Closer to a second and a half.

FIDO*98* said:

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GAC06 said:

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Very fatiguing

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Pathetic how everyone keyed in on that comment because they were no valid arguments about every other point I made. The right pedal is still annoying compared to an ICE vehicle, but glad I gave you some lube to stroke each other off with

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Because it was a simply ridiculous comment.

That and complaining about no key fob. Gee I wish I owned a car that required me to carry around a fob to be able to drive it.

cslifer said:

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Why would you worry about renting a 4xe wrangler. You do know it has a gas motor, right? It is a plug in hybrid.

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I didn't know that. I knew it was a plug in. Didn't want to deal with that part when I was out on a work trip where I had other **** to deal with. And didn't want to have to take time to mess with it or learn what or if I needed to do anything with the plugin.

Which goes to my point about public acceptance....I was averse to that...

EVERYONE knows what you do with an ICE vehicle (except NJ)...

You posted about this before and I absolutely cannot figure out what the issue is. Go to the gas station and fill it up. It's an ICE that gets good gas mileage. What point are you making that you were glad to discover the problem before you left the rental car place? The Aggie jokes write themselves…

GAC06 said:

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That and complaining about no key fob. Gee I wish I owned a car that required me to carry around a fob to be able to drive it.

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I leave my car unlocked in the garage. If I have to grab something out of it, I go grab it. If I leave something in the Tesla, better make sure I have my phone.

Teslag said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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GAC06 said:

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Very fatiguing

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Pathetic how everyone keyed in on that comment because they were no valid arguments about every other point I made. The right pedal is still annoying compared to an ICE vehicle, but glad I gave you some lube to stroke each other off with

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Because it was a simply ridiculous comment.

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Okay, but you still didn't address any other valid complaints. Just double down on that one.

You can set it to remain unlocked at home, boomer

He doesn't have to like the car.

Some of those criticisms are Tesla specific design choices that I think will be mitigated with future technology introduction (steer by wire making removal of stalks less impactful) which won't help him, seems they're adding back tunable regenerative braking via software update, and the seats are a personal preference thing.

Drove my new Model Y for family Thanksgiving and people commented on how comfortable the seats were. I think it's comfortable, but I don't have an exceptionally wide butt and some more substantial butts may find the bolstering uncomfortable. To each their own.

Lack of physical controls can be confusing, especially for people that don't use it as their daily driver. Again, a Tesla choice not an EV specific criticism, possibly mitigated through a software update by addition of more robust voice controls. Supposedly Grok will be coming to vehicles, we'll see.

GAC06 said:

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Closer to a second and a half.

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When's the last time you drove down 46, 306, or 35. You're governed by the car in front of you 99% of the time.

Again, it's a company car so some features are locked out. We are stuck with regen braking, auto lock, 80% charging capacity, and a few others.

GAC06 said:

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You can set it to remain unlocked at home

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FIFY

I don't think I've ever been on two of those, and it's been years since I've been on 35 outside of DFW. I thought you said you enjoyed driving your Acura on back roads? The model 3 performance does that very well, and much, much faster.

I thought you lived in New Braunfels.

I'm west of Ft Worth

My car

Wife's car

I'll take better looking, more comfortable, and 6,000 RPM turbo sounds over a 0-60 time all day every day. The engine sounds even better on the hill country roads

hph6203 said:

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What is novel to the old is the norm to the young. People age into and out of prime new car buying age.

If a person has access to 120v/15a charging at home (standard outlet), their demands on public charging will be less than their demands on gas station fueling, by a lot. Meaning the number of visits to those sites will go down.

Using a Model Y as an example, a person that drives 40 miles in a typical day (more than the average daily commute by ~33%) would lose about 4 miles of their charge capacity every day by just using a 120v/15a charger. Meaning if they went to a public charger to reset to full like they do a gas station with an ICE car they'd have to go once every ~50 days. 1/5th as frequently as they would in a gas vehicle. If you bumped it to a 20a outlet it would be only in instances where they were likely using a public charger anyway.

There are also products gaining approval to simplify the installation for EV charging/solar installations where a device is installed behind the meter, but before the main panel to add level 2 charging capacity, meaning if you have a 100 amp capacity with no additional breaker slots you can add charging without replacing the entire panel reducing the cost from multiple thousands for those people to ~$1000 (around 1 year's worth of fuel and maintenance savings with an EV).


