical accounts, they would make a Mayan sacrifice look like a t-ball game.

Y'all need to read the below book, it left such a mark on the author she ended up killing herself. The Japanese did not treat the Chinese like humans. If you are much of a book reader Jocko did a book review of her book, its a tough read or listen either way. The Japanese raped and mutilated everyone from babies to grandmothers, I could go on but you just have to read or listen to the story.

Rape of Nanking

Iris Chang's book about The Rape of Nanking seemingly drove her to despair over the cruelty and inhumanity of it all. She committed suicide.

The US dropped two atomic bombs. We are much, much worser. - yt liberals

It is a tough read. There are pictures in it as well, but maybe these are worse.

Have you listened to the Hardcore history podcast? There is one regarding the Japanese. They were pretty brutal to their enemies.

CDUB98 said:

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I've had a couple of Chinese coworkers open up a little during conversation and they absolutely HATE the Japanese for the atrocities committed during WWII.

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That's pretty much all of Asia. I lived in Korea for over 5 years and they hated them.

My wife is from the Philippines, and I've talked with her grandma about WWII. She was a little girl, but told stories about hiding under the house when the Japanese soldiers came around. She said she knew girls they took away that would never be seen again. She also remembers them indiscriminately killing people.

The Japanese Army during World War 2 were some of the most brutal beings to have existed in history.

Japanese society had a HUGE disconnect during the war, especially against China. It wasn't even a real war to them. Very similar to the "special military operation" ongoing in Ukraine right now. They refused to acknowledge how their China "adventures" truly doomed them. They lost huge amounts of men and material there and had even more tied down. Our campaign was brutal but it could have been so much worse if Japan was not fighting a two front as well.

I actually think the majority of Nanking is fairly well documented in terms of outrages. Anything more these days is just more details. The problem is getting people to care these days.

"Sometimes you have to choke the dog to give him medicine, it's for the dogs own good.

A derail to the thread but apropos to your post

annie88 said:

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Most people are very ignorant of history. Especially the young, and by that I mean younger than me and I am 56.

And of course many of them want to think that white man have been to blame for all the brutality in the world when that is not even close to the truth. It's gone around pretty equally. The world has always been a very brutal place. I only mention that because with a lot of this history being sanitized it isn't coming out.

Japan was on the wrong side of World War II as well that a lot of people brush off this part of history you're talking about now because of that, or they don't look past it.

Of course what the Russians did when they invaded Germany and Berlin at the end of World War II was pretty bad too.

There's also another thing related to this called comfort women. Pretty nasty stuff.

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It's true that history has always been brutal, and that Europeans/white people are not anywhere near a disproportionate cause of it.

I think my favorite factoid is that more Chinese people have died in Chinese civil wars than the rest of humanity's wars combined. (It helps that there are just a lot of Chinese available to kill, and there have been for centuries. I think that Stalin killed a greater percentage of his country's population than Mao did, but Mao had a lot more Chinese available to kill.)

A couple of books that I've read on the decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan state that between 200,000-250,000 civilians were dying in Japanese occupied Asia every month that the war continued. That wasn't a factor in the decision - that was based almost entirely on trying to end the war as quickly as possible with minimum loss of Allied lives. But in any post-war judgement, it has to be considered.

Nasreddin said:

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Yay. So an article about a guy that says he has photos. I'll hang up and wait for the real thing.

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Um seriously, you've never heard of the rape of Nanking? You're suggesting this didn't happen?

Or You think there were no photos taken?

Irish 2.0 said:

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This pawn shop owner claims he received a photo album with never-before-seen photos of the Japanese "Rape of Nanking" in WWII

Many in Japan will straight up deny that this ever happened. They've destroyed and burried every bit of evidence that they could on it.

Quote:

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This man claims he has actual photos from the Rape of Nanking (strong content warning on the link), one of the most gruesome and brutal historical events ever where Japanese soldiers raped tens of thousands of Chinese women and took turns chopping off the heads of men for sport and threw them in mass graves.

Photos are rare, they were often destroyed, and many in Japan refuse to acknowledge the event and deny it ever happened.

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That was Japan of 80 years ago, and it was despicable.

That is not the Japan of today.

Why must we beat a culture and a people down with a guilt stick for 100 years?

Something kind of odd here, for what it is claiming to be. Album is in English too. Should be in kanji.

Especially for such a work that would be the equivalent of a German Einsatzgruppen album.

The other thing, but it may be he just doesn't know, is no one credible denies it on basis of a `lack of photos' -- there are actually are many and very harrowing photos of it. Think of the similar snapshots of the Holocaust.

