hph6203 said:

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https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3281480/replies/67130872

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I still don't see it. Can you give a quote? Where in there did he say "people who drive EVs should be banned from fleeing a disaster?"

What Gasoline is called around the world! pic.twitter.com/nujhdjtOj2

— Epic Maps 🗺️ (@Locati0ns) March 11, 2024

Anyone that has been to a dirt track, drag strip, MSR Cresson/Houston, etc., has seen people pouring gas. Y'all have even poured gas into a lawn mower at some point.

nortex97 said:

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A hurricane could cause problems for evacuation roads/stations, no doubt. That's part of the reason there has been consideration about banning EV's from even being used in those situations.

Yeah, more at the link, and the EV fanboi publication goes on to call him ignorant etc. Hint; he's not.

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nortex97 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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hph6203 said:

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nortex97 said:

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Medaggie said:

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Why are we debating disasters which are extremely rare instances. If I knew a hurricane was coming, I would charge my Tesla fully overnight, and drive off 2 dys before the hurricane hits. If you leave the night before, then you have made your own bed. Everyone who left Houston right before a natural disaster took the risk of being stuck on the road with no gas/charging station.

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Because disasters matter. Many don't have a backup ICE vehicle, believe it or not.

People don't buy guns and ammo and invest in training to use those skills/tools every day. They buy them for when they need them. I hate to break it to you, but a lot of people leave in a hurricane evacuation in the last 48 hours before it hits. EV's will be a growing liability in such situations moving forward, imho, on I-45 and elsewhere.

Sorry for caring about my fellow citizens/Aggies.

Oh, and cold weather evacuations happen too. I suppose Florida isn't usually too bad but they also have freezing temperatures many months (hurricane season runs thru Nov in Florida and they have hit up north of course as well). A lot of folks don't have the resources to plan ahead a week for stays etc.

There's a lot of arrogance/confidence in understanding disasters/people's situations in this thread today, probably more than usual, imho.

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One of the more leftist statements made on this thread. Emotionally manipulative to try to portray yourself as a kind-hearted person, while pushing the suggestion that people who drive EVs should be banned from fleeing a disaster.

Hilarious.

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It is consistent with his great leftist concerns about the environmental damage caused by EV manufacturing and operations. He also wants to protect people from fires from EVs (but not the ones caused by other vehicles).

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*and disposal. Horrible impact on our communities/environment.

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Like I said, a certified card carrying member of Greenpeace.
Govern me harder, Daddy.

This literally sounds like the leftist that want to push all EVs because they think it is good for the environment. You want to push for all ICE (and maybe hybrid) because you think it is good for the environment. Two sides of the same coin.

Kansas Kid said:

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hph6203 said:

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nortex97 said:

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Medaggie said:

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Why are we debating disasters which are extremely rare instances. If I knew a hurricane was coming, I would charge my Tesla fully overnight, and drive off 2 dys before the hurricane hits. If you leave the night before, then you have made your own bed. Everyone who left Houston right before a natural disaster took the risk of being stuck on the road with no gas/charging station.

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Because disasters matter. Many don't have a backup ICE vehicle, believe it or not.

People don't buy guns and ammo and invest in training to use those skills/tools every day. They buy them for when they need them. I hate to break it to you, but a lot of people leave in a hurricane evacuation in the last 48 hours before it hits. EV's will be a growing liability in such situations moving forward, imho, on I-45 and elsewhere.

Sorry for caring about my fellow citizens/Aggies.

Oh, and cold weather evacuations happen too. I suppose Florida isn't usually too bad but they also have freezing temperatures many months (hurricane season runs thru Nov in Florida and they have hit up north of course as well). A lot of folks don't have the resources to plan ahead a week for stays etc.

There's a lot of arrogance/confidence in understanding disasters/people's situations in this thread today, probably more than usual, imho.

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One of the more leftist statements made on this thread. Emotionally manipulative to try to portray yourself as a kind-hearted person, while pushing the suggestion that people who drive EVs should be banned from fleeing a disaster.

Hilarious.

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It is consistent with his great leftist concerns about the environmental damage caused by EV manufacturing and operations. He also wants to protect people from fires from EVs (but not the ones caused by other vehicles).

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Don't forget about tire particles! We care about particles from EV tires but not from heavy ICE vehicles

cecil77 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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cecil77 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Medaggie said:

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Are you seriously fixated on how someone terms doing something where you have nothing else to do but nitpick on word usage? I am very confident my grammar, work experience, managerial experience, and education would trump yours.

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Not fixated it's just really odd on your part. Do you pull up to a pouring station and say "I'm going to pour some gas at this self-service gas pourer?"

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Yeah, just an idle curiosity. Language is interesting.

"pour gas" is something that I don't know that I've ever heard in 69+ years. Would be interesting to know the derivation.

