nortex97 said:

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Florida family sad to learn their 2014, 60K mile Ford Focus electric battery is…more than the car to replace, but no worries, it's also unavailable and the car is now a paperweight.

Quote:

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Siwinski had only had her Focus Electric for six months before the dashboard lit up with a warning message. The family took it to a shop, and then it stopped working altogether. Avery's grandpa Ray stepped in to try and find a solution.

"Turns out, this is a pretty common problem for this particular car," he said. "The Ford dealership had advised us that we could replace the battery. It would only cost $14,000."

That was already $3,000 more than the family paid for the car and the quote was just for the parts. Installation and labor costs would make the price of replacing the batteries even higher. If he didn't want to fix it, Ford Auto Nation in Pinellas County offered $500 to buy the car as-is, Ray claimed.

Through further research, he later found out that batteries weren't even available for the car. "So it didn't matter. They could cost twice as much, and we still couldn't get it," Ray said.

The family's message to people looking to buy EVs is, do your research. Like an engine, the battery pack is one of the most complex and important parts of an electric vehicle, making it hard to replace and expensive, too.

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But batteries are going to last 12 years and 200K miles now, right?

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I don't think anyone has been on here saying to buy a decade old Ford Fusion. The F150 Lightning looks very promising, but there haven't been 3mm sold like Tesla.

Please link a citation on this

Manhattan said:

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nortex97 said:

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Florida family sad to learn their 2014, 60K mile Ford Focus electric battery is…more than the car to replace, but no worries, it's also unavailable and the car is now a paperweight.

Quote:

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Siwinski had only had her Focus Electric for six months before the dashboard lit up with a warning message. The family took it to a shop, and then it stopped working altogether. Avery's grandpa Ray stepped in to try and find a solution.

"Turns out, this is a pretty common problem for this particular car," he said. "The Ford dealership had advised us that we could replace the battery. It would only cost $14,000."

That was already $3,000 more than the family paid for the car and the quote was just for the parts. Installation and labor costs would make the price of replacing the batteries even higher. If he didn't want to fix it, Ford Auto Nation in Pinellas County offered $500 to buy the car as-is, Ray claimed.

Through further research, he later found out that batteries weren't even available for the car. "So it didn't matter. They could cost twice as much, and we still couldn't get it," Ray said.

The family's message to people looking to buy EVs is, do your research. Like an engine, the battery pack is one of the most complex and important parts of an electric vehicle, making it hard to replace and expensive, too.

---

But batteries are going to last 12 years and 200K miles now, right?

---

I don't think anyone has been on here saying to buy a decade old Ford Fusion. The F150 Lightning looks very promising, but there haven't been 3mm sold like Tesla.

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It will cost $25K to replace that battery outside of warranty today. Ford sells millions of F-series, yes. There's no real/logical reason to think those batteries will be around/available/cheaper when the trucks hit 8 years old as this Focus did.

Much of the discussion/analyses for those of us who are not Tesla fan boys, is that these BEV's are being sold/built increasingly to be disposable a la cell phones. Some of us do care about resale values/long term use/the environment/human impacts.

neAGle96 said:

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Also, electric generation isn't clean. Even wind power is dirtier than natural gas

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Correct. The mining, transportation, refining, transmission, MRO, and disposal for wind power is way higher.

nortex97 said:

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Florida family sad to learn their 2014, 60K mile Ford Focus electric battery is…more than the car to replace, but no worries, it's also unavailable and the car is now a paperweight.

Quote:

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Siwinski had only had her Focus Electric for six months before the dashboard lit up with a warning message. The family took it to a shop, and then it stopped working altogether. Avery's grandpa Ray stepped in to try and find a solution.

"Turns out, this is a pretty common problem for this particular car," he said. "The Ford dealership had advised us that we could replace the battery. It would only cost $14,000."

That was already $3,000 more than the family paid for the car and the quote was just for the parts. Installation and labor costs would make the price of replacing the batteries even higher. If he didn't want to fix it, Ford Auto Nation in Pinellas County offered $500 to buy the car as-is, Ray claimed.

Through further research, he later found out that batteries weren't even available for the car. "So it didn't matter. They could cost twice as much, and we still couldn't get it," Ray said.

The family's message to people looking to buy EVs is, do your research. Like an engine, the battery pack is one of the most complex and important parts of an electric vehicle, making it hard to replace and expensive, too.

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But batteries are going to last 12 years and 200K miles now, right?

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You're comparing a 2014 Ford Focus EV to a Tesla with Musk and the best EV engineers in the world?


Ok.

Swing and a miss.

Of course they are the same. Now is about the time you go on one of your liberal sierra club rants.

Reading comprehension is too low to respond to any further. Just fyi:



I don't care if you are trolling, just being deliberately obtuse, or are legitimately this way. Enjoy your vehicle.

Have a blessed day.

