Great for taking all my homegirls and our golden retrievers to hear the Indigo Girls at Lilith Fair. It can tow a U-Haul too!VitruvianAg said:I didn't know you were gay!torrid said:Anyone care to hear about my Subaru?torrid said:Lots of brands seem to have their fanboys.Kansas Kid said:PlaneCrashGuy said:agracer said:Medaggie said:
I just don't see how EVs will not overtake Ice in about 10 years and then you will completely lose out on convenience when there are only 30% of gas stations left replaced by Superchargers. The writing is on the wall.
Price - EVs are essentially ICE neutral and many times cheaper when you account for the IRA credit. I bought my model Y for 65K 3 years ago without any Credits. Drove it 80K miles and put in zero maintenance costs. Rough Calculation shows I saved 10K on gas for a similar car (BMW X5), 2K one Brake Job, $1800 Oil changes. Scheduled Maintenance services $2K. I am being very generous with these numbers. So I have saved about 18K.
The Dye has been cast.
The Model Y is not remotely comparable to the X5 except they're both SUV's. One is a luxury vehicle, the other is a $30,000 battery in a $35,000 SUV. Also, remote start, vehicle locator, etc., all newer vehicles have that now..
Agreed. I genuinely believe the only people who pretend BMW quality is comparable to Tesla's is posters who got priced out of BMW, and bought a Tesla to cope.
BMW's are clearly a vehicle with a lot of fanboys. They are notoriously fickle and when they breakdown which seems to be often, expensive to fix. There are a lot better vehicles out there for the money IMO but then again, that is why there is a market. After all, there are people out there that buy Smart cars and think they are the greatest because they can fit into any parking spot. Talk about death traps on wheels.
I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.
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Last: 2 mo ago by techno-ag
They only compete on price. The two are not in the same class of vehicle.Teslag said:
The X competes with the X5 and the Tesla is priced higher.
The Y competes with the X3 and are priced comparably.
wait, why am I arguing with a fraudster.....
Quote:
They only compete on price. The two are not in the same class of vehicle.
Agreed. The Teslas are superior to both by just about every metric.
BMW's of today are no where near a fickle as they once were.Kansas Kid said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
I've found the pretender. Engines and performance don't make luxury; fit and finish do. An actual BMW owner would have known that.
They do have great fit and finish while they are sitting at the dealership getting repaired for the tenth time for the same issue.
Yes, the repair bills are high b/c their parts and labor or 30-50% higher than the other imports or domestics, but their reliability has gone up significantly in the past 10 years.
But they got a well deserved reputation for expensive to maintain from the past.
Their luxury is 10x that of Tesla. They're not comparable in that regard.
Quote:
Their luxury is 10x that of Tesla. They're not comparable in that regard.
10x? Why not 11x? Or 20x? Or is it 9.5x?
Quote:
BMW's of today are no where near a fickle as they once were.
My 2020 X5 would like a word...
Medaggie said:
Things some of you guys debate about seems like a bunch of women.
Who cares if it is called a show room, dealership, parking lot, pit stop, repair shop? What is important is Tesla is not beholden to the dealerships and this is a huge advantage.
Because it's better than arguing over whether a Tesla is comparable to BMW, which is a completely subjective discussion and whether a showroom is a dealership is an absolute factual binary and is relevant to the reporting on EVs. Within 3 posts of your response, there is a person (the same person I was arguing about dealer terminology with) claiming that EV sales are falling, when Q3 was a record for sales for the product category. They grew 50% YoY in Q3 as compared to the broader automarket grew at 16%, that's with the largest manufacturer dealing with factory shutdowns at both factories in the U.S.
How do they come away with the idea that EV sales are falling, despite the fact they growing faster than the broader auto market? Because they read an article about how dealer inventory of EVs has increased to 100 days when the industry average is around 50 days, and they don't understand that the 100 days is not representative of all EV manufacturers, just the ones that are struggling with costs, and if you include the market leader the days of inventory falls relatively in line with the rest of the market. They're struggling with costs at the same time the market leader is slashing prices back to below where they were 2 years ago after a rapid rise in prices and they anticipated being able to build and sell their vehicles at the previously inflated prices that occurred due to supply shortages.
