nortex97 said:

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BEV's taking such a hit, Tesla is laying people off;

Quote:

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EV Sales Growth Slows; Market Leader Tesla Stalls

While annual EV sales continue to grow in the U.S. market, the growth rate has slowed notably. Sales in Q1 rose 2.6% year over year, but fell 15.2% compared to Q4 2023. The increase last quarter was well below the previous two years.

In Q1 2023, EV sales volumes were up 46.4% year over year and 15.5% quarter over quarter. In Q1 2022, EV sales were higher by 81.2% year over year and 20.4% higher than the previous quarter.

...Notably, lower prices have supported EV sales volume in the U.S., particularly for key Tesla models. The average transaction price for a new EV in Q1 was $55,167, a 9.0% decrease compared to Q1 2023 and down 3.8% quarter over quarter. Tesla's average transaction price was $52,315 in Q1, down roughly 13.5% year over year. However, lower prices did not generate higher volume.

Many automakers have followed Tesla's lead and slashed prices. Incentive spending on EVs has increased notably in the past year, another sign of slowing demand. Leasing, too, has increased. In Q1, roughly 27% of all EVs were leased, more than double from the year before. With leasing, many buyers can qualify for the full $7,500 incentive the Inflation Reduction Act offers.

One bright spot in Q1: Strong EV sales from luxury makers, suggesting the EV market continues to be luxury-driven. Cadillac achieved a 499.2% year-over-year increase in electric vehicle sales due to robust sales of its Lyriq model. At Mercedes, EV sales were up 66.9%. BMW posted a 62.6% increase in EV sales compared to Q1 2023. At Audi, Q1 EV sales grew 28.8% year over year.

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Quote:

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Blistering op-eds are in newspapers everywhere, ripping states for forcing illogical, impractical, and hugely expensive EV mandates on residents.

Quote:

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OPINION: The EV elite are putting thousands of Americans out of work with repeat layoffs
There are times when we all must wonder if Santa Fe is in a different time zone. For example: when it is 2:30 p.m. in Las Cruces, politicians in Santa Fe are still pretending it's 2021. In the most glaring example, it's clear the electric vehicle bubble has burst, except the news hasn't reached Santa Fe.

That would be the only way to rationally explain the state Environmental Improvement Board's recent decision to continue to force Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham's electric vehicle mandate. Putting aside the fact the governor's mandate disrupts the free market just so she can push her agenda, it also is completely devoid of the reality current taking place.

Last year, less than 8% of all vehicles sold were electric. Supporters hail this result as a threshold moment meant to usher in the future of their glorified golf carts. However, as the first quarter of 2024 came to a close, it looks like electric vehicles may be following the path of laser disks and New Coke.

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Rumors swirled early this morning that Tesla, the king of the EVs, was preparing to announce layoffs of as many as 20% of its global workforcean unthinkable event even a year ago. Clearly, some adjustments were going to have be made. Not only were there production issues (European labor unions, etc) and supply problems beyond Tesla's control, but the simple fact remains that demand had dropped off.

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I'm not celebrating people getting laid off, but I am glad the pushback keeps gaining steam.

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They forget all the people they claim build the country, the same people that they are continuing to allow to flood the country, don 't care about EVs or can afford them. They like most hard-working people just want to get to work.

nortex97 said:

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BEV's taking such a hit, Tesla is laying people off;

Quote:

---

EV Sales Growth Slows; Market Leader Tesla Stalls

While annual EV sales continue to grow in the U.S. market, the growth rate has slowed notably. Sales in Q1 rose 2.6% year over year, but fell 15.2% compared to Q4 2023. The increase last quarter was well below the previous two years.

In Q1 2023, EV sales volumes were up 46.4% year over year and 15.5% quarter over quarter. In Q1 2022, EV sales were higher by 81.2% year over year and 20.4% higher than the previous quarter.

...Notably, lower prices have supported EV sales volume in the U.S., particularly for key Tesla models. The average transaction price for a new EV in Q1 was $55,167, a 9.0% decrease compared to Q1 2023 and down 3.8% quarter over quarter. Tesla's average transaction price was $52,315 in Q1, down roughly 13.5% year over year. However, lower prices did not generate higher volume.

Many automakers have followed Tesla's lead and slashed prices. Incentive spending on EVs has increased notably in the past year, another sign of slowing demand. Leasing, too, has increased. In Q1, roughly 27% of all EVs were leased, more than double from the year before. With leasing, many buyers can qualify for the full $7,500 incentive the Inflation Reduction Act offers.

