They are everywhere where I live. Two in my garage at work now. I've seen one with a maroon wrap. Gotta be an Ag! but I wouldn't. Couldn't. Not because it's an EV, but because it's so different-looking and attracts sooo much attention still. It sure is unique though; i'll give it that.

Artorias said:

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I saw my first Cybertruck in the wild the other day in a parking lot. I drove over to get a closer look since I had only seen one online in pictures. Holy ****, that thing is even uglier in person. Looked like a cheap aluminum box on wheels. Utterly terrible design.

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What's the curb weight on those things. It can't be light.

6,600 to 6,800 lbs

tk for tu juan said:

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6,600 to 6,800 lbs

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Pretty heavy. What's the range on those with an empty payload?

nortex97 said:

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I've been told battery health is monitored electronically to ensure it is safe. But, Mini just recalled 4 years of EV cooper's for having been built with defective batteries that could lead to a fire:

Quote:

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MINI has initiated a voluntary safety recall affecting approximately 12,535 vehicles equipped with high-voltage batteries that may not have been produced according to specifications.

The recall targets all-electric Cooper SE models manufactured between March 21, 2019, and January 25, 2024, which may experience faults in the high-voltage battery or system. The safety risk associated with this issue is significant. In rare cases, these faults could cause the high-voltage battery to overheat, potentially resulting in a thermal eventmore commonly known as a fire even when the vehicle is not in operation.

MINI became aware of this risk following a field incident in October 2023 involving a MINI Hardtop 2 Door Cooper SE model in the U.S., where the vehicle caught fire. Further analysis identified isolation faults within the high-voltage battery, leading to a broader investigation.

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But don't worry folks, a new software patch is available. BMW has you covered.

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Yup. Cue the "over the air recall" lines for this defective wiring.

nortex97 said:

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Ford gives up on 3-row EV SUV. Not profitable.

Quote:

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As well as the three-row, Ford has also pushed back plans for a next-generation full-size electric pickup truck, which would replace the current F-150 Lightning model. The new model, dubbed "Project T3" by Ford, will now be delayed by up to 18 months as part of a reduction in spending on fully electric models. The truck's new launch date in 2027 means Ford will be able to make use of its lower-cost battery technology as well as other "cost breakthroughs" that could develop while the EV sector continues to evolve, Ford explained in a statement.

If there are two cars that you'd have thought would sell like hot cakes for Ford, it's a three-row SUV and a pickup truck. In the past, these categories have been real winners for the Blue Oval, with the three-row Explorer being Ford's best-selling SUV in 2023 and the F-Series trucks holding strong as the best-selling trucks in America for multiple decades.

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But market share keeps growing! It's growing so much everybody has to scale back production.

Oops

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hyundai-kia-outperform-ford-gm-in-u-s-ev-market-in-jan-july-period-report/ar-AA1p9481

Quote:

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SEOUL, Aug. 21 (Yonhap) -- The combined market share of electric vehicles produced by South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co. and Kia Corp. in the United States ranked second in the January-July period, outperforming local manufacturers Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Co., an industry report showed Wednesday.

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Acura can't sell their EVs so they're slashing prices by $30,000.

When we were assured EV prices would come down over time it was said to be because of economies of scale, not the wholesale dumping of unsold inventory.

https://electrek.co/2024/08/23/acura-slashes-nearly-30k-off-2024-zdx-undercuts-tesla-model-y/

This is a lease deal only available to owners of a competing EV. So they're getting the cars back. Or, offering them for sale to the leasee at end of lease I bet.

Teslag said:

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Oops

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hyundai-kia-outperform-ford-gm-in-u-s-ev-market-in-jan-july-period-report/ar-AA1p9481

Quote:

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SEOUL, Aug. 21 (Yonhap) -- The combined market share of electric vehicles produced by South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co. and Kia Corp. in the United States ranked second in the January-July period, outperforming local manufacturers Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Co., an industry report showed Wednesday.

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I've been assured by advocates who let us all know that they know these things, that Hyundai and Kia EVs suck.

Oops.

Except not. Hyundai/Kia probably make the best non-Tesla EVs in the market. They are still inferior to Tesla's vehicles for things that are largely out of their control (they don't have access to Tesla's super charging network in a way that makes it functional as the battery voltage and charging voltage don't presently play well with each other), but from a pure vehicle standpoint they are actually in some ways superior to Tesla's vehicles.


