Sq 17 said:

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cecil77 said:

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Read the fine print on your Home Owners policy possibly being your own electrician is not allowed

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Insurance companies don't make laws. They only decide when they won't pay.

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You did not break any laws just possibly broke the contract you signed

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I'm sure he will sleep just fine knowing that

fka ftc said:

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When people post like this on a public forum, I think there should be direct legal liability for the poster giving incredibly bad and dangerous advice.

There is a reason there are codes, standards, licensing, training, permitting etc when doing such work.

Swapping a receptacle, switch, ceiling fan etc is drastically different then messing with high voltages and amperages and working on your own service panel is monumentally dumb unless properly trained.

And I will admit to flagging Teslags post for violating the law. Whilst maybe not technically against the law in his Hundred Acre Woods, it is in most all jurisdictions.

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What an idiotic post, nice job

GAC06 said:

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But the good news is no one is forcing you to buy an EV.

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false and you know it

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/california-mandates-electric-cars-for-2035.html

.@POTUS thinks this is a good look.

He thinks this is eco-friendly (electric!).
He thinks this is the future.
He’s so wrong.

This 9,000 behemoth is not only incredibly eco-unfriendly but is a huge safety hazard to vulnerable road users.

Our “car guy” POTUS needs to do better. https://t.co/msFoOUF7tq

— Streets For All (@streetsforall) January 31, 2023

Poopy pants even being mocked by the enviro-leftists who will inevitably pull levers yet again for the (D) candidate in 2024 regardless of whether it's him on the ballot or not.

EV's have turned this forum into code enforcement enthusiasts and fans of ordinances and regulations. Good stuff.

We all know it's not the voltage that gets you, it's the amperage!

I'll work on a live 15a circuit if it's something minor, but I do happen to have a current tester and I do normally shut the breaker off, but then most of my power circuits are 20a at the house.

What's the big deal with 240v, it's just a black, a red, a neutral and a ground. The manufacturer gives you instructions on the wiring connections.

But by all means, pay someone to do it, spread it around man!

GAC06 said:

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EV's have turned this forum into code enforcement enthusiasts and fans of ordinances and regulations. Good stuff.

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I am all for less regulations and code enforcement. Any idea how many inspections are required in Houston? You know its about to get substantially more complicated with what Mayor Sly is currently up to?

Heres the deal. I, along with many others here, have extensive experience in construction, particularly residential construction. Most all will tell the novice DIYer posting on TexAgs that playing with electricity in your home, particularly running higher amps/volts (current), will get you in trouble.

If folks want to turn that into a joke, so be it. Take it to the general board and have all the fun you guys want.

VitruvianAg said:

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We all know it's not the voltage that gets you, it's the amperage!

I'll work on a live 15a circuit if it's something minor, but I do happen to have a current tester and I do normally shut the breaker off, but then most of my power circuits are 20a at the house.

What's the big deal with 240v, it's just a black, a red, a neutral and a ground. The manufacturer gives you instructions on the wiring connections.

But by all means, pay someone to do it, spread it around man!

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And more bad info. Its volts + amps, or current, that can kill depending on resistance of what part of the body / clothing / tools one is using.

Risk of making a mistake is the problem. Average joe has trouble putting ikea **** together. You are telling them to play with something where turning your head when your wife is yelling at you about the dog can result in your death.

Its not about money at all. Again, it would save me money in my work. But you do you.

This board isn't full of average joes. It's full of people who graduated from one of the finest pubic universities in the world. We can handle a simple circuit install.

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novice DIYer posting on TexAgs

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How on earth can you assume that posters are "novice"?

Sounds like you just don't want to lose the business, which is funny, because if your assertions occur, it makes for more business for you.

How long have you been a licensed electrician?

cecil77 said:

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novice DIYer posting on TexAgs

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How on earth can you assume that posters are "novice"?

Sounds like you just don't want to lose the business, which is funny, because if your assertions occur, it makes for more business for you.

How long have you been a licensed electrician?

