texagbeliever said:

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dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

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dermdoc said:

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texagbeliever said:

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People who should admit they were wrong are those who claimed:

1. Vaccine was effective at reducing transmission or infection
2. Vaccine was safe
3. Masks reduce the spread of covid
4. Isolation/shutting down the country is an appropriate way of reacting to a virus outbreak
5. People who accused individuals of being selfish for not getting vaccinated especially younger people
6. Anyone who pushed for vaccination of children
7. Anyone who contributed to fear stats that children were overwhelming hospital systems with covid (when covid was just something they had but not the reason for admission nor the reason for the stay).
8. People who encouraged policies that isolated the hospitalized/nursing home individuals from outside interaction.
9. People who supported/went along with their company enforcing vaccine mandates
10. People who call the covid vaccine a vaccine when reality is it is at best a therapeutic.

All of the above was wrong. I'm not saying it was knowable all the above was wrong when decisions had to be made; I'm just saying it is knowable now.

It is also worth noting the BEST thing an individual could do to reduce hospitalization/death was:
1. Improve diet (lose weight)
2. Exercise
3. Get sunlight
4. Sleep appropriate amounts.
5. Reduce alcohol/drug consumption
6. Healthy human interaction

All of the above if encouraged would have had a way bigger impact on reducing death. Yet our political leaders at the behest of doctors: shut down gyms, closed churches, made people mask up, isolated the elderly, closed playgrounds, instituted curfews, etc.

---

How do you know #1 for a fact. Glad to be educated if you have a link.

And, IMHO, #2 is to be determined unless you have a link to stats on large study groups.

---

Plenty of viral load studies have demonstrated the vaccinated aren't less likely to spread.
Based on the fact that every vaccinated person i know has caught covid the effectiveness is non-existent. I didn't think educated persons argued about whether or not it prevented infection.

---

Aren't less likely to spread is totally different than whether it prevents some from getting it. And anecdotal stories are just that, anecdotal stories. I have a ton also.

And nice snide comment.

---

My educated comment was serious. I have yet to encounter someone who makes that argument after June of 2022. The president of my company even ceded point 1 when he was trying to convince me to get vaccinated. His argument was more of the it might reduce the risk of hospitalization/death which is a valid concern for the company because of the disruption of business. Now I don't interact with doctors so maybe they don't. The world outside of that doesn't though.

---

You do not have to interact with doctors to know what they think. And the studies on why they do.

A quick Google search shows what places like the Mayo Clinic, University of Pennsylvania, the Texas Medical Center, and on and on.

Are you saying all these esteemed medical schools were in on some kind of conspiracy? Why may I ask?

And when you say 6/2022 I would agree with you. If you say 1/21, I would not.

So we disagree.

But to say no educated person disagrees with you is very disingenuous. Especially when the vax first came out.

dermdoc said:

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texagbeliever said:

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dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

People who should admit they were wrong are those who claimed:

1. Vaccine was effective at reducing transmission or infection
2. Vaccine was safe
3. Masks reduce the spread of covid
4. Isolation/shutting down the country is an appropriate way of reacting to a virus outbreak
5. People who accused individuals of being selfish for not getting vaccinated especially younger people
6. Anyone who pushed for vaccination of children
7. Anyone who contributed to fear stats that children were overwhelming hospital systems with covid (when covid was just something they had but not the reason for admission nor the reason for the stay).
8. People who encouraged policies that isolated the hospitalized/nursing home individuals from outside interaction.
9. People who supported/went along with their company enforcing vaccine mandates
10. People who call the covid vaccine a vaccine when reality is it is at best a therapeutic.

All of the above was wrong. I'm not saying it was knowable all the above was wrong when decisions had to be made; I'm just saying it is knowable now.

It is also worth noting the BEST thing an individual could do to reduce hospitalization/death was:
1. Improve diet (lose weight)
2. Exercise
3. Get sunlight
4. Sleep appropriate amounts.
5. Reduce alcohol/drug consumption
6. Healthy human interaction

All of the above if encouraged would have had a way bigger impact on reducing death. Yet our political leaders at the behest of doctors: shut down gyms, closed churches, made people mask up, isolated the elderly, closed playgrounds, instituted curfews, etc.

---

How do you know #1 for a fact. Glad to be educated if you have a link.

And, IMHO, #2 is to be determined unless you have a link to stats on large study groups.

---

Plenty of viral load studies have demonstrated the vaccinated aren't less likely to spread.
Based on the fact that every vaccinated person i know has caught covid the effectiveness is non-existent. I didn't think educated persons argued about whether or not it prevented infection.

---

Aren't less likely to spread is totally different than whether it prevents some from getting it. And anecdotal stories are just that, anecdotal stories. I have a ton also.

And nice snide comment.

---

My educated comment was serious. I have yet to encounter someone who makes that argument after June of 2022. The president of my company even ceded point 1 when he was trying to convince me to get vaccinated. His argument was more of the it might reduce the risk of hospitalization/death which is a valid concern for the company because of the disruption of business. Now I don't interact with doctors so maybe they don't. The world outside of that doesn't though.

---

You do not have to interact with doctors to know what they think. And the studies on why they do.

A quick Google search shows what places like the Mayo Clinic, University of Pennsylvania, the Texas Medical Center, and on and on.

Are you saying all these esteemed medical schools were in on some kind of conspiracy? Why may I ask?

And when you say 6/2022 I would agree with you. If you say 1/21, I would not.

So we disagree.