One bright spot in Q1: Strong EV sales from luxury makers, suggesting the EV market continues to be luxury-driven. Cadillac achieved a 499.2% year-over-year increase in electric vehicle sales due to robust sales of its Lyriq model. At Mercedes, EV sales were up 66.9%. BMW posted a 62.6% increase in EV sales compared to Q1 2023. At Audi, Q1 EV sales grew 28.8% year over year.

---

Quote:

---

Blistering op-eds are in newspapers everywhere, ripping states for forcing illogical, impractical, and hugely expensive EV mandates on residents.

Quote:

---

OPINION: The EV elite are putting thousands of Americans out of work with repeat layoffs
There are times when we all must wonder if Santa Fe is in a different time zone. For example: when it is 2:30 p.m. in Las Cruces, politicians in Santa Fe are still pretending it's 2021. In the most glaring example, it's clear the electric vehicle bubble has burst, except the news hasn't reached Santa Fe.

That would be the only way to rationally explain the state Environmental Improvement Board's recent decision to continue to force Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham's electric vehicle mandate. Putting aside the fact the governor's mandate disrupts the free market just so she can push her agenda, it also is completely devoid of the reality current taking place.

Last year, less than 8% of all vehicles sold were electric. Supporters hail this result as a threshold moment meant to usher in the future of their glorified golf carts. However, as the first quarter of 2024 came to a close, it looks like electric vehicles may be following the path of laser disks and New Coke.

---

Rumors swirled early this morning that Tesla, the king of the EVs, was preparing to announce layoffs of as many as 20% of its global workforcean unthinkable event even a year ago. Clearly, some adjustments were going to have be made. Not only were there production issues (European labor unions, etc) and supply problems beyond Tesla's control, but the simple fact remains that demand had dropped off.

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I'm not celebrating people getting laid off, but I am glad the pushback keeps gaining steam.

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Tesla, like most tech companies, have regular layoffs like they did in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2022 which were periods of high growth.

nortex97 said:

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BEV's taking such a hit, Tesla is laying people off;

Quote:

---

EV Sales Growth Slows; Market Leader Tesla Stalls

While annual EV sales continue to grow in the U.S. market, the growth rate has slowed notably. Sales in Q1 rose 2.6% year over year, but fell 15.2% compared to Q4 2023. The increase last quarter was well below the previous two years.

In Q1 2023, EV sales volumes were up 46.4% year over year and 15.5% quarter over quarter. In Q1 2022, EV sales were higher by 81.2% year over year and 20.4% higher than the previous quarter.

...Notably, lower prices have supported EV sales volume in the U.S., particularly for key Tesla models. The average transaction price for a new EV in Q1 was $55,167, a 9.0% decrease compared to Q1 2023 and down 3.8% quarter over quarter. Tesla's average transaction price was $52,315 in Q1, down roughly 13.5% year over year. However, lower prices did not generate higher volume.

Many automakers have followed Tesla's lead and slashed prices. Incentive spending on EVs has increased notably in the past year, another sign of slowing demand. Leasing, too, has increased. In Q1, roughly 27% of all EVs were leased, more than double from the year before. With leasing, many buyers can qualify for the full $7,500 incentive the Inflation Reduction Act offers.

One bright spot in Q1: Strong EV sales from luxury makers, suggesting the EV market continues to be luxury-driven. Cadillac achieved a 499.2% year-over-year increase in electric vehicle sales due to robust sales of its Lyriq model. At Mercedes, EV sales were up 66.9%. BMW posted a 62.6% increase in EV sales compared to Q1 2023. At Audi, Q1 EV sales grew 28.8% year over year.

---

Quote:

---

Blistering op-eds are in newspapers everywhere, ripping states for forcing illogical, impractical, and hugely expensive EV mandates on residents.

Quote:

---

OPINION: The EV elite are putting thousands of Americans out of work with repeat layoffs
There are times when we all must wonder if Santa Fe is in a different time zone. For example: when it is 2:30 p.m. in Las Cruces, politicians in Santa Fe are still pretending it's 2021. In the most glaring example, it's clear the electric vehicle bubble has burst, except the news hasn't reached Santa Fe.

That would be the only way to rationally explain the state Environmental Improvement Board's recent decision to continue to force Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham's electric vehicle mandate. Putting aside the fact the governor's mandate disrupts the free market just so she can push her agenda, it also is completely devoid of the reality current taking place.

