Deputy Travis Junior said:

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While we're ranting insanely about cars, let's give lifted trucks and the *******s that drive them their due. Something about the truck + lift combo makes it all but a guarantee that the driver will do 90 on the interstate and aggressively tailgate anybody in front of them.

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Don't forget the white frame Oakley's and affliction tshirts

Super awesome time waiting 20 minutes in line and another 20 to charge trying to get out of College Station today. Disregard any positive comments I may have said on previous pages. So sick of this car. I'll absolutely never own another EV

FIDO*98* said:

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Super awesome time waiting 20 minutes in line and another 20 to charge trying to get out of College Station today. Disregard any positive comments I may have said on previous pages. So sick of this car. I'll absolutely never own another EV

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Wowzers. How far is home from Kyle Field?

FIDO*98* said:

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Super awesome time waiting 20 minutes in line and another 20 to charge trying to get out of College Station today. Disregard any positive comments I may have said on previous pages. So sick of this car. I'll absolutely never own another EV

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You drove to the game and arrived with zero charge? I can literally drive to the game from DFW, charge in Abbot on the way then not have to charge again until I get home.

Thank you for posting this. I hope this thread has assisted some folks to disbelieve the hype/sales pitch for these things when making a new vehicle decision. It's useful to get honest feedback from owners as well such as this.

FIDO*98* said:

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Super awesome time waiting 20 minutes in line and another 20 to charge trying to get out of College Station today. Disregard any positive comments I may have said on previous pages. So sick of this car. I'll absolutely never own another EV

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You may want to look into a hybrid. You get all the long range driving you want from gas and then never stop by a gas station the rest of the year when you're driving around town.

nortex97 said:

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Thank you for posting this. I hope this thread has assisted some folks to disbelieve the hype/sales pitch for these things when making a new vehicle decision. It's useful to get honest feedback from owners as well such as this.

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Do you also blame the car when people run out of gas?

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Thank you for posting this. I hope this thread has assisted some folks to disbelieve the hype/sales pitch for these things when making a new vehicle decision. It's useful to get honest feedback from owners as well such as this.

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Do you also blame the car when people run out of gas?

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This is one where there is a difference. If you get an EV, you do need to do some basic planning like potentially charging before a city with no/limited charging capabilities for an event like game day. With an ICE, you don't need to think because there are numerous gas stations.

With some basic planning, issues like what Fido raised should rarely/never happen but it is a downside to EVs. Once you have had the car for a month or two, it should become second nature.

Kansas Kid said:

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Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Thank you for posting this. I hope this thread has assisted some folks to disbelieve the hype/sales pitch for these things when making a new vehicle decision. It's useful to get honest feedback from owners as well such as this.

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Do you also blame the car when people run out of gas?

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This is one where there is a difference. If you get an EV, you do need to do some basic planning like potentially charging before a city with no/limited charging capabilities for an event like game day. With an ICE, you don't need to think because there are numerous gas stations.

With some basic planning, issues like what Fido raised should rarely/never happen but it is a downside to EVs. Once you have had the car for a month or two, it should become second nature.

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You realize you're arguing with an EV troll that likely owns a Tesla as a novelty but who's daily driver is likely a Ford Powerstroke

What did he say that wasn't true?

Fido has had his Tesla long enough to know the actual range and where to charge. He put himself in a bad situation and blamed the car.

Teslag said:

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What did he say that wasn't true?

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Do you often refer to yourself in a third person?

The point is that if EVs are going to be a mainstream product a person shouldn't have to consider those circumstances to avoid issues. EVs are still in the early phase of adoption. The consistent theme on this thread is some people deny the problems that exist with EVs and others believe those problems are unlikely to be resolved.

The charging issues appear to be one that is going to be resolved by the end of the decade from an onboard hardware/charging hardware standpoint. In other words the ideal scenario will be lacking in significant inconvenience. Turning that ideal scenario into the norm scenario might take another decade. Over that same period the cost down/rapidity of production for EVs is going to improve at a rate faster than ICE vehicles can keep up.

Meaning that a comparable EV to an ICE vehicle by 2035 is going to be cheaper and more performant and the totality of tradeoffs/benefits of an EV will exceed the tradeoffs/benefits of ICE vehicles. It will likely always be the case that a stop in an EV will take longer than filling up a gas tank, but the financial tradeoffs for acquiring that speed of refueling will be prohibitive for the norm consumer and the norm consumer typically does more than just fill their tank when driving long distances. They're not doing an F1 style efficient refueling stop.

The norm consumer is not going to pay 15% more for a vehicle upfront and 3x as much on an ongoing basis to save 10 minutes every 4 hours of driving, because the norm person isn't driving routinely driving 9 hours in a day.

Right now an EV is still relatively an enthusiast product, and an ICE vehicle is the practical product. That will generally reverse by 2035.

The appropriate way to analyze technology is to look at what the best forms of the technology is doing today and then understanding that the best becomes the norm over time provided that the market persists long enough to make the best the norm. With China at 50% market penetration and Europe at 30% penetration the scenario where EV demand collapses is approaching 0% likelihood.

A Model 3 LR RWD gets ~4.9 miles/kWh. A Porsche Taycan gets 70% battery charge in 15 minutes. Combine the efficiency of the Model 3 with the charging capabilities of a Taycan and you get a vehicle that drives 350 miles on an initial charge and adds 270 miles on a recharge in 15 minutes. Or one 10 minute maximum loss of time for every 4 hours of driving beyond the initial range capacity.

The problem for EVs previously was whether there was going to be enough electricity production/infrastructure expansion to permit their adoption, because it's an enthusiast device now, but with the expansion of AI training requirements, which is a broadly useful technology to society with substantial energy demands the rapidity of energy additions has to improve and EVs can piggyback on that energy demand expansion requirements.

Teslag said:

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Fido has had his Tesla long enough to know the actual range and where to charge. He put himself in a bad situation and blamed the car.

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The question is if he has done many road trips or has he used it mostly as a daily driver and in locations with substantial number of superchargers like DFW.

B/CS has a second and I think third location coming but the only one there now is no where near big enough for game day crowds.

FIDO*98* said:

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Super awesome time waiting 20 minutes in line and another 20 to charge trying to get out of College Station today. Disregard any positive comments I may have said on previous pages. So sick of this car. I'll absolutely never own another EV

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This lines up with those surveys a few pages back showing people who bought an EV won't buy another one.

Yet their market share continues to grow

hph6203 said:

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The point is that if EVs are going to be a mainstream product a person shouldn't have to consider those circumstances to avoid issues. EVs are still in the early phase of adoption. The consistent theme on this thread is some people deny the problems that exist with EVs and others believe those problems are unlikely to be resolved.

The charging issues appear to be one that is going to be resolved by the end of the decade from an onboard hardware/charging hardware standpoint. In other words the ideal scenario will be lacking in significant inconvenience. Turning that ideal scenario into the norm scenario might take another decade. Over that same period the cost down/rapidity of production for EVs is going to improve at a rate faster than ICE vehicles can keep up.

Meaning that a comparable EV to an ICE vehicle by 2035 is going to be cheaper and more performant and the totality of tradeoffs/benefits of an EV will exceed the tradeoffs/benefits of ICE vehicles. It will likely always be the case that a stop in an EV will take longer than filling up a gas tank, but the financial tradeoffs for acquiring that speed of refueling will be prohibitive for the norm consumer and the norm consumer typically does more than just fill their tank when driving long distances. They're not doing an F1 style efficient refueling stop.

The norm consumer is not going to pay 15% more for a vehicle upfront and 3x as much on an ongoing basis to save 10 minutes every 4 hours of driving, because the norm person isn't driving routinely driving 9 hours in a day.

Right now an EV is still relatively an enthusiast product, and an ICE vehicle is the practical product. That will generally reverse by 2035.

The appropriate way to analyze technology is to look at what the best forms of the technology is doing today and then understanding that the best becomes the norm over time provided that the market persists long enough to make the best the norm. With China at 50% market penetration and Europe at 30% penetration the scenario where EV demand collapses is approaching 0% likelihood.

A Model 3 LR RWD gets ~4.9 miles/kWh. A Porsche Taycan gets 70% battery charge in 15 minutes. Combine the efficiency of the Model 3 with the charging capabilities of a Taycan and you get a vehicle that drives 350 miles on an initial charge and adds 270 miles on a recharge in 15 minutes. Or one 10 minute maximum loss of time for every 4 hours of driving beyond the initial range capacity.

The problem for EVs previously was whether there was going to be enough electricity production/infrastructure expansion to permit their adoption, because it's an enthusiast device now, but with the expansion of AI training requirements, which is a broadly useful technology to society with substantial energy demands the rapidity of energy additions has to improve and EVs can piggyback on that energy demand expansion requirements.

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That will only reverse if the infrastructure of EV chargers gets built up enough. LOTS of people that would buy cars can't just charge them at home. So they would need charging stations around the area to solve that issue with them. And the same with longer trips - until the infrastructure is built up, the "range anxiety" will continue to be a real thing.

Now, I'm not saying those problems can't be solved. They obviously can. But, 2035 is an aggressive schedule. I'm not sure it could be done by then.

BTW, there's another phenomenon that hasn't really been addressed. Public acceptance - will the AVERAGE person buy one?

I had the example a month or so again when I almost rented a Rubicon until I realized it was the 4xe and didn't want to deal with having to find some charging stations in West Conshohocken, PA. And I'm a HUGE tech guy that thinks EVs are a good idea. I mean, without the mandates and *****

What about the average folks that aren't techies? They will always be more hesitant since it's a HUGE change from how they've always done things.

I also mentioned that it was a 4xe to another lady who was looking for a vehicle (you pick out your own vehicle) and she immediately balked. That's the stuff that will have to change first before broad adoption.

Teslag said:

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Yet their market share continues to grow

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Only a few more years and it'll hit double digits.

I assume there will be a party for that. Will there be cake? I like cake.

Will be less than that. Was at 8.9% 3rd qtr this year. Was 7% last year.

Teslag said:

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Will be less than that. Was at 8.9% 3rd qtr this year. Was 7% last year.

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Wow. If they keep up that rate of growth, they'll have 320% of the market in 15 years.

FIDO*98* said:

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Super awesome time waiting 20 minutes in line and another 20 to charge trying to get out of College Station today. Disregard any positive comments I may have said on previous pages. So sick of this car. I'll absolutely never own another EV

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so an extra 20-30 min on a Sunday after the biggest crowd in recentl history is also trying to leave? Seems more so like frustration from the game result than an EV commentary

Teslag said:

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Fido has had his Tesla long enough to know the actual range and where to charge. He put himself in a bad situation and blamed the car.

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Okay. I guess same goes for the 4-5 Teslas behind me in the charging line. The Tesla sucks. For the benefit of those who missed my post on the Auto board I'll post everything that sucks with the exception of the gas pedal. The doors suck, lack of turn signals sucks, no key fob sucks,, no button controls sucks, cheap interior sucks, cruise control is much much worse if you don't opt for the $8,000 FSD, seats are uncomfortable AF (subjective), and charging infrastructure sucks. The car flat out sucks unless you're trying to win a drag race

My boat has FLIR, drive by wire steering, auto-deploying and gps trolling motor, ets. I love technology. Tesla fixes a lot of crap that wasn't broken. They did it to save money and convinced Tesla fanboys it's better when it's not

My buddy couldn't get his trunk open for weeks. They finally fixed it. Now he can't get it to stay shut.

Why would you worry about renting a 4xe wrangler. You do know it has a gas motor, right? It is a plug in hybrid.

coolerguy12 said:

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My buddy couldn't get his trunk open for weeks. They finally fixed it. Now he can't get it to stay shut.

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Wife's windshield spray went out a while back. Only took 3 weeks to get it in and another week to fix

Your forgot to mention your struggle with the super heavy acceleration pedal

Very fatiguing

What is novel to the old is the norm to the young. People age into and out of prime new car buying age.

If a person has access to 120v/15a charging at home (standard outlet), their demands on public charging will be less than their demands on gas station fueling, by a lot. Meaning the number of visits to those sites will go down.

Using a Model Y as an example, a person that drives 40 miles in a typical day (more than the average daily commute by ~33%) would lose about 4 miles of their charge capacity every day by just using a 120v/15a charger. Meaning if they went to a public charger to reset to full like they do a gas station with an ICE car they'd have to go once every ~50 days. 1/5th as frequently as they would in a gas vehicle. If you bumped it to a 20a outlet it would be only in instances where they were likely using a public charger anyway.

There are also products gaining approval to simplify the installation for EV charging/solar installations where a device is installed behind the meter, but before the main panel to add level 2 charging capacity, meaning if you have a 100 amp capacity with no additional breaker slots you can add charging without replacing the entire panel reducing the cost from multiple thousands for those people to ~$1000 (around 1 year's worth of fuel and maintenance savings with an EV).


For something like a 3 row SUV or truck the frequency of visits to public charging would go up, but would still be less frequent than the norm frequency of gas station visits, and because those vehicles are inherently more expensive you're filtering out a lot of people that lack the funds or ability to add level 2 charging to their home.


The 2035 year would be an estimate of ~50% new vehicle market, which would still only be about ~20% (if that) of the nationwide fleet of vehicles and it would still take another 15-20 years before reaching market saturation/steady state adoption rates. By that point you're really deep into the possibility of autonomous vehicles having the capacity to go charge themselves at faster chargers without the owners having to be present/some individuals foregoing ownership of a vehicle in favor of using publicly available ride share.

Point being the probability of high EV adoption rates (>75%) over the next 30 years is higher than low EV adoption rates (<30%) due a variety of technological improvements with the platform (higher energy density batteries, faster charging, more efficient drive train, vehicle weight reduction) and parallel technologies that mitigate the downsides (autonomy).

With autonomy solved you can imagine scenarios where vehicles are purpose built for use cases, meaning around the city vehicles having enough capacity to make it through a day of driving (~40 kWh batteries) and some proportion being built for intermediate travel (100 kWh batteries) and long distance travel (200 kWh batteries) each being able to fulfill their duty cycles with very little downtime.

I am less tied to the timing of my expectations than the directionality of the expectations. Meaning it may be slower than I expect, but I'm confident about the end point, high EV adoption rates and autonomous driving being solved.

FIDO*98* said:

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Teslag said:

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Fido has had his Tesla long enough to know the actual range and where to charge. He put himself in a bad situation and blamed the car.

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Okay. I guess same goes for the 4-5 Teslas behind me in the charging line. The Tesla sucks. For the benefit of those who missed my post on the Auto board I'll post everything that sucks with the exception of the gas pedal. The doors suck, lack of turn signals sucks, no key fob sucks,, no button controls sucks, cheap interior sucks, cruise control is much much worse if you don't opt for the $8,000 FSD, seats are uncomfortable AF (subjective), and charging infrastructure sucks. The car flat out sucks unless you're trying to win a drag race

My boat has FLIR, drive by wire steering, auto-deploying and gps trolling motor, ets. I love technology. Tesla fixes a lot of crap that wasn't broken. They did it to save money and convinced Tesla fanboys it's better when it's not

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Devastating.

GAC06 said:

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Very fatiguing

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Pathetic how everyone keyed in on that comment because they were no valid arguments about every other point I made. The right pedal is still annoying compared to an ICE vehicle, but glad I gave you some lube to stroke each other off with

Can you DM pictures and asking price?

FIDO*98* said:

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GAC06 said:

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Very fatiguing

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Pathetic how everyone keyed in on that comment because they were no valid arguments about every other point I made. The right pedal is still annoying compared to an ICE vehicle, but glad I gave you some lube to stroke each other off with

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You seem angry. The sad part was you buying an economy car then comparing it to your "performance" car. If you had the performance model, you'd feel very differently, except about the door handles, turn signals, and of course the "fatiguing" pedal. That of course would deserve some teasing.

GAC06 said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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GAC06 said:

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Very fatiguing

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Pathetic how everyone keyed in on that comment because they were no valid arguments about every other point I made. The right pedal is still annoying compared to an ICE vehicle, but glad I gave you some lube to stroke each other off with

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You seem angry. The sad part was you buying an economy car then comparing it to your "performance" car. If you had the performance model, you'd feel very differently, except about the door handles, turn signals, and of course the "fatiguing" pedal. That of course would deserve some teasing.

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Nope. It's a company car so I hate it for free. Funny that you call the dual motor an "economy car" when it's a rounding error vs the "performance" model. Shaving a half second off the 0-60 time wouldn't make me like an ugly annoying car any better