hph6203 said:

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Those commies probably translate it to boot instead of frunk.

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Front boot. So … froot.

JayM said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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Teslag said:

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Is it? The "cultish" EV owners aren't the ones who keep starting these threads. Or that post daily updates about them. Generally, EV owners enjoy their vehicles and will happily share experiences if asked. Were there some obnoxious Tesla owners in the early days when it was an expensive niche vehicle? Of course. But now it's the most popular car in the country and I can't remember the last time I saw one with a vanity plate.

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These obnoxious types are everywhere in west Austin. 25% of them have vanity plates reminding us of their electric vehicles. 50% of them insist on taking off at lights in aggressive fashion. I get it. It's fun. But they love to show off.

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I live in East Texas and I don't have a Tesla. But I do have a certain Ford Truck. I don't have vanity plates. And if I'm first in line at a light with a reasonable speed limit, I accelerate fast. I enjoy it and I can assume those behind me are rightly confused. If I had to find affirmation as an EV owner from the ICE public, I get that when I pop the frunk to put groceries in. That amazes some people.

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That's a mighty big frunk you have but do you know how to use it?!?!

Groundbreaking to production in ~18 months or less if it begins production before the end of next year. China does not inherently control the lithium supply. The refinery planned to produce enough lithium to build 1 million vehicles annually. That's 1/8th of the U.S. annual vehicle sales.

BREAKING: Tesla expects production at its Lithium refinery in Texas to start sooner than expected, according to Tesla Sr. Manager of Operations Jason Bevan.

"We will begin commissioning the assets, roughly the first of next year, and that will continue, in earnest, over the… pic.twitter.com/uEY1VDOpY6

— Sawyer Merritt (@SawyerMerritt) October 5, 2023

The city/region powered by plants supplied by this coal line is what is used to refine the vast majority of lithium used by EV's.

But you should still swop your boiler for a heat pump to save the planet. https://t.co/j0rHgybvEB

— Andrew Neil (@afneil) October 5, 2023

nortex97 said:

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The city/region powered by plants supplied by this coal line is what is used to refine the vast majority of lithium used by EV's.

But you should still swop your boiler for a heat pump to save the planet. https://t.co/j0rHgybvEB

— Andrew Neil (@afneil) October 5, 2023

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so what? I think it's been established that 99.9% of the people that own Tesla's on this thread aren't tree huggers ....but keep copying and pasting....you almost have me convinced my Tesla is bad LOL!

Need to see the design calcs on that elevated railway, support spacing is…interesting

Cool. This refinery is in Texas.

Steve Harvey type delivery. He really chose the wrong career smh pic.twitter.com/ud7n3hEa0x

— james 🦕 (uncle of 4) (@JimboExotic) October 2, 2023

Despite what some might want, I don't consider this about 'EV owners on this thread.' In fact, it's funny that would even be asserted, frankly.

Anyway, Nio loses $30K/car sold.

Quote:

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But a new report in the New York Times lays bays exactly how much of an advantage Chinese firms have when it comes to pricing their cars. The standout stat in the article is that Nio loses $35,000 on every car it makes. No wonder European automakers and regulators are worried.

American automakers are already protected to some degree in their home market from Chinese competition by import tariffs. But if China's car companies like Nio can sustain those kind of losses and still keep powering forward, at least for now, then America should be every bit as concerned as its allies in Europe.

The Times reports that backing from the Chinese government enables firms like Nio to keep growing, despite losing money. It says that when Nio came close to running out of cash in 2020, the local government pumped in $1 billion for a 24 percent stake in the firm, which was topped up by a further $1.6 billion from a group led by a state-controlled bank. Not all Chinese automakers are losing money though; BYD tripled profit to $1.5 billion in the first half of this year, the [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/business/nio-china-electric-vehicles.html]NYT[ reports[/url].

Companies like Nio are also able to build cars for far less outlay than Western brands require. The average worker at a Chinese car factory earns $30,000, which is close to a quarter of what unionized American auto workers receive in pay and benefits, and when researchers performed a teardown on a BYD Seal EV they estimated it cost at least 35 percent less to make than a Europe-built VW ID.3. Chinese firms are also at the cutting edge of battery technology.

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This is a political issue.

Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

Facts not in discussion, and w can't discuss that brand without it becoming overly emotional and irrational.

Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Remember, we aren't supposed to discuss Tesla, the market leader and maker of America's most popular car, on an EV thread.

nortex97 said:

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Despite what some might want, I don't consider this about 'EV owners on this thread.' In fact, it's funny that would even be asserted, frankly.

Anyway, Nio loses $30K/car sold.

