All the cybertruck failures … so far!

https://jalopnik.com/all-the-tesla-cybertruck-screw-ups-since-delivery-so-f-1851331727

Teslag said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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I had heard that as a rumor, horrifying if true.
And the law suit that Tesla faces...wow.

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There's nothing wrong with the design. Tesla isn't the only, or the first, car with an electronic touch screen shift mechanism

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Gear shifts should remain traditional above all else. Lots of complaints on Reddit & elsewhere about the Nissan shifter when it changed in 21 or so.

But they don't have issues on the Tesla.

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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I had heard that as a rumor, horrifying if true.
And the law suit that Tesla faces...wow.

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There's nothing wrong with the design. Tesla isn't the only, or the first, car with an electronic touch screen shift mechanism

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Gear shifts should remain traditional above all else. Lots of complaints on Reddit & elsewhere about the Nissan shifter when it changed in 21 or so.

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So three on the tree, automatic,, manual and if so how is it located, a rotary dial on the center ???? Are paddle shifters allowed in your mandate? In other words, there is no such thing as a traditional shifter.

Why not let the market decide? Oh that's right, you guys want the government to regulate the market rather than customers to decide what they want.

Govern me harder Daddy.

Kansas Kid said:

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techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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I had heard that as a rumor, horrifying if true.
And the law suit that Tesla faces...wow.

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There's nothing wrong with the design. Tesla isn't the only, or the first, car with an electronic touch screen shift mechanism

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Gear shifts should remain traditional above all else. Lots of complaints on Reddit & elsewhere about the Nissan shifter when it changed in 21 or so.

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So three on the tree, automatic,, manual and if so how is it located, a rotary dial on the center ???? Are paddle shifters allowed in your mandate? In other words, there is no such thing as a traditional shifter.

Why not let the market decide? Oh that's right, you guys want the government to regulate the market rather than customers to decide what they want.

Govern me harder Daddy.

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What an odd take. Can any of you EVangelists approach this discussion rationally? Why do you have to constantly misconstrue people's statements and engage in ad hominem attacks? I suspect it's because you know your counters are weak.

Oh well. Carry on.

techno-ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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I had heard that as a rumor, horrifying if true.
And the law suit that Tesla faces...wow.

---

There's nothing wrong with the design. Tesla isn't the only, or the first, car with an electronic touch screen shift mechanism

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Gear shifts should remain traditional above all else. Lots of complaints on Reddit & elsewhere about the Nissan shifter when it changed in 21 or so.

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So three on the tree, automatic,, manual and if so how is it located, a rotary dial on the center ???? Are paddle shifters allowed in your mandate? In other words, there is no such thing as a traditional shifter.

Why not let the market decide? Oh that's right, you guys want the government to regulate the market rather than customers to decide what they want.

Govern me harder Daddy.

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What an odd take. Can any of you EVangelists approach this discussion rationally? Why do you have to constantly misconstrue people's statements and engage in ad hominem attacks? I suspect it's because you know your counters are weak.

Oh well. Carry on.

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No, you want to have a single standard shifter mechanism and there is no such thing. There have been a wide assortment over the years and there are many different styles in the market today. People have been confused by shifting mechanisms, turn signals, wind shield wipers, etc for a very long time. This has nothing to do with EVs and instead has to do with the variety of options the market place in the West provides. You guys like to frequently blame things on EVs that aren't exclusive to EVs but instead, our common issues with cars. This is one of them.

There are issues with EVs that are tied to the powertrain which make them unique to the product just like there are issues with ICEs that are unique to that powertrain. Once you get past the powertrain, the issue really isn't with EVs vs ICEs. They are issues with other innovations being implemented more rapidly by start-up car manufacturers than traditional manufacturers.

Further proof that this isn't an EV only issue.
Mercedes
Can unfamiliarity with a shifter-gear lever cause a tragedy? - Consumer Reports

A recall on Chrysler cars
Gear shift confusion causes Chrysler recall (cnn.com)

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No, you want to have a single standard shifter mechanism and there is no such thing

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Confusing shifters are a thing. I personally don't like them. I have a friend who can't get her Nissan into neutral and therefore no longer frequents certain car washes.