And all this "news" about Ford delaying larger vehicle EVs is not "news" as Jim Farley indicated as much months ago. The impetus behind that decision was that they determined that they actually kind of suck at cost control and cost control failures become even more problematic on larger vehicles, because they.... require larger batteries and associated systems. They have pivoted to making a smaller more affordable vehicle so they can better understand how to limit costs, be more competitive with Tesla's cost structure, so they can expand it to larger vehicles where they don't have to sell them at a loss. Smart strategy for a company that makes a reasonably competent vehicle from a consumer experience standpoint, but a financial drag from a company profitability standpoint.

The Acura ZDX is a rebadged Chevy Blazer EV.

nu awlins ag said:

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tk for tu juan said:

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6,600 to 6,800 lbs

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Pretty heavy. What's the range on those with an empty payload?

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IDK real world ranges for them. Specs are on the website

hph6203 said:

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Except not. Hyundai/Kia probably make the best non-Tesla EVs in the market. They are still inferior to Tesla's vehicles for things that are largely out of their control (they don't have access to Tesla's super charging network in a way that makes it functional as the battery voltage and charging voltage don't presently play well with each other), but from a pure vehicle standpoint they are actually in some ways superior to Tesla's vehicles.

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Typical comment from an EVangelist on a thread about a journalist driving cross country from NOLA to Chicago and back:

aggrad02 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Quote:

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I Rented an Electric Car for a Four-Day Road Trip. I Spent More Time Charging It Than I Did Sleeping.

Our writer drove from New Orleans to Chicago and back to test the feasibility of taking a road trip in an EV. She wouldn't soon do it again.

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-rented-an-electric-car-for-a-four-day-road-trip-i-spent-more-time-charging-it-than-i-did-sleeping-11654268401

So, a reporter takes a friend on a "quick"round trip from New Orleans to Chicago. The catch: they have a deadline on when to get back.

Armed with an app showing where charging stations are, they head out planning to stop twice for fast charging and then overnight. Immediately they run into problems. Some stations marked fast on the app are slow. Car dealerships where some of these stations are have clueless employees. They miss their dinner reservations in Nashville. Lots of stops for charging slow them down. One stop took three hours to fill up enough to go 30 miles to a fast charging station.

On the way back they hit heavy storms and the car sucked up extra power going through them. They slept 4 hours at their hotel to make up time, came very close to running out of juice in the storm, and got back with only half an hour to spare on their deadline.

The reporter decided she would not do it again.

Meanwhile this scenario will continue to play out as our politicians force us to adopt EVs. Say goodbye to convenience. Need to make a quick trip to another town? Better figure an additional 5 hours or so for charging. Better hope all the chargers are working and that there's not a line of other EVs waiting to use it.

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She took a Kia…. That explains a lot.

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Just going by what we've been told over the years.

hph6203 said:

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They are still inferior to Tesla's vehicles for things that are largely out of their control (they don't have access to Tesla's super charging network in a way that makes it functional as the battery voltage and charging voltage don't presently play well with each other), but from a pure vehicle standpoint they are actually in some ways superior to Tesla's vehicles.

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Can't read can you? They also, by comparison, have poor route planning, which is where Rivian/Ford surpass them, but the actual hardware of the Kia/Hyundai lineup beats Tesla/Rivian/Ford, because they actually have the capability of charging 10-80% in ~18 minutes.

EVs are new in relative terms to ICE vehicles. That creates a situation where manufacturers do not yet know best practices/consumer expectations and desires and they have to assume what thresholds they have to meet in order to match those expectations. Tesla's charging infrastructure is good, their vehicle charging capabilities have fallen behind the competition. Rivian's design is good, but their charging experience is inferior (compared to the best available), Kia/Hyundai's peak charging rate is good, but their route planning and charging infrastructure isn't. Ford has reasonably good software and reasonably good hardware and reasonably good build quality, but their cost structure is bad. What happens over time is that the market converges on best practices where the "unknown" ideal process becomes less and the areas where experimentation becomes less.