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Out of respect for other posters and knowing you read and clarified, I am editing out my verbal vomit back and forth.

As uncle cecil77 says "be careful and consider hiring a licensed professional if you are not familiar with the task at hand, including risk of injury, death and/or property destruction." (paraphrased)

Fair enough and thanks for the response.

However, many, many homeowners, particularly Aggies with engineering degrees are well aware of their capabilities. I'll change breakers and maybe even put in a sub panel. Outlets and switches I'd feel "icky" paying someone to do. I personally wouldn't run a new 240V line, but IMO anyone who does it themselves is confident enough to get it done.

Also, impugning one for agreeing with someone whose political opinions they oppose about non-political things is kinda liberal, isn't it?

And I "care" if someone gets hurt, but it's really none of my business, at most a sincere "be careful, you might want to consider hiring that out". It's your assumption of ineptitude that's inappropriate.

And I, personally, could give a rat's arse about permits on my personal property for tasks I personally do. As far as "code" goes, many times it's a minimum requirement that should be surpassed anyway.

cecil77 said:

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Fair enough and thanks for the response.

However, many, many homeowner, particularly Aggies with engineering degrees are well aware of their capabilities. I'll change breakers and maybe even put in a sub panel. Outlets and switches I'd feel "icky" paying someone to do. I personally wouldn't run a new 240V line, but IMO anyone who does it themselves is confident enough to get it done.

Also, impugning one for agreeing with someone whose political opinions they oppose about non-political things is kinda liberal, isn't it?

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You have been around here a long time and I respect that. The true irony is your clarification lines up exactly with what I posted.

I too am comfortable doing work typical of the average DIYer. And you are experienced and you indicate strong experience yet also agree running 240v is something you would likely outsource.


Out of respect for other posters and knowing you read and clarified, I am editing out my verbal vomit back and forth.


As uncle cecil77 says "be careful and consider hiring a licensed professional if you are not familiar with the task at hand, including risk of injury, death and/or property destruction." (paraphrased)

fka ftc said:

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cecil77 said:

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novice DIYer posting on TexAgs

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How on earth can you assume that posters are "novice"?

Sounds like you just don't want to lose the business, which is funny, because if your assertions occur, it makes for more business for you.

How long have you been a licensed electrician?

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Out of respect for other posters and knowing you read and clarified, I am editing out my verbal vomit back and forth.

As uncle cecil77 says "be careful and consider hiring a licensed professional if you are not familiar with the task at hand, including risk of injury, death and/or property destruction." (paraphrased)

Fair point. (to your redacted comment) Personally I didn't think it provacative.

I do think you over did it a bit though. The money comment was inappropriate, apologies. The query about licensed was not, though in the initial comments.

Proposed Illinois legislation to require EV charging stations could make homes more expensive | Just The News https://t.co/fuXXtpQZPA

— John Solomon (@jsolomonReports) February 14, 2023

LOL @ "could."

Shamelessly stolen from the auto board (Ram EV thread) but hilarious.

nortex97 said:

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Shamelessly stolen from the auto board (Ram EV thread) but hilarious.

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Ironically, the Ram electric is due sometime "late 2024."

I don't know about Illinois, but most of the homes around here have the electrical panel in the garage. Wiring a NEMA 14-50 outlet 1-2 feet away from the panel seems like a fairly small cost increase in parts and labor.

I don't see an estimated cost in the article, all it says is "For every $1,000 price increase on a home, you knock out 6,000 buyers."

There is no way a 220v in the garage next to the panel costs $1k. I'm sure a builder on here can correct me. But a 50-amp breaker is what, $25-$50? About $5 for a few feet of Romex, and maybe 15-30 minutes of an electrician's time. So builder's cost is $100-$150 at most?

Anyway, don't most homes have a 220v outlet for the dryer even if the owner uses a gas dryer? I don't see any outrage at that long-standing building practice.