.
I have a 20 yr BMW history, Yes I loved them b/c they looked great and quick for their time period. I have had a 3 series and X5.
I have had a Model Y for the past 4 years and I am confident I am about as much of an expert than most.
The Model Y does compete directly with the X5 except for the X5 is 15K more expensive. From interior space, rear seat, head room, cargo space they are a better comparison with the MY better in most of these metrics. The X3 is too small for comparison.
With this said, luxury has changed.
I would say the X5 is the Hot Girlfriend that is a 9 when you look at the outside, sit inside, and drive off. But like the hottie, is alot of maintenance and when issues pops up that 9 looks gets old. Eventually, the looks doesn't matter and substance is more important. You marry this girl and you have lifelong regrets.
The MY is like the girl you meet that is a 6 but in time, the inner beauty, low maintenance makes that average look grow on you eventually you see a 9. You eventually marry this girl and live happy with a low stress life.
So in time, you will begin to notice that the Model Y is the epitome of luxury. yeah, the skin isn't the best but dive deep inside and you see the beauty of lower cost, no filling of gas, no oil changes, no regular scheduled maintenance, no brakes replacements. You see OTA repairs, better service, better technology.
My new Model Y had a window regulator that had an issue. Really minor issue that my App was reading that it was opened when it was physically closed. I sent a repair request on my App, scheduled an appointment, and had a guy come to my home to replace it in 1 hr under warranty. I asked him why the replaced it when I thought it was an App issue vs sensing issue. He said they read my computer and found it needed to be replaced. Fixed and no further issues.
If this was my BMW, i would have had to spend half the day at the dealership.
This is the beauty I want long term but I get that some guys just want a hot girl to prance around. I am way past wanting that hot girl to show off. I like the subtle beauty with all qualities I really care about.
I have had a Model Y for the past 4 years and I am confident I am about as much of an expert than most.
The Model Y does compete directly with the X5 except for the X5 is 15K more expensive. From interior space, rear seat, head room, cargo space they are a better comparison with the MY better in most of these metrics. The X3 is too small for comparison.
With this said, luxury has changed.
I would say the X5 is the Hot Girlfriend that is a 9 when you look at the outside, sit inside, and drive off. But like the hottie, is alot of maintenance and when issues pops up that 9 looks gets old. Eventually, the looks doesn't matter and substance is more important. You marry this girl and you have lifelong regrets.
The MY is like the girl you meet that is a 6 but in time, the inner beauty, low maintenance makes that average look grow on you eventually you see a 9. You eventually marry this girl and live happy with a low stress life.
So in time, you will begin to notice that the Model Y is the epitome of luxury. yeah, the skin isn't the best but dive deep inside and you see the beauty of lower cost, no filling of gas, no oil changes, no regular scheduled maintenance, no brakes replacements. You see OTA repairs, better service, better technology.
My new Model Y had a window regulator that had an issue. Really minor issue that my App was reading that it was opened when it was physically closed. I sent a repair request on my App, scheduled an appointment, and had a guy come to my home to replace it in 1 hr under warranty. I asked him why the replaced it when I thought it was an App issue vs sensing issue. He said they read my computer and found it needed to be replaced. Fixed and no further issues.
If this was my BMW, i would have had to spend half the day at the dealership.
This is the beauty I want long term but I get that some guys just want a hot girl to prance around. I am way past wanting that hot girl to show off. I like the subtle beauty with all qualities I really care about.
Hearing that electrical vehicle insurance is set to skyrocket
There is alot of misinformation from the ICE crowds who wants to squash EVs. All Non testa Brands are hurt b/c they can't compete. Tesla has macro economic issues with demand which will quickly be fixed with price cuts or improving economy.
