What are these 45 EV models?

hph6203 said:

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bobbranco said:

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hph6203 said:

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The majority of models don't receive any tax incentives.

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Interesting.

Consumer reports states otherwise. Unless you have other information.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/electric-cars-plug-in-hybrids-that-qualify-for-tax-credits-a7820795671/

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There are >45 pure EV models for sale in the U.S. Only 13 of the vehicles on that list are pure EVs that are actually for sale currently.

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What are those 45 models and which 13 receive the credits?

The list of eligible vehicles is in bobbranco's link. The Blazer EV (not yet in production, later this year), Honda Prologue (not yet delivering, starting soon/may have just started), and Tesla Model 3 Performance (no longer in production due to the Model 3 refresh/redesign) at the beginning of the year. The Prologue and Blazer are not on the list below, it may not be comprehensive:

I take it back on the 13, some of those that I counted from the link are actually PHEVs. It's actually 10. Bolded is full credit, those marked with 3,750 get only half the credit. Y'all are whining about something that is not actually impacting the market substantially in any way. The only vehicle that is receiving credits that is selling significant volumes is the Model Y. Credits are not the issue you think they are and their intention is not what you think it is.

Audi e-tron
Audi e-tron GT
Audi e-tron Sportback
Audi Q4 e-tron
Audi Q4 e-tron Sportback
Audi Q8 e-tron
BMW i4 eDrive40
BMW i5
BMW iX xDrive50
Cadillac LYRIQ
Chevrolet Bolt EUV
Chevrolet Bolt EV
Ford F-150 Lightning
Ford Mustang Mach-E
Genesis Electrified G80
Genesis Electrified GV70
Genesis GV60
GMC Hummer EV
Hyundai IONIQ 5
Hyundai Kona Electric
Jaguar I-PACE
Kia EV6
Kia EV9
Kia Niro EV
Lucid Motors Air
Mercedes-Benz EQB
Mercedes-Benz EQB SUV
Mercedes-Benz EQE Sedan
Mercedes-Benz EQE SUV
Mercedes-Benz EQS Sedan
Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV
Mini Cooper Electric SE Hardtop 2 door
Nissan Ariya
Nissan LEAF - 3,750
Polestar 2
Porsche Taycan
Rivian R1S - 3,750
Rivian R1T -3,750
Tesla Model 3
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X
Tesla Model Y
Toyota bZ4X
Volkswagen ID.4
Volvo C40
Volvo XC40

No high end EV's. Why's that? Also why is it not given solely to the Big 3 US automakers? And yes not your opinion but according to another I thought Biden only wanted it to benefit the Big 3.

Why am I partially paying for somebody's new car?

hph6203 said:

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bobbranco said:

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hph6203 said:

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The majority of models don't receive any tax incentives.

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Interesting.

Consumer reports states otherwise. Unless you have other information.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/electric-cars-plug-in-hybrids-that-qualify-for-tax-credits-a7820795671/

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There are >45 pure EV models for sale in the U.S. Only 13 of the vehicles on that list are pure EVs that are actually for sale currently.

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Nice use of semantics here.

Quote:

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The majority of models don't receive any tax incentives.

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Quote:

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There are >45 pure EV models for sale in the U.S. Only 13 of the vehicles on that list are pure EVs that are actually for sale currently.

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You said the majority of models without making a distinction of "pure" EV models. Then, you use "for sale in the US" vs "are pure EVs" AND "actually for sale currently" to make your calculation.

Interesting way to disguise the actual numbers.

I excluded the hybrids from those numbers. Even if you include the hybrids that receive the credit relative to the number of EV models it's still a majority that don't.

There's no obfuscation, people don't ***** about hybrids receiving credits on this forum because they like hybrids and they're not even aware they receive them.

Here are the hybrids 7 receive credits 25 don't:

Audi Q5 TFSI e PHEV
BMW 330e
BMW 530e
BMW X5 xDrive 45e
Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid
Ford Escape PHEV
Hyundai Santa Fe PHEV
Hyundai Tuscon Plug-In Hybrid
Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe
Jeep Wrangler 4xe
Kia Niro PHEV
Kia Sorento Plug-in Hybrid SX
Kia Sportage PHEV
Land Rover Range Rover PHEV
Land Rover Range Rover Sport PHEV
Lexus NX 450h+
Lexus TX 550h+
Lincoln Aviator Grand Touring
Lincoln Corsair Grand Touring
Mazda CX-90 PHEV
Mini Countryman SE PHEV
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid
Porsche Panamera E-Hybrid
Subaru Crosstrek PHEV
Toyota Prius Prime
Toyota RAV4 Prime
Volvo S60 T8 Recharge PHEV
Volvo S90 T8 PHEV
Volvo V60 Recharge
Volvo XC60 T8 PHEV
Volvo XC90 T8 PHEV

hph6203 said:

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I excluded the hybrids from those numbers. Even if you include the hybrids that receive the credit relative to the number of EV models it's still a majority that don't.