But to say no educated person disagrees with you is very disingenuous. Especially when the vax first came out.

---

Yes that doesn't surprise me. I would expect those pristine hospital systems to have pruned dissention from their ranks when covid was more of a crapshoot then science. They wanted a unified stance. After such pruning leadership will be stubborn to admit being wrong. Both for financial liability but also pride. That is the way the real world works. It isn't data that influences people it is their pride, ego and dollar bills.

We all saw what happened.

We all saw it.

It's pretty easy for big pharma to do what they do when people have been so conditioned to it.

The U. S. Is about 3% of the world's population, yet we consume about 50% of the world's pharmaceuticals.

Quote:

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A quick Google search shows what places like the Mayo Clinic, University of Pennsylvania, the Texas Medical Center, and on and on.

Are you saying all these esteemed medical schools were in on some kind of conspiracy? Why may I ask?

---

Quick Google search shows the Mayo clinic to be a primary beneficiary of COVID funds

AgPrognosticator said:

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fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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I think all the posters on here should become doctors and solve all these transgressions.

I am confident all of y'all could do better than us.

Carry on

---

Dr.. we are simply asking that you guys acknowledge the new facts coming out. We are all tired of hearing the MSM ( and many Drs ) sweep the facts under the rug.. some of this information coming out is terrible. I have a good friend that just had heart surgery.. he started having heart issues after the 1st booster … this doesn't sit well with some of us

---

Before you say, "acknowledge the news facts", why don't you show us these "facts"?

Do you have mortality tables that you can share with us? Do you have any data that is not anecdotal? I'm genuinely interested. Would love to see new facts.

I've heard the stories about people I knew that passed away within close proximity to taking the vaccine, but I am unaware of people with the onset of conditions ostensibly brought on by the vaccine(s). Do share.

---

Hey BRO… if you want the data go look it up it's there .. sick of all the goal tenders protecting these Lousy so-called vaccines

dermdoc said:

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texagbeliever said:

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dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

dermdoc said:

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texagbeliever said:

---

People who should admit they were wrong are those who claimed:

1. Vaccine was effective at reducing transmission or infection
2. Vaccine was safe
3. Masks reduce the spread of covid
4. Isolation/shutting down the country is an appropriate way of reacting to a virus outbreak
5. People who accused individuals of being selfish for not getting vaccinated especially younger people
6. Anyone who pushed for vaccination of children
7. Anyone who contributed to fear stats that children were overwhelming hospital systems with covid (when covid was just something they had but not the reason for admission nor the reason for the stay).
8. People who encouraged policies that isolated the hospitalized/nursing home individuals from outside interaction.
9. People who supported/went along with their company enforcing vaccine mandates
10. People who call the covid vaccine a vaccine when reality is it is at best a therapeutic.

All of the above was wrong. I'm not saying it was knowable all the above was wrong when decisions had to be made; I'm just saying it is knowable now.

It is also worth noting the BEST thing an individual could do to reduce hospitalization/death was:
1. Improve diet (lose weight)
2. Exercise
3. Get sunlight
4. Sleep appropriate amounts.
5. Reduce alcohol/drug consumption
6. Healthy human interaction

All of the above if encouraged would have had a way bigger impact on reducing death. Yet our political leaders at the behest of doctors: shut down gyms, closed churches, made people mask up, isolated the elderly, closed playgrounds, instituted curfews, etc.

---

How do you know #1 for a fact. Glad to be educated if you have a link.

And, IMHO, #2 is to be determined unless you have a link to stats on large study groups.

---

Plenty of viral load studies have demonstrated the vaccinated aren't less likely to spread.
Based on the fact that every vaccinated person i know has caught covid the effectiveness is non-existent. I didn't think educated persons argued about whether or not it prevented infection.

---

Aren't less likely to spread is totally different than whether it prevents some from getting it. And anecdotal stories are just that, anecdotal stories. I have a ton also.

And nice snide comment.

---

My educated comment was serious. I have yet to encounter someone who makes that argument after June of 2022. The president of my company even ceded point 1 when he was trying to convince me to get vaccinated. His argument was more of the it might reduce the risk of hospitalization/death which is a valid concern for the company because of the disruption of business. Now I don't interact with doctors so maybe they don't. The world outside of that doesn't though.

---

You do not have to interact with doctors to know what they think. And the studies on why they do.

A quick Google search shows what places like the Mayo Clinic, University of Pennsylvania, the Texas Medical Center, and on and on.

Are you saying all these esteemed medical schools were in on some kind of conspiracy? Why may I ask?

And when you say 6/2022 I would agree with you. If you say 1/21, I would not.

So we disagree.

But to say no educated person disagrees with you is very disingenuous. Especially when the vax first came out.

---

Here is maybe a better response.

Think about Universal healthcare vs Market based healthcare. If you go to all the top universities and polled the economic professors you would get overwhelming support for universal healthcare. Yet you wouldn't advocate for that. Do you suppose to know more than the PHD economic professors? No. So what is the best explanation, that the process of becoming a PHD economic professor has a weed out mechanism that discriminates against those with a free market view. That is what is I'd propose is happening at top hospital systems

Quote:

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Oh you mean the vaccine that was available just in time for Delta/Omicron at least 2 significant mutations from the version the vaccine was originally developed to fight against. Yeah it might have been effective versus the original strain but it was too slow.

---

And the Fall Boosters against BA4 and BA5 will also be at least one strain behind what ever is spreading in the Fall. So they will have little or no useful effect. But, so many people will line up to get their Fall Booster in order to be safe and protected.

