baron_von_awesome said:

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taxpreparer said:

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Property valuation should be frozen at the its value when it was purchased. Let the elected politicians change the rate as needed, instead of an unelected person (or person) decide what they think it is worth. what we have now is the equivalent of taxing unrealized gains.

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Or switch to sales tax

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VAT is perfect example for this. The more stuff you buy or use, the more you pay overall.

Y'all can always sell your expensive homes, make a killing and move further away or to another less expensive town. Or rent a home.

I mean there are choices.

taxpreparer said:

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taxpreparer said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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taxpreparer said:

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Property valuation should be frozen at the its value when it was purchased. Let the elected politicians change the rate as needed, instead of an unelected person (or person) decide what they think it is worth. what we have now is the equivalent of taxing unrealized gains.

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California has done this, and look what happened to them.

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I am not saying freeze taxes, just the valuation. Make the elected officials own the tax increases. As it is now, they can brag about reducing tax rates while the actual taxes we pay increases.


edit: fixed typo

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Yes, I'm quoting myself.

There is no reason a good city council should not be able to defend raising tax rates in order to pay for neccessary services and infrastructure. As it is now they hide tax increases in increased valuations and say it is not their fault, they kept the rate the same, or even lowered it a little. I am not suggesting voters vote on tax rates. I am suggesting the elected officials be put into a position to defend those rates. When politicians can spend a million dollars more without raising "taxes" the system is not responsive to citizens. When some unelected hired gun can decide my rural property is more valuable as a shopping center, or subdivision, and triples its value accordingly, my desire to keep it pristine is worthless. Property values do not change until there is a willing buyer and seller.

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This statement is not correct. A key component to market value is "its the most probable price a willing buyer and willing seller can agree to with both parties fully informed and acting in their own interests with neither party in duress." All real estate is appraised to its highest and best use. What you are saying is a property that someone paid $100,000 for in downtown Houston across the street from Minute Maid Park in 1970 is still worth $100,000 now because it has not sold. Their cost basis may be $100,000 but its value is a lot more.

Look, I hate the property tax system. Its a rigged game. As others have pointed out, if government entity needs more money, they can always count on the CAD to increase the value in an improving market. If the market slows down, levels off, or declines, the government entity just increases the tax rate. The problem we all have is the property tax system in general.

I mostly agree with what you said, but there truly is a subjective component.

Some families, for example, have owned land for several generations and could not be pried off it any price. To them the land is too valuable to sell.

Some heirs cannot wait to dispose of a parent's house and are willing to practically give it away. To them it is almost worthless.

In both cases, the property's assessed value does not resemble its true value to the owners.

It's nice being old. Property value has doubled. Paid the same amount of county, school and road taxes for the last 7 years. The esd taxes have gone up maybe $40 in that time.... Don't know why I should be paying school tax though since we haven't had any kids in school in over 20 years. It's as if I'm mandatorily paying into some kind of entitlement program for those with kids in school.....

Rattler12 said:

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It's nice being old. Property value has doubled. Paid the same amount of county, school and road taxes for the last 7 years. The esd taxes have gone up maybe $40 in that time.... Don't know why I should be paying school tax though since we haven't had any kids in school in over 20 years. It's as if I'm mandatorily paying into some kind of entitlement program for those with kids in school.....

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Youngsters who do not have kids yet pay it forward, those of us olds pay it back.

dp

The total market value of my home in Williamson County, per WCAD, went up 90% year over year. Basically, it means they've been doing a poor job the last several years of assessing market value. No way it increased 90% in the last 12 months. They even provided comps this year to justify the increase.

Thank goodness the assessed value increase is capped at 10%.

dmart90 said:

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The total market value of my home in Williamson County, per WCAD, went up 90% year over year. Basically, it means they've been doing a poor job the last several years of assessing market value. No way it increased 90% in the last 12 months. They even provided comps this year to justify the increase.

Thank goodness the assessed value increase is capped at 10%.

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That's simply not true. I guess you are not paying attention to the housing market now.

If a person wanted to sell and was required to sell his house for it's appraised value would we have any seller's ? I doubt it. I know I wouldn't sell for what ours is appraised at. If your house is appraised at $400K and you sell it for $600K who was getting the shaft when it came to the taxed value?

I love that people are actually trying to argue that the government taxing unrealized gains and forcing people to sell their homes when they otherwise wouldn't is promoting a free or efficient market. If you want my property pay me the price at which I'm willing to sell. Don't raise my taxes based on what you think it's worth and force me to sell at an artificially low price. That seems pretty tyrannical to me.

With our property tax system, Texas does not need eminent domain, it can simply raise the property valuation enough to make it impossible to pay the taxes, and force a sale.

Property tax rates should auto-decrease as appraisals rise. The net pay for all unchanged properties in a district should not increase yoy barring a vote by elected officials.

Mine went up 51.8%. Even if I win an appeal it won't get knocked below the 10% assessed increase that they've hit me with the previous 7 years

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Property tax rates should auto-decrease as appraisals rise. The net pay for all unchanged properties in a district should not increase yoy barring a vote by elected officials.