There's no obfuscation, people don't ***** about hybrids receiving credits on this forum because they like hybrids and they're not even aware they receive them.

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Could you list the number of models available and the models and then the number of each with credits? Without the semantics from your earlier post.

See above edited post. Don't assume people are lying to you, just providing information. For transparency's sake I removed Ferarris, Bentley's and Mclaren's from the list, because neither the buyer nor the vehicle have any chance of being eligible for any tax incentives and it would be stacking the deck.

As posted earlier in this thread the average EV loses ~$6,000 per sale, Tesla made around that per sale in Q4 last year after all their price cuts. As a comparison to Chinese EVs their Model 3 is currently being produced and sold in China for ~$36,000, BYD's competitor (Seal) is selling for $27,500 or $9,000 cheaper. Battery prices are expected to fall significantly this year due to other auto manufacturers pulling back on production/oversupply resulting in ~$3,000 in savings for LFP battery packs. LFP battery packs are not even the cheapest chemistry that is being placed into vehicles in China, which is why they have cars that have >150 miles of range that cost <$10,000. EVs are going to be cheaper to produce long-term than ICE vehicles due to the reduction in components/simplicity of their construction allowing for much faster/larger production per sq ft of factory space. They are not a mature technology by any stretch of the imagination. The reason China is so far ahead currently is that their government covered significant portions of the upfront capital expenses to build their factories and they don't have to deal with that expense to reach profitability. They are 10 years ahead on the cost reduction curve than legacy auto and probably ~4 years ahead of Tesla.

This says $11,500, they reduced the price of it by $9,500. They probably don't make money on it. Tesla will be introducing a vehicle next year that's likely larger than this. Around the size of a Corolla that is expected to be close to $25,000. When you say "So it's going to just be Tesla and China as car makers in the future?" Realize that's not as unlikely of a scenario as you think it is.

hph6203 said:

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people don't ***** about hybrids receiving credits on this forum because they like hybrids and they're not even aware they receive them

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Not true. No EV of any stripe should have credits. But thanks for playing.

OOOH. Nice POS golf cart.

The purpose of posting that car is to illustrate how cheaply a EV can be manufactured and its capacity to hit market segments that most domestic ICE manufacturers wouldn't dare touch currently. This is the BYD Seal. $27,500.

hph6203 said:

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The purpose of posting that car is to illustrate how cheaply a EV can be manufactured and its capacity to hit market segments that most domestic ICE manufacturers wouldn't dare touch currently. This is the BYD Seal. $27,500.

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BYD is Chi-com. Not sold here.

LOL. Fail. Video claims it costs more than a Model 3 and does not come close to competing with the Model 3.

Lowest price is 39,900 pounds for the stripped down Seal.

Why I posted the Chinese prices because they are both produced domestically and they are not subject to any tariffs or protectionism. That vehicle in China is $27,500. The Model 3 also produced in China is $34,600 (Tesla recently updated pricing and I was going off memory).

The battery pack on that vehicle is more than 10 kWh larger than the Model 3 RWD they're price comparing to and has 11% more range.

But laugh all you want. BYD is scouting factory locations in Mexico and while they may not be headed this way in the next couple of years, they're not staying out forever.

Why is this thread still going

Tesla hate circlejerk

Would you rather a thread be created every time a software update gets pushed to Tesla's vehicles and a Cybertruck drives through a puddle?

bobbranco said:

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No high end EV's. Why's that? Also why is it not given solely to the Big 3 US automakers? And yes not your opinion but according to another I thought Biden only wanted it to benefit the Big 3.

Why am I partially paying for somebody's new car?

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Because you are part of the problem, and not the "solution" comrade!!

LOL

bobbranco said:

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No high end EV's. Why's that? Also why is it not given solely to the Big 3 US automakers? And yes not your opinion but according to another I thought Biden only wanted it to benefit the Big 3.

Why am I partially paying for somebody's new car?

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Just like you and I pay for others stuff all the time.

I own a bunch of properties, pay 6 figure property taxes a year. My kids go to private school. So why am I paying to educate other people's kids? I pay for more services and more welfare than most.

Andrew Dufresne said:

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Why is this thread still going

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Because we are only at the 100th irrelevant issues haters point out just because they can't just focus on the real one, "get the gov out of our lives"

But between falsehoods like EVs costs more to maintain to every X post pointing out minor issues.

People just love to be unhappy or must be threatened that the oil/ICE industry is threatened.

Medaggie said:

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Andrew Dufresne said:

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Why is this thread still going

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Because we are only at the 100th irrelevant issues haters point out just because they can't just focus on the real one, "get the gov out of our lives"

But between falsehoods like EVs costs more to maintain to every X post pointing out minor issues.

People just love to be unhappy or must be threatened that the oil/ICE industry is threatened.