The vax in the Fall will also be rushed and released on another Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) due to the general lack of long term testing of these mRNA vaccines in humans against a constantly mutating novel virus.

This chasing of last seasons virus with vaccines is a fools errand that just might have very bad long term side effects. I guess we will see what happens though.

fullback44 said:

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AgPrognosticator said:

---

fullback44 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

I think all the posters on here should become doctors and solve all these transgressions.

I am confident all of y'all could do better than us.

Carry on

---

Dr.. we are simply asking that you guys acknowledge the new facts coming out. We are all tired of hearing the MSM ( and many Drs ) sweep the facts under the rug.. some of this information coming out is terrible. I have a good friend that just had heart surgery.. he started having heart issues after the 1st booster … this doesn't sit well with some of us

---

Before you say, "acknowledge the news facts", why don't you show us these "facts"?

Do you have mortality tables that you can share with us? Do you have any data that is not anecdotal? I'm genuinely interested. Would love to see new facts.

I've heard the stories about people I knew that passed away within close proximity to taking the vaccine, but I am unaware of people with the onset of conditions ostensibly brought on by the vaccine(s). Do share.

---

Hey BRO… if you want the data go look it up it's there .. sick of all the goal tenders protecting these Lousy so-called vaccines

---

I am not goal tending for anyone.

And definitely not "protecting" a vaccine.

texagbeliever said:

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dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

People who should admit they were wrong are those who claimed:

1. Vaccine was effective at reducing transmission or infection
2. Vaccine was safe
3. Masks reduce the spread of covid
4. Isolation/shutting down the country is an appropriate way of reacting to a virus outbreak
5. People who accused individuals of being selfish for not getting vaccinated especially younger people
6. Anyone who pushed for vaccination of children
7. Anyone who contributed to fear stats that children were overwhelming hospital systems with covid (when covid was just something they had but not the reason for admission nor the reason for the stay).
8. People who encouraged policies that isolated the hospitalized/nursing home individuals from outside interaction.
9. People who supported/went along with their company enforcing vaccine mandates
10. People who call the covid vaccine a vaccine when reality is it is at best a therapeutic.

All of the above was wrong. I'm not saying it was knowable all the above was wrong when decisions had to be made; I'm just saying it is knowable now.

It is also worth noting the BEST thing an individual could do to reduce hospitalization/death was:
1. Improve diet (lose weight)
2. Exercise
3. Get sunlight
4. Sleep appropriate amounts.
5. Reduce alcohol/drug consumption
6. Healthy human interaction

All of the above if encouraged would have had a way bigger impact on reducing death. Yet our political leaders at the behest of doctors: shut down gyms, closed churches, made people mask up, isolated the elderly, closed playgrounds, instituted curfews, etc.

---

How do you know #1 for a fact. Glad to be educated if you have a link.

And, IMHO, #2 is to be determined unless you have a link to stats on large study groups.

---

Plenty of viral load studies have demonstrated the vaccinated aren't less likely to spread.
Based on the fact that every vaccinated person i know has caught covid the effectiveness is non-existent. I didn't think educated persons argued about whether or not it prevented infection.

---

Aren't less likely to spread is totally different than whether it prevents some from getting it. And anecdotal stories are just that, anecdotal stories. I have a ton also.

And nice snide comment.

---

My educated comment was serious. I have yet to encounter someone who makes that argument after June of 2022. The president of my company even ceded point 1 when he was trying to convince me to get vaccinated. His argument was more of the it might reduce the risk of hospitalization/death which is a valid concern for the company because of the disruption of business. Now I don't interact with doctors so maybe they don't. The world outside of that doesn't though.

---

You do not have to interact with doctors to know what they think. And the studies on why they do.

A quick Google search shows what places like the Mayo Clinic, University of Pennsylvania, the Texas Medical Center, and on and on.

Are you saying all these esteemed medical schools were in on some kind of conspiracy? Why may I ask?

And when you say 6/2022 I would agree with you. If you say 1/21, I would not.

So we disagree.

But to say no educated person disagrees with you is very disingenuous. Especially when the vax first came out.

---

Yes that doesn't surprise me. I would expect those pristine hospital systems to have pruned dissention from their ranks when covid was more of a crapshoot then science. They wanted a unified stance. After such pruning leadership will be stubborn to admit being wrong. Both for financial liability but also pride. That is the way the real world works. It isn't data that influences people it is their pride, ego and dollar bills.

---

And you would be so wrong on basically all your projections about medicine at the med schools.

Extremely competitive and open minded. Most only concerned about the welfare of their patients.

You have created a projection in your mind to feed your biases.

The reality is totally different. You even stated you do not interact with docs, correct? How do you "know" all this stuff? Do you have links to where what you are saying is happening is actually occurring? Why would the "weeded out" docs not go public?

And I greatly admire docs who go against the grain like Dr. McCullough and love academic debate. Not a fan of conspiracy theories.

And I am conservative as they come.

fullback44 said:

---

AgPrognosticator said:

---

fullback44 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

I think all the posters on here should become doctors and solve all these transgressions.

I am confident all of y'all could do better than us.

Carry on

---

Dr.. we are simply asking that you guys acknowledge the new facts coming out. We are all tired of hearing the MSM ( and many Drs ) sweep the facts under the rug.. some of this information coming out is terrible. I have a good friend that just had heart surgery.. he started having heart issues after the 1st booster … this doesn't sit well with some of us

---

Before you say, "acknowledge the news facts", why don't you show us these "facts"?