For something like a 3 row SUV or truck the frequency of visits to public charging would go up, but would still be less frequent than the norm frequency of gas station visits, and because those vehicles are inherently more expensive you're filtering out a lot of people that lack the funds or ability to add level 2 charging to their home.


The 2035 year would be an estimate of ~50% new vehicle market, which would still only be about ~20% (if that) of the nationwide fleet of vehicles and it would still take another 15-20 years before reaching market saturation/steady state adoption rates. By that point you're really deep into the possibility of autonomous vehicles having the capacity to go charge themselves at faster chargers without the owners having to be present/some individuals foregoing ownership of a vehicle in favor of using publicly available ride share.

Point being the probability of high EV adoption rates (>75%) over the next 30 years is higher than low EV adoption rates (<30%) due a variety of technological improvements with the platform (higher energy density batteries, faster charging, more efficient drive train, vehicle weight reduction) and parallel technologies that mitigate the downsides (autonomy).

With autonomy solved you can imagine scenarios where vehicles are purpose built for use cases, meaning around the city vehicles having enough capacity to make it through a day of driving (~40 kWh batteries) and some proportion being built for intermediate travel (100 kWh batteries) and long distance travel (200 kWh batteries) each being able to fulfill their duty cycles with very little downtime.

I am less tied to the timing of my expectations than the directionality of the expectations. Meaning it may be slower than I expect, but I'm confident about the end point, high EV adoption rates and autonomous driving being solved.

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I'll deal with most of this tomorrow evening when I get to the hotel in Orlando but...

a) You, as usual, hand-waved away the issues I pointed out, but, also as usual, used a LOT of words to do it.

2) Ten years from now the young will still be in the low income category for large purchases while the folks like me, Gen X, will still be in the high income category.

iii) Autonomy with vehicles has ZERO to do with EVs. And what do you mean by "solved"?

D) I'm very bullish on autonomy. It's literally my job.

GAC06 said:

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I'm west of Ft Worth

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You're in f-ing Weatherford, too?

Or, Aledo?

chap said:

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You posted about this before and I absolutely cannot figure out what the issue is. Go to the gas station and fill it up. It's an ICE that gets good gas mileage. What point are you making that you were glad to discover the problem before you left the rental car place? The Aggie jokes write themselves…

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I drive a Rubicon.

I didn't know it was a hybrid and not a full EV. I knew it had a plugin.

I'm sure everyone else would know for sure, though, that it was a hybrid and not an EV that NEVER needed to be plugged in (even though it has a plugin). The average person is VERY astute.

Ag with kids said:

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chap said:

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You posted about this before and I absolutely cannot figure out what the issue is. Go to the gas station and fill it up. It's an ICE that gets good gas mileage. What point are you making that you were glad to discover the problem before you left the rental car place? The Aggie jokes write themselves…

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I drive a Rubicon.

I didn't know it was a hybrid and not a full EV. I knew it had a plugin.

I'm sure everyone else would know for sure, though, that it was a hybrid and not an EV that NEVER needed to be plugged in (even though it has a plugin). The average person is VERY astute.

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And I'm saying I don't believe you.

I drive a Rubicon. And I know that Jeep doesn't make an EV.

But even if I didn't know that I cannot imagine noticing that there is a plug but also NOT noticing that there is a gas cap. Especially since I drive a Rubicon.

Ag with kids said:

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GAC06 said:

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I'm west of Ft Worth

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You're in f-ing Weatherford, too?

Or, Aledo?

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I smell a round at Canyon West

My address says Aledo but I'm not actually in it

FIDO*98* said:

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I'll take better looking, more comfortable, and 6,000 RPM turbo sounds over a 0-60 time all day every day. The engine sounds even better on the hill country roads

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If that's what you like, that's what you like. I replaced my 470hp V-8 sounds of a GS-F with the model 3 performance and it's a huge upgrade. Effortlessly fast without wasted time shifting or reving, and it handles great.

You're generally misunderstanding the problem set, because you have zero experience with an EV and when presented with an opportunity to deal with an EV (or at least what you thought was an EV) you decided to avoid it. You lack curiosity on the topic, which is why your scenarios are often ridiculous like question how you deal with the fact that you have a bunch of junk in your garage and the your girlfriend won't let you park in the other half.

Of course charging will have to expand, but you over estimate the percentage of drivers that would be 100% reliant on public charging. You think it's a large percentage, I'm saying it's not. Definitely not compared to the fleet market share that would exist in 10 years. >80% of new cars are purchased by people that own their home, much easier to solve charging at home when you can call an electrician to do the work rather than asking an intermediary (leasing office) to add charging.

