I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.

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Demosthenes81
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4:33p, 6/8/23
AG
GM joining the Tesla standard. How long before the DOJ steps in to stop free market efficiency run rampant?


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nortex97
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In reply to Demosthenes81 • 4:49a, 6/15/23
AG
Paper out that discusses how…California is going to have to choose between powering their (mandated) EV's or the rest of the grid.

It's a pdf so it's a pain to copy/paste, but this is their conclusion from page 40:



Some excerpted analysis from I&I.
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Old Sarge
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In reply to nortex97 • 6:47a, 6/15/23
AG
nortex97 said:


CNN wants everyone to be forced to go EV by 2035.


This is 1984 level of propaganda, on steroids. This level of Useful Idiot is dangerous.
"Green" is the new RED.
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torrid
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:08a, 6/15/23
AG
nortex97 said:
Paper out that discusses how…California is going to have to choose between powering their (mandated) EV's or the rest of the grid.

It's a pdf so it's a pain to copy/paste, but this is their conclusion from page 40:



Some excerpted analysis from I&I.
What I want to know is if everyone switched to EVs overnight, how much larger would the grid need to be compared today? And that doesn't consider getting rid of gas heaters and ranges.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to torrid • 12:18p, 6/15/23
AG
How is that a useful number? I'd be much more concerned with trying to sequence and level expansion of capacity with the expansion that will be required by demand.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
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Manhattan
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In reply to torrid • 12:22p, 6/15/23
Take the electrical demand during the day vs night, subtract solar, multiply by hours, divide by 10kWh is roughly how many cars it can support going 40 miles per day.
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nortex97
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In reply to torrid • 12:35p, 6/15/23
AG
torrid said:
nortex97 said:
Paper out that discusses how…California is going to have to choose between powering their (mandated) EV's or the rest of the grid.

It's a pdf so it's a pain to copy/paste, but this is their conclusion from page 40:



Some excerpted analysis from I&I.
What I want to know is if everyone switched to EVs overnight, how much larger would the grid need to be compared today? And that doesn't consider getting rid of gas heaters and ranges.
California said something like $5,000 to $7,000 per new BEV added is needed for infrastructure/charging. And we all know California has a history of over-estimating costs though, which wind up coming in much cheaper for everyone than planned/hoped for.

McKinsey has an analysis recently that is not bad. I'd note the reference to 'charging equity.'
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fka ftc
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12:45p, 6/15/23
Common Sense Article on Future of Vehicle "Fuels"...

https://robbreport.com/best-of-the-best/gallery/2023-best-of-the-best-automotive-1234845960/utopia_03-1/

Quote:
Today's rechargeable lithium-ion setup relies on mineralsnickel, magnesium, cobalt, and graphitethat require extensive mining, and the liquid electrolyte is highly flammable.
snip

But if eliminating emissions is the overall goal, then abandoning the internal-combustion engine (ICE) entirely might be premature when sustainable gas, also known as e-fuel, is factored in. Motorsports have long been a real-world, high-stress laboratory for automotive tech, and many racing insiders see ICE systems remaining relevant. "I'm sure there's a lot more development that can be done on the internal-combustion engine," says Zak Brown, CEO of Formula 1 team McLaren Racing. He believes the areas of focus will be "hybrid, the fuels, and the regeneration of energy."

Snip

"The industry is constantly working on alternativesit has to," says Dr. K. Venkatesh Prasad, senior vice president and chief innovation officer at the Center for Automotive Research. "To put electrification in perspective, it's big, it's happening right now," he says. "But electrification is not the end."
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torrid
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 12:51p, 6/15/23
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
How is that a useful number? I'd be much more concerned with trying to sequence and level expansion of capacity with the expansion that will be required by demand.
Because it would help me get a handle on how much more generating capacity would be needed if all vehicles suddenly went electric compared to right now. Forget the source, just generating capacity. Would it require an expansion of 10%? Or 100%? I honestly don't know.
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AgBandsman
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In reply to Manhattan • 12:59p, 6/15/23
AG
Manhattan said:
Take the electrical demand during the day vs night, subtract solar, multiply by hours, divide by 10kWh is roughly how many cars it can support going 40 miles per day.
I can't wait until the government limits our travel to 40 miles per day (or less) to keep the grid afloat.
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Manhattan
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In reply to AgBandsman • 5:53p, 6/15/23
That's how much people travel… buy an Aptera, then you can go wherever you want without a refinery or a power grid.
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nortex97
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9:53a, 6/28/23
AG
Media notice EV's weigh a lot…