I've about decided EVangelists such as yourself have little experience in the real world of average driving. Oh well. There are worse things in life in which one could be deficient.

There's nothing confusing about the shifter. This woman was just an idiot.

techno-ag said:

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Quote:

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No, you want to have a single standard shifter mechanism and there is no such thing

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Confusing shifters are a thing. I personally don't like them. I have a friend who can't get her Nissan into neutral and therefore no longer frequents certain car washes.

I've about decided EVangelists such as yourself have little experience in the real world of average driving. Oh well. There are worse things in life in which one could be deficient.

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The arrogance and ignorance of this comment is amazing. You like to tell us all about EVs and yet you haven't owned one or even spent substantial time driving them yet those of us who think there are certain use cases for EVs have driven and in most cases still drive ICE cars. Don't forget, most of us also say there are places where only ICE vehicles will work unless the technology radically changes because we understand the weaknesses of EVs. I have also driven a ton of rentals over the years and the first thing I do is figure out the basic controls before I leave the lot.

I would love to hear how you think we haven't been in the world of average driving yet you are an "expert" on EVs given your lack of experience with them.

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We don't know exactly what happened in that crash, but one thing we do understand is that newer models from Mercedes and several other automakers have an electronic shift lever that can be confusing to use. With a conventional column shifter, for instance, Reverse is traditionally one notch down from Park. But in newer Mercedes vehicles, flicking the electronic column shifter downward engages Drive instead. Reverse is found by flicking the lever upwards.

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We have a vehicle like this. Ironically, for us, it was the single most intuitive and effective shifter design I've experienced in 53+ years of driving. When I get in any other car my instinct is to flick up the right stalk to get into drive.

But in any case one of the last things I want some committee or governmental body deciding is shifters.

cecil77 said:

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Quote:

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We don't know exactly what happened in that crash, but one thing we do understand is that newer models from Mercedes and several other automakers have an electronic shift lever that can be confusing to use. With a conventional column shifter, for instance, Reverse is traditionally one notch down from Park. But in newer Mercedes vehicles, flicking the electronic column shifter downward engages Drive instead. Reverse is found by flicking the lever upwards.

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We have a vehicle like this. Ironically, for us, it was the single most intuitive and effective shifter design I've experienced in 53+ years of driving. When I get in any other car my instinct is to flick up the right stalk to get into drive.

But in any case one of the last things I want some committee or governmental body deciding is shifters.

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Agreed. I have four different vehicles I regularly drive and they all have different shifting mechanisms. I am with you and think this is the most intuitive one and easiest to use. My wife hates it. What it really shows is there is no such thing as a standard shifter like techno thinks there should be.

Another day of whack-a-mole for the obsessive EV haters

Gear shift standardization?

Ha!

I'd be happy if the cruise or wipers or lights were more or less similar controls across brands

CanyonAg77 said:

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Gear shift standardization?

Ha!

I'd be happy if the cruise or wipers or lights were more or less similar controls across brands

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Don't hold your breath.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Gear shift standardization?

Ha!

I'd be happy if the cruise or wipers or lights were more or less similar controls across brands

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One thing that took me a humiliatingly long time to figure out is that every car has an arrow indicator on the fuel tank for which side it's on. I'm sure some EV manufacturers have screwed that up too.

nortex97 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Gear shift standardization?

Ha!

I'd be happy if the cruise or wipers or lights were more or less similar controls across brands

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One thing that took me a humiliatingly long time to figure out is that every car has an arrow indicator on the fuel tank for which side it's on. I'm sure some EV manufacturers have screwed that up too.

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You found a legitimate complaint about EVs. I don't know if any of them have an arrow to point which side it is on. They only have an outline of the car that shows where the port is located (side and front or back) and I think it is usually only assessable once parked.

You really don't realize how lacking in knowledge or open mindedness you are about this, probably any, subject. You are a confirmation seeker, which is exemplified by the kinds of posts you make on this thread focusing on stock prices or anecdotal situations that you try to extrapolate to a norm experience.