Love the give up. Trolling the board with a random one off story of an 8 year old POS as some relevant data point and got called on it.

Teslag said:

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Love the give up. Trolling the board with a random one off story of an 8 year old POS as some relevant data point and got called on it.

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I understand the Tesla if your trips are 50-150 miles.
But a hybrid captures both flexibility and economy for passenger vehicles. I look at short haul courier services for items like medical lab samples and those folks are still using hybrids like the Prius and internal combustion vehicles in my area.

Are Tesla's what the OP was about, or the only vehicles that will be EV's in a few years or something? Don't they have like a 2.5 percent market share?

I know people who love them but I am not sure why it's something that is emotional to so many.

Small efficient diesels make the most sense for courier vehicles in my opinion. EV's make the most sense as commuter vehicles in a two vehicle household where the other vehicle is internal combustion.

UTExan said:

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Teslag said:

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Love the give up. Trolling the board with a random one off story of an 8 year old POS as some relevant data point and got called on it.

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I understand the Tesla if your trips are 50-150 miles.
But a hybrid captures both flexibility and economy for passenger vehicles. I look at short haul courier services for items like medical lab samples and those folks are still using hybrids like the Prius and internal combustion vehicles in my area.

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Not everything BEV is about Tesla's.

Some people want everything discussed to be about Tesla.

Unslicedbreadloaf said:

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Are Tesla's what the OP was about, or the only vehicles that will be EV's in a few years or something? Don't they have like a 2.5 percent market share?

I know people who love them but I am not sure why it's something that is emotional to so many.

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It's threefold. Many people on this board have ties to oil and gas. There's a misplaced idea that they are "liberal vehicles". My car can do a lot of things but I'm reasonable sure it can't vote. Finally, there's a sense that there's a government push to force them on everyone while banning ICE vehicles. This one has some merit and is worthy of discussion.

Teslag said:

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Unslicedbreadloaf said:

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Are Tesla's what the OP was about, or the only vehicles that will be EV's in a few years or something? Don't they have like a 2.5 percent market share?

I know people who love them but I am not sure why it's something that is emotional to so many.

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It's threefold. Many people on this board have ties to oil and gas. There's a misplaced idea that they are "liberal vehicles". My car can do a lot of things but I'm reasonable sure it can't vote. Finally, there's a sense that there's a government push to force them on everyone while banning ICE vehicles. This one has some merit and is worthy of discussion.

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Ok, I don't care what anyone drives, but it seems to me everyone won't/shouldn't all be buying the same type of car now, or in the distant future.

The OP was about not buying an EV (no brand was discussed).

EV's also use a lot of petroleum products in their production/charging/batteries etc. I wouldn't think people who actually work in the oil business would be real threatened by them.

Places that have gone all in on green energy/pushed electric cars the most (like Germany) have driven profits for companies like the big oil/gas mfg's, and even as more EV's are sold oil/gas prices have just skyrocketed.

Quote:

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But the good news is no one is forcing you to buy an EV.

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No, but the Federal government is forcing me to subsidize those that do! Care to address that "minor" issue here n now?

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Florida family sad to learn their 2014, 60K mile Ford Focus electric battery is…more than the car to replace, but no worries, it's also unavailable and the car is now a paperweight.

Quote:

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Siwinski had only had her Focus Electric for six months before the dashboard lit up with a warning message. The family took it to a shop, and then it stopped working altogether. Avery's grandpa Ray stepped in to try and find a solution.

"Turns out, this is a pretty common problem for this particular car," he said. "The Ford dealership had advised us that we could replace the battery. It would only cost $14,000."

That was already $3,000 more than the family paid for the car and the quote was just for the parts. Installation and labor costs would make the price of replacing the batteries even higher. If he didn't want to fix it, Ford Auto Nation in Pinellas County offered $500 to buy the car as-is, Ray claimed.

Through further research, he later found out that batteries weren't even available for the car. "So it didn't matter. They could cost twice as much, and we still couldn't get it," Ray said.

The family's message to people looking to buy EVs is, do your research. Like an engine, the battery pack is one of the most complex and important parts of an electric vehicle, making it hard to replace and expensive, too.

---

But batteries are going to last 12 years and 200K miles now, right?

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You're comparing a 2014 Ford Focus EV to a Tesla with Musk and the best EV engineers in the world?


Ok.

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Where was that poster doing this?

The only logical way to consider the long term value of EV's would be to look at...their track record overall.

8 years ago one of the 'big 3' US msg's sold a comparatively significant amount of electric focus/foci, and...now consumers apparently can't get replacement batteries, and if they could it would be $14K to have one installed, in a small/economy/compact car.

That's an interesting data point, to me. It sounds like batteries are going to get a lot more expensive over the next 10 years, inflation aside. After my 20 years of experience with the longevity/increasing promises about cell phone batteries I am more than a little skeptical.