You can get a Model 3 with rebates for about 35K. In 3 years, you would save 10K+ on gas/maintenance. From an economic standpoint, at 3 yrs you are essentially paid the same for a corolla but having a Tesla. IN 6 years, you will be way ahead.
If you drive it for 10 years, you would have recouped the total cost just on gas savings. Economically, it is a no brainer.
You can get a Model 3 with rebates for about 35K. In 3 years, you would save 10K+ on gas/maintenance. From an economic standpoint, at 3 yrs you are essentially paid the same for a corolla but having a Tesla. IN 6 years, you will be way ahead.
If you drive it for 10 years, you would have recouped the total cost just on gas savings. Economically, it is a no brainer.
Give me a ****ing break. Yeah the die has been cast by the Marxist in the WH.
I bet you also favored Cash For Clunkers where perfectly good vehicles were intentionally destroyed by Obama to STIMULATE THE ECONOMY!
I bet you also favored Cash For Clunkers where perfectly good vehicles were intentionally destroyed by Obama to STIMULATE THE ECONOMY!
It was posted on P77 of this thread, and somewhere else on this board. If it's not true then fine. I didn't dive into the fine details. And I agree EV's will be the future, just not in 10-years.hph6203 said:Medaggie said:
Things some of you guys debate about seems like a bunch of women.
Who cares if it is called a show room, dealership, parking lot, pit stop, repair shop? What is important is Tesla is not beholden to the dealerships and this is a huge advantage.
Because it's better than arguing over whether a Tesla is comparable to BMW, which is a completely subjective discussion and whether a showroom is a dealership is an absolute factual binary and is relevant to the reporting on EVs. Within 3 posts of your response, there is a person (the same person I was arguing about dealer terminology with) claiming that EV sales are falling, when Q3 was a record for sales for the product category. They grew 50% YoY in Q3 as compared to the broader automarket grew at 16%, that's with the largest manufacturer dealing with factory shutdowns at both factories in the U.S.
How do they come away with the idea that EV sales are falling, despite the fact they growing faster than the broader auto market? Because they read an article about how dealer inventory of EVs has increased to 100 days when the industry average is around 50 days, and they don't understand that the 100 days is not representative of all EV manufacturers, just the ones that are struggling with costs, and if you include the market leader the days of inventory falls relatively in line with the rest of the market. They're struggling with costs at the same time the market leader is slashing prices back to below where they were 2 years ago after a rapid rise in prices and they anticipated being able to build and sell their vehicles at the previously inflated prices that occurred due to supply shortages.
And BMW's are luxury vehicles. Tesla's are not. They're not in the same class regardless of ICE vs EV.
Logos Stick said:
I bet you also favored Cash For Clunkers where perfectly good vehicles were intentionally destroyed by Obama to STIMULATE THE ECONOMY!
They were fire hazards.
.
Quote:
And BMW's are luxury vehicles. Tesla's are not. They're not in the same class regardless of ICE vs EV.
Try stomping your feet next time and maybe we former BMW owners will believe you.
Saying that Tesla's are not luxury vehicles and BMW's are is as ridiculous as a Cadillac owner claiming BMW's are not luxury vehicles in the same way his Cadillac is because the BMW does not have a velour interior and a fake leather landau roof. Tesla's have a different esthetic than BMW, that's all. And given BMW's esthetic the last 10 years or so, I say that's a very good thing.agracer said:It was posted on P77 of this thread, and somewhere else on this board. If it's not true then fine. I didn't dive into the fine details. And I agree EV's will be the future, just not in 10-years.hph6203 said:Medaggie said:
Things some of you guys debate about seems like a bunch of women.
Who cares if it is called a show room, dealership, parking lot, pit stop, repair shop? What is important is Tesla is not beholden to the dealerships and this is a huge advantage.
Because it's better than arguing over whether a Tesla is comparable to BMW, which is a completely subjective discussion and whether a showroom is a dealership is an absolute factual binary and is relevant to the reporting on EVs. Within 3 posts of your response, there is a person (the same person I was arguing about dealer terminology with) claiming that EV sales are falling, when Q3 was a record for sales for the product category. They grew 50% YoY in Q3 as compared to the broader automarket grew at 16%, that's with the largest manufacturer dealing with factory shutdowns at both factories in the U.S.
