Thx. That's probably a national average, yet I bet in the summer in Texas that cost is much higher (such as our 20 day run of 100 degree days up here in north Texas). Most dealers leave them sitting out to bake in the sun and I think that requires the battery to run the heat pump/thermal management etc. just sitting there quite a bit. This would also add wear to the critical cooling system components prior to delivery if it sat around all summer/spring etc.

There's some pretty serious lease deals on electric cars right now. Like sub 300/month on some ... I'm almost tempted just for a cheap around town car

I saw a story this week showing a Chinese EV battery getting charged from zero to 82% full in ten minutes.

I don't know what Tesla or other EV autos are charging at, but that's significantly faster than I thought it would be. I'm used to hearing about thirty minutes or longer charge times

If anyone has more info on batteries charging that fast please share. It'll be nice to see if there's anything over here charging close to that.

cryption said:

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There's some pretty serious lease deals on electric cars right now. Like sub 300/month on some ... I'm almost tempted just for a cheap around town car

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Don't do it. Burn your house down.

Europe continues to drag overall Tesla sales down.

https://electrek.co/2024/08/13/tesla-doing-well-china-but-sales-slumping-europe/

Quote:

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For the first time in years, Tesla's deliveries have been down in the first half of the year compared to the same period last year.

The last time Tesla had a quarter down year-over-year was during the early days of the pandemic, but even then, the automaker recovered quickly and it was up the next quarter.

This is the first time Tesla's deliveries have been down year-to-year for two quarters in a row since it became a major automaker.

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Its still too damn expensive

nortex97 said:

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Thx. That's probably a national average, yet I bet in the summer in Texas that cost is much higher (such as our 20 day run of 100 degree days up here in north Texas). Most dealers leave them sitting out to bake in the sun and I think that requires the battery to run the heat pump/thermal management etc. just sitting there quite a bit. This would also add wear to the critical cooling system components prior to delivery if it sat around all summer/spring etc.

---

Only if you run cabin temperature control would you drain materially more than that and at least in Tesla's that set by the user. There is no reason to do that if the car is being stored just like you don't run the engine to keep the interior of an ICE cool.

If you are going to keep the cabins cool, the EV will be a lot more efficient than the ICE per hour of cooling. Typical EV would be 1-1.5 kw/hr or around $0.15-0.20 per hour vs 0.5 to 1.0 gallons of gas or diesel per hour.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Its still too damn expensive

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Do you want to do the analysis on the cost to sit an ICE? As just one example of sitting an EV, you need to change the oil every year or so even if it doesn't run. Oil change, $75-100/yr. One year of phantom drain is around $30-40 and if that is really bothersome, it can be reduced.

There are a number of reasons to not buy an EV but this isn't one of them.

The real cost of a car sitting in a dealership lot is the interest expense to cover the inventory cost and potential discounts that need to be offered if you get to the end of the model year or worse.

No, my response was to the article about inventory, not ev costs.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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The epitome of brоwn entitlement. pic.twitter.com/UQHuoI4hpR

— MuhSocioFactors (@Muhsoci0factors) August 15, 2024

The audacity. Trashy caption, but this woman puled into his driveway to charge her car using his charger.

---

1 million views now.

Sorry, I thought you were replying to the other post.

Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Thx. That's probably a national average, yet I bet in the summer in Texas that cost is much higher (such as our 20 day run of 100 degree days up here in north Texas). Most dealers leave them sitting out to bake in the sun and I think that requires the battery to run the heat pump/thermal management etc. just sitting there quite a bit. This would also add wear to the critical cooling system components prior to delivery if it sat around all summer/spring etc.

---

Only if you run cabin temperature control would you drain materially more than that and at least in Tesla's that set by the user. There is no reason to do that if the car is being stored just like you don't run the engine to keep the interior of an ICE cool.

If you are going to keep the cabins cool, the EV will be a lot more efficient than the ICE per hour of cooling. Typical EV would be 1-1.5 kw/hr or around $0.15-0.20 per hour vs 0.5 to 1.0 gallons of gas or diesel per hour.

---

I want to believe you, but I can't fathom leaving for instance my iphone outside for a couple days in the summer, even in the shade, on airplane mode, and it not dropping precipitously in charge. If you're saying the lithium batteries in cars don't experience a similar drop when over 140 degrees for hours on end, I am curious why that is.

nortex97 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Thx. That's probably a national average, yet I bet in the summer in Texas that cost is much higher (such as our 20 day run of 100 degree days up here in north Texas). Most dealers leave them sitting out to bake in the sun and I think that requires the battery to run the heat pump/thermal management etc. just sitting there quite a bit. This would also add wear to the critical cooling system components prior to delivery if it sat around all summer/spring etc.