Millennials will be in their early 40's to mid 50's, Gen Z late 20's to late 30's. They won't still be "low income." Gen X will be drifted towards their fixed income years. Over half of all vehicle sales are made to the age group that Gen Z and Millenials will occupy in 10 years. People age.

Autonomy is absolutely related to electric. Electric is not a pre-requisite, but autonomy and electric both benefit more as a combination than ICE and autonomy. Cost savings in a year for an EV compared to a hybrid would be around $4000 (90,000 miles driven). When you scale that up to just 1 million vehicles you're talking about $40 billion a year in extra expenses.

Because it's autonomous your maximum range requirement is lower, because it can charge itself so you can reduce battery size (Tesla's concept car has a 35 kWh battery) letting you reduce the upfront cost to be comparable to an ICE and long term undercut the price as the manufacturing scales. Estimates on the cost to build that vehicle are around $17,000. Just from the cost savings on fuel/maintenance you'd recoup the cost of the vehicle.

There's a reason every major autonomous driving developer is pursuing electric for its platform. Cruise uses a modified Chevy Bolt, Waymo uses a modified Jaguar i-Pace, Zoox uses a custom built EV, and Tesla is Tesla.

Quote:

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There's a reason every major autonomous driving developer is pursuing electric for its platform.

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Mandates.

Canuks warn about driving EVs on icy roads.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/culture/article-with-greater-weight-and-torque-evs-can-have-dangerous-momentum-on-icy/

Whenever I hear friends and others wax poetic about FSD this image comes to mind.

Brits desperate to help sales.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2024/dec/01/loans-uk-motorists-electric-ev-fines

Quote:

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Jonathan Reynolds, the business and trade secretary, stood by the government's "cast iron commitment" to reinstate a 2030 ban on new cars that run on petrol and diesel. The deadline was dropped by Rishi Sunak a year ago. But he said the government had to be "clear eyed" in its effort to "keep the auto industry alive in the UK".
…
Carmakers have to ensure 28% of the cars and 16% of vans they sell are electric from January. If they fail, they currently face fines of 15,000 for each vehicle outside the target. Ministers are holding a consultation on how far the fines could be reduced.
…
It comes after a decision by Stellantis, the owner of Vauxhall, to close its van factory at Luton, putting 1,100 jobs at risk of being cut or relocated. The company blamed the UK's economic conditions and the government's zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) mandate. Days before, Ford announced it would cut 4,000 jobs in Europe, including 800 in the UK.

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Quote:

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The Tesla sucks. For the benefit of those who missed my post on the Auto board I'll post everything that sucks with the exception of the gas pedal. The doors suck, lack of turn signals sucks, no key fob sucks,, no button controls sucks, cheap interior sucks, cruise control is much much worse if you don't opt for the $8,000 FSD, seats are uncomfortable AF (subjective), and charging infrastructure sucks. The car flat out sucks unless you're trying to win a drag race

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• nobody has had any isses with my doors, including my five year old
• it took about thirty seconds to get used to the turn signals
• i love not having a key fob. i can't imagine why anyone would want a key fob or why other manufacturers don't follow suit, but at the same time, you can buy a key fob if you want?
• i find the on-steering wheel controls to be much more intuitive than those in other cars i've owned (toyota, chevrolet, audi, vw) and the UI on the touch screen is way more intuitive than i thought it would be. this was a major worry of mine coming into it, but i've been incredibly impressed with the entire user experience. frankly it blows every other auto user interface i listed out of the water, and its not close
• can't afford FSD lol poor
• don't mind the seats
• charging infrastructure has been no problem for me, but i charge at home with a wall connector and have only used superchargers on long trips. but, the nav routes you to chargers and makes it about as brain-dead easy as possible, and there's chargers all over

honestly this review is actually absurd, a complete 180 from my experience.

I drive a car (paid off in 6 months) that cost more than a Model 3 Performance with FSD but somehow I'm too poor to buy the lower quality less expensive vehicle.

Ya the charge infrastructure comment is absurd. There's basically supercharger everywhere now.

Looks like it

PS you can get a monthly subscription to FSD.

Not sure bragging about paying more for the much slower, poorer performing vehicle is the flex you're looking for

techno-ag said:

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Quote:

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There's a reason every major autonomous driving developer is pursuing electric for its platform.

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Mandates.

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No.