How do they come away with the idea that EV sales are falling, despite the fact they growing faster than the broader auto market? Because they read an article about how dealer inventory of EVs has increased to 100 days when the industry average is around 50 days, and they don't understand that the 100 days is not representative of all EV manufacturers, just the ones that are struggling with costs, and if you include the market leader the days of inventory falls relatively in line with the rest of the market. They're struggling with costs at the same time the market leader is slashing prices back to below where they were 2 years ago after a rapid rise in prices and they anticipated being able to build and sell their vehicles at the previously inflated prices that occurred due to supply shortages.
And BMW's are luxury vehicles. Tesla's are not. They're not in the same class regardless of ICE vs EV.
If you stop throwing a tantrum then I'm happy to discuss.
I agree that mandates and incentives are stupid but no one cares when the big 3 gets preferential loans an bailouts. That's a whole diff debate.
But mandates are here, we agree it should not be. But the discussion is about the cars not the mandates.
If u start a thread on if mandates are good or bad, they thread will die quickly as everyone would agree.
I agree that mandates and incentives are stupid but no one cares when the big 3 gets preferential loans an bailouts. That's a whole diff debate.
But mandates are here, we agree it should not be. But the discussion is about the cars not the mandates.
If u start a thread on if mandates are good or bad, they thread will die quickly as everyone would agree.
Luxury is subjective. If you want to debate if Tesla is not lux due to material/looks then there is no debate imo.
If u include everything outside of just appearance then tesla is way more luxurious than any care available. This imo is not even debatable.
Tesla could add 10k with fancy materials but it's not why people buy it.
When I need OTA for recalls/improvements, dog more, remote climate, car location, storage those fancy materials does me no good.
I can go grocery shopping, put the perishable stuff and leave my car at 60 degrees and leave it for 2 hrs doing other errands. This matters to me.
If u include everything outside of just appearance then tesla is way more luxurious than any care available. This imo is not even debatable.
Tesla could add 10k with fancy materials but it's not why people buy it.
When I need OTA for recalls/improvements, dog more, remote climate, car location, storage those fancy materials does me no good.
I can go grocery shopping, put the perishable stuff and leave my car at 60 degrees and leave it for 2 hrs doing other errands. This matters to me.
Order Model S/X/Y for end-of-year delivery to transfer your free unlimited Supercharging → https://t.co/MvlrZN5GYJ
— Tesla North America (@tesla_na) October 20, 2023
Medaggie said:
Luxury is subjective. If you want to debate if Tesla is not lux due to material/looks then there is no debate imo.
If u include everything outside of just appearance then tesla is way more luxurious than any care available. This imo is not even debatable.
Tesla could add 10k with fancy materials but it's not why people buy it.
When I need OTA for recalls/improvements, dog more, remote climate, car location, storage those fancy materials does me no good.
I can go grocery shopping, put the perishable stuff and leave my car at 60 degrees and leave it for 2 hrs doing other errands. This matters to me.
I would think most people define a luxury car as one with high quality materials, fit and finish, comfortable seats, smooth ride, etc, which based on the couple teslas I've been in, don't have that. Just my 2 cents.
TXAG 05 said:Medaggie said:
Luxury is subjective. If you want to debate if Tesla is not lux due to material/looks then there is no debate imo.
If u include everything outside of just appearance then tesla is way more luxurious than any care available. This imo is not even debatable.
Tesla could add 10k with fancy materials but it's not why people buy it.
When I need OTA for recalls/improvements, dog more, remote climate, car location, storage those fancy materials does me no good.
I can go grocery shopping, put the perishable stuff and leave my car at 60 degrees and leave it for 2 hrs doing other errands. This matters to me.