Last year, less than 8% of all vehicles sold were electric. Supporters hail this result as a threshold moment meant to usher in the future of their glorified golf carts. However, as the first quarter of 2024 came to a close, it looks like electric vehicles may be following the path of laser disks and New Coke.

---

Rumors swirled early this morning that Tesla, the king of the EVs, was preparing to announce layoffs of as many as 20% of its global workforcean unthinkable event even a year ago. Clearly, some adjustments were going to have be made. Not only were there production issues (European labor unions, etc) and supply problems beyond Tesla's control, but the simple fact remains that demand had dropped off.

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I'm not celebrating people getting laid off, but I am glad the pushback keeps gaining steam.

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Why not? They're woke lib tech bros

It is already below the 52wk low of $152.xx, lower support is around $113.

If it drops below $100 i might even be tempted.

Nah, I think laying off 20 percent of their workforce impacts a lot of folks in manufacturing that really are just working for a living, not woke types.

10%

Same as their 2022 layoff

The recent layoff is 10%, but the 2022 layoff was not. It was a 3% cut compared to the total workforce, but it was restricted to salaries/non-factory workers, which is where the 10% figure comes from.

Was on a business trip in California recently and the only car they had was an EV. I took it thinking it would be a good experience to validate why I hate them.

Everything I hate about EVs was confirmed and then some.

1). Charging time. Even with a level 3 charger, to get to 100% would take 1.5 to 2 hours of charging.
2). Good luck finding a level 3 charger that's not being used. So you're looking at a level 2 charger. This takes 4-10 hours of charging time.
3). Want to charge your car? You have to download an app and sign up with the company. In my case, they want you to pay a monthly subscription to use their high end charger. No thanks.

Overall, it was a horrible experience renting one. Anyone pushing these on to the public needs to be immediately removed from office.

Philip J Fry said:

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Was on a business trip in California recently and the only car they had was an EV. I took it thinking it would be a good experience to validate why I hate them.

Everything I hate about EVs was confirmed and then some.

1). Charging time. Even with a level 3 charger, to get to 100% would take 1.5 to 2 hours of charging.
2). Good luck finding a level 3 charger that's not being used. So you're looking at a level 2 charger. This takes 4-10 hours of charging time.
3). Want to charge your car? You have to download an app and sign up with the company. In my case, they want you to pay a monthly subscription to use their high end charger. No thanks.

Overall, it was a horrible experience renting one. Anyone pushing these on to the public needs to be immediately removed from office.

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You've just experienced why EVs aren't suited right now for a rental car and nothing more than that. A reliable place to charge overnight is still needed. Thankfully, that works quite well for single family home owners

Bubblez said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Was on a business trip in California recently and the only car they had was an EV. I took it thinking it would be a good experience to validate why I hate them.

Everything I hate about EVs was confirmed and then some.

1). Charging time. Even with a level 3 charger, to get to 100% would take 1.5 to 2 hours of charging.
2). Good luck finding a level 3 charger that's not being used. So you're looking at a level 2 charger. This takes 4-10 hours of charging time.
3). Want to charge your car? You have to download an app and sign up with the company. In my case, they want you to pay a monthly subscription to use their high end charger. No thanks.

Overall, it was a horrible experience renting one. Anyone pushing these on to the public needs to be immediately removed from office.

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You've just experienced why EVs aren't suited right now for a rental car and nothing more than that. A reliable place to charge overnight is still needed. Thankfully, that works quite well for single family home owners

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So they're not useful for the vast majority of people. Yeah, we knew that.

Wrong. I experienced what it would be like if you can't afford another 10-20 grand to install a fast charger at home.

Philip J Fry said:

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Wrong. I experienced what it would be like if you can't afford another 10-20 grand to install a fast charger at home.

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Lol, you don't need a fast charger at home. Most people spend more than 20 minutes at home.

techno-ag said:

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Bubblez said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Was on a business trip in California recently and the only car they had was an EV. I took it thinking it would be a good experience to validate why I hate them.

Everything I hate about EVs was confirmed and then some.

1). Charging time. Even with a level 3 charger, to get to 100% would take 1.5 to 2 hours of charging.
2). Good luck finding a level 3 charger that's not being used. So you're looking at a level 2 charger. This takes 4-10 hours of charging time.
3). Want to charge your car? You have to download an app and sign up with the company. In my case, they want you to pay a monthly subscription to use their high end charger. No thanks.

