So has anyone here bought multiple guns at a single purchase and have the ATF show up at their door to see them?

BQ78 said:

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So has anyone here bought multiple guns at a single purchase and have the ATF show up at their door to see them?

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I purchased multiple guns a few years ago, but the ATF did not come knocking.

BQ78 said:

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So has anyone here bought multiple guns at a single purchase and have the ATF show up at their door to see them?

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Nope. I've done this at least 10 times in last 5-6 years at different stores.

I bought three guns on the same day at a gun show last year, and then another gun at a different gun show a month later. No ATF missionaries have knocked on my door.

exp said:

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I'm not interested in getting on the ATFs bad side so I wouldn't be rude with him. I'd probably try to engage the guy in a conversation about constitutional rights while politely declining his request.

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I'm sure that will go well. Argue the law with a cop.

So what was really going on there?

AgNav93 said:

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exp said:

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I'm not interested in getting on the ATFs bad side so I wouldn't be rude with him. I'd probably try to engage the guy in a conversation about constitutional rights while politely declining his request.

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I'm sure that will go well. Argue the law with a cop.

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Alot of cops don't know the actual law.

Alot of cops will stretch the law.

For example:

If you open your door and the police don't have a warrant but they claim that you opened the door wide enough that they saw something that COULD indicate a crime had taken place or was taking place even if they don't think ur the perp they can come in and search your house from top to bottom.

It happens. But courts have also ruled that failure to voluntarily comply with requests to enter your home or your vehicle are not actions which constitute probable cause.

Be respectful. Engage minimally. Don't talk to them. Don't give them an opening. Don't allow them to search your stuff without a warrant.

Also I am not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Do your own research.

exp said:

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Can you actually demand a supervising officer?

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I have been told multiple times if they want to search your car but have no probable cause or want you to exit your vehicle, tell the police that you have every intention of complying but that you demand a supervising officer be present for the search.

This is assuming they don't have guns drawn on you and suspect you of being armed and dangerous.

If it's a routine stop and they ask you to exit the vehicle casually I have been told the smart thing to do is ask what their probable cause is.

And then if they have it, inform them that you have every intention of complying once they have a supervising officer on the scene. This reduces the odds of evidence planting.

Once again I am not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Do your own research.

I thought we were just supposed to cooperate with cops and do what they say even if they're wrong? What happened to that? Is that only when they're pointing guns?

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If it's a routine stop and they ask you to exit the vehicle casually I have been told the smart thing to do is ask what their probable cause is.

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They'll give it to you before you even ask.

"I smell alcohol on your breath."
"I smell weed coming from the vehicle."

They'll even get a dog to "alert" to the presence of drugs.

I just naturally assumed it was someone using a Red Flag law, which is what will always happen.

The fact that someone purchased a gun, or several, and the ATF just randomly shows up, is to be expected from our Dem overlords. What's really funny is the ignorant fools on the Left are so happy and genuinely believe nothing like that could ever happen to them.

Maybe not with guns, but everything else is fair game. What fools who can't think beyond their emotions.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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If it's a routine stop and they ask you to exit the vehicle casually I have been told the smart thing to do is ask what their probable cause is.

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They'll give it to you before you even ask.

"I smell alcohol on your breath."
"I smell weed coming from the vehicle."

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Or they get a dog to sniff your trunk and have it sit.

"Sir, the dog has alerted on your vehicle."

They showed up with his gun list and a previous or new background check?

Looks like a red flag law test visit to me.

Politely decline per my constitutional rights. Offer them lemonade or bottled water and to come back when they have a warrant. Have lawyer ready for immediate contact if they return with a warrant.

That line about were only here to see serial # then we're are gone is a lie. And as someone pointed out, why would he bother to mention the citation for being stopped somewhere previously?

And why visit with several armed cops or LEOs?

If this really is a voluntary procedural check, why did they bring guns?

I may have missed it, but what is the backstory here? Anyone know why these fellas ended up at Joe Random's house?

ABATTBQ11 said:

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I thought we were just supposed to cooperate with cops and do what they say even if they're wrong? What happened to that? Is that only when they're pointing guns?

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That's the way I was looking at it. If it's part of an investigation and I can help clarify something, I would have no problem helping them. I don't understand what's bad about the situation.

If there's one reason to oppose background checks, it's this. They get a list of everything you buy from a gun dealer. I'd be much more supportive of background checks if there was zero paper trail after it was passed.

Aggie Joe 93 said:

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And why visit with several armed cops or LEOs?

If this really is a voluntary procedural check, why did they bring guns?

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A cop on duty is required to carry?

So how did they know he made a stop in Philadelphia? Was he under surveillance? Presumably they would need a warrant for that information unless it was made publicly available via social media.