I would think most people define a luxury car as one with high quality materials, fit and finish, comfortable seats, smooth ride, etc, which based on the couple teslas I've been in, don't have that. Just my 2 cents.
I would generally agree with that statement.
The challenge is the definition of luxury is subjective depending on a number of factors. I know some really wealthy people that consider virtually every mass produced car as pedestrian including Mercedes, BMW and Lexus while if you are poor, you kids consider a new Corolla as luxury.
This gets to the heart of the debate which is we need to let the free market work and let people be able to get the vehicles they want based on their needs and personal taste. We certainly don't want to have to drive Lada's which is what you get if you have one size fits all. Some people love EVs and others loathe them and both groups are right for their personal choice. Just don't make my choice for me.
Everything has its limits. I'm glad people did not have the choice to continue buying new vehicles that used leaded gasoline. Unfortunately, that took far too long and at a great cost to society as the industry threw up as many roadblocks as possible crying free market and overregulation.Kansas Kid said:
This gets to the heart of the debate which is we need to let the free market work and let people be able to get the vehicles they want based on their needs and personal taste. We certainly don't want to have to drive Lada's which is what you get if you have one size fits all. Some people love EVs and others loathe them and both groups are right for their personal choice. Just don't make my choice for me.
We emptied the entire drum magazine of a Tommy gun into the driver door Al Capone style. No bullets penetrated into the passenger compartment.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) October 20, 2023
.
New feature, road rage protection.
This is fair and I agree. But if you stayed at a luxury hotel that looks and smells great but the. The service sucks and can't sleep bc the AC can't cool the place down, the experience still stinks.
But yes, it's my hot gf who is crazy. Experience eventually sucks even if u can deal w her for a few months.
But yes, it's my hot gf who is crazy. Experience eventually sucks even if u can deal w her for a few months.
At the end of the day, you always have a choice. The gov is incentivizing a chosen product but you will always be able to buy an ice.
I am sure people were kicking/screaming when we went from LP to Cds back in the day.
I am sure people were kicking/screaming when we went from LP to Cds back in the day.
"Luxury is subjective" is just more cope from the can't afford luxury crowd
Laugh at it, pat their head, feel bad for them if you're so inclined; but don't take these folks seriously.
Laugh at it, pat their head, feel bad for them if you're so inclined; but don't take these folks seriously.
PlaneCrashGuy said:
"Luxury is subjective" is just more cope from the can't afford luxury crowd
Laugh at it, pat their head, feel bad for them if you're so inclined; but don't take these folks seriously.
Luxury cars per Edmonds
Audi.
BMW.
Cadillac.
Genesis.
Jaguar.
Land Rover.
What cars on the list are above the price of a Tesla Model S or X?
Take pity on the anti EV crowd because they make up stuff and twist facts not backed by facts in many cases.
What car listed above is Tesla?
"Tesla costs the same as these" is proof tesla owners got ripped off; it is not proof Tesla is luxury. HTH
"Tesla costs the same as these" is proof tesla owners got ripped off; it is not proof Tesla is luxury. HTH
Kansas Kid said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
"Luxury is subjective" is just more cope from the can't afford luxury crowd
Laugh at it, pat their head, feel bad for them if you're so inclined; but don't take these folks seriously.
Luxury cars per Edmonds
Audi.
BMW.
Cadillac.
Genesis.
Jaguar.
Land Rover.
What cars on the list are above the price of a Tesla Model S or X?
Take pity on the anti EV crowd because they make up stuff and twist facts not backed by facts in many cases.
Tesla is not listed. Why is that?
Mercedes struggles to sell EV's, due to, gasp, consumer demand:
Quote:
Like most government agencies, NGOs, and publicly traded companies, Mercedes-Benz has made a promise to be all-electric by 2030. The automaker intends to have every newly launched vehicle architecture be electric-only after 2024 and to gradually wean itself off combustion engines.
Unfortunately, the brand's sales trajectory doesn't appear to be cooperating. Despite seeing a surge of interest in its electrified EQ products initially, Mercedes has started having trouble moving EVs.