Do you have mortality tables that you can share with us? Do you have any data that is not anecdotal? I'm genuinely interested. Would love to see new facts.

I've heard the stories about people I knew that passed away within close proximity to taking the vaccine, but I am unaware of people with the onset of conditions ostensibly brought on by the vaccine(s). Do share.

---

Hey BRO… if you want the data go look it up it's there .. sick of all the goal tenders protecting these Lousy so-called vaccines

---

You don't know me or my view of the vaccine.

Your failure to respond to a simple question and to instead attack someone you don't even know is disconcerting.

texagbeliever said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

People who should admit they were wrong are those who claimed:

1. Vaccine was effective at reducing transmission or infection
2. Vaccine was safe
3. Masks reduce the spread of covid
4. Isolation/shutting down the country is an appropriate way of reacting to a virus outbreak
5. People who accused individuals of being selfish for not getting vaccinated especially younger people
6. Anyone who pushed for vaccination of children
7. Anyone who contributed to fear stats that children were overwhelming hospital systems with covid (when covid was just something they had but not the reason for admission nor the reason for the stay).
8. People who encouraged policies that isolated the hospitalized/nursing home individuals from outside interaction.
9. People who supported/went along with their company enforcing vaccine mandates
10. People who call the covid vaccine a vaccine when reality is it is at best a therapeutic.

All of the above was wrong. I'm not saying it was knowable all the above was wrong when decisions had to be made; I'm just saying it is knowable now.

It is also worth noting the BEST thing an individual could do to reduce hospitalization/death was:
1. Improve diet (lose weight)
2. Exercise
3. Get sunlight
4. Sleep appropriate amounts.
5. Reduce alcohol/drug consumption
6. Healthy human interaction

All of the above if encouraged would have had a way bigger impact on reducing death. Yet our political leaders at the behest of doctors: shut down gyms, closed churches, made people mask up, isolated the elderly, closed playgrounds, instituted curfews, etc.

---

How do you know #1 for a fact. Glad to be educated if you have a link.

And, IMHO, #2 is to be determined unless you have a link to stats on large study groups.

---

Plenty of viral load studies have demonstrated the vaccinated aren't less likely to spread.
Based on the fact that every vaccinated person i know has caught covid the effectiveness is non-existent. I didn't think educated persons argued about whether or not it prevented infection.

---

Aren't less likely to spread is totally different than whether it prevents some from getting it. And anecdotal stories are just that, anecdotal stories. I have a ton also.

And nice snide comment.

---

My educated comment was serious. I have yet to encounter someone who makes that argument after June of 2022. The president of my company even ceded point 1 when he was trying to convince me to get vaccinated. His argument was more of the it might reduce the risk of hospitalization/death which is a valid concern for the company because of the disruption of business. Now I don't interact with doctors so maybe they don't. The world outside of that doesn't though.

---

You do not have to interact with doctors to know what they think. And the studies on why they do.

A quick Google search shows what places like the Mayo Clinic, University of Pennsylvania, the Texas Medical Center, and on and on.

Are you saying all these esteemed medical schools were in on some kind of conspiracy? Why may I ask?

And when you say 6/2022 I would agree with you. If you say 1/21, I would not.

So we disagree.

But to say no educated person disagrees with you is very disingenuous. Especially when the vax first came out.

---

Here is maybe a better response.

Think about Universal healthcare vs Market based healthcare. If you go to all the top universities and polled the economic professors you would get overwhelming support for universal healthcare. Yet you wouldn't advocate for that. Do you suppose to know more than the PHD economic professors? No. So what is the best explanation, that the process of becoming a PHD economic professor has a weed out mechanism that discriminates against those with a free market view. That is what is I'd propose is happening at top hospital systems

---

its all political. the truth on vaccines is somewhere in the middle.

AgPrognosticator said:

---

fullback44 said:

---

AgPrognosticator said:

---

fullback44 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

I think all the posters on here should become doctors and solve all these transgressions.

I am confident all of y'all could do better than us.

Carry on

---

Dr.. we are simply asking that you guys acknowledge the new facts coming out. We are all tired of hearing the MSM ( and many Drs ) sweep the facts under the rug.. some of this information coming out is terrible. I have a good friend that just had heart surgery.. he started having heart issues after the 1st booster … this doesn't sit well with some of us

---

Before you say, "acknowledge the news facts", why don't you show us these "facts"?

Do you have mortality tables that you can share with us? Do you have any data that is not anecdotal? I'm genuinely interested. Would love to see new facts.

I've heard the stories about people I knew that passed away within close proximity to taking the vaccine, but I am unaware of people with the onset of conditions ostensibly brought on by the vaccine(s). Do share.

---

Hey BRO… if you want the data go look it up it's there .. sick of all the goal tenders protecting these Lousy so-called vaccines

---

You don't know me or my view of the vaccine.

Your failure to respond to a simple question and to instead attack someone you don't even know is disconcerting.

---

Lol.. don't get mad fella

PaulC_80 said:

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Quote:

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Oh you mean the vaccine that was available just in time for Delta/Omicron at least 2 significant mutations from the version the vaccine was originally developed to fight against. Yeah it might have been effective versus the original strain but it was too slow.

---

And the Fall Boosters against BA4 and BA5 will also be at least one strain behind what ever is spreading in the Fall. So they will have little or no useful effect. But, so many people will line up to get their Fall Booster in order to be safe and protected.