The reason it's a terrible data point is because the 2014 EV Focus was a joke. It was never a serious entry in the EV market. It was basically a battery and motor shoved into an ICE platform and sold in select cities. Total units sold was less than 10,000. It hasn't been been made since 2018. By comparison there are about 250,000 Tesla Model 3's produced every quarter. Real world Model 3's are easily hitting the 100k mile mark now with only 2.2% battery degradation.

The Focus EV story is an indictment of a moron car buyer that didn't do any research before buying a glorified concept car.

Teslag said:

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The reason it's a terrible data point is because the 2014 EV Focus was a joke. It was never a serious entry in the EV market. It was basically a battery and motor shoved into an ICE platform and sold in select cities. Total units sold was less than 10,000. It hasn't been been made since 2018. By comparison there are about 250,000 Tesla Model 3's produced every quarter. Real world Model 3's are easily hitting the 100k mile mark now with only 2.2% battery degradation.

The Focus EV story is an indictment of a moron car buyer that didn't do any research before buying a glorified concept car.

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Of all the EV vehicles that were widely sold in 2014 (meaning they are past the mfg warranties) only the Tesla Model 3's should be considered? Wait, that would be zero.

Why pick on one incident/model? Bolt, Escape, Fusion and other significant models have also had significant recalls/shortages of replacement batteries. Further, 2013-2014 era Tesla's have also apparently had some significant/similar repair costs/arcane processes to try to get a new battery.

Some Tesla owners have expressed a concern about keeping the vehicles past 8 years as per the comment at that link (below is just an excerpt, a lot of people agree apparently);

Quote:

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Quote:

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It just seems pretty risky from a financial point of view to hold any Tesla once its battery pack warranty is over.

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I agree, but I think it's also possible to consider that risk and come out ahead.

I bought my car expecting a useful life of 8 years. That said, I could see some value in keeping it 10, but would consider those two extra years like "bonus" years. If it crapped out after 8 years and a day, that would be a bummer, but I'd basically sell it for scrap and move on having got what I expected out of the car. On the contrary, if it kept going for another 2 years without major issues, that's clearly a financial benefit.

People are naturally risk averse and thus place more value on things like warranties than would otherwise pencil out - but if you get down to cold hard numbers I think it's rarely if ever financially beneficial to dump a depreciated out of warranty car for a new one with a warranty to avoid repair costs. Of course there are lots of other reasons to want a new car - chief among them "because I want one", and I totally get that too. That new car smell….

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But it's not about Tesla, is it? What other non-Tesla EV vehicles are 'acceptable' for comparison from 2014 or before? What empirical evidence is there that new EV's sold today are going to...have batteries that are affordable to replace in 8 years/100K miles?

nortex97 said:

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Florida family sad to learn their 2014, 60K mile Ford Focus electric battery is…more than the car to replace, but no worries, it's also unavailable and the car is now a paperweight.

Quote:

---

Siwinski had only had her Focus Electric for six months before the dashboard lit up with a warning message. The family took it to a shop, and then it stopped working altogether. Avery's grandpa Ray stepped in to try and find a solution.

"Turns out, this is a pretty common problem for this particular car," he said. "The Ford dealership had advised us that we could replace the battery. It would only cost $14,000."

That was already $3,000 more than the family paid for the car and the quote was just for the parts. Installation and labor costs would make the price of replacing the batteries even higher. If he didn't want to fix it, Ford Auto Nation in Pinellas County offered $500 to buy the car as-is, Ray claimed.

Through further research, he later found out that batteries weren't even available for the car. "So it didn't matter. They could cost twice as much, and we still couldn't get it," Ray said.

The family's message to people looking to buy EVs is, do your research. Like an engine, the battery pack is one of the most complex and important parts of an electric vehicle, making it hard to replace and expensive, too.

---

But batteries are going to last 12 years and 200K miles now, right?

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You clearly haven't been paying attention. They are going to last 300k to 500k miles.

They clearly missed out on some automotive purchase decision advice from an internet user, though I am not sure if he/she advises as to used vehicles or not, preferring only to deal with similarly wealthy/sophisticated people as himself.

"Why buy a used car of any kind? The Model S Plaid/X/Y/3 is perfect for you!"

torrid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Florida family sad to learn their 2014, 60K mile Ford Focus electric battery is…more than the car to replace, but no worries, it's also unavailable and the car is now a paperweight.

Quote:

---

Siwinski had only had her Focus Electric for six months before the dashboard lit up with a warning message. The family took it to a shop, and then it stopped working altogether. Avery's grandpa Ray stepped in to try and find a solution.

"Turns out, this is a pretty common problem for this particular car," he said. "The Ford dealership had advised us that we could replace the battery. It would only cost $14,000."