I installed my own for about $120 in materials. It costs a new build next to nothing to make that run, especially if the panel is in the garage. It's basically another dryer connection.

Good post and this gets contentious every time it is brought up but my honest answer is just 'it depends.' I think realistically a 'good' level 2 charger for 2 cars in the garage would mean more wiring, and also I'd insist on additional smoke detectors etc. as well (frankly, I'd insist on a fire suppression system with fire department alerts/escape plan for the family, but that's a rant that is beyond the scope of this thread).

The bottom line is builders don't put stuff in 'at cost' and also have overhead related to liability/warranty costs. My guess is it really is in the neighborhood of $1,200 to $4,500 to do it right. The big guys like Bank of America are financing them now because…they are 'big ticket' items for the masses (avg Americans).

Add (for others), I have 2 college kids. Would the dream EV plan be for me to have 4 of these plugged in when they are home? We know many friends with 5 or more vehicles in the family, is that…not something that could easily be wired to charge them overnight? I sure think it sounds that way.

To keep costs down, I would assume builders would wire for the 220-240v but not install any specific level 2 charging hardware. That way the infrastructure is there if one wants to use an EV and can install their own level 2 hardware if desired. But for those that don't have an EV, they will have only paid for an wiring/outlet they don't use.

I agree with you on the safety aspect. I personally am adding a heat alarm to the garage. So you're probably right there would be a bit extra for a fire detector or heat alarm.

For the multi-vehicle scenario, I don't think a family needs one outlet for each vehicle. Most people aren't driving the full range of the EV each day. Most should be able to stagger which days/nights they charge. Maybe one outlet for every two vehicles seems reasonable.

Now I can see builders turning this into a profit center and up-charging (no pun intended) significantly as they do on other 'upgrades', but that's a discussion for a different thread.

LOL many times at this article about EV owners now paying more than gas etc.

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How is it possible that the electricity to power the car is more than the gas?

In parts of the country, watching your meter spin as you try to charge up can make you physically ill.

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…Power rates across the region have jumped an average of 30% since last summer, while gasoline prices have receded well below their peak in June of 2022. Web engineer Matt Cain, who lives in Amherst, Massachusetts, said he ran a price comparison when his electricity bill shot up in January and found that his overall costs for utilities had climbed a whopping 50%.

"We have a Prius Prime that we normally drive around town, and we drive most of it on electricity. It's now 50% more expensive than fueling it with gas," he told CBS MoneyWatch.

Cain said the price hike hasn't changed his driving habits. But it has prompted his wife, who works at a local community college, to charge the car at work where it's cheaper. "It's not a point of pain for me, but it's something I've noticed," he said.

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Yep, you guessed it, the Amherst prius driver figured out a way to get more subsidies on their transportation off the school. LOL. Excerpt 2:

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Recently there was also a little cold water thrown on the resources to make the batteries for all these EVs that will be supposedly driving (or not) the increased demand for electricity. UC Davis has released a report titled "Achieving Zero Emissions with More Mobility and Less Mining" (PDF here).

Given their Communist proclivities, you can bet your sweet bippy the gist of the thing is leading toward a life of boxes and bugs for the average citizen. But there are truly horrifying factoids to be gleaned from it that completely bolster the "WHAT THE HAY-YULL ARE YOU WHACKJOBS THINKING?!?!" case. Whilst enlightening the peasants was probably not the aim of the earnest socialists who did the research, hoisted with your own petard is a saying for a reason.

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Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won't be enough to prevent the world from overheating. So people will have to give up their cars. That's the alarming conclusion of a new report from the University of California, Davis and "a network of academics and policy experts" called the Climate and Community Project.

…Problem No. 1: Electric-vehicle batteries require loads of minerals such as lithium, cobalt and nickel, which must be extracted from the ground like fossil fuels.

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"If today's demand for EVs is projected to 2050, the lithium requirements of the US EV market alone would require triple the amount of lithium currently produced for the entire global market," the report notes.