Quote:
From California to New York state to the federal government and internationally, the powers that be have been on a tear to declare the ICE deadly and obsolete, while the EV in all its incarnations is the future.

Perhaps the bloom is coming off of that overly optimistic and premature rose.

Some EV business models aren't motoring along as well as previously anticipated, even with subsidies and buyer incentives.


Quote:
Another EV start-up in Ohio, Lordstown Motors which manufactured the "Endurance" EV, filed for both bankruptcy and a breach-of-contract lawsuit this morning.
Quote:
Lordstown Motors officially filed for bankruptcy and sued Foxconn early Tuesday morning after a tumultuous few months in the stock market as its deal with Foxconn fell apart.
The official filing for bankruptcy was filed in Delaware on Tuesday.
The filing estimates Lordstown EV Corporation has 5,001 to 10,000 creditors and estimates $100,000,001 to $500 million in assets and liabilities.
The sales worries aren't confined to U.S. manufacturers, either. Not only is Volkswagen is cutting back on EV production at its facility in Emden, Germany because of lackluster sales it's indefinitely delaying the planned start of a new model that was scheduled for July. They're only going to produce a "few models in advance." As well, the company had planned a third shift to start in the fall in anticipation of EV sales that never materialized, and now that shift won't either.
But don't worry team lithium on wheels, Biden is going to give a wonderful, no doubt very clear/concise speech shortly about the wonders of "Bidenomics" that will no doubt also include cogent details about electric vehicle awesomeness.
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Manhattan
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In reply to nortex97 • 9:58a, 6/28/23
A $465,000,000 DOE loan from the Obama/Biden admin saved a company that now has 100,000 jobs in the US and a $819,000,000,000 market cap.
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torrid
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10:00a, 6/28/23
AG
Every car maker keeps trotting out expensive electric halo vehicles, however it doesn't take much to see that anyone who really wants an EV is going to buy a Tesla.
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nortex97
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In reply to Manhattan • 10:03a, 6/28/23
AG
Manhattan said:
A $465,000,000 DOE loan from the Obama/Biden admin saved a company that now has 100,000 jobs in the US and a $819,000,000,000 market cap.
A company that produces zero batteries made with US-majority components, and almost none made in the US at all, which is losing massive amounts of cash on EV's.

But would you perhaps like to cite something less relevant, like your favorite color or something?
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Manhattan
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:04a, 6/28/23
The majority of Tesla cells shipping in US cars are made in the US.
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nortex97
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In reply to torrid • 10:05a, 6/28/23
AG
torrid said:
Every car maker keeps trotting out expensive electric halo vehicles, however it doesn't take much to see that anyone who really wants an EV is going to buy a Tesla.
Mostly, though for pickups there are some other decent options like Rivian/Chevy/Ford etc.
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nortex97
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In reply to Manhattan • 10:07a, 6/28/23
AG
Manhattan said:
The majority of Tesla cells shipping in US cars are made in the US.
Try to re-read my previous post, please. Where do you think the materials for those batteries are refined and who they are fully committed to?
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Manhattan
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:13a, 6/28/23
How am I supposed to predict where you are going to move the goalposts to?
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Manhattan
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10:15a, 6/28/23
As for the materials, we had to import oil and gas from outside North America until the Obama administration and we did just fine.
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nortex97
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In reply to Manhattan • 10:19a, 6/28/23
AG
Manhattan said:
As for the materials, we had to import oil and gas from outside North America until the Obama administration and we did just fine.
Your poor reading comprehension doesn't constitute moving anything on my part.