Its true you don't see on the Internet much, but that has nothing to do with what is published, only what someone has uploaded. There are hardback volumes that do chronicle it.

Also, there are two sides, even to this. Its not realized that the Chinese of the time also did not take prisoners. It was too almost equally brutal warrior cultures fighting each other.

Chiang Kai-shek didn't hesitate to sacrifice thousands of Chinese towns by blowing river dykes to slow a Japanese advance at one time.

This book is a must read for any even mildly interested in the true character of the Sino-Japanese War. Unbelievable stuff.

"Tower of Skulls"
https://www.amazon.com/Tower-Skulls-History-Asia-Pacific-1937-May/dp/1324002107/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MZTLRYEG3A92&keywords=tower+of+skulls+by+richard+b.+frank&qid=1662069232&s=books&sprefix=richard+frank%2Cstripbooks%2C251&sr=1-1

Y'all should read up on what the Mongols did

TheEternalPessimist said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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This pawn shop owner claims he received a photo album with never-before-seen photos of the Japanese "Rape of Nanking" in WWII

Many in Japan will straight up deny that this ever happened. They've destroyed and burried every bit of evidence that they could on it.

Quote:

---

This man claims he has actual photos from the Rape of Nanking (strong content warning on the link), one of the most gruesome and brutal historical events ever where Japanese soldiers raped tens of thousands of Chinese women and took turns chopping off the heads of men for sport and threw them in mass graves.

Photos are rare, they were often destroyed, and many in Japan refuse to acknowledge the event and deny it ever happened.

---

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That was Japan of 80 years ago, and it was despicable.

That is not the Japan of today.

Why must we beat a culture and a people down with a guilt stick for 100 years?

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Remembering the atrocities of history is not "beating a culture and a people down with a guilt stick". I should also point out that Japan was never really held to account for their war crimes. There were a few heads that rolled, some specifically for their actions in Nanking, but they were largely let off the hook. Specifically, the emperor's son was given immunity, and he was a big participant and driver of the Rape of Nanking.

In addition to remembering history, I have no problems beating down the culture of 1930s-40s Japan, as it is one of the most brutal and evil regimes in human history. The same can be said for 30s-40s Germany and most communist regimes over the past 100+ years.

titan said:

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Something kind of odd here, for what it is claiming to be. Album is in English too. Should be in kanji.

Especially for such a work that would be the equivalent of a German Einsatzgruppen album.

The other thing, but it may be he just doesn't know, is no one credible denies it on basis of a `lack of photos' -- there are actually are many and very harrowing photos of it. Think of the similar snapshots of the Holocaust.

Its true you don't see on the Internet much, but that has nothing to do with what is published, only what someone has uploaded. There are hardback volumes that do chronicle it.

Also, there are two sides, even to this. Its not realized that the Chinese of the time also did not take prisoners. It was too almost equally brutal warrior cultures fighting each other.

Chiang Kai-shek didn't hesitate to sacrifice thousands of Chinese towns by blowing river dykes to slow a Japanese advance at one time.

This book is a must read for any even mildly interested in the true character of the Sino-Japanese War. Unbelievable stuff.

"Tower of Skulls"
https://www.amazon.com/Tower-Skulls-History-Asia-Pacific-1937-May/dp/1324002107/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MZTLRYEG3A92&keywords=tower+of+skulls+by+richard+b.+frank&qid=1662069232&s=books&sprefix=richard+frank%2Cstripbooks%2C251&sr=1-1

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Thanks for the book rec. I have it ordered now. I went on a somewhat deep dive (for an American at least) on the China war a coupla years back and somehow missed that volume.

When the Asiatic people go to war, horrible atrocities follow that make even heartless monsters like myself flinch.

Every. Single. Time.

annie88 said:

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Nasreddin said:

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Yay. So an article about a guy that says he has photos. I'll hang up and wait for the real thing.

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Um seriously, you've never heard of the rape of Nanking? You're suggesting this didn't happen?

Or You think there were no photos taken?

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Iris Chang's book titled The Rape of Nanking had a lot of horrific photos in it including using Chinese women for bayonet practice after they had nearly been raped to death and beheading contests between officers competing with their katanas. I am sure that this album contains more of the same and perhaps worse. There is no doubt whatsoever that the rape of Nanking happened and was on a scale of attrocities in a confined urban area not seen since the sack of Magdeburg in 1631 (https://www.ourbloodyhistory.com/p/sack-magdeburg).

Though not confined to a specific city like Nanking, Jonah Goldhagen's book titled Hitler's Willing Executioners includes voluminous documentation of industrial scale killings conducted by German police battalions of reservies in Poland and Ukriane and dispels claims that it was just the SS engaged in the mass murder of civilians.