That was already $3,000 more than the family paid for the car and the quote was just for the parts. Installation and labor costs would make the price of replacing the batteries even higher. If he didn't want to fix it, Ford Auto Nation in Pinellas County offered $500 to buy the car as-is, Ray claimed.

Through further research, he later found out that batteries weren't even available for the car. "So it didn't matter. They could cost twice as much, and we still couldn't get it," Ray said.

The family's message to people looking to buy EVs is, do your research. Like an engine, the battery pack is one of the most complex and important parts of an electric vehicle, making it hard to replace and expensive, too.

---

But batteries are going to last 12 years and 200K miles now, right?

---

You clearly haven't been paying attention. They are going to last 300k to 500k miles.

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Yep.

Since 2014 Tesla has shifted to a new battery chemistry that is far better at degradation than older packs. Real world 2016 Model X's with the new chemistry have made it to 300,000 miles before battery replacement. That's more than acceptable for most every driver.

Teslag said:

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Since 2014 Tesla has shifted to a new battery chemistry that is far better at degradation than older packs. Real world 2016 Model X's with the new chemistry have made it to 300,000 miles before battery replacement. That's more than acceptable for most every driver.

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So EV's have been around for...longer than ICE vehicles, and have a skyrocketing demand forecast for their adoption/required materiels, but we should only look to 2016 or newer Tesla's when considering long term service costs/challenges finding a replacement battery/residual values, and should only shop for 'new chemistry' Tesla's?

You serious, Clark? (/Chevy Chase Vacation joke)

It depends. If you want to compare apples to oranges then you are free to do so. Current designed are lasting to 300k miles. That's notable and worthy to current discussion. Not 10,000 unit concept cars.

Teslag said:

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It depends. If you want to compare apples to oranges then you are free to do so. Current designed are lasting to 300k miles. That's notable and worthy to current discussion. Not 10,000 unit concept cars.

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The last two years of the Oldsmobile Aurora were also the finest for the brand, imho, but I don't think it's a great case for buying an Olds today.

Throwing out your specific support/bias for Tesla's newest battery chemistry, battery cars are well over a century old. Many, many big companies and countries have invested in technology to add/create a competitive advantage, not limited to LG, Samsung, GM, Korea, Japan, Panasonic, China, etc. This to me means a LOT of very, very good engineers have worked on it.

Ignoring all of that (and more)...to baldly assert that Tesla's from 2016 on are the only comparisons that matter is just silly, to me at least.

Manhattan said:

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nortex97 said:

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Florida family sad to learn their 2014, 60K mile Ford Focus electric battery is…more than the car to replace, but no worries, it's also unavailable and the car is now a paperweight.

Quote:

---

Siwinski had only had her Focus Electric for six months before the dashboard lit up with a warning message. The family took it to a shop, and then it stopped working altogether. Avery's grandpa Ray stepped in to try and find a solution.

"Turns out, this is a pretty common problem for this particular car," he said. "The Ford dealership had advised us that we could replace the battery. It would only cost $14,000."

That was already $3,000 more than the family paid for the car and the quote was just for the parts. Installation and labor costs would make the price of replacing the batteries even higher. If he didn't want to fix it, Ford Auto Nation in Pinellas County offered $500 to buy the car as-is, Ray claimed.

Through further research, he later found out that batteries weren't even available for the car. "So it didn't matter. They could cost twice as much, and we still couldn't get it," Ray said.

The family's message to people looking to buy EVs is, do your research. Like an engine, the battery pack is one of the most complex and important parts of an electric vehicle, making it hard to replace and expensive, too.

---

But batteries are going to last 12 years and 200K miles now, right?

---

I don't think anyone has been on here saying to buy a decade old Ford Fusion. The F150 Lightning looks very promising, but there haven't been 3mm sold like Tesla.

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Bruh, you fail the internet again. You're off about 1.2 million.

https://googlethatforyou.com/?q=how%20many%20teslas%20sold

In honor of EV's, I ordered my 2023 z06 last week. Cant wait to take it to COTA.

Only way to improve range on a Tesla.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Tesla+V8+Swap&&view=detail&mid=1A00805F334405637B0F1A00805F334405637B0F&&FORM=VDRVRV

Why LS swap it is a racers first question.

I cancelled my C8 LT2 for an S Plaid. Different sides of coin I suppose.

You bought a corvette to stick it to EV's? Get 'em

Teslag said:

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I cancelled my C8 LT2 for an S Plaid. Different sides of coin I suppose.

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Did you mean 2LT? LT2 is the base power train in the C8.

LT6 in the 2023 z06 is a 700 hp flat plain crank 5.5 which is showing to be a track monster. If i wanted and LT car I would just get a Camaro and drop a heads and cam package on it.

I have no interest in what the Plaid is. Completely defeats the purpose of an EV.

I really can't believe this thread is still going. Battery technology was always my issue.

What's the purpose of an EV?