---

Only if you run cabin temperature control would you drain materially more than that and at least in Tesla's that set by the user. There is no reason to do that if the car is being stored just like you don't run the engine to keep the interior of an ICE cool.

If you are going to keep the cabins cool, the EV will be a lot more efficient than the ICE per hour of cooling. Typical EV would be 1-1.5 kw/hr or around $0.15-0.20 per hour vs 0.5 to 1.0 gallons of gas or diesel per hour.

---

I want to believe you, but I can't fathom leaving for instance my iphone outside for a couple days in the summer, even in the shade, on airplane mode, and it not dropping precipitously in charge. If you're saying the lithium batteries in cars don't experience a similar drop when over 140 degrees for hours on end, I am curious why that is.

---

And how will they get to 140 degrees? They aren't exposed to the sun so they don't get solar radiation on the batteries. The battery temperature will be close to ambient temperature. Just like in the winter they get to the actual temperature outside and not the windchill (but of course the wind will get them to ambient temperatures faster)

nortex97 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Thx. That's probably a national average, yet I bet in the summer in Texas that cost is much higher (such as our 20 day run of 100 degree days up here in north Texas). Most dealers leave them sitting out to bake in the sun and I think that requires the battery to run the heat pump/thermal management etc. just sitting there quite a bit. This would also add wear to the critical cooling system components prior to delivery if it sat around all summer/spring etc.

---

Only if you run cabin temperature control would you drain materially more than that and at least in Tesla's that set by the user. There is no reason to do that if the car is being stored just like you don't run the engine to keep the interior of an ICE cool.

If you are going to keep the cabins cool, the EV will be a lot more efficient than the ICE per hour of cooling. Typical EV would be 1-1.5 kw/hr or around $0.15-0.20 per hour vs 0.5 to 1.0 gallons of gas or diesel per hour.

---

I want to believe you, but I can't fathom leaving for instance my iphone outside for a couple days in the summer, even in the shade, on airplane mode, and it not dropping precipitously in charge. If you're saying the lithium batteries in cars don't experience a similar drop when over 140 degrees for hours on end, I am curious why that is.

---

Tesla says to expect to lose about 1% per day if left unplugged, maybe worse if it's cold. I just left mine in my garage for eight days unplugged and lost 5%. Granted that's in a garage, not in the sun outside but it's still pretty hot in a garage in N Texas.

GAC06 said:

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nortex97 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Thx. That's probably a national average, yet I bet in the summer in Texas that cost is much higher (such as our 20 day run of 100 degree days up here in north Texas). Most dealers leave them sitting out to bake in the sun and I think that requires the battery to run the heat pump/thermal management etc. just sitting there quite a bit. This would also add wear to the critical cooling system components prior to delivery if it sat around all summer/spring etc.

---

Only if you run cabin temperature control would you drain materially more than that and at least in Tesla's that set by the user. There is no reason to do that if the car is being stored just like you don't run the engine to keep the interior of an ICE cool.

If you are going to keep the cabins cool, the EV will be a lot more efficient than the ICE per hour of cooling. Typical EV would be 1-1.5 kw/hr or around $0.15-0.20 per hour vs 0.5 to 1.0 gallons of gas or diesel per hour.

---

I want to believe you, but I can't fathom leaving for instance my iphone outside for a couple days in the summer, even in the shade, on airplane mode, and it not dropping precipitously in charge. If you're saying the lithium batteries in cars don't experience a similar drop when over 140 degrees for hours on end, I am curious why that is.

---

Tesla says to expect to lose about 1% per day if left unplugged, maybe worse if it's cold. I just left mine in my garage for eight days unplugged and lost 5%. Granted that's in a garage, not in the sun outside but it's still pretty hot in a garage in N Texas.

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It's brand new...

Give it time...give it time...

Ag with kids said:

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GAC06 said:

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nortex97 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Thx. That's probably a national average, yet I bet in the summer in Texas that cost is much higher (such as our 20 day run of 100 degree days up here in north Texas). Most dealers leave them sitting out to bake in the sun and I think that requires the battery to run the heat pump/thermal management etc. just sitting there quite a bit. This would also add wear to the critical cooling system components prior to delivery if it sat around all summer/spring etc.

---

Only if you run cabin temperature control would you drain materially more than that and at least in Tesla's that set by the user. There is no reason to do that if the car is being stored just like you don't run the engine to keep the interior of an ICE cool.

If you are going to keep the cabins cool, the EV will be a lot more efficient than the ICE per hour of cooling. Typical EV would be 1-1.5 kw/hr or around $0.15-0.20 per hour vs 0.5 to 1.0 gallons of gas or diesel per hour.