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Oh I'm sure you've heard the term "pour gas" before.

But, it involved using a gas can, not a pump.

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Nah, I'm from the Valley where we "put gas".

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I guess I could see that. I guess I swap between the two with gas cans.

But then...I grew up in England and decided they were WRONG.

nortex97 said:

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A hurricane could cause problems for evacuation roads/stations, no doubt. That's part of the reason there has been consideration about banning EV's from even being used in those situations.

If it is taking a while to fill a car up with gas, guess what, the EV situation is going to be much worse idling in traffic/looking for a fast DC charging station along the way.

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A Florida state senator told the state's Department of Transportation that he thinks EVs could run out of charge and block traffic during hurricane evacuations.

EVs in Florida hurricane evacuations

State senator Jonathan Martin, a Republican who represents Fort Myers, sits on the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources and also the new Select Committee on Resiliency.

The Select Committee on Resiliency met with the Florida Department of Transportation's (FDOT) executive director of transportation technologies, Trey Tillander, in late February. They discussed Florida's plans for the $198 million it's going to get from the Biden administration's Bipartisan Infrastructure Law for EV charging infrastructure over the next five years.

The federal EV charging infrastructure program requires EV stations to be 50 miles apart and open to all EVs. For the first round of grants, stations must be within a mile of the interstate, and rural and underserved communities must be given consideration.

Grant agreements will be in place in Florida by the end of 2023.

The News Service of Florida reported what Martin said about EVs in evacuations during the discussion:

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With a couple of guys behind you, you can't get out of the car and push it to the side of the road. Traffic backs up. And what might look like a two-hour trip might turn into an eight-hour trip once you're on the road.

My concern is there's not an infrastructure currently available in the state of Florida for the amount of EVs that might be used to evacuate, on evacuation routes, during a time of emergency.

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Yeah, more at the link, and the EV fanboi publication goes on to call him ignorant etc. Hint; he's not.

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This is stupid because in stop and go traffic in an evacuation, a Tesla May have longer range than an ICE. I abortted my Rita evacuation after about 30 miles because I had used half a tank of gas

Perhaps we should ban ICE vehicles from evacuating from hurricanes. I'm only worried about people's safety.

hph6203 said:

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nortex97 said:

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A hurricane could cause problems for evacuation roads/stations, no doubt. That's part of the reason there has been consideration about banning EV's from even being used in those situations.

Yeah, more at the link, and the EV fanboi publication goes on to call him ignorant etc. Hint; he's not.

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Ah. Ok got it. He linked to an article about a Florida lawmaker wanting to ban the use of EVs in evacuation. But he didn't actually say that.

Tesla values depreciate faster than Maserati;

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Tesla's "no haggle" direct-buy pricing model was once heralded as the future of how Americans would buy cars. Several years later, the dealership system is still going strong. Now, according to a recent study, Elon's insistence on adjusting MSRPs based on market conditions has had detrimental effects on Tesla's resale value.

Everyone is well aware that the electric vehicle market is facing some challenges. Inventory is building up, and brands struggle to find buyers beyond enthusiastic early adopters. Since the charging infrastructure still has a long way to go to match the convenience of gas stations, many buyers looking to go green are opting for regular hybrids or plug-in models. While traditional automakers have responded by utilizing a lot of discounts and rebates on their electric models, Tesla has slashed the sticker prices to compete. These price drops, combined with lower consumer demand, have had a cascade effect on the used market causing pre-owned electric model values to plummet.

According to a recent study by iSeeCars.com, Tesla's rate of depreciation from an overall brand perspective vastly outpaces all other automakers.

Quote:

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"iSeeCars analyzed over 1.8 million 1- to 5-year-old used cars sold in February 2023 and 2024. By comparing the average prices of cars by segment, brand and model, the analysis shows a general softening of used car prices overall, but a dramatic drop in used electric vehicle prices."

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Weird.

And, more supercharger problems, which made me laugh;

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For a long time, Tesla's Superchargers only supported its vehicles, but the automaker has recently opened the network to outside brands. While some challenges, such as delays and crowded locations, were expected, there have been a few issues relating to the fact that some automakers don't install their vehicles' charging ports in places where they can be reached by a Supercharger cable. To remedy that issue, Tesla is working on an extension cable that would allow non-Tesla EVs to charge without hassle.

Tesla vehicles all have charging ports on the left rear, so shorter Supercharger cables have no trouble reaching them. Other EVs might have a charging port on the other side, or it might be hidden in the grille, which would make the cables too short. Tesla's statement acknowledges that difficulty: "Most Supercharger cables at NACS Supercharger sites should be able to reach your EV charge port, however, in some cases, you might have to park over the line in order to charge comfortably. Avoid parking diagonally to reach the cable, and try to obstruct as few charge posts as possible. Charge port locations vary by EV model, which requires cable sharing between adjacent stalls at many sites."