It's been a growing problem for several brands that have started to pivot toward all-electric products. However, luxury brands seemed to have the edge in EV sales as their customer base is more willing to be early adopters and typically has more disposable income.
Automotive News recently conducted a series of interviews with Mercedes retailers. Citing Edmunds data that shows Mercedes-Benz dealers took an average of 82 days to sell the brand's battery-powered EQ models in September (double BMW's 38-day turnaround rate while also being above the luxury segment average of 57 days), the outlet was hoping to shed some light on the matter.
From Automotive News:Quote:
Mercedes retailers interviewed by Automotive News blame their bloated stockpiles on the product and on the brand's unwillingness to respond to increased competition with sales programs. The dealers requested not to be identified for fear of retaliation.
A Mercedes store operator said he has a more than six-month supply of EVs compared with about a 50-day supply of gasoline-powered vehicles.
"The EVs are coming whether or not you asked for them or earned them," he said. "There is too much of a price premium especially at the top end of the EQ lineup and almost no [lease] support."
PlaneCrashGuy said:
What car listed above is Tesla?
"Tesla costs the same as these" is proof tesla owners got ripped off; it is not proof Tesla is luxury. HTH
But you said Tesla buyers buy them because they can't afford the others yet the Tesla costs more…
You're turning yourself in circles
PlaneCrashGuy said:Kansas Kid said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
"Luxury is subjective" is just more cope from the can't afford luxury crowd
Laugh at it, pat their head, feel bad for them if you're so inclined; but don't take these folks seriously.
Luxury cars per Edmonds
Audi.
BMW.
Cadillac.
Genesis.
Jaguar.
Land Rover.
What cars on the list are above the price of a Tesla Model S or X?
Take pity on the anti EV crowd because they make up stuff and twist facts not backed by facts in many cases.
Tesla is not listed. Why is that?
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-y/
Quote:
Think of the Tesla Model Y as an SUV-ified Model 3. Although this compact luxury crossover shares key styling cues and features with Tesla's smaller sedan, it's arguably the more important vehicle given its popular body style. Introduced for model year 2020, the Model Y is available with various AWD powertrain configurations and either five or seven seats.
Anyone ever heard of this Motortrend outfit?
Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
What car listed above is Tesla?
"Tesla costs the same as these" is proof tesla owners got ripped off; it is not proof Tesla is luxury. HTH
But you said Tesla buyers buy them because they can't afford the others yet the Tesla costs more…
You're turning yourself in circles
No circles required. You yourself explained that you bought a Tesla because you couldn't keep up with your BMW payments.
Thank you for your help showing this to others.
I guess my question would be what luxury features are you looking for inside the car that Tesla doesn't offer?
I know some manufacturers have started having massage chairs, does Tesla do that?
I know some manufacturers have started having massage chairs, does Tesla do that?
PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
What car listed above is Tesla?
"Tesla costs the same as these" is proof tesla owners got ripped off; it is not proof Tesla is luxury. HTH
But you said Tesla buyers buy them because they can't afford the others yet the Tesla costs more…
You're turning yourself in circles
No circles required. You yourself explained that you bought a Tesla because you couldn't keep up with your BMW payments.
Thank you for your help showing this to others.
I bought a Model Y, which cost more than my BMW, because I couldn't afford the BMW?
More circles.
Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:Teslag said:PlaneCrashGuy said:
What car listed above is Tesla?
"Tesla costs the same as these" is proof tesla owners got ripped off; it is not proof Tesla is luxury. HTH
But you said Tesla buyers buy them because they can't afford the others yet the Tesla costs more…
You're turning yourself in circles
No circles required. You yourself explained that you bought a Tesla because you couldn't keep up with your BMW payments.
Thank you for your help showing this to others.
I bought a Model Y, which cost more than my BMW, because I couldn't afford the BMW?
More circles.
And suddenly you're content to ignore the maintenance costs you've lamented for 10 pages now. You'll catch up. Just keep working hard.
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