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This is the answer, basically requiring taxing entities to adopt a tax rate that yields the same revenue as last year plus 8 percent. If they want more than that they have hold votes to adopt the higher rates.

Which they will pass, because people don't like potholes and like police and firefighters, then we are back to "muh value"

All these angry white guys mad about paying taxes.
Samsung, Toyota, Tesla, Facepuke etc get property tax deals, the rest of us without big law firms and lobbyists are going to have to cover the difference as spending increases.

TxTarpon said:

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All these angry white guys mad about paying taxes.
Samsung, Toyota, Tesla, Facepuke etc get property tax deals, the rest of us without big law firms and lobbyists are going to have to cover the difference as spending increases.

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WTF does one's skin color have to do with this? A person's skin color never crossed my mind and unless someone said what it was, if I even commit it to memory, I truly do not know what anyone's skin color is on here.

I used to work at HCAD nearly 40 years ago. I remember when the current Chief Appraiser was hired and he worked in the field operations division. The property tax system is problematically flawed. I am pissed that it has not been reformed in decades despite campaigning on it by many reps. You never truly own your home because there is an implied perpetual tax lien against it as long as there are property taxes. Its an immoral tax, plain and simple.

Replace it with a statewide 1% sales/consumption/VAT tax dedicated to school funding. The state will dole out X dollars per student to fund education. Local districts can levy a one-time local sales tax rate to fund buildings that must be repaid in a finite period of time and be voter approved. The argument that rural districts don't have the tax base to fund construction ties directly with there being fewer students as well so they do not need as many construction projects. Plus, its a mostly a moot argument as rural school districts lose lots of money in valuations vs the suburbs due to ag exemptions. The guy with 250 acres thats worth $5K per acre (total value $1,250,000) only pays taxes on about $100,000 of value, or less, on that 250 acres.

same. they save me something every year. some years more, some less, but every year they reduce the appraised value to some degree.

with o'connor my appraise value since 2014 up 18%. harris county appraised value over same period without fighting it would have been up 28%.

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WTF does one's skin color have to do with this?

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A cheeky comment since most posters here are just that.
Lighten up Frances.

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The property tax system is problematically flawed. I am pissed that it has not been reformed in decades despite campaigning on it by many reps. You never truly own your home because there is an implied perpetual tax lien against it as long as there are property taxes. Its an immoral tax, plain and simple.

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It is a hard fix. Much easier to pass laws about who uses what bathroom.

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Replace it with a statewide 1% sales/consumption/VAT tax dedicated to school funding.

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Why do I have to pay to educate YOUR kid?
If you cannot feed them and educate them, then don't breed them.

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Local districts can levy a one-time local sales tax rate to fund buildings that must be repaid in a finite period of time and be voter approved.

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In SA the local school district floated bonds to pay for big swimming centers that Olympians use to train.
WTH? How about sever sports from schools and save taxpayers $$$$$$$$$$$.

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The guy with 250 acres thats worth $5K per acre (total value $1,250,000) only pays taxes on about $100,000 of value, or less, on that 250 acres.

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Yep.
And they have two bathrooms and know what boys and girls are.

Aggie95 said:

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Right about now.... the whole "but Texas has no state income tax" is a fallacy. Sure, I pay a state income tax, but generally speaking, that value is way less than the value of the home. It certainly doesn't always work that way but in crazy home price times I feel like it works out in my favor.

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For years I found value in that but that was because while I was a Texas resident, due to the Army I did not live in Texas. After the Army I moved to Florida and while it wasn't as bad as what you all are describing, it wasn't cheap. Finally got fed up with it and originally thought of going to Texas but when I did some research about which states your dollar goes the furthest, I decided against Texas and moved to Missouri. Sure we have an state income tax but when it comes to property taxes and property prices, it can't be beat. I couldn't believe what I could afford here versus Florida, or even Texas for that matter. When it comes time for retirement though, I may look somewhere else though but until then I'm staying here.

TxTarpon said:

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WTF does one's skin color have to do with this?

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A cheeky comment since most posters here are just that.
Lighten up Frances.

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The property tax system is problematically flawed. I am pissed that it has not been reformed in decades despite campaigning on it by many reps. You never truly own your home because there is an implied perpetual tax lien against it as long as there are property taxes. Its an immoral tax, plain and simple.

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It is a hard fix. Much easier to pass laws about who uses what bathroom.

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Replace it with a statewide 1% sales/consumption/VAT tax dedicated to school funding.

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Why do I have to pay to educate YOUR kid?
If you cannot feed them and educate them, then don't breed them.

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Local districts can levy a one-time local sales tax rate to fund buildings that must be repaid in a finite period of time and be voter approved.

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In SA the local school district floated bonds to pay for big swimming centers that Olympians use to train.
WTH? How about sever sports from schools and save taxpayers $$$$$$$$$$$.

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The guy with 250 acres thats worth $5K per acre (total value $1,250,000) only pays taxes on about $100,000 of value, or less, on that 250 acres.