The vax in the Fall will also be rushed and released on another Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) due to the general lack of long term testing of these mRNA vaccines in humans against a constantly mutating novel virus.

This chasing of last seasons virus with vaccines is a fools errand that just might have very bad long term side effects. I guess we will see what happens though.

---

Is anyone forcing them to get the vaccine?

And I am not getting any more boosters or advising patients to get them.

But if a product is available, they have the right to get it.

Cough cough

Flu

Cough Cough

The turns have tabled

Ags77 said:

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I asked my Dr if I should be getting the latest boosters and he replied that, although we are having a spike in covid cases, he didnt think i needed to. He thought the original 2 vaccine shots was sufficient.

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I just had my full annual checkup and my doctor said the same. She was pretty high on me getting the initial vaccine last year, but is now indifferent to it. She recommended that I get the booster but I didn't need to and if I didn't then no big deal. Could tell was just going through the motions and has moved on.

You keep using the word "vaccine". I don't think you know what that word actually means.

It's a shot, that has marginal efficacy that can absolutely be debated today. That's it. A shot.

YouBet said:

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Ags77 said:

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I asked my Dr if I should be getting the latest boosters and he replied that, although we are having a spike in covid cases, he didnt think i needed to. He thought the original 2 vaccine shots was sufficient.

---

I just had my full annual checkup and my doctor said the same. She was pretty high on me getting the initial vaccine last year, but is now indifferent to it. She recommended that I get the booster but I didn't need to and if I didn't then no big deal. Could tell was just going through the motions and has moved on.

---

That's why I have asked more than once whether we are talking about the original vaccine under trump or the boosters we have seen since. I was under the impression the original vaccine was effective in reducing the damage the virus had on people who got it. I think a lot of Dr's are saying the boosters aren't needed.

schmellba99 said:

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You keep using the word "vaccine". I don't think you know what that word actually means.

It's a shot, that has marginal efficacy that can absolutely be debated today. That's it. A shot.

---

Because if you use the word vaccine patients know what you are talking about.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

And I try to communicate with my patients so that they understand what I am saying.

If I say Covid therpeautic or even shot they might not understand.

You guys are making this a lot more difficult than it is.

And I am not an engineer.

fullback44 said:

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AgPrognosticator said:

---

fullback44 said:

---

AgPrognosticator said:

---

fullback44 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

I think all the posters on here should become doctors and solve all these transgressions.

I am confident all of y'all could do better than us.

Carry on

---

Dr.. we are simply asking that you guys acknowledge the new facts coming out. We are all tired of hearing the MSM ( and many Drs ) sweep the facts under the rug.. some of this information coming out is terrible. I have a good friend that just had heart surgery.. he started having heart issues after the 1st booster … this doesn't sit well with some of us

---

Before you say, "acknowledge the news facts", why don't you show us these "facts"?

Do you have mortality tables that you can share with us? Do you have any data that is not anecdotal? I'm genuinely interested. Would love to see new facts.

I've heard the stories about people I knew that passed away within close proximity to taking the vaccine, but I am unaware of people with the onset of conditions ostensibly brought on by the vaccine(s). Do share.

---

Hey BRO… if you want the data go look it up it's there .. sick of all the goal tenders protecting these Lousy so-called vaccines

---

You don't know me or my view of the vaccine.

Your failure to respond to a simple question and to instead attack someone you don't even know is disconcerting.

---

Lol.. don't get mad fella

---

Keep deflecting fella. You're all hat and no cattle.

dermdoc said:

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fullback44 said:

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Anytime someone is forced to take any type of medication wether it be a vaccine, stomach meds, psychological pills it's not good and won't sit well with the general public. If the US public ( and Drs in general and entire world for that matter) were lied to by the pharma companies then their will be repercussions. Data from all over the world isn't looking good on efficacy and excess deaths (much of this data is now starting to show up via life insurance companies .. if you want it go look it up.). This new information about Pfizer cutting testing short early on won't sit well with many many people in the general public. It's also very questionable when our own CDC and FDA chooses to suppress information from the military showing adverse effects on the vaccine itself, why was that data suppressed? …. The mask issue is another entirely questionable issue when study after study after study showed these mask don't help at all. There are uneasy feelings about all of this .. the more negative data that comes out the more angry people will grow … this is probably far far far from over.

And one last thing, please Let's not push these experimental vaccines (not even sure they should be allowed to be called vaccines ) on young children ….

---

We're any of y'all forced to take the vaccine?

I know I wasn't.

My Moh's surgeon is stridently anti vax and the hospital here did not make her take it.

---

Yes don't you read the news? Many people were because of this stupid ******ed presidents rules.. I personally wasn't but plenty of people were required to take the jabs to keep their jobs, mainly people flying around the country for work .. total bull**** political move

AgPrognosticator said:

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fullback44 said:

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AgPrognosticator said:

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fullback44 said:

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AgPrognosticator said:

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fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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I think all the posters on here should become doctors and solve all these transgressions.

I am confident all of y'all could do better than us.

Carry on

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Dr.. we are simply asking that you guys acknowledge the new facts coming out. We are all tired of hearing the MSM ( and many Drs ) sweep the facts under the rug.. some of this information coming out is terrible. I have a good friend that just had heart surgery.. he started having heart issues after the 1st booster … this doesn't sit well with some of us

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Before you say, "acknowledge the news facts", why don't you show us these "facts"?