While the cable will help, it won't fix the sometimes baffling behavior EV owners both new and experienced exhibit when it comes to charging. People already park sideways and in ways that block others' access to chargers. The cable also won't solve charging etiquette, which is an infuriating mix of ignorance of other people's needs and a complete disregard for them. Tesla might win some points with all EV owners if it included a short how-to brochure with the extended charging cables.

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Oh but they will all proceed fully charged and with good etiquette in a hurricane/disaster evacuation.

If prepared most, if not all, won't need to charge during an evacuation

Teslag said:

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If prepared most, if not all, won't need to charge during an evacuation

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But according to our great overseer yesterday, most won't leave with a full charge. While he provides zero proof of why he said a majority won't fully charge their car before leaving, I am sure he is right. It might be because their brains are too cold to plan ahead because of those freezing temperatures found before hurricane mass evacuations.

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But according to our great overseer

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I bet you think of me daily, when charging your battery. I may just have to incorporate a reference to this moniker into a sig line. Thank you for the chuckle. Here is some humor in kind;

Low and middle income people don't pay taxes, they're being subsidized by the EV buyers every year. That's a statement you likely roughly make all the time, but in this scenario you lie like a leftist.

Actually was talking to a Tesla owner yesterday and she did mention the tires wear out quicker on her Tesla than her Mercedes. Probably due to the way Tesla is driven.

hph6203 said:

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Low and middle income people don't pay taxes, they're being subsidized by the EV buyers every year. That's a statement you likely roughly make all the time, but in this scenario you lie like a leftist.

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I am not real sure what lie I have ostensibly told, but I do disfavor subsidizing rich folks buying status symbols/EV's. I'm not in favor of subsidizing vehicle purchases for poor folks either, just that this is an absurdity (the federal and state EV tax credits).

Y'all are mad this am. What is it that has you so on edge, the EV market trends/used market?

There are going to those that don't charge their vehicles before evacuation; it's just human nature. Just like there are those that wont' top their tank before evacuation.

Trying to buy gas during evacuation was insane despite the abundant infrastructure along the interstates. I can't imagine what it would be like for EV's looking to charge during evacuation.

akm91 said:

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Actually was talking to a Tesla owner yesterday and she did mention the tires wear out quicker on her Tesla than her Mercedes. Probably due to the way Tesla is driven.

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My Corvette tires wear out quickly as well despite it being a fairly light car. I am sure it has nothing to do with my right foot.

akm91 said:

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There are going to those that don't charge their vehicles before evacuation; it's just human nature. Just like there are those that wont' top their tank before evacuation.

Trying to buy gas during evacuation was insane despite the abundant infrastructure along the interstates. I can't imagine what it would be like for EV's looking to charge during evacuation.

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It take a lot more effort to fully fill a gasoline tank before an evacuation because there are frequently lines as others are trying to do the same. For an EV, assuming you can charge at home, it just requires adjusting a simple app setting assuming you normally only charge to 80%. Will some not fully charge, probably, but it will be a small minority and not a majority.

I would assume most people evacuate less than 200-250 miles which under evacuation driving conditions (ie rarely over 40-50 mph and a lot of stop and go traffic), most should make it without charging because unlike an ICE that loses range in stop and go traffic, an EV gains it due to slower driving conditions and regenerative breaking (and virtually no battery usage when stopped). I agree if someone needs to charge because they are going further, it will create delays at the charging stations due to the time to charge but they will be out of harms way.

nortex97 said:

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Tesla values depreciate faster than Maserati;

Quote:

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Tesla's "no haggle" direct-buy pricing model was once heralded as the future of how Americans would buy cars. Several years later, the dealership system is still going strong. Now, according to a recent study, Elon's insistence on adjusting MSRPs based on market conditions has had detrimental effects on Tesla's resale value.

Everyone is well aware that the electric vehicle market is facing some challenges. Inventory is building up, and brands struggle to find buyers beyond enthusiastic early adopters. Since the charging infrastructure still has a long way to go to match the convenience of gas stations, many buyers looking to go green are opting for regular hybrids or plug-in models. While traditional automakers have responded by utilizing a lot of discounts and rebates on their electric models, Tesla has slashed the sticker prices to compete. These price drops, combined with lower consumer demand, have had a cascade effect on the used market causing pre-owned electric model values to plummet.

According to a recent study by iSeeCars.com, Tesla's rate of depreciation from an overall brand perspective vastly outpaces all other automakers.

Quote:

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"iSeeCars analyzed over 1.8 million 1- to 5-year-old used cars sold in February 2023 and 2024. By comparing the average prices of cars by segment, brand and model, the analysis shows a general softening of used car prices overall, but a dramatic drop in used electric vehicle prices."

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Weird.