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Yep.
And they have two bathrooms and know what boys and girls are.

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My bad, sarcasm doesn't show through all the time when reading posts.

As far as paying for school, my kids are out. That said, the state is constitutionally required since 1876 to provide a free public education system, and I propose is a statewide sales/consumption/VAT to pay for public education. The money has got to come from somewhere.

The other issues such as extracurricular stuff should be discussed as to whether they are a necessary component of education. As far as use of funds, those are different topics and likely a whole another thread. Elected idiots who live in the "wouldn't it be great if we could......." are making these decisions.

MapGuy said:

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Aggie95 said:

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Right about now.... the whole "but Texas has no state income tax" is a fallacy. Sure, I pay a state income tax, but generally speaking, that value is way less than the value of the home. It certainly doesn't always work that way but in crazy home price times I feel like it works out in my favor.

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For years I found value in that but that was because while I was a Texas resident, due to the Army I did not live in Texas. After the Army I moved to Florida and while it wasn't as bad as what you all are describing, it wasn't cheap. Finally got fed up with it and originally thought of going to Texas but when I did some research about which states your dollar goes the furthest, I decided against Texas and moved to Missouri. Sure we have an state income tax but when it comes to property taxes and property prices, it can't be beat. I couldn't believe what I could afford here versus Florida, or even Texas for that matter. When it comes time for retirement though, I may look somewhere else though but until then I'm staying here.

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Except for the fact that . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

you have to live in Missouri.

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Except for the fact that . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

you have to live in Missouri.

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I used to think that way, hell I avoided this place like the plague while in the Army but so long as you aren't in the cities it is absolutely beautiful here in the Ozark region, especially if you are into the outdoors

In 3 years since we purchased our home our house assessment value is up over 210% of the CAD value at our closing. They took the sale as a chance to increase the amount significantly and then adds on 10-30% annually.

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My bad, sarcasm doesn't show through all the time when reading posts.

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We feel ya bro.

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That said, the state is constitutionally required since 1876 to provide a free public education system, and I propose is a statewide sales/consumption/VAT to pay for public education. The money has got to come from somewhere.

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Those with kids in school
That is who should pay.
Yes, you are correct about the Texas constitution that was written so Texans cannot tell other Texans what to do, but it does make them pay for it.


Town of 32,000 in debt for a $500,000 video board?
WTH? This is how the government owned sports spend money.

You bring up an excellent point about dedicated statewide funding.
I would bet it would work very well after some ISD consolidation.

TxTarpon said:

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My bad, sarcasm doesn't show through all the time when reading posts.

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We feel ya bro.

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That said, the state is constitutionally required since 1876 to provide a free public education system, and I propose is a statewide sales/consumption/VAT to pay for public education. The money has got to come from somewhere.

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Those with kids in school
That is who should pay.
Yes, you are correct about the Texas constitution that was written so Texans cannot tell other Texans what to do, but it does make them pay for it.


Town of 32,000 in debt for a $500,000 video board?
WTH? This is how the government owned sports spend money.

You bring up an excellent point about dedicated statewide funding.
I would bet it would work very well after some ISD consolidation.

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Seriously, I think a lot of the stuff that is built is for ego or "legacy" reasons as school board members gets their name on a plaque when its built.

State sales/consumption/VAT is about the only way you could fund it without property taxes. At least that way it gets everyone versus only property owners plus it makes all of the exemptions (homestead, ag, disable vet, etc....) not necessary.

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Seriously, I think a lot of the stuff that is built is for ego or "legacy" reasons as school board members gets their name on a plaque when its built.

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110% correct there.

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State sales/consumption/VAT is about the only way you could fund it without property taxes. At least that way it gets everyone versus only property owners plus it makes all of the exemptions (homestead, ag, disable vet, etc....) not necessary.

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Yep.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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HCAD bumped one of my rentals up almost 70%

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My house went up 87%...my buddy's went up 122%

Sgt. Schultz said:

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TxTarpon said:

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My bad, sarcasm doesn't show through all the time when reading posts.

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We feel ya bro.

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That said, the state is constitutionally required since 1876 to provide a free public education system, and I propose is a statewide sales/consumption/VAT to pay for public education. The money has got to come from somewhere.

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Those with kids in school
That is who should pay.
Yes, you are correct about the Texas constitution that was written so Texans cannot tell other Texans what to do, but it does make them pay for it.


Town of 32,000 in debt for a $500,000 video board?
WTH? This is how the government owned sports spend money.

You bring up an excellent point about dedicated statewide funding.
I would bet it would work very well after some ISD consolidation.

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Seriously, I think a lot of the stuff that is built is for ego or "legacy" reasons as school board members gets their name on a plaque when its built.

State sales/consumption/VAT is about the only way you could fund it without property taxes. At least that way it gets everyone versus only property owners plus it makes all of the exemptions (homestead, ag, disable vet, etc....) not necessary.

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Who is not paying property taxes?

This should help answer questions about the process!