Do you have mortality tables that you can share with us? Do you have any data that is not anecdotal? I'm genuinely interested. Would love to see new facts.

I've heard the stories about people I knew that passed away within close proximity to taking the vaccine, but I am unaware of people with the onset of conditions ostensibly brought on by the vaccine(s). Do share.

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Hey BRO… if you want the data go look it up it's there .. sick of all the goal tenders protecting these Lousy so-called vaccines

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You don't know me or my view of the vaccine.

Your failure to respond to a simple question and to instead attack someone you don't even know is disconcerting.

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Lol.. don't get mad fella

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Keep deflecting fella. You're all hat and no cattle.

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Your all mouth … go take another jab

fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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fullback44 said:

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Anytime someone is forced to take any type of medication wether it be a vaccine, stomach meds, psychological pills it's not good and won't sit well with the general public. If the US public ( and Drs in general and entire world for that matter) were lied to by the pharma companies then their will be repercussions. Data from all over the world isn't looking good on efficacy and excess deaths (much of this data is now starting to show up via life insurance companies .. if you want it go look it up.). This new information about Pfizer cutting testing short early on won't sit well with many many people in the general public. It's also very questionable when our own CDC and FDA chooses to suppress information from the military showing adverse effects on the vaccine itself, why was that data suppressed? …. The mask issue is another entirely questionable issue when study after study after study showed these mask don't help at all. There are uneasy feelings about all of this .. the more negative data that comes out the more angry people will grow … this is probably far far far from over.

And one last thing, please Let's not push these experimental vaccines (not even sure they should be allowed to be called vaccines ) on young children ….

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We're any of y'all forced to take the vaccine?

I know I wasn't.

My Moh's surgeon is stridently anti vax and the hospital here did not make her take it.

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Yes don't you read the news? Many people were because of this stupid ******ed presidents rules.. I personally wasn't but plenty of people were required to take the jabs to keep their jobs, mainly people flying around the country for work .. total bull**** political move

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Derm must be playing ignorant. There was a case brought all the way up to the Supreme Court on whether hospitals could force nurses and doctors to get vaccinated. The nurses and doctors lost. Sure there are a handful of small hospitals that didn't do it. You can bet all your mega hospital corporations like baylor/st. Josephs did.

texagbeliever said:

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fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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fullback44 said:

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Anytime someone is forced to take any type of medication wether it be a vaccine, stomach meds, psychological pills it's not good and won't sit well with the general public. If the US public ( and Drs in general and entire world for that matter) were lied to by the pharma companies then their will be repercussions. Data from all over the world isn't looking good on efficacy and excess deaths (much of this data is now starting to show up via life insurance companies .. if you want it go look it up.). This new information about Pfizer cutting testing short early on won't sit well with many many people in the general public. It's also very questionable when our own CDC and FDA chooses to suppress information from the military showing adverse effects on the vaccine itself, why was that data suppressed? …. The mask issue is another entirely questionable issue when study after study after study showed these mask don't help at all. There are uneasy feelings about all of this .. the more negative data that comes out the more angry people will grow … this is probably far far far from over.

And one last thing, please Let's not push these experimental vaccines (not even sure they should be allowed to be called vaccines ) on young children ….

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We're any of y'all forced to take the vaccine?

I know I wasn't.

My Moh's surgeon is stridently anti vax and the hospital here did not make her take it.

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Yes don't you read the news? Many people were because of this stupid ******ed presidents rules.. I personally wasn't but plenty of people were required to take the jabs to keep their jobs, mainly people flying around the country for work .. total bull**** political move

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Derm must be playing ignorant. There was a case brought all the way up to the Supreme Court on whether hospitals could force nurses and doctors to get vaccinated. The nurses and doctors lost. Sure there are a handful of small hospitals that didn't do it. You can bet all your mega hospital corporations like baylor/st. Josephs did.

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Yep.. my 2 Dr buddies were both forced to take the jab more than one time, both work for the big hospitals in Houston, they had no choice … Derm acts like he's neutral but if you look at his history he pushed vaccines hard early on and backed off as of late, I would assume because of the negative information coming out. the only reason he's on this thread is to refute the negative data…. It's going to be interesting to see if these Drs can be found liable for pushing vaccines that may have killed people directly or are now contributing to excess deaths.. this will certainly be challenged in the courts if it isn't already being challenged ?

Those covidians need to stay on the forum designed for them.. you know the forum where your not allowed to question the posted threads

Going after doctors would be a move of revenge that while satisfying in the short term would have long term consequences. Also I think front line doctors deserve grace. Now the likes of Faucci and other doctors in charge of policy should be liable if they willingly lied and misled.

texagbeliever said:

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Going after doctors would be a move of revenge that while satisfying in the short term would have long term consequences. Also I think front line doctors deserve grace. Now the likes of Faucci and other doctors in charge of policy should be liable if they willingly lied and misled.

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I agree with you on this.. however I'm not sure a lot of other people who have lost family members will agree. This will not be good if people go after the Drs.. I know someone whose brother may die of heart issues around the vax and clotting, heart surgery already. a family member says they will take action…

fullback44 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Going after doctors would be a move of revenge that while satisfying in the short term would have long term consequences. Also I think front line doctors deserve grace. Now the likes of Faucci and other doctors in charge of policy should be liable if they willingly lied and misled.