That's why in Nortex's blogger article that referenced another article by Wired about the depreciation of EVs stated that one of the primary reasons that is occurring is because each iterative model is substantially more refined than the previous model, causing a scenario where consumers prefer to buy new over buying old. That effect diminishes as the market matures.

hph6203 said:

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hph6203 said:

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They are still inferior to Tesla's vehicles for things that are largely out of their control (they don't have access to Tesla's super charging network in a way that makes it functional as the battery voltage and charging voltage don't presently play well with each other), but from a pure vehicle standpoint they are actually in some ways superior to Tesla's vehicles.

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Can't read can you?

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I admire your stinging wit and stubborn obsessiveness. Never change, ma'am. Never change.

ETA: glad to see you went back and added some expository context.

The Kia/Hyundai vehicles may have super fast charging capabilities but with the reliance on the public fast charging infrastructure in the US, it is almost worthless. If a car can access the Tesla network, road trips are very doable in all but the most remote parts of the US but they will take up to 10-15% longer than an ICE.

If you can't and you have to rely on ChargePoint and friends, good luck. You're going to need a lot of it.

My obsessiveness? You're the one insisting on acting like a 12 year old troll. You have zero knowledge and an abundance of snark.

Sales are down in the US.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a61927470/electric-vehicle-sales-winners-and-losers/

Quote:

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There's no question that electric vehicle sales are down, but not by large amounts. According to the Argonne National Laboratory, a total of 122,997 plug-in vehicles (100,677 battery electrics and 22,329 plug-in hybrids) sold to US customers in July. Is that less than the same month a year ago? Yes, but only by 1.2%.
…
In terms of brands via the KBB.com Electric Vehicle Sales Report, Tesla's EV market share is sinking (to 49.7%), but the company is still the sales leader by a wide margin, with 162,264 vehicles sold in the second quarter, but that story is well known.

Ford did modestly well, with 23,957 EVs moved in Q2. Ford sold more than 24,000 F-150 Lightning trucks in 2023, a 55% sales increase from 2022, but then it hit slower sales. GM was not far behind Ford, delivering 21,930 EVs in the second quarter, up 40% year over year.

Kia, benefiting from smart design and affordable pricing, saw 17,980 EVs sold in the US during the second quarter, up 135% from 7,636 of the same period in 2023. The three-row EV9 alone sold 9,671. Hyundai, with the same advantages, was right behind, with 16,815, showing the strength of the Ioniq brand.

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A few thousand for this brand, a few thousand for that brand, after a while it adds up.

It wouldn't be my top recommendation for an EV, but I look at EVs moreso as "good" or "bad" from a standpoint of whether the company demonstrates that they actually understand what an EV needs in at least some aspects. Some companies like Tesla, Kia/Hyundai, Rivian, and Ford appear to be on a pathway to making an EV that someone would actually be universally happy with (not that there wouldn't be room for improvement. And then there are other manufacturers where the experience is generally bad. That's also a generally U.S. centric assessment, because in Europe/Asia Kia/Hyundai are extremely competitive/competent as their charging infrastructure is better/more standardized than ours.

For all but Tesla I would say most people are better off waiting to allow the market to determine best practices, and if you're not enthusiastic about buying an EV then you probably shouldn't yet. They are not mature enough for an average person to own one without getting annoyed. Had a friend buy a Tesla and I tried to talk him out of it, because he's the kind of person that gets easily annoyed and despite that it's actually his favorite car that he's owned and he's actually been on several 500+ mile road trips.

This is coming from someone who almost bought an X and have already increased deposit on Cybertruck from $250 to $1000 to lock in production.

We had an employee rent an X this week to test out charging with our fleet card. She arrived at work with 130 miles, after a short lunch trip she was down to 40. We drove around to find a public charger. EV Go wasn't working, Blink didn't work and the Chargepoint didn't work. Barely made it to a Tesla charger with 10 miles left.

Let's just say that two of the people that really wanted EV no longer wanted an EV. Couldn't imagine if it wasn't a Tesla how much worse it would have been. I'm still on the fence about the Cybertruck and I'm the biggest fan I know.

Premium said:

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This is coming from someone who almost bought an X and have already increased deposit on Cybertruck from $250 to $1000 to lock in production.

We had an employee rent an X this week to test out charging with our fleet card. She arrived at work with 130 miles, after a short lunch trip she was down to 40. We drove around to find a public charger. EV Go wasn't working, Blink didn't work and the Chargepoint didn't work. Barely made it to a Tesla charger with 10 miles left.