Quote:

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But a new report in the New York Times lays bays exactly how much of an advantage Chinese firms have when it comes to pricing their cars. The standout stat in the article is that Nio loses $35,000 on every car it makes. No wonder European automakers and regulators are worried.

American automakers are already protected to some degree in their home market from Chinese competition by import tariffs. But if China's car companies like Nio can sustain those kind of losses and still keep powering forward, at least for now, then America should be every bit as concerned as its allies in Europe.

The Times reports that backing from the Chinese government enables firms like Nio to keep growing, despite losing money. It says that when Nio came close to running out of cash in 2020, the local government pumped in $1 billion for a 24 percent stake in the firm, which was topped up by a further $1.6 billion from a group led by a state-controlled bank. Not all Chinese automakers are losing money though; BYD tripled profit to $1.5 billion in the first half of this year, the [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/business/nio-china-electric-vehicles.html]NYT[ reports[/url].

Companies like Nio are also able to build cars for far less outlay than Western brands require. The average worker at a Chinese car factory earns $30,000, which is close to a quarter of what unionized American auto workers receive in pay and benefits, and when researchers performed a teardown on a BYD Seal EV they estimated it cost at least 35 percent less to make than a Europe-built VW ID.3. Chinese firms are also at the cutting edge of battery technology.

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This is a political issue.

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This is really only a problem for mandated electric vehicle adoption, unless China is going to subsidize ICE manufacturers too.

Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Without unions, and without dealerships, and with huge government subsidies.

bmks270 said:

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Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Without unions, and without dealerships, and with huge government subsidies.

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And, they have partnered tremendously with the CCP, of course. Xi Jinping himself has seen Musk's company and himself personally as a key.

Quote:

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"Mr. Xi viewed the South African-born entrepreneur as a technology utopian... and saw his Tesla Inc. as a spearhead that could make China a power in new-energy cars. Mr. Xi rewrote the rulebook to allow foreign companies sole ownership of auto ventures so Mr. Musk would open an electric-vehicle factory in Shanghai," reports WSJ.

Furthermore, "Authorities showered him with cheap land, low-interest loans and tax incentives, expecting in return that Tesla would groom local suppliers and bolster lagging Chinese electric-vehicle players, say people with knowledge of the talks between Beijing and the company."

It's reported that, "Chinese leaders had grown frustrated with domestic electric-vehicle companies' performance and saw Tesla as an opportunity to reset the country's auto industry."
In turn, "Tesla's arrival whetted people's interest in electric vehicles. The 2019 launch of the made-in-China Tesla Model 3 helped convince consumers such vehicles were a viable alternative to gasoline cars."

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Again, the politics, policy, trade, environmental, and human impacts of this 'transition' (back) to BEV vehicles for power matters. These reasons are why I strive to never buy such a vehicle.

bmks270 said:

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Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Without unions, and without dealerships, and with huge government subsidies.

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My understanding is that Tesla does not receive any U.S. Government subsidies. The tax credit goes direct to eligible buyers.

JamesE4 said:

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bmks270 said:

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Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Without unions, and without dealerships, and with huge government subsidies.

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My understanding is that Tesla does not receive any U.S. Government subsidies. The tax credit goes direct to eligible buyers.

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And for about 4 years they lost it up until last year. Tesla doesn't need them to be profitable. People simply want their cars.

That was after the success… that is the only way you can get a factory open there.

The government subsidies were in the low single digit billions, any of the legacies could have easily borrowed this much money or raised the capital if they were competent.

Lots of car companies do business in China right? Tesla can do it on good terms because they're the segment leader

On the topic of cars, Texas's own Detroit or Port Arthur needs a few car factories don't you all think?

JamesE4 said:

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bmks270 said:

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Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Without unions, and without dealerships, and with huge government subsidies.

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My understanding is that Tesla does not receive any U.S. Government subsidies. The tax credit goes direct to eligible buyers.

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Why does it matter they have no union. A lot of cars are made without union labor.

The lack of dealerships shows that they are a liability to legacy car companies but they use their political power to try to keep themselves in the middle siphoning off money for no real value created.

JamesE4 said:

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bmks270 said:

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Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Without unions, and without dealerships, and with huge government subsidies.

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My understanding is that Tesla does not receive any U.S. Government subsidies. The tax credit goes direct to eligible buyers.

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Distinction without a difference.

JamesE4 said:

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bmks270 said:

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Manhattan said:

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Tesla has proven it is possible to build profitable EVs.

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Without unions, and without dealerships, and with huge government subsidies.

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My understanding is that Tesla does not receive any U.S. Government subsidies. The tax credit goes direct to eligible buyers.