---

I want to believe you, but I can't fathom leaving for instance my iphone outside for a couple days in the summer, even in the shade, on airplane mode, and it not dropping precipitously in charge. If you're saying the lithium batteries in cars don't experience a similar drop when over 140 degrees for hours on end, I am curious why that is.

---

Tesla says to expect to lose about 1% per day if left unplugged, maybe worse if it's cold. I just left mine in my garage for eight days unplugged and lost 5%. Granted that's in a garage, not in the sun outside but it's still pretty hot in a garage in N Texas.

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It's brand new...

Give it time...give it time...

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Scary stuff!

https://m.arenaev.com/teslas_electric_cars_are_built_to_last_according_to_battery_degradation_data-amp-3651.php

"Recent data from Tesla's 2023 Impact Report sheds light on the battery longevity of its popular Model 3 and Model Y electric vehicles. For those who plan on keeping their Teslas for the long haul or buying second hand, the news is good. The data reveals that after 200,000 miles of use, these EVs retain an average of 85% of their original battery capacity."

Devastating!

Had a Toro riding mower for 8 years and bought it used. Decided to look on FB for a newer model and ended up buying a used Ryobi electric mower for about 1/2 off of what a new one cost.

After the 3rd use, the mower blades would shut off within seconds of me engaging them to start. Called the manufacturer and was told that I needed to get new batteries. This dang mower had 4 batteries. Tried to find them here in town but nobody has them in stock so but I was quoted about $300 each! It also took a few hours to replace them, as it generally takes only a few minutes to replace a car battery.

Ended up buying them on Amazon for about $200 each after taxes. Crazy price that just one of these batteries costs twice as much as a car battery and may last 1/2 the amount of time.
And this mower needs 4 batteries and not just 1!!

I quickly decided that this will be the last electric mower that I ever buy. It's just not economical. I can pay someone to do my yard for a similar price at this cost if I have to purchase new batteries every 2-3 years....

What model of the Ryobi mower needs 4 batteries?

Electrify America to punish customers who charge to 100 percent.

Quote:

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While getting a full tank is a familiar concept for ICE drivers, "brimming" an EV battery isn't quite as simple. Many fast chargers can quickly recharge a depleted EV battery to 80 percent of its capacity. But topping off a battery with that last 20 percent usually takes a lot longer.

According to Robert Barrosa, president of Electrify America, fast chargers shouldn't be used for that kind of recharge. So, the company will be rolling out a strict 85 percent charge limit at 10 of its busiest Californian charge stations. Power will be cut off at 85 percent, and if drivers don't unplug their EVs after a 10-minute grace window, they'll be charged an additional 40 cents per minute as "idle time."

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LOL, enough said.

Tesla has been doing it for a while but it is 100% charge and then the idle fees kick in if most of the charging stations are in use.

ETA, you don't want to regularly charge your EV above 80% due to battery degradation. This is the real killer of battery life and not fast charging like you frequently claim.

Kansas Kid said:

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What model of the Ryobi mower needs 4 batteries?

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ZT480

war hymn aggie said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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What model of the Ryobi mower needs 4 batteries?

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ZT480

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Interesting that they went with the old style lead battery for the unit. The OEM manufacturer says they should be good for 300 cycles if fully discharged each time but they are probably like almost every battery I have purchased for my car, they never seem to last anywhere near as long as they claim.

Kansas Kid said:

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Tesla has been doing it for a while but it is 100% charge and then the idle fees kick in if most of the charging stations are in use.

ETA, you don't want to regularly charge your EV above 80% due to battery degradation. This is the real killer of battery life and not fast charging like you frequently claim.

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When traveling long distances it actually takes longer to charge from 100 to 100 at each station than it does 80 to 80.

Kansas Kid said:

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Tesla has been doing it for a while but it is 100% charge and then the idle fees kick in if most of the charging stations are in use.

ETA, you don't want to regularly charge your EV above 80% due to battery degradation. This is the real killer of battery life and not fast charging like you frequently claim.

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In other words, when we read things like "300 mile range EV" we should read "240 mile range if it's 60 to 80 or so degrees?"

No, because you'll still should and can charge to 100 from your home starting point.

Teslag said:

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No, because you'll still should and can charge to 100 from your home starting point.

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So, if Kansas kid is right that charging to 100 percent leads to battery degradation, and your intervening post recommending 80 percent for stops, then for a long trip you advise degrading the battery for the initial leg, then charging to 80 percent at subsequent intervals…I don't think the average American/EV owner adheres to these practices.