Overall, it was a horrible experience renting one. Anyone pushing these on to the public needs to be immediately removed from office.

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You've just experienced why EVs aren't suited right now for a rental car and nothing more than that. A reliable place to charge overnight is still needed. Thankfully, that works quite well for single family home owners

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So they're not useful for the vast majority of people. Yeah, we knew that.

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You got that backwards. Most of the US population lives in a single family home.

Again wrong. At the very least, you need a level 2. If you don't have that, you are totally hosed in California or anywhere else where you'd have a typical 45 minute commute to work.. Level 1 won't get you what you need even if you have it plugged in over night.

What vehicle did you rent?

Had a genesis g80.

On a side note, I saw a Lucid on N Padre Island last week. I was behind me and I didn't recognize the front end...

Not a bad looking vehicle. Although the front kind gave off Cylon vibes...

Just got a used 2022 Model X. Super excited. Hasn't caught on fire or run out of charge yet.

Fast chargers are DC fast chargers. Level 3 chargers. You don't need one of those at home. Level 2 are AC and will satisfy anyone's needs and they are nowhere near $10-20k to install, unless you need a panel upgrade. More like $300-500 for the charger, couple of hundred for the install.

That vehicle caps out at 350 kW charging and can charge from 10-80% in ~22 minutes. No one chargers at a fast charger longer than that unless they absolutely have to, because the 80-100% charge time doubles the time spent charging.

The problem is that Level 3 charging doesn't mean much other than it's faster than Level 2. You have to look at the power output of the charger and it can range in power output from as low as 50 kW up to 350 kW (or higher, but that's the max in the U.S. currently). A 50 kW charger is going to be brutally slow and you probably ended up at a 50-75Kw charger to come away with the impression it would take 3 hours.

A 120v outlet outputs around 1 kW of power and provides ~3-4 miles of range per hour. It's not going to be something that's going to be able to be relied upon long term if you routinely drive long distances, but some people can make it work as a commuter solution, depending on the commute. Lose 5-10 miles of range per day, make it up on the weekend.


EV rentals are fine for understanding the driving experience, but they're bad for understanding the ownership experience.

Philip J Fry said:

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Again wrong. At the very least, you need a level 2. If you don't have that, you are totally hosed in California or anywhere else where you'd have a typical 45 minute commute to work.. Level 1 won't get you what you need even if you have it plugged in over night.

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Stop lying. You said an L3 charger at 10-20 grand was needed. That obviously is not the case. Now you are moving the goalposts.

Philip J Fry said:

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Again wrong. At the very least, you need a level 2. If you don't have that, you are totally hosed in California or anywhere else where you'd have a typical 45 minute commute to work.. Level 1 won't get you what you need even if you have it plugged in over night.

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$10k to $20k for a level 2 charger?

If you are trying to actually be green then yes, you would want your car powered by solar right? Otherwise, it's still fueled by dinosaurs.

tk for tu juan said:

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Here is entertainment for some of y'all. Fast forward to 6 min

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Would have been worse in an ICE:

Quote:

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But then, in 1973, the centuries-old survivor met its match. A guy ran the tree over with his truck. The Libyan driver was "following a roadway that traced the old caravan route, collided with the tree, snapping its trunk," TreeHugger reports. The driver's name never surfaced, but rumors abound that he was drunk at the moment that he plowed into the only obstacle for (250) milesthe tree.

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Philip J Fry said:

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If you are trying to actually be green then yes, you would want your car powered by solar right? Otherwise, it's still fueled by dinosaurs.

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That is becoming less and less everyday, certainly for coal.

All I know is, I sat at the level 2 charger for 30 minutes and got a whopping 3.28 KWhr.

Then proceeded to have to sit at a level 3 charger for 30 minutes for 23 KWhr. If I wanted to charge it fully, I'd have to stay there for 1.5 hours.


For ICE owners, that's was about 80 miles of range for 30 minutes of charging.

Philip J Fry said:

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All I know is, I sat at the level 2 charger for 30 minutes and got a whopping 3.28 KWhr.

Then proceeded to have to sit at a level 3 charger for 30 minutes for 23 KWhr. If I wanted to charge it fully, I'd have to stay there for 1.5 hours.

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For fast charging, you charge up to 80% and get back on the road. Save the 100% charging at home.

The use case for EV rentals is mainly for EV owners who's car is in the shop.