We also have to import more oil and gas for the expansion of electrical generation/distribution requirements for EV's, especially if Biden succeeds in minimizing US drilling. Shifting to discussing the expansion of domestic fracking despite Obama being in office…is actually moving the goalpost, but nice try!
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aggieforester05
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In reply to torrid • 10:24a, 6/28/23
AG
torrid said:
Every car maker keeps trotting out expensive electric halo vehicles, however it doesn't take much to see that anyone who really wants an EV is going to buy a Tesla.
If one has the means, it seems to me that the Porsche Taycan is by far the best quality outside of the hyper expensive Rimac.
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Teslag
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In reply to torrid • 10:28a, 6/28/23
AG
torrid said:
Every car maker keeps trotting out expensive electric halo vehicles, however it doesn't take much to see that anyone who really wants an EV is going to buy a Tesla.
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oh no
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10:30a, 6/28/23
AG
nice to see Obama, the champion of domestic US oilfield production, has entered the conversation here.
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tk for tu juan
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10:33a, 6/28/23
https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2023/06/21/2023-most-american-made-cars/
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Teslag
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 10:33a, 6/28/23
AG
Shhhh, you will not stray from the chosen narrative.
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cecil77
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In reply to Manhattan • 10:34a, 6/28/23
AG
Manhattan said:
A $465,000,000 DOE loan from the Obama/Biden admin saved a company that now has 100,000 jobs in the US and a $819,000,000,000 market cap.
Yet that is still an improper use of government funds.
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cecil77
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In reply to Manhattan • 10:35a, 6/28/23
AG
Manhattan said:
As for the materials, we had to import oil and gas from outside North America until the Obama administration and we did just fine.

Wrong. We chose to.
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Teslag
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In reply to cecil77 • 10:39a, 6/28/23
AG
Yep, and thankfully we turned our domestic oil production inward and became a net exporter under Trump. The US can and should provide for its own energy needs. Speaking of which...

https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-lithium-refinery-groundbreaking


Quote:
Today, we are breaking ground on Tesla's in-house lithium refinery, located in the greater Corpus Christi area of Texas. Once complete, the facility will represent an investment of >$1B in Southwest Texas. This investment is critical to our mission to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy and represents our efforts to aggressively increase the supply of battery-grade lithium hydroxide available in North America.


Drill baby drill and dig baby dig.
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ShinerAggie
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10:57a, 6/28/23
AG
SIAP, but in regards to EV trucks:
Rivian R1T Owner Says Fender Bender Repair Bill Totaled Over $42,000

Seems that insurers aren't willing to take much risk if there is even a chance the battery is damaged.
________________________________________________________ "Citizens are deceived en masse but enlightened one at a time."
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techno-ag
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:04a, 6/28/23
AG
But but but… I was assured a little ol' Tesla weighed no more than an F-350.

Quote:
For example, EVs weigh a buttload, thanks to that battery, which can be anywhere from 1000-2000 (which is a ton) lbs. The average is about a grand of extra weight on the vehicle. As a set of regular tires will wear out 20% faster on an EV than an ICE, they have to have specially formulated tires to handle the load and torque.

The Brits are finding out that that extra weight raises hell with road surfaces.
Trump will fix it.
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oh no
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In reply to ShinerAggie • 11:07a, 6/28/23
AG
/ scratches Rivian off the "potential interest" list


Anyone know if Rivian will survive? I thought I read a while back about some liquidity / bankruptcy concerns
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tk for tu juan
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11:07a, 6/28/23
Model 3 ~ 3,800 lbs
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Manhattan
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In reply to techno-ag • 11:07a, 6/28/23
They don't, and of course the tires wear out faster, the majority of Teslas sold in the US go 0-60 in 4.8s or less.
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techno-ag
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In reply to Manhattan • 11:10a, 6/28/23
AG
Manhattan said:
They don't, and of course the tires wear out faster, the majority of Teslas sold in the US go 0-60 in 4.8s or less.
Trump will fix it.
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