I haven't read the entire thread and don't know the backstory, but just wanted to enter this as a possible explanation:

A gun gets used in the commission of a crime. The gun gets traced back as sold by the manufacturer to/through a certain FFL, these guys show up at his shop and demand to inspect his records (he has to comply). In inspecting his records, they notice this gun was sold to Person A, along with a whole host of other guns. Person A is not an FFL but is apparently selling guns including selling guns to original criminal actor. This is a violation of Federal Law, selling for business without a license. ATF thinks FFL is in violation of Federal Law for knowingly transferring guns which he had reason to know were going to be sold (straw purchase or otherwise). In looking at FFL's records they also notice Person B (Ring Camera Guy) is acquiring voluminous weapons as well. In order to build case against FFL and/or Person A, ATF goes to talk to all folks who bought multiple firearms through FFL.

Agreed that I don't want ATF showing up at my door asking about my guns, but I think there are scenarios where this might happen as a result of good law enforcement activity.

GeorgiAg said:

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Just need to check your guns, real quick, not a big deal.

Oh, ok. Sure come do that.

Whoa? What's this rifle? You got a full stock on this? That's an SBR. You have a tax stamp?

"Oops, I was just cleaning my guns and put the wrong one on. Here, let me change it back. Sorry. "

Put your hands where I can see them - You are under arrest. Officer Smith, please take all the guns into custody. Congratulations, son, you're gonna be a felon. No more guns for you.

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Why would anyone show them a safe full of guns if they are only asking to see two of them?

If you're going to show them, tall them to wait outside and you'll bring the two they want to see outside with the chamber/slide open with no magazine (so everyone is comfortable).

ALSO, regarding the number purchased, IS ANYONE READING ALL THE POSTS?

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FTAG 2000
9:26a

AG

I think there's a rule that if you buy more than five firearms in 48 hours you could get a visit from ATF. this guy bought seven.

Not a fan of the ATF but it's understandable why he got visited.

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I have a feeling there is much, much more to this story.

torrid said:

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I have a feeling there is much, much more to this story.

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nope. Just government overreach.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/knock-knock-video-shows-atf-straw-purchase-task-force-asking-to-see-delaware-homeowners-guns/

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The Resident Agent in Charge of ATF's Wilmington, Delaware field office did not return calls seeking comment for this story.
Similarly, public information officers at both ATF's Baltimore Field Division and Washington D.C. headquarters did not return calls or emails seeking comment. This lack of accountability is certainly nothing new for the ATF.
Delaware State Police was also unwilling to discuss this investigation.
Neither Delaware State Police PIO supervisor Sgt. India Sturgis nor Superintendent Col. Melissa Zebley were willing to be interviewed for this story.

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MousepadMarauder said:

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I haven't read the entire thread and don't know the backstory, but just wanted to enter this as a possible explanation:

A gun gets used in the commission of a crime. The gun gets traced back as sold by the manufacturer to/through a certain FFL, these guys show up at his shop and demand to inspect his records (he has to comply). In inspecting his records, they notice this gun was sold to Person A, along with a whole host of other guns. Person A is not an FFL but is apparently selling guns including selling guns to original criminal actor. This is a violation of Federal Law, selling for business without a license. ATF thinks FFL is in violation of Federal Law for knowingly transferring guns which he had reason to know were going to be sold (straw purchase or otherwise). In looking at FFL's records they also notice Person B (Ring Camera Guy) is acquiring voluminous weapons as well. In order to build case against FFL and/or Person A, ATF goes to talk to all folks who bought multiple firearms through FFL.

Agreed that I don't want ATF showing up at my door asking about my guns, but I think there are scenarios where this might happen as a result of good law enforcement activity.

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And if this was the case, getting a warrant would make a lot more sense than a knock and talk for ensuring that all of the evidence was collected correctly and avoiding additional misunderstandings while also making it appear as legitimate instead of bullying.

oldyeller said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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I think there's a rule that if you buy more than five firearms in 48 hours you could get a visit from ATF. this guy bought seven.

Not a fan of the ATF but it's understandable why he got visited.

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If it's a rule, then the rule should stipulate that a judge be notified to authorize a warrant for the search and confirmation. The guy passed the NICS background check, twice in this case it would seem, so beyond he bought more than some arbitrary limit during some arbitrary time period, what provides the basis for such a heavy handed visit as displayed in this video? This isn't Andy Taylor knocking on the door with Barney Fife watching his back, these are guys in vests and clearly operating as if the guy is a suspected criminal simply because he engaged in a lawful activity.

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In their defense, they can't know if his activity is lawful or not before they actually talk to him. Until he opens the door, he could be a violent meth dealer for all they know.

Now, they should have a warrant, and simply buying a bunch of guns should not be grounds for said warrant, but they do have the right to ask without said warrant and be prepared for unknown individuals while asking.