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Dream on.

Many here own an EV but not a pure BEV. For instance I own a MHEV. An MHEV never is plugged in for charging. It works great except for the auto start / stop feature and the other big brother features embedded in the system.

We are not energized like you about your conspicuous consumer good. I find it odd that we have people like you proselytizing like Joel Olsteen about your tool.

Win that argument with wealth smack.



LOL.

hph6203 said:

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Why I posted the Chinese prices because they are both produced domestically and they are not subject to any tariffs or protectionism. That vehicle in China is $27,500. The Model 3 also produced in China is $34,600 (Tesla recently updated pricing and I was going off memory).

The battery pack on that vehicle is more than 10 kWh larger than the Model 3 RWD they're price comparing to and has 11% more range.

But laugh all you want. BYD is scouting factory locations in Mexico and while they may not be headed this way in the next couple of years, they're not staying out forever.

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Price drop today. $25,000 now.

bobbranco said:

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Medaggie said:

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Andrew Dufresne said:

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Why is this thread still going

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Because we are only at the 100th irrelevant issues haters point out just because they can't just focus on the real one, "get the gov out of our lives"

But between falsehoods like EVs costs more to maintain to every X post pointing out minor issues.

People just love to be unhappy or must be threatened that the oil/ICE industry is threatened.

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Dream on.

Many here own an EV but not a pure BEV. For instance I own a MHEV. An MHEV never is plugged in for charging. It works great except for the auto start / stop feature and the other big brother features embedded in the system.

We are not energized like you about your conspicuous consumer good. I find it odd that we have people like you proselytizing like Joel Olsteen about your tool.

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They are saving hundreds of hour a year by not having to pump gas. So yeah the Joel Olsteen comment was obvious around page 4.

lol. in china. lmao

Here is an article talking about Tesla in particular but almost all automakers in general taking the minimalist designs too far. I tend to agree with the article.

The European regulators are going to require more bottoms and stalks in 2026. While I generally agree with more physical controls, I hate regulators designating it instead of the market.

The overuse of touchscreens is an industry-wide problem, with almost every vehicle-maker moving key controls onto central touchscreens, obliging drivers to take their eyes off the road and raising the risk of distraction crashes,"
https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/aston-martin-designer-says-tesla-pisses-off-its-customers-with-this-flaw-

Yup. Good discussion up thread about how confusing some of these new fangled gearshifts can be. Might be a contributing factor in some accidents too.

techno-ag said:

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Yup. Good discussion up thread about how confusing some of these new fangled gearshifts can be. Might be a contributing factor in some accidents too.

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The accident you were blaming it on was shown to be good old fashioned drunk driving. Gear shift accidents are rare. The bigger issue is the distracted driving as you are looking through various screens.

Kansas Kid said:

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The European regulators are going to require more bottoms and stalks in 2026. While I generally agree with more physical controls, I hate regulators designating it instead of the market.

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The problem with the market is it can be extraordinarily slow to react, especially in cases like automobiles, where the volumes sold are so low compared to smartphones or cans of beer. The feedback cycle just takes too long.

Safety related items can not wait. The compromise is give the manufacturers a few years to adapt

Medaggie said:

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Andrew Dufresne said:

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Why is this thread still going

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Because we are only at the 100th irrelevant issues haters point out just because they can't just focus on the real one, "get the gov out of our lives"

But between falsehoods like EVs costs more to maintain to every X post pointing out minor issues.

People just love to be unhappy or must be threatened that the oil/ICE industry is threatened.

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Nah, it's really not...

Bubblez said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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The European regulators are going to require more bottoms and stalks in 2026. While I generally agree with more physical controls, I hate regulators designating it instead of the market.

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The problem with the market is it can be extraordinarily slow to react, especially in cases like automobiles, where the volumes sold are so low compared to smartphones or cans of beer. The feedback cycle just takes too long.

Safety related items can not wait. The compromise is give the manufacturers a few years to adapt

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The problem with the regulators is that they can be even slower to adapt and the process is highly politicized, especially today. I am not totally against regulators mandating things but it needs to be a very, very narrow window. With your view of mandating safety items, what stops the Biden administration from saying they are mandating EVs to save people from climate change and all the deaths they think come from it?

The manufacturers are faster to adapt than regulators and they're more knowledgeable than some idiot that decided they wanted to be a professional hall monitor.

Regulators stifle innovation.

From manufacturing batteries for Nokia and other cell phone manufacturers, to taking on Tesla and other car manufacturers

hph6203 said:

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The manufacturers are faster to adapt than regulators and they're more knowledgeable than some idiot that decided they wanted to be a professional hall monitor.

Regulators stifle innovation.

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Yeah, the manufactures thought it would be so cool to move all controls to touchscreens. They got that entirely wrong, and in fact its not safe..

Maybe Tesla's should include an ejection seat in case of submersion or fire.