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I agree with you on this.. however I'm not sure a lot of other people who have lost family members will agree. This will not be good if people go after the Drs.. I know someone whose brother may die of heart issues around the vax and clotting, heart surgery already. a family member says they will take action…

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Sure but you can't expect a doctor to be right 100% of the time. That is doubly true when it is against the grain. You can't make up for a wrong by doing another wrong. It sucks but it is life.

fullback44 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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fullback44 said:

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Anytime someone is forced to take any type of medication wether it be a vaccine, stomach meds, psychological pills it's not good and won't sit well with the general public. If the US public ( and Drs in general and entire world for that matter) were lied to by the pharma companies then their will be repercussions. Data from all over the world isn't looking good on efficacy and excess deaths (much of this data is now starting to show up via life insurance companies .. if you want it go look it up.). This new information about Pfizer cutting testing short early on won't sit well with many many people in the general public. It's also very questionable when our own CDC and FDA chooses to suppress information from the military showing adverse effects on the vaccine itself, why was that data suppressed? …. The mask issue is another entirely questionable issue when study after study after study showed these mask don't help at all. There are uneasy feelings about all of this .. the more negative data that comes out the more angry people will grow … this is probably far far far from over.

And one last thing, please Let's not push these experimental vaccines (not even sure they should be allowed to be called vaccines ) on young children ….

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We're any of y'all forced to take the vaccine?

I know I wasn't.

My Moh's surgeon is stridently anti vax and the hospital here did not make her take it.

---

Yes don't you read the news? Many people were because of this stupid ******ed presidents rules.. I personally wasn't but plenty of people were required to take the jabs to keep their jobs, mainly people flying around the country for work .. total bull**** political move

---

Derm must be playing ignorant. There was a case brought all the way up to the Supreme Court on whether hospitals could force nurses and doctors to get vaccinated. The nurses and doctors lost. Sure there are a handful of small hospitals that didn't do it. You can bet all your mega hospital corporations like baylor/st. Josephs did.

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Yep.. my 2 Dr buddies were both forced to take the jab more than one time, both work for the big hospitals in Houston, they had no choice … Derm acts like he's neutral but if you look at his history he pushed vaccines hard early on and backed off as of late, I would assume because of the negative information coming out. the only reason he's on this thread is to refute the negative data…. It's going to be interesting to see if these Drs can be found liable for pushing vaccines that may have killed people directly or are now contributing to excess deaths.. this will certainly be challenged in the courts if it isn't already being challenged ?

Those covidians need to stay on the forum designed for them.. you know the forum where your not allowed to question the posted threads

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Derm has said multiple times he doesnt think the vaccine is effective for Omicron, in which he would be correct. ive said this a million times but Im an mRNA guy and i also dont believe vaccines are effective for omicron as it wasnt designed for omicron. the crime in all this is anyone pushing vaccines in the current environment, but not necessarily in early to mid 2021. i was for the vaccines early on specifically for a certain subset of the population but i have always been against them for young, seemingly healthy populations. and i know the science better than probably anyone on this board.

texagbeliever said:

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fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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fullback44 said:

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Anytime someone is forced to take any type of medication wether it be a vaccine, stomach meds, psychological pills it's not good and won't sit well with the general public. If the US public ( and Drs in general and entire world for that matter) were lied to by the pharma companies then their will be repercussions. Data from all over the world isn't looking good on efficacy and excess deaths (much of this data is now starting to show up via life insurance companies .. if you want it go look it up.). This new information about Pfizer cutting testing short early on won't sit well with many many people in the general public. It's also very questionable when our own CDC and FDA chooses to suppress information from the military showing adverse effects on the vaccine itself, why was that data suppressed? …. The mask issue is another entirely questionable issue when study after study after study showed these mask don't help at all. There are uneasy feelings about all of this .. the more negative data that comes out the more angry people will grow … this is probably far far far from over.

And one last thing, please Let's not push these experimental vaccines (not even sure they should be allowed to be called vaccines ) on young children ….

---

We're any of y'all forced to take the vaccine?

I know I wasn't.

My Moh's surgeon is stridently anti vax and the hospital here did not make her take it.

---

Yes don't you read the news? Many people were because of this stupid ******ed presidents rules.. I personally wasn't but plenty of people were required to take the jabs to keep their jobs, mainly people flying around the country for work .. total bull**** political move

---

Derm must be playing ignorant. There was a case brought all the way up to the Supreme Court on whether hospitals could force nurses and doctors to get vaccinated. The nurses and doctors lost. Sure there are a handful of small hospitals that didn't do it. You can bet all your mega hospital corporations like baylor/st. Josephs did.

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We are Christus which is pretty big. They started with a vax mandate but backed down.

And I am ignorant of any SC case as you mentioned.

Guess I am not educated like you.

fullback44 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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fullback44 said:

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Anytime someone is forced to take any type of medication wether it be a vaccine, stomach meds, psychological pills it's not good and won't sit well with the general public. If the US public ( and Drs in general and entire world for that matter) were lied to by the pharma companies then their will be repercussions. Data from all over the world isn't looking good on efficacy and excess deaths (much of this data is now starting to show up via life insurance companies .. if you want it go look it up.). This new information about Pfizer cutting testing short early on won't sit well with many many people in the general public. It's also very questionable when our own CDC and FDA chooses to suppress information from the military showing adverse effects on the vaccine itself, why was that data suppressed? …. The mask issue is another entirely questionable issue when study after study after study showed these mask don't help at all. There are uneasy feelings about all of this .. the more negative data that comes out the more angry people will grow … this is probably far far far from over.