This all sounds much more impractical than I'd have thought. And I still don't think it's easy to check if a used BEV has been 'regularly' charged to 100 percent, if that is something that degrades the custom battery pack. Physical changes in the cells (SEI growth/faradaic degradation etc.) are not something that is easily tracked electronically, in any case.

Charging to 100 for periodic long trips is fine and won't result degradation. Charging to 100 every single time you charge is bad. And while you can't see how many times your Tesla has been charged to 100, you can easily see degradation status in the service menu.

Kansas Kid said:

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Tesla has been doing it for a while but it is 100% charge and then the idle fees kick in if most of the charging stations are in use.

ETA, you don't want to regularly charge your EV above 80% due to battery degradation. This is the real killer of battery life and not fast charging like you frequently claim.

---

I have been told that Tesla batteries last to 100,000 miles easy. Battery life should not be killed by real world use from what I understand, as told by those who should know.

Defensive accessory for charging stops?

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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No, because you'll still should and can charge to 100 from your home starting point.

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So, if Kansas kid is right that charging to 100 percent leads to battery degradation, and your intervening post recommending 80 percent for stops, then for a long trip you advise degrading the battery for the initial leg, then charging to 80 percent at subsequent intervals…I don't think the average American/EV owner adheres to these practices.

This all sounds much more impractical than I'd have thought. And I still don't think it's easy to check if a used BEV has been 'regularly' charged to 100 percent, if that is something that degrades the custom battery pack. Physical changes in the cells (SEI growth/faradaic degradation etc.) are not something that is easily tracked electronically, in any case.

---

I don't understand why you think it is so hard to see battery health when you can easily see the percentage of original capacity a car still has. It is simple math and if action of the driver or age of car have degraded cells, it shows in the max range for the car at that point in time. The Tesla app also has a way to run a diagnostic on the entire system to see if there is an issue. I assume many other EVs have a similar capability. Then again, the fact you didn't know that EV owners are advised (and everyone I know follows the advice) to not charge over 80% on a daily basis shows you really don't know what you are talking about with EVs in real world use. There is no reason to charge 100% on a daily basis assuming you can charge at home because most people don't drive more than 200-300 miles per day.

I again will say an EV isn't for everyone but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be. My friend and I took his LR Model S on a road trip. We started with a full charge which for him was just under 400 miles of rated range. We went 315 miles before our first charging stop. We then added about 260 miles of rated range in 20 minutes when the car said it had enough to make the final destination which was 196 miles away. (Ok, we actually added more because we weren't done eating when the car said it was ready). We then went to the destination. Total miles driven, 575 miles. Total charging time 20 minutes if the humans would have been ready. In other words, we did 8 1/2 hours of driving and never waited on the car to charge.

techno-ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Tesla has been doing it for a while but it is 100% charge and then the idle fees kick in if most of the charging stations are in use.

ETA, you don't want to regularly charge your EV above 80% due to battery degradation. This is the real killer of battery life and not fast charging like you frequently claim.

---

I have been told that Tesla batteries last to 100,000 miles easy. Battery life should not be killed by real world use from what I understand, as told by those who should know.

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There is no need to charge to 100% every time in real world use.

Teslag said:

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techno-ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Tesla has been doing it for a while but it is 100% charge and then the idle fees kick in if most of the charging stations are in use.

ETA, you don't want to regularly charge your EV above 80% due to battery degradation. This is the real killer of battery life and not fast charging like you frequently claim.

---

I have been told that Tesla batteries last to 100,000 miles easy. Battery life should not be killed by real world use from what I understand, as told by those who should know.

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There is no need to charge to 100% every time in real world use.

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And even if you are the rare person that does it, it will still last to 100,000 miles based on real world data. You might start risking the 200,000 mile range though.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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The epitome of brоwn entitlement. pic.twitter.com/UQHuoI4hpR

— MuhSocioFactors (@Muhsoci0factors) August 15, 2024

The audacity. Trashy caption, but this woman puled into his driveway to charge her car using his charger.

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I would have blocked the car in and called a tow truck.

Kansas Kid said:

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Teslag said:

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techno-ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Tesla has been doing it for a while but it is 100% charge and then the idle fees kick in if most of the charging stations are in use.

ETA, you don't want to regularly charge your EV above 80% due to battery degradation. This is the real killer of battery life and not fast charging like you frequently claim.

---

I have been told that Tesla batteries last to 100,000 miles easy. Battery life should not be killed by real world use from what I understand, as told by those who should know.

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There is no need to charge to 100% every time in real world use.

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And even if you are the rare person that does it, it will still last to 100,000 miles based on real world data. You might start risking the 200,000 mile range though.

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To be clear, are we putting an asterisk/disclaimer on the 85% through 200k claim? Does the car require manual override to go above 80%?