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Tesla prices hit an all time high while they were out of rebates.

Oh look at the electric bus on fire in London; smack in the center of the ‘clean air zone.’ pic.twitter.com/brAzvHIGuf

— 🇺🇸ProudArmyBrat (@leslibless) October 10, 2023

It'd be a shame if that huge BEV fire took out a few of their ULEZ cameras.

Do they need to put airplane-style escape slides on the upper level of double-decker electric buses?

That turned out…. Poorly for you.

nortex97 said:

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Oh look at the electric bus on fire in London; smack in the center of the ‘clean air zone.’ https://t.co/brAzvHIGuf

— 🇺🇸ProudArmyBrat (@leslibless) October 10, 2023

It'd be a shame if that huge BEV fire took out a few of their ULEZ cameras.

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So a hybrid diesel bus catches on fire well outside of London in a city with no ULEZ zones.

hph6203 said:

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That turned out…. Poorly for you.

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Haha, that is funny. Ah well, the humor of the tweet before the correction still made me laugh.

Anyway, Li Ion battery fires are dangerous, and BEV buses have large ones. It's sadly a growing problem:

Li ion and Li polymer battery fires burn hotter & take 5-6 times longer to extinguish. 29 minutes for ICE vs 2 hours for EV.
But a bigger problem that no one talks about is charging fires & the exposure problems.
Here, one EV bus in China catches fire and 54 more go up in flames. pic.twitter.com/5rzlcpr0YI

— END2008 (@END2008) October 6, 2022

Another Tata Electric Bus catches fire in Mumbai... This is the second incident of the Tata EV bus catching fire in 2 months... @kkorde01 @Pritesh7994https://t.co/OTTbboaGu3

— G Force 🇮🇳 (@gau_dab) September 1, 2023

EV Buses can cost lives ... the US is being too quick to convert public transportation to EV Buses when they do not have adequately trained First Responders and Equipment to handle a crash https://t.co/ibV2v6KYco

— Suzanne Arundale (@ArundaleSuzanne) October 6, 2023

I'm sure having a frunk to store your groceries and beating other drivers off the line more than make up for the fiery death risk, and the shorter life/poor resale/expensive battery replacement, and the long lines to charge, long times to charge, and driving around with range anxiety. That's all before you even consider the green zero emissions climate saving virtue signaling you get to do if you ignore the child labor and china dependency mining lithium and cobalt and charging on a grid fueled by coal and natural gas fired power plants.

oh no said:

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I'm sure having a frunk to store your groceries and beating other drivers off the line more than make up for the fiery death risk, and the shorter life/poor resale/expensive battery replacement, and the long lines to charge, long times to charge, and driving around with range anxiety. That's all before you even consider the green zero emissions climate saving virtue signaling you get to do if you ignore the child labor and china dependency mining lithium and cobalt and charging on a grid fueled by coal and natural gas fired power plants.

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Yes to the frunk. Yes to the acceleration. I charge at home. No anxiety at all. I couldn't give two ***ts about the resale. I bought it with cash. No truck notes. I will buy the next one with cash. Just an expenditure for a tool. I'm not worried about the environmental issues with the mining for lithium, cobalt or nickle anymore than you are concerned about impact from extraction of hydrocarbons and the emissions that combustion causes. Or for that matter mining for the stuff in your cell phone and cordless drill. We all live with tradeoffs. We don't do horse and buggies anymore. Oh, I don't worry about hydrocarbon emissions either. I just don't have as many hydrocarbon emissions as you do.

Do you have fun in life?

i just said i'm sure it more than makes up for it.

oh no said:

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i just said i'm sure it more than makes up for it.

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So you don't have fun. You are responding in the middle of the day so I assume you are either old (and bitter) or a young worker incapable of concentrating on the task. I am retired, financially secure and happy!

Give me a break. Like we are supposed to worry about lithium mining. In Australia, the worlds top lithium producer? I gotta go. Gonna jump in the truck and run some errands.

Quote:

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and the long lines to charge,

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Lol, I see we just went for the make up **** part of the argument early.

Quote:

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child labor and china dependency mining lithium

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Yep. Those poor Australian kids. Crikey.

I find it interesting the great concern about fire risks of death but no one talks about the real risk of death in cars which is impacts with other vehicles or road hazards. For those, EVs have shown to be much safer based on IIHS safety ratings.

Why? Because the crumple zones don't have to factor in an engine compartment, they are low CG so they are hard to roll over and their extra weight vs similar cars.

For you fire focused people, why don't you worry about impact deaths which is the vast majority of all vehicle deaths?