Sure. 80% for me was about an hour of charging at level 3. Not a ton better than a full charge.

Especially considering you have to sit and wait for the person in front of you to finish first.

I also love that you have to plan any weekend plans around your ability to charge. Even if it is 30 minutes at a time. What an absolutely miserable experience.

Bubblez said:

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techno-ag said:

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Bubblez said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Was on a business trip in California recently and the only car they had was an EV. I took it thinking it would be a good experience to validate why I hate them.

Everything I hate about EVs was confirmed and then some.

1). Charging time. Even with a level 3 charger, to get to 100% would take 1.5 to 2 hours of charging.
2). Good luck finding a level 3 charger that's not being used. So you're looking at a level 2 charger. This takes 4-10 hours of charging time.
3). Want to charge your car? You have to download an app and sign up with the company. In my case, they want you to pay a monthly subscription to use their high end charger. No thanks.

Overall, it was a horrible experience renting one. Anyone pushing these on to the public needs to be immediately removed from office.

---

You've just experienced why EVs aren't suited right now for a rental car and nothing more than that. A reliable place to charge overnight is still needed. Thankfully, that works quite well for single family home owners

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So they're not useful for the vast majority of people. Yeah, we knew that.

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You got that backwards. Most of the US population lives in a single family home.

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Again there's nuance in the details. Renters are not necessarily going to be able to install chargers, if they even have access to garages.

Quote:

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(In 2022) Approximately 100 million people lived in a rental home, with about 44 million occupying an apartment in a multifamily building

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https://www.statista.com/statistics/612959/number-of-households-and-residents-renting-usa-by-structure-type/

The statement stands.

France: Footage shows an electric police van being charged by a diesel generator.

If you're going to use diesel to power them, why not just use diesel powered police vans? 🤡 pic.twitter.com/ZEctsmr7wg

— Wide Awake Media (@wideawake_media) April 21, 2024

LOLOL.

That's ok because every ICE needs electricity to operate so why not just use an EV per your logic.

techno-ag said:

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Bubblez said:

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techno-ag said:

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Bubblez said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Was on a business trip in California recently and the only car they had was an EV. I took it thinking it would be a good experience to validate why I hate them.

Everything I hate about EVs was confirmed and then some.

1). Charging time. Even with a level 3 charger, to get to 100% would take 1.5 to 2 hours of charging.
2). Good luck finding a level 3 charger that's not being used. So you're looking at a level 2 charger. This takes 4-10 hours of charging time.
3). Want to charge your car? You have to download an app and sign up with the company. In my case, they want you to pay a monthly subscription to use their high end charger. No thanks.

Overall, it was a horrible experience renting one. Anyone pushing these on to the public needs to be immediately removed from office.

---

You've just experienced why EVs aren't suited right now for a rental car and nothing more than that. A reliable place to charge overnight is still needed. Thankfully, that works quite well for single family home owners

---

So they're not useful for the vast majority of people. Yeah, we knew that.

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You got that backwards. Most of the US population lives in a single family home.

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Again there's nuance in the details. Renters are not necessarily going to be able to install chargers, if they even have access to garages.

Quote:

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(In 2022) Approximately 100 million people lived in a rental home, with about 44 million occupying an apartment in a multifamily building

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https://www.statista.com/statistics/612959/number-of-households-and-residents-renting-usa-by-structure-type/

The statement stands.

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You said the vast majority of people can't charge their vehicles overnight. Your statement, as being a flat out lie, still stands.

To assume none of those in a rental home would not be able to get a charger installed is laughable

More people live in a single family home they own, than any sort of rental. To say the vast majority of people would not have the capability to charge overnight is completely factually incorrect no matter how many times you continue to make this factually incorrect statement.

What a dumb take. Electricity is not the primary source of energy for ICE.

Been following this thread for awhile. Dumbest take I've seen in months.

This whole argument that you can charge at home is a red herring.

If you want to spend 2.5K on a level 2 charger and charge with fossil fuels, you can. The logic behind this doesn't make sense to me though because you're still burning natural gas and coal to generate the energy. So you're not buying the car to be "green" here unless you invest even more money in solar panels.

If you are installing the level 2 just for the convenience of charging at home, then you might as well have bought an ICE. If you want to do any traveling whatsoever, then you probably will need to own an ICE for those occasions.

So basically, the only use case for EVs are home owners who don't commute long distances for work and don't care to do any weekend travel.