Let's just say that two of the people that really wanted EV no longer wanted an EV. Couldn't imagine if it wasn't a Tesla how much worse it would have been. I'm still on the fence about the Cybertruck and I'm the biggest fan I know.

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This happens time and again. Upthread we've seen studies showing new EV buyers often don't go back. Early adopters still love them but regular car buyers are often turned off.

Hybrid is the only way to go. Bought my junior at A&M a Honda Accord hybrid and it is nice. Can't replace my BMW with a battery car….not gonna happen.

Not everyone likes to go fast I guess

5% aren't satisfied with their EV or hybrid based on this survey from earlier this year. I suppose that is many that regret buying an EV since many is more than 10 people.

"95% of EV and hybrid car owners were satisfied with their current vehicles. By comparison, 89% of people with gas-powered cars were satisfied with their vehicles overall.
55% of electric and hybrid vehicle owners said they'd recommend their car to family or friends. In contrast, only 31% of drivers with gas-powered cars would recommend their vehicles."

Note, there are things highlighted that some say they wish they knew before buying especially the charging infrastructure, potential battery replacement cost and full cost of ownership but that didn't keep them from being happier on average than ICE drivers.

https://www.autoinsurance.com/articles/what-ev-owners-learned-shifting-away-gas-powered-cars/#

GAC06 said:

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Not everyone likes to go fast I guess

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In my story above we rented the X Plaid, and it was very fast but the stress of not being able to easily charge is a huge turnoff. I would suggest someone rent off of Turo for a week or two before buying.

Yes, if your use case doesn't involve charging at home the vast majority of the time it will be less convenient than an ICE vehicle. I will very very rarely need to charge outside of my garage so for me it's more convenient than ICE. Also some learning seems to have been involved there regarding crappy non-Tesla charge stations.

The new BMW M5 is an interesting case, it's only being offered as a plug-in hybrid, and it's slower and heavier than the previous model. Interesting to see how their sales do to buy a 5400lb sedan that's slower and 2-3 times as expensive as the similarly sized Tesla.

Premium said:

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GAC06 said:

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Not everyone likes to go fast I guess

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In my story above we rented the X Plaid, and it was very fast but the stress of not being able to easily charge is a huge turnoff. I would suggest someone rent off of Turo for a week or two before buying.

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Did the rental come with a charge cord so you would have been able to charge at home assuming you have access to a 220 plug (you can use 110 but that is almost worthless with only 3-4 miles added per hour)? If not, I can't imagine a rental ever being an enjoyable experience because as you experienced, the non Tesla charging network systems suck and even Tesla's aren't convenient for everyday use

Premium said:

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GAC06 said:

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Not everyone likes to go fast I guess

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In my story above we rented the X Plaid, and it was very fast but the stress of not being able to easily charge is a huge turnoff. I would suggest someone rent off of Turo for a week or two before buying.

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If you can't charge at home with at 220v outlet there's no equal use case to compare

GAC06 said:

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Yes, if your use case doesn't involve charging at home the vast majority of the time it will be less convenient than an ICE vehicle. I will very very rarely need to charge outside of my garage so for me it's more convenient than ICE. Also some learning seems to have been involved there regarding crappy non-Tesla charge stations.

The new BMW M5 is an interesting case, it's only being offered as a plug-in hybrid, and it's slower and heavier than the previous model. Interesting to see how their sales do to buy a 5400lb sedan that's slower and 2-3 times as expensive as the similarly sized Tesla.

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We have a plug in hybrid bmw and it is very easy to charge. I see why it's easier than ice in most garage circumstances, but if you have a low range vehicle in hot Texas weather, even running around a metroplex or large city could have you at public stations

On the topic of public electric charging companies, seems like a great segment to short.

What do you consider low range?

Teslag said:

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What do you consider low range?

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Starting around 300-350 IMO, it seems like Texas heat reduces that capacity quite a bit to not really be as much as it says.

My Tesla has a claimed 300 mile range. Charged to 80%, my 120ish mile round trip commute gets me home with about 35% this summer, right about what they advertise, and I don't drive slow.

Premium said:

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On the topic of public electric charging companies, seems like a great segment to short.

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I made a lot of money shorting ChargePoint a few years ago. I wouldn't now only because it is down over 95% from the high already. Now the risk would be you get killed by a GameStop type squeeze or a car company decides to buy them to try to duplicate what Tesla has done.