And one last thing, please Let's not push these experimental vaccines (not even sure they should be allowed to be called vaccines ) on young children ….

---

We're any of y'all forced to take the vaccine?

I know I wasn't.

My Moh's surgeon is stridently anti vax and the hospital here did not make her take it.

---

Yes don't you read the news? Many people were because of this stupid ******ed presidents rules.. I personally wasn't but plenty of people were required to take the jabs to keep their jobs, mainly people flying around the country for work .. total bull**** political move

---

Derm must be playing ignorant. There was a case brought all the way up to the Supreme Court on whether hospitals could force nurses and doctors to get vaccinated. The nurses and doctors lost. Sure there are a handful of small hospitals that didn't do it. You can bet all your mega hospital corporations like baylor/st. Josephs did.

---

Yep.. my 2 Dr buddies were both forced to take the jab more than one time, both work for the big hospitals in Houston, they had no choice … Derm acts like he's neutral but if you look at his history he pushed vaccines hard early on and backed off as of late, I would assume because of the negative information coming out. the only reason he's on this thread is to refute the negative data…. It's going to be interesting to see if these Drs can be found liable for pushing vaccines that may have killed people directly or are now contributing to excess deaths.. this will certainly be challenged in the courts if it isn't already being challenged ?

Those covidians need to stay on the forum designed for them.. you know the forum where your not allowed to question the posted threads

---

I do not "act" like anything. I have made my opinion pretty clear I believe.

I believe that all studies show that the vaccines resulted in lower morbidity and mortality when Covid was more severe. And there are numerous links to support that assertion.

I do not think the vaccines work as well for omicron and would not recommend any boosters.

No one knows whether it prevented anybody from getting Covid as those studies can not ethically be done.

I never was forced to take anything and neither were my two young docs.

The hyperbole, projection, anger etc. on this thread is over the top as I do not think I said anything controversial.

And where did I refute any negative data? You guys are projecting stuff on me that I never stated.

But if that makes you feel better, I am a good punching bag.

Big, broad shoulders.

texagbeliever said:

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dermdoc said:

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texagbeliever said:

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People who should admit they were wrong are those who claimed:

1. Vaccine was effective at reducing transmission or infection
2. Vaccine was safe
3. Masks reduce the spread of covid
4. Isolation/shutting down the country is an appropriate way of reacting to a virus outbreak
5. People who accused individuals of being selfish for not getting vaccinated especially younger people
6. Anyone who pushed for vaccination of children
7. Anyone who contributed to fear stats that children were overwhelming hospital systems with covid (when covid was just something they had but not the reason for admission nor the reason for the stay).
8. People who encouraged policies that isolated the hospitalized/nursing home individuals from outside interaction.
9. People who supported/went along with their company enforcing vaccine mandates
10. People who call the covid vaccine a vaccine when reality is it is at best a therapeutic.

All of the above was wrong. I'm not saying it was knowable all the above was wrong when decisions had to be made; I'm just saying it is knowable now.

It is also worth noting the BEST thing an individual could do to reduce hospitalization/death was:
1. Improve diet (lose weight)
2. Exercise
3. Get sunlight
4. Sleep appropriate amounts.
5. Reduce alcohol/drug consumption
6. Healthy human interaction

All of the above if encouraged would have had a way bigger impact on reducing death. Yet our political leaders at the behest of doctors: shut down gyms, closed churches, made people mask up, isolated the elderly, closed playgrounds, instituted curfews, etc.

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How do you know #1 for a fact. Glad to be educated if you have a link.

And, IMHO, #2 is to be determined unless you have a link to stats on large study groups.

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Plenty of viral load studies have demonstrated the vaccinated aren't less likely to spread.
Based on the fact that every vaccinated person i know has caught covid the effectiveness is non-existent. I didn't think educated persons argued about whether or not it prevented infection.

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You miss the point at this stage in time. I know of very few people that think the vaccines prevent catching the current variants or spreading them. The data continues to show that vaccinated individuals (especially the high risk groups) are less likely to be hospitalized. I'm good with that. 98% of folks need no real fear from the current variants.

Flame away…….

fullback44 said:

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dermdoc said:

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fullback44 said:

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Anytime someone is forced to take any type of medication wether it be a vaccine, stomach meds, psychological pills it's not good and won't sit well with the general public. If the US public ( and Drs in general and entire world for that matter) were lied to by the pharma companies then their will be repercussions. Data from all over the world isn't looking good on efficacy and excess deaths (much of this data is now starting to show up via life insurance companies .. if you want it go look it up.). This new information about Pfizer cutting testing short early on won't sit well with many many people in the general public. It's also very questionable when our own CDC and FDA chooses to suppress information from the military showing adverse effects on the vaccine itself, why was that data suppressed? …. The mask issue is another entirely questionable issue when study after study after study showed these mask don't help at all. There are uneasy feelings about all of this .. the more negative data that comes out the more angry people will grow … this is probably far far far from over.

And one last thing, please Let's not push these experimental vaccines (not even sure they should be allowed to be called vaccines ) on young children ….

---

We're any of y'all forced to take the vaccine?

I know I wasn't.

My Moh's surgeon is stridently anti vax and the hospital here did not make her take it.

---

Yes don't you read the news? Many people were because of this stupid ******ed presidents rules.. I personally wasn't but plenty of people were required to take the jabs to keep their jobs, mainly people flying around the country for work .. total bull**** political move

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And I can not stand Biden but when did he dictate that private companies force their employees to get vaccinated?

Maybe I missed that?