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Devastating.

nortex97 said:

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And, more supercharger problems, which made me laugh;

Quote:

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For a long time, Tesla's Superchargers only supported its vehicles, but the automaker has recently opened the network to outside brands.While some challenges, such as delays and crowded locations, were expected,

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As predicted up thread, and roundly denied by the EVangelists, as expected.

akm91 said:

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There are going to those that don't charge their vehicles before evacuation; it's just human nature. Just like there are those that wont' top their tank before evacuation.

Trying to buy gas during evacuation was insane despite the abundant infrastructure along the interstates. I can't imagine what it would be like for EV's looking to charge during evacuation.

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The percentage of ICE vehicles with 1/4 tank or less sitting in their garage overnight is vastly greater than the percentage of EV vehicles with a 1/4 charge. Yes there will be some, but the difference is vast.

I never say pump gas, just seems like I am going to a strip club but whatever.

Not buying something that likely will never happen in your lifetime is neurotic. A fully charged Tesla in a stop/go evacuation is much better than a full tank of gas where all the stations are full anyways. This is not even debatable. You get better range going slow than fast in an EV.

If you know a storm is coming, leaving the night before it hits when everyone is as dumb, and not charging up your EV then you deserve to be stuck. I don't even know why this is an issue.

I took a trip from Austin to Houston, charged it up to 315miles, got to Houston with 110miles. If I didn't charge it, then its my fault and not the EV. Just like everything in life, you take responsibilities for your actions. If I went to a wedding and forgot to bring my suit then guess what, I will look like an idiot in jeans.

I mean, people board up homes and spend hours securing their homes but yet can't spend 10 seconds to plug in the charger?

Some of you Never EV-ers are just grasping at straws.

This is called darwinism. If you are dumb, you take the consequences.

akm91 said:

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Actually was talking to a Tesla owner yesterday and she did mention the tires wear out quicker on her Tesla than her Mercedes. Probably due to the way Tesla is driven.

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My Model Y and X5 wear about the same, needing a new set around 40K miles.

The model Y has torque so wears tires more but also you don't do hard brakes so probably balances out. I think it has to do with EVs weighing more but similar weight cars prob doesnt matter much.

Medaggie said:

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This is called darwinism. If you are dumb, you take the consequences.

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Ehh... Darwin Awards are given to dumb but Darwinism doesn't mean that...

As we've learned intelligence has a reverse relation to the survival of species.

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/first-partial-driving-automation-safeguard-ratings-show-industry-has-work-to-do

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The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is introducing a new ratings program to encourage automakers to incorporate more robust safeguards into their partial driving automation systems. Out of the first 14 systems tested, only one earns an acceptable rating. Two are rated marginal, and 11 are rated poor.

"We evaluated partial automation systems from BMW, Ford, General Motors, Genesis, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Tesla and Volvo," IIHS President David Harkey said. "Most of them don't include adequate measures to prevent misuse and keep drivers from losing focus on what's happening on the road."

The Teammate system available on the Lexus LS is the only system tested that earns an acceptable rating.

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Evaluation was performed on the pre-recall (OTA update) version of the Tesla software.

The Ratings

Tesla touch screen linked to Angela Chao's death.

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Angela Chao - billionaire sister of former Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao and sister-in-law of Mitch McConnell - died last month when her Tesla Model X sank in a manmade pond on her 900-acre Texas ranch. She was trapped in the car as it flooded, unable to open the unpowered doors, as friends and rescue crews tried to find a way to break in. Now, a report from the Wall Street Journal claims the Tesla's touchscreen-based shifting interface may have contributed to her getting in the water to begin with.

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https://jalopnik.com/a-tesla-touchscreen-mix-up-killed-angela-chao-report-1851327161

I had heard that as a rumor, horrifying if true.
And the law suit that Tesla faces...wow.

Rongagin71 said:

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I had heard that as a rumor, horrifying if true.
And the law suit that Tesla faces...wow.

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The husband has already says he doesn't blame Tesla. Lawsuit unlikely.

That makes me wonder why?
Does he own a hell of lot of Tesla stock?

Rongagin71 said:

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That makes me wonder why?
Does he own a hell of lot of Tesla stock?

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Or maybe he is old school and doesn't always try to sue people just because an accident happened.

I lost a loved one to a long term medical condition and it was sad how many people said I should sue the doctor. He had done a good job of caring for my loved one but they said that he must of screwed up because she was fairly young. We have a lawyer in my hometown that advertises, In a wreck, need a check? Call us. That pretty much sums up a lot of America today. Go after free money whenever you can.

Rongagin71 said:

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I had heard that as a rumor, horrifying if true.
And the law suit that Tesla faces...wow.

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There's nothing wrong with the design. Tesla isn't the only, or the first, car with an electronic touch screen shift mechanism