Did you know that the Model X she was driving has two methods of shifting? One on the touchscreen and one at the headliner between the cabin lights, with both shifters giving a clear indication of what gear you're in? Did you know that the articles written about this that claimed the emergency latch was complicated when it's an even more intuitive exit latch than the electronic one? It's a pull latch that is just in front of the door locks. It's so easy to find that people unfamiliar with the cars routine use the emergency latch rather than the electronic release.

You don't know what rational or objective is. My guess is you've never seen the touchscreen gear shift used and just have blind faith that it's actually confusing.

Here's how it operates, when the car is put into reverse the back up camera takes up the entire screen, when you shift in to drive it very obviously does not. When you shift from reverse to drive the back up camera disappears. You couldn't have a bigger flashing sign that says what drive mode you're in.

Here's the touch screen shifter/head liner shifter:



Here's the door release, this is a model 3 but it's the same on the X and I had to find a short one that fits into your attention span.




There's nothing confusing about any of it. She made an unfortunate mistake and that genuinely sucks, but you're trying to take anecdote and turn it into the norm again.

Anyway, for anyone curious, Tesla is starting the process of shifting to synthetic graphite which for all the people concerned about lithium being controlled by China, it's actually graphite that they have the strongest stranglehold on, because the natural stuff is dominated by mining within China's borders.

Also of note, the 4680 cells in Tesla's Cybertruck don't actually have silicon in them yet, so that should offer a pretty significant bump to the range once it's added. 340 miles real world aligning with EPA tests, probably get 380-400 with a silicon doped battery.

Range really shouldn't be anyone's main concern. 300 miles is getting to be pretty standard and that's plenty. Not saying more isn't nice but it's just an excuse at that point. What is annoying is how long a supercharger takes. It's gotten better but it needs to be closer to 15 min instead of 30.

Wells Fargo downgrades Tesla stock: 'Growth company with no growth'

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/wells-fargo-downgrades-tesla-stock-144556411.html

For a truck I somewhat disagree, at least for certain users. I don't think it's necessary for a crossover/sedan/most SUVs, but towing when you compound the reduction in weight and the potential for colder weather reduction that 300 miles can quickly drop to ~100.

Extending range for other vehicles, for now, is a work around to some areas having less than stellar charger distribution and as that gets resolved I think 350 is going to be about where it settles for long range variants and 300 for standard range.

This is your leader. In other words he's bad at his job. 2024 is going to be a flat year for auto sales, likely see some growth in their energy business and some advancement in the performance of the self driving software. Next year Cybertruck will be fully ramped, a second megapactory will be operating with 10,000 megapacks capacity, and 2H will have the release of their ~$25,000 model.

This year is going to be difficult for people that need stock to perpetually go up, but if you can hold a decade there's a chance you get a sizable beat against the market.

Keep this in mind when you see the media magnifying a downgrade for $TSLA. The ONLY thing the media cares about is the headline of "Tesla gets downgraded." Not on the quality of the analysts doing the downgrade. This dude who downgraded has almost a worse rating than Gordy. https://t.co/mfswadloJN

— squawksquare (@squawksquare) March 13, 2024

CanyonAg77 said:

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Gear shift standardization?

Ha!

I'd be happy if the cruise or wipers or lights were more or less similar controls across brands

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I found this article that gets into a number of shifter options. There are even more than I would have guessed and many are all electronic. I would love to see a definition of "standard" after looking at all of these.
https://www.autoblog.com/article/automatic-shifters/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACf-kK6P_Y1kmI1LqJh5Oair7ESGfm4o_vaIeg97Bu4y3E6HSHsnl5VG6nePrF19HkfHxPo3hWTY_knJ1OPBHnju3gJW8yO0x7Orz6zNlPgWOlY4TxzEGBmnyINnujjxoyp9nZEbNh3HnobgAwteO_kYC95uPlw7X3ktQD6UpG3e

You are so obtuse. So you never have really been in an EV but hate them. You search the internet for so many anecdotal reasons to label something a failure eventhough they have a best selling model.

Now you focus on stock price where they are still by far the most valuable car maker in the world? Just seems really odd the straws you keep grasping.

I bet you are an ICE dealership worker who feels threatened by technology. Don't buy one, its not for you, we all get it. But its quite sad to tell everyone how to spend their money.