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…The report concludes that the auto sector's "current dominant strategy," which involves replacing gasoline-powered vehicles with EVs without decreasing car ownership and use, "is likely incompatible" with climate activists' goal to keep the planet from warming by more than 1.5 degrees Celsius compared with preindustrial times. Instead, the report recommends government policies that promote walking, cycling and mass transit.

Governments, the report says, could reduce "financial subsidies for private vehicles," such as on-street and free parking. They could also impose charges on pickup trucks and SUVs (including electric ones) and build more bike lanes. Urbanites who suspect the expansion of bike lanes in their cities is intended to force people to stop driving aren't wrong.

…But what about suburbanites who need cars to get around? Reducing "car dependency" will require "densifying low-density suburbs while allowing more people to live in existing high-density urban spaces," the report says.

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Translation: Force more people to live in shoe-box apartments in cities by making suburbs denser and less appealing.

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Many chargers don't need anything specific for a charger. Tesla's basic level 2 charger gives you the option to use a standard nema dryer outlet.

Teslag said:

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Many chargers don't need anything specific for a charger. Tesla's basic level 2 charger gives you the option to use a standard nema dryer outlet.

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Problem is there are many places, like affluent NYC hoods, where we have been told not even a basic receptacle if available.

20-25% market penetration, tops. Plan accordingly.

Most people in those NYC hoods don't even own cars.

ELECTRIC SHOCK: Many electric vehicle-owners are finding that charging on the go is neither easy nor fast. https://t.co/i8rBTbdo5T pic.twitter.com/M5zKpx8hSp

— ABC News (@ABC) February 27, 2023

Duh. A lot of people know practically nothing about the cars they buy/lease, though.

nortex97 said:

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ELECTRIC SHOCK: Many electric vehicle-owners are finding that charging on the go is neither easy nor fast. https://t.co/i8rBTbdo5T pic.twitter.com/M5zKpx8hSp

— ABC News (@ABC) February 27, 2023

Duh. A lot of people know practically nothing about the cars they buy/lease, though.

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Very true. The great thing with EVs right now is that every auto company is making them, and most of the non luxury ones are making some that are very affordable. The flip side is that many people don't do their homework, or at the very minimum, read the freaking manual that tells them everything they need to know about how to operate their vehicle.

I chalk this up to a growing pain thing though. I'm sure by the time this decade is done, these things won't be much of an issue.

nortex97 said:

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ELECTRIC SHOCK: Many electric vehicle-owners are finding that charging on the go is neither easy nor fast. https://t.co/i8rBTbdo5T pic.twitter.com/M5zKpx8hSp

— ABC News (@ABC) February 27, 2023

Duh. A lot of people know practically nothing about the cars they buy/lease, though.

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Time and again you hear the mantra they're only good for short urban daily commutes. That's because you can charge them overnight (hopefully without the battery catching on fire in your garage).

But in other situations they are next to useless, something fanbois often refuse to acknowledge.

Agreed. No small coincidence there is a high incidence of 'custom plates' bragging about their EV's/carbon footprint/gas bills etc. among such owners/drivers today, to the point it's a widely derided stereotype.

The problem with your point is that most drivers only use their cars for short urban commutes. If you have two vehicles one that can get 300 miles on a charge covers almost all of your travel needs on its own. With a supercharger network a trip under 700 miles or so is a breeze.

You don't actually have to keep proving to us that you are fully on board and a true believer who feels compelled to correct any wrong-thinkers.

We know.

Really.

Can't argue facts, attack the poster

nortex97 said:

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You don't actually have to keep proving to us that you are fully on board and a true believer who feels compelled to correct any wrong-thinkers.

We know.

Really.

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Care to point out where I'm wrong? I've said numerous times that EV's are the absolute wrong choice for many people. You can simply get a better ICE fit in many instances for most buyers than you can with an EV. I can be objective, you can't.

GAC06 said:

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Can't argue facts, attack the poster

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That's his MO. It's also funny that he says we care, but he totally does not. That's why he keeps bumping this thread.