LOL, Not sure I have followed Beege Wellborn but this writing made me laugh;

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You hate to see it...okay. I'm lying through my teeth.

I expected to see it, and seeing it on a major news network makes it all the more satisfying.
Not my headline, y'all. It's CNBC's.

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EV euphoria is dead. Automakers are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans

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"Dead." How about that?

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The buzz around electric vehicles is wearing off.

For years, the automotive industry has been in a state of EV euphoria. Automakers trotted out optimistic sales forecasts for electric models and announced ambitious targets for EV growth. Wall Street boosted valuations for legacy automakers and startup entrants alike, based in part on their visions for an EV future.

Now the hype is dwindling, and companies are again cheering consumer choice. Automakers from Ford Motor and General Motors to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.

Even U.S. EV leader Tesla, which is estimated to have accounted for 55% of EV sales in the country in 2023, is bracing for what "may be a notably lower" rate of growth, CEO Elon Musk said in late January.

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That's not to say EV sales aren't going to increase - they are. Sales just aren't going to keep exploding because they've been shoved down our throats. The consumer has spoken.

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Kansas Kid said:

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cecil77 said:

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Quote:

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We don't know exactly what happened in that crash, but one thing we do understand is that newer models from Mercedes and several other automakers have an electronic shift lever that can be confusing to use. With a conventional column shifter, for instance, Reverse is traditionally one notch down from Park. But in newer Mercedes vehicles, flicking the electronic column shifter downward engages Drive instead. Reverse is found by flicking the lever upwards.

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We have a vehicle like this. Ironically, for us, it was the single most intuitive and effective shifter design I've experienced in 53+ years of driving. When I get in any other car my instinct is to flick up the right stalk to get into drive.

But in any case one of the last things I want some committee or governmental body deciding is shifters.

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Agreed. I have four different vehicles I regularly drive and they all have different shifting mechanisms. I am with you and think this is the most intuitive one and easiest to use. My wife hates it. What it really shows is there is no such thing as a standard shifter like techno thinks there should be.

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My Challenger and Wrangler are both 6 spd manuals...of course, reverse is to the far right and up in the Challenger and to the left and up (while lifting a collar) in the Wrangler...

I swapped between them often so I was always forgetting which one to do when I backed out...

And the GF drives an automatic Wrangler with a stick shifter for the gears.

I can relate to the pain in manual transmissions in finding reverse. Then there is the clutch tightness and throw length which can take time to adjust to as well.

I don't want a manual for my everyday car but it is hard to beat in a weekend sports car.

The world would be a better, safer place if we all just drove manuals. Sigh…

nortex97 said:

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The world would be a better, safer place if we all just drove manuals. Sigh…

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Yes it would because the highest risk drivers, those under 30, would almost all be off the road. It also would make it harder to text and drive in city traffic.

Strange we agree. FWIW, I won't buy one but thought this was cool;

nortex97 said:

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Strange we agree. FWIW, I won't buy one but thought this was cool;

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I don't get why you would add a manual to an EV since the purpose of the transmission is to overcome torque curve limitations with an ICE while you have a flat curve with an electric motor but if they want to offer it, there are probably buyers who want that experience.

Contrary to what you might think, I have no issues with ICE vehicles and fully support them. The difference is also fully support EVs and hybrids. They all have a place in a free market world and I don't see any of the power trains going away in my lifetime.

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They all have a place in a free market world and I don't see any of the power trains going away in my lifetime.

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That would be a wonderful place to kill this thread.

While a universal shifting scheme is unrealistic, manufacturers could at least create transmission functions that are less confusing and don't lead to accidents.

Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Strange we agree. FWIW, I won't buy one but thought this was cool;

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I don't get why you would add a manual to an EV since the purpose of the transmission is to overcome torque curve limitations with an ICE while you have a flat curve with an electric motor but if they want to offer it, there are probably buyers who want that experience.

Contrary to what you might think, I have no issues with ICE vehicles and fully support them. The difference is also fully support EVs and hybrids. They all have a place in a free market world and I don't see any of the power trains going away in my lifetime.

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Now THAT is an EV I